Plastic in or out? Does it really matter at all?
The open end of the plastic in to the shank and yeah it does help they use to be all steel but they went to plastic probably twenty years ago. Some criticize it but if the plastic gets loose you probably need new shanks.
I've always placed the plastic cup into the recess in the shank and drive the pin from the opposite side, that way driving the pin doesn't damage or distort the plastic cup.
Should've done a poll I guess. Lol. I've always done it like Willie, felt that the pin only having to slip through the retainer for an inch was better than 3. But, two replies and both options.....
I've always done the same as Willie.
Fitting them that way places over three fourths of the pin in the hole for alignment. And a trick I used for installing the pins in the center is the jaw from a Rigid pipe wrench, 36" size wrench jaw or bigger. the threaded part of the jaw will lie on top of the bucket tooth, usually spans two teeth, to keep it parallel to the tooth, then the teeth of the jaw against the end of the pin. Now whack the snot out of the tip of the jaw for a home run, knocks the pin right in. I wish I had done a video of this method.
Plastic out. Some have This Side Out stamped on the plastic.
Do you know the reasoning why that is the recommended way?
Like Cmark I've seen a lot of locks marked "This side out" on the plastic part (pic #2) Not sure about this particular tooth/lock combination but doesn't the pin pass freely through the hole in the plastic cap anyway..? If that is that case then what is surely the objective is to have the metal lock hard up against the steel of the adaptor while you're bashing the snot out of the pin to install it. That way you have metal-on-metal contact to spring the lock open slightly to allow the pin to go through it, then for it to snap shut afterwards and close on the narrowed part of the pin diameter. Doing it with the lock the other way round there would IMO be a chance of distorting the plastic due to it being squashed between the metal of the lock and the adapter.
I freely admit I may be installing them "incorrectly" as it were. What I'm proposing, if you place the plastic cup into the recess in the adaptor, then fit the tooth, then lastly you insert the pin from the opposite side with the locking groove end of the pin entering the hole first. In this position there's a substantial amount of pin already in the hole which helps steady the pin for driving into the lock. The hard metal lock ring will now be bearing against the inside of the tooth, no distortion or damage to plastic cup, drive it home. Again, may be incorrect, but it retains the pin nonetheless and is far easier to perform the install.
And explained in that fashion it makes perfect sense. TBH I'd do it the same way. I was more thinking about driving the whole pin through from the side with the lock, not the other way around...........
Agreed it seems more intuitive to install the lock with plastic in and, yes, if you install it plastic out and then put the pin in from the long side, it will smash the crap out of the plastic. So I install them plastic side out and drive the pin in from the lock side, awkward as it may be sometimes. Anyway, J series are yesterday's tech. Anyone have any tips for dealing with K series or Capsure?
I still prefer J Series over K Series. Capsure is the mutts nuts as far as I'm concerned.
K series i use a air chipper to shake the retainer till its loose. Then they pop out just fine... if thay dont I have just cut the lip off the tooth then reinstalled it up side down. Some times the cutting wrecks the retainer. Never been close to a Capsure system. Looks like way more fun when it -20F and someone is waiting on you.
Likewise. For K series use a needle scaler to chip out the dirt. If the retainer binds then a squirt of oil works wonders. Capsure are great once you can get the retainers to turn, but I find that the pins will then usually be stuck in the adapters and you're back to the same problems as with the J series, but on a bigger scale.
The thing is, there were/are soooooo many buckets with J series teeth that wrench benders will prolly be dealing with them for the next 50 years. When I first worked with them I followed the directions "this side out" (the plastic) and tried driving the pin from the lock ring side. It didn't take long for me to utter certain swear words and say "screw this!". That's when I reversed the process and found it far easier to do the install and everything still worked just fine. I just wish I had made a video of using a pipe wrench jaw to drive the pin home.
Agreed. There must be a gazillion buckets out there with J series adaptors. What does anyone think of Esco Helilok and Vertalok? And has anyone ever had the unique experience of Kverneland's bolt on teeth?
Only Esco teeth I've worked with are the Super V, which are freaking awesome to work with and freaking expensive to work with as well. Haven't used the Cat K series yet, looking over product info looks like they work somewhat similar to MTG Kingmet teeth. Those are good teeth and fairly easy to install, but like Esco Super V, still a bit spendy. Absolute worst I've worked with is Hensley 385 vertical pin with center locking ring. Once that locking ring snaps home you practically need a 10,000 lb hyd breaker to knock it out to replace a tooth. Easiest tooth system I've worked with are the Hensley XS and it's sibling Komatsu Kmax. Pin simply slips in the retainer hole and you turn a locking tab a quarter turn with a 10mm socket.
I haven’t done many teeth in buckets....augers and core barrels....well that’s another story. I’ve broken 1” impacts on home made pullers. We run three different bits or teeth in them. It’s amazing what they’ll cut and amazing how bad they’ll get stuck in the pockets!!
Any of you ever worked with Smartfit teeth? I'm getting close to needing to change mine. Looks like a decent system, IF they come out as good as they do on YouTube.
I admit I know nothing about Esco Smarfit, but are we sure that's Esco? That's exactly, right down to patent design of how Hensley XS and sibling Komatsu Kmax work. That locking pin looks exactly like XS and Kmax.
Ya, sorry. I'm not sure why I thought they were Esco. A little more digging and it appears they are Case design. Edit: I edited my previous post, removed the Esco part. It appears they were designed by CNH right here in ND. I'll be sure to update when I get around to changing them. They seem tough as hell. I've dug hundreds of big rocks for farmers, the teeth are still tight. They've lasted quite a while, but that's because most of the work that bucket does is tree work, and wood doesn't do a whole lot to a steel tooth.
I freely admit that I don't know the parent source of that tooth/retainer design, I'm only saying I'm familiar with Hensley XS and Komatsu Kmax. Both are a Hensley design, Hensley makes the Kmax tooth for Komatsu, they slightly changed the hole/pin profile so it's not interchangeable with XS teeth components, but still the same concept. Viewing the video you posted, I'm thinking Case worked out a similar (proprietary) deal with Hensley to make a tooth/retainer system for them the way Kommie did with Hensley for Kmax. The lock pin looks exactly like XS and Kmax.
That might make sense. The Case buckets we had for our old equipment from the 80s and early 90s, and the factory buckets for our 9030B made by Central Fab had Hensley teeth.
Our case cx60c has the 'smartfit' teeth on it's 2 foot bucket to which I welded a smooth edge to the two outer teeth, changing them is easy have switched the edge on/off over a dozen times in the last few months... never a problem just pick the clay out so you can get a socket on the head and you're all set. The guys at case told us the pins are only supposed to last 6 times of on/off so bought extras but am still using the originals so far.