Picked up a IHS S1954 juice brakes rated 28k lbs registered at 24k lbs going to sometimes have a cab over camper on it. Questions are, if I hook a trailer up to it such as to pull my personal tractor do I need a CDL for it as the tractor weighs about 10k lbs, do I have to put "Not For Hire" on it and lastly if I have the cab over camper on it and decide to pull a trailer with tractor on it or Uhaul cargo trailer will it need a CDL? I have nothing against getting a CDL, just trying to get a CDL in this state requires you attend a school to get one when I can self learn just I have done welding, turning wrenches and etc etc... This is where it gets confusing as are they going by the sticker on the door or the registered GVWR? https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdlrequired.html
In Cal they use door post sticker rating's GVW. We can go to DMV and register as 26 GVW (25,999) and they issue a new door post sticker @ 25,999lbs GVW. Pulling Trailer; any trailer over 10,000lbs GVW requires Class A license. Example 26GVW Penske truck and U-haul type trailer @ 9,999lbs; combined GVWR 35,999lbs <non CDL class 3 okay. Pulling your tractor @ 9,900lbs plus trailer's weight will require Class A license. If your tractor is for commercial hire; req's CDL. Confusing, LOL
Last I heard, it was the trailer's weight RATING. So if you have a trailer with a plate of 10,000 or more, regardless if it is hauling a pallet of bubble wrap, it is CDL. I say just get the CDL, it only hurts once and it can help you in all different ways.
RV trailer/self contained and enclosed get a pass, non-CDL Agree CDL; OP's truck's rating and pulling 10K plus trailer.
Well there is a stickler in all of this, I have property in Montana I can get a DL there and from what I see under exemptions it wouldn't be required https://cdl-course.com/faq-mt.html See I have no problem in obtaining one just obtaining one could hurt my VA disability pension possibly and that's why I'm trying to avoid a CDL especially having to go through classes. Main reason I got this truck is to haul a 5th wheel though occasionally I need to haul building supplies to work on whatever project I am building at my home as I have to keep myself busy or I will go nuts worse than I am. Going to move to MT in few months and didn't want to get in trouble while moving stuff around.
Amazing...just get cdl...anything over 26000lbs combined should have cdl...always amazed at how everyone tries to get around things that are designed to save people...overloaded equipment....under insured...smallest suspension and brakes....and my fav complaining about the DOT...Just keep everything legal...it all works out
Really? My F-800 service truck has a door post sticker of 32K, so I have to have a CDL to drive the damn thing. It weighs in at 20K. That's kinda stupid. Not everybody that wants to move a tractor occasionally is trying to "get around things". It's getting crazier when a good sized car trailer behind a dually pickup requires a CDL. This stuff is going too far.
The occasional tractor guy ...not saying this person does....usually has substandard equipment because the occasional maintainance is welll.
Do you realize the cost of maintaining a CDL in WA. state? About $500 a year. including whatever the medical examiner sticks you with. It's a racket, we have non resident drivers that can buy their ticket, but us residents get bent over to drive a stupid six wheeler. And your "substandard equipment" quote is garbage in most cases. The "hobby" guys that are the most dangerous seem to get the pass from the DOT guys.
In Minnesota you can get a medical card exemption on your indorsement and maintain a CDL or Class A, they are one and the same here. With the exemption you can not drive for hire any commercial vehicles that require a CDL. I have the exemption on my license and to date I have not been bothered hauling my antique equipment to shows or new to me toys home. I do have 'Not for Hire' signs on both my tractor and trailer.
It does go by the GVW. If used commercially it drops to 10,000 lbs if you cross a state line. A new 3/4 ton truck with a small air compressor being towed or even a small 5 X 8 ft trailer is a CDL required vehicle. The company I retired from got popped recently with just that. If you charge for work out of your mechanic truck you will need a CDL with a medical card.
I have felt your pain RZ. Trying to skate by in Washington without one as a casual driver or an advanced backyarder or just a test drive would be a poor idea. Having labored under the watchful eye of the Washington State Patrol, I say without fear of contradiction that those officers can and will appear anywhere anytime. They used to work a forty hour week, any 40 they choose. Like game wardens They seemingly materialize out of thin air at times when you really were hoping to be invisible. I collected a overweight ticket once for being off route (1 mile) with a 240,000 that would have purchased a 2 bedroom house in the suburbs. It was a righteous ticket. Didn't make me feel any better about it. They are good at their job and will get around to you sooner or later. A scale house in Washington is anywhere on a state rd. God help you if anything happened to cause injury or death and you were operating without a CDL. The positive thing about their labors is that when you cross bridge in Washington you can pretty much trust that it will not fall down while your on it. That can not be said in the east where somebody thought 77,000 pounds in 26 feet on 4 axles (if the driver puts the drop down) or 5 axle dump trailers in 120 range were a good idea. If you showed up in Washington with 38 to 40 ton on a Dump trailer or 24 ton in a dump truck, (Tongue in cheek>) they would probably arrest you, and throw your equipment in a shredder so you never be so foolish again. However most of Washington's infrastructure is not all beat to death. I work in bridge rehab and or replacement and I will take a few images of things I see as they come along. If your in Washington and need a CDL... get it. It will probably be cheaper in the long run. Happy Motoring
In MO IF you are hauling your own Farm Equipment you do not need a CDL, have three guys been spot checked at scales with Class A equipment and were NOT licensed Class A, got a pass as Agriculture Equipment but Did have FARM tags on the trucks. I have Beyond Local 24,000 on my Ford, drag a gooseneck behind it at 13,000 rate and almost 9800 rate truck, was cautioned should have DOT inspection decals by more than one Brown Shirt but never a ticket and always passed muster by them. I would keep the Camper on the truck, license the b*****d RV and then drag the trailer, not a damn thing they can do if all your own stuff at that point.
I have a friend who has a service truck and what amounts to a shop trailer. He drives out of state from time to time and awhile back he told me about getting a ticket in Oregon. He has a class B license and the Oregon police told him that since he was pulling a trailer behind a commercial truck he had to have a class A license. He asked for them to cite the law that requires that and they pulled out a book, opened it to a book marked page and stuck it under his nose and offered to read it to him if he couldn't read. Apparently any combination of commercial truck and trailer that a grosses over 26,000 pounds, in Oregon at least, requires a class A license. I guess he paid the ticket but he said he won't drive into Oregon any more with the trailer. I started out when to get a license you only had to have an employer vouch for you and you took a test. Grandfathered that to Class A when the feds changed the laws and said you couldn't have multiple driver's licenses in multiple states. I didn't think about following the laws too close and didn't catch the whole endorsement thing so I don't have the air brake endorsement. I checked into getting it a few years back and was told I'd have to go to a truck driving school and do their testing to get it. Minimum charge was $2,500 so I just keep things the way they are now. I might drop the class B when I have to renew the license again.
As it seems from the overwhelming response in here which I greatly appreciate is, get my a$s out of Washington state and head to Montana soon as possible. Going to drive my car out there claim residency and register the truck in Montana since they don't want to rape the common man out there. Just cause one has CDL doesn't make them better driver than one without one. That I can assure you as I drove many vehicles we stole in Iraq and other unnamed countries to get us infantry around and it wasn't some Toyota Corona or an Opel, more of Scania, Kamazes and list goes on. I turn my wrenches on my vehicles too and know more than just a driver does on these rigs as from years of experience they won't teach in CDL school. If CDL drivers are supposed to be better than non CDL then why do so many Swift drivers get ragged on so much...
It's not that CDL drivers are any different than regular drivers. It is about the money. Either way the state gets your money. With a CDL they get it in smaller, more predictable installments. Without one, they get it in large amounts at times that may be unpredictable to you. (When you meet the wrong Smokey on the road.)
Calif does not require CDL drivers' school (yet). A-B CDL $76 plus behind the wheel drivers' skills test $35 and $84 DOT med exam // Total $195.00. Removing an air brake or automatic transmission restriction (requires a driving test) $76.00 + $35.00 26GVW with air brakes does not require 'air brake endorsement'. Class C okay 1st question asked by CHP, 'which class of license are you required to drive this vehicle'? Next, 'are getting a safety inspection sticker today'? I always answer, 'probably not'....Overall not a big deal considering 30+million residents that can huff and puff wacky weed.
Washington State no longer administers a commercial driving test so only way is the schools. They cut out all those state employees which wasn't such a bad thing. Still require a medical exam every two years if driving out of state. All air brakes require an endorsement. Last physical cost me $110 for a DOT physical and only certain doctors can do it now. Apparently California is stealing their money through the pollution regulations and hasn't picked up on driver licensing so far. I'm with Spud_Monkey on moving but I have to stay here till my mother passes on.
My physical was close to that here, $78 to my insurance and $20 for me, then the HAZMAT test I paid for with the background check, and then the license itself, have around $175 in so far. Still bites my butt that RVrs can have a 40+ foot self contained diesel pusher with air brakes, a hitch on the back dragging a 20-40' boat or another RV trailer or a tri axle car hauler or a boat AND a car in double arrangement and NOT have a CDL because licensed RV.
Just found cheaper @ $50.00 TEAM CME certified medical examiners. They even have smartphone apps to locate the nearest doctor; maybe in your area. http://www.teamcme.com/dot-physical...y/california/corona/ghods-chiropractic-inc-3/ Made Calif DMV appointment this morning, soonest available Feb 12th 2019. So I'll be driving with expired DL for couple months. I print the appointment and email for law enforcement officer reference. DMV minimum time with appointment is 45 minutes. Fed ID requirements change has really created a traffic jam for appointments. Looked at property in Illwaco, Wa. Building codes are similar to Calif, street weight restrictions, no gain. Closet Super Market across the Columbia in Astora, Or. Hard to escape the masses...
If you like salmon fishing and sea lions and black bears then Illwaco is the place to be. It's a busy place in the summer as the Long Beach peninsula was just up the road. No toll on the bridge anymore to Astoria and that is a nice place.
Quite honestly I am tired of the rain, I can't stay indoors and as for building codes there is none at my property in Montana. Currently renting in Washington state up in Port Angeles beautiful place, lots of rain and mean people that can't drive. My property in MT is offgrid so going to take bit to get it up and going but I plan on sticking my cab over camper on the truck to live in after I get everything moved. Main reason I also got this truck is I have a 5th wheel I personally built out 40' shipping container (not completed yet), any class 4 or 5 truck can haul it but can't stop it in emergency on these mountain ranges in this great country. Estimated 16 to 18k lbs when completed.
Spud_Monkey, Sounds like you'll busy setting up home in MT. Off-grid can get old, just like rain. No building codes sounds great, still a bit wild north west in this country. Try to stay in contact with other humans, social isolation is a health hazard also; were designed as small heard social animals, even putting up with mean, crazy types to a certain degree. Establish your' boundaries. Thanks John, I was in Illwaco last week of Sept property shopping. G-father William Snow Lawrence was the Keeper of Lifesaving Station Klipsan Beach on the Long Beach Peninsula Jan 4th 1895 to Oct 9, 1897. G-mother Marry was born in Illwaco and two younger sisters. William's 'services dispensed with' per history; actually Mary and her youngest sister fell overboard into the icy water . Lil sis died and Mary's ear drums were broken along with damaged vocal chords. Family move to Seattle, GF worked on steamer Seattle while applying for his Captains license. GF was successful becoming a millionaire (gold rush), divorced and family squabbling over inherited wealth until my G-aunt died. Mary's message from my tiny-tot days was, 'don't ever trust people if money is involved, especially family'...LOL Property is off 101 with river front, neighbors growing wacky weed and vacant land on the opposite side. Maybe buy out the neighbors and purchase the vacant land for a long-ish weekend get away place. i don't believe I would adjust to gray skies, foggy days and rain, rain over the long term. Sunshine on my shoulders is okay. Cheers
I had a Topkick toter for awhile and did almost exactly what you are talking about- pulled a 5th wheel & fabbed up a mount for the camper to slide on. Worked really well. The thing I remember about it was it was registered non-commercial but there was no one that would insure it as an RV only a commercial policy. I'm in the process of relocating out of WA also- got it narrowed down to 3 counties in Idaho with little or no regs. First thing I do when I find an interesting property is look at the county P&Z. My son is up there in PA.....well, last I heard he was. If you have seen a white Manx buggy running around town it was mine once.
I know a guy that has a mid 90's peterbilt with a huge sleeper- 3406 etc. etc, basic full semi, and has it registered as a RV. Knowing him- he probably doesn't worry about insurance.
Too busy watching to make sure no one hits me or pulls out in front of me to notice many out the ordinary vehicles. I too look at the P&Z also the taxes and list goes on such as weather and demographics. Going off grid might get old for some but I have master plan to build one of these https://www.earthshipglobal.com/ which will help with being off grid. Been researching them for years. If I knew I was going to be this restricted in driving here in Washington state and in other forms I would of never moved here. What can I say I screwed up moving here from Texas...
One of my questions is, do I need to put "Not For Hire" on the truck?
Oof, that's some culture shock there. I can't remember if there was anything on my Topkick but I don't think so. Private carrier/not for hire is still under FMCSA if you are a business- I just changed my MCS-150 over from "Authorized For Hire" to "Private Property" for the service truck. The way I look at it (my opinion ) if you aren't rolling through the scales where they can read it LE/CVE probably isn't going to see the little letters (or care) if they are going to pull you over anyway, then the important thing is that the vehicle class truck/trailer isn't 'COM' on the registration and it's registered & insured in your name, not a business. I have a little knowledge here as I had a steer tire blow out on the Topkick on I-5 (thank goodness for the biger rig, got it whoa'd-up with the whole family in it) and a car behind swerved to avoid the alligator and then rolled in the median. I spent 3 years in court with their insurance claiming I was using it in a "commercial capacity" and going after my business insurance even though everything was right and I had the camper on and a trailer with a bunch of ATV's on the trailer and no citations from LE on the accident. I came out OK in the end, but believe me having to check the box "are you involved in any on-going litigation?" didn't help with business/personal finances any. Sorry that was so long.
Contact me when you get ready to do the off grid thing, that is what I do for a living right now. Be on the lookout for a good little 3 cylinder diesel generator if your mechanic travels might help with that, if you want to end up with a mounted-in-a-shed type genset. Sometimes you can score a good deal if you know where to look. Light towers, etc.
Would reefer engines work? I don't have one and don't need one, just curious. How hard is it to come up with the generator to fit a random engine- bellhousing, governor, controls etc? Don't get to talking all your electrical goofy stuff either!
I have a MEP-803A genset little much for my needs unless I need to weld but I do have a 10 hp diesel engine I will one day mate up to a generator head one day. Going to start off small (cab over camper) and work my way into my 5th wheel I built or building then onto my Earthship, one day at a time... Soon as I leave this area and get something going I will buy 2 or 3 solar panels a month and a battery till I build big enough system. Rain water catchment off the roof of the 5th wheel when I get it out there, also my property has 3 ravines I will dam one of them off for water also. Nearest neighbor is 2 miles away, it's on dead end road, nearest city is 30 miles away and I'm butted up against 600 plus acres of BLM land. Will use the other two ravines for building underground and bury whatever when done.
You either A use bellhousings you fabricate yourself or B you use lovejoy couplings that have somewhat of bellhousing that will bolt up to most small engines or C pull out the calculator and run a pulley system. It's not hard at all...
Reefer engines are the same engines we use on generators from what I have seen but the reefer engines have a bulbous oil sump added. We should get that sump on generator engines what with how often some customers [don't] change their oil. Bell housings are hit or miss. I would not use a Lovejoy or belt drive when good SAE drives are available or even complete generators. Besides that, getting a governor that is stiff enough to maintain 1800 RPM under all load conditions may be variable.
MEP-803s are a strange bird with all the crazy electronics and the strange Lister engine getting hard to support and was never that great to begin with. I would not buy solar panels onesy-twosie because they all need to be more or less identical, at least 9-12 panel groups, and mfrs. are always changing the specs by a few percent which includes the dimensions so you might get hung out with an odd lot if you do it this way. Batteries, get "industrial" or fork lift [steel tray] batteries in one big lump, move with a machine only, one string, the plastic ones that a man can move around are complete toys.
Around here- you put the "Not for hire" in lieu of a ICC-MC number. As in Motor Carrier. Everyone is supposed to have a DOT number. Even the pest control Co with their pickups often show a DOT number.
BV, Do you do much solar panel being in sunny CA? Seems like the perfect place. Darryl
I was lucky and got my endorsement 40+ yrs ago when my girlfriend‘s dad signed the road test portion for me. While it doesn’t hurt like paying for school, it hurts ($$) every renewal- CDL, m/c, etc. Then, there’s annual fee for random testing consortium. Darryl
I believe if I put a US Veteran license plate on the back from this state that will help if I get pulled over. If I could get the truck down to 12,500 or 12,000 lbs in empty weight recertify the weight for the title and registration I actually can put DV license plate on it and not pay any registration fees. Which are about $38 month right now.
Got any links to these industrial or forklift batters you use?
http://hupsolarone.com/ There must be a dealer near you. Also you could try a fork lift dealer. Papé here has a battery line they sell to off-gridders.
Cal utilities won't allow net metering and max 1,000watts or historical max usage, last time checked. In other words if your system puts excess electricity into the grid system you'll be charged a fee. Smart Meters; going to save money. Nope, electric fees increased even with reduced usage. Solar Panels, 25-28% efficiency @ max sun exposure. Dust-dirt accumulation reduces efficiency so you'll have panel maintenance like regular washing as an added expense. Scam advertising free solar system; secretary ended up with a lien against her home, rotting roof from the solar panel installation etc. Look before you leap, LOL Fortlift Batteries, not cheap, small Cat lifts $5-7K for new batteries.
As worked Electrical Generation so understand fully the failings of both Photovoltaic and Wind power generation systems. Hydro is hard to beat but has to kill river ecosystems to get it. PV cells lose efficacy over a calculated 20-30 year lifespan, they will NOT warranty degrading voltage or amperage delivery as is noted in the eventual degradation of the cell matrix in all the paperwork. CAN receive a few watts off a array as Sun rises but not until fully availed to the cell array will that array delivery quantifiable power, that lasts around 3.5-4 hours during Summer Solstice. Theses are NOT stand alone systems, they require Grid Connectivity to generate power so as far as power outages the cell system just shuts down, comes down to grid and line protection where phase angle CANNOT be off or damage on power realign will occur, the systems HAVE to see Grid frequency. Wind generators are another anomaly, so long as cloudy day or slight nasty weather or even after dark they produce great consistent energy, Clear Day, Very Sunny and Hot as in KS and you will see the turbines auto secure, common issue, Solar Heating Ground Effect Turbulence or heat caused wind cross currents due to heat rise from heated ground. Frequency and stability of delivered voltage vary too widely the systems go into protection shut downs and stay there until reset by technicians, do so too early and can wipe out a turbine speed/direction control system. Wind at night COULD if we had sufficient and efficient storage systems(Batteries) be stored for use until Solar came on grid and ONLY IF the Sunlight was at vantage enough could any overage be stored to assist Wind generation. As they are the two systems are Supplementary Systems or Additional Grid Stabilizing power supplies ONLY.
All these concerns are valid. We work with off grid people everywhere and there are solutions developed for all these problems. Batteries, look at cost / life span. The plastic batteries that look like overgrown truck batteries seem to last about 4 years. The fork lift "style" batteries we have been installing for about 15 years and all still going strong except where the owners have destroyed them. 15 years is a little outside expected life span but we'll take what we can get. Solar panels need to be on racks on the ground. Roof mount is for government subsidy scam systems, not for anybody who actually relies on them. NEC has a whole bunch of extra requirements if on a house. We discourage people from washing panels with well water. Dust is a small factor but rain takes care of it. In summer when dusty, you can't use all the power a solar array oversized for bad winter conditions gives you anyway.
All very interesting information. I’d always thought would be nice to outfit a 20’ conex with panels on top and trim interior for bed/kitchen/couch and put off the grid. I recall National Geographic, about 15 years ago, had an article showing the smokestack of a coal-fired plant in background of prominent Utah butte. The article talked “visual pollution” ruining natural beauty. The greens tout wind power. However, rolling through Ellensburg and Vantage, while the large wind turbines are mesmerizing, I think I prefer the rolling hills bare. That, and they get bird strikes. Seems every system has drawbacks. Hydro is tried and true.
Keep everything RV low voltage and use propane. Biggest issue then is washing machine/dyer. Well water, electric motor-pump. Question of how much luxury a person is willing to give up.
Can agree can get the Off Grid setups that do function well, even have phase controls to align phase and resync if grid connected, have a few neighbors even here in MO using them but the expense is GINORMOUS to start for batteries, inverter, storage area and upkeep of the batteries & control switches, systems have to be checked and recertified for grid connections all takes $$$. Payback If Ever takes a FOREVER amount of time. Even at that most of these have some form of fossil backup to cope with outages or system maintenance or poor system operations, takes away the value of the stand alone. Totally agree as to the uselessness of roof mounts, that is all show and blow, need to be rack mounted down where maintenance can be readily afforded and NOT damaging a structure roof. Close by neighbor has a 16x30 array on a structure behind his home tied in with the REA, special scope mainline disconnect so does not feed down a dead line and hurt a lineman or a downed wire to hurt a passerby, they are charged regular watt hour rate close to $.16 while only receiving wholesale rate for energy provided back at $.08. He has regrets as will not payback before he dies or has to move out now being 72 and is NOT a standalone system. Ex Co-worker put up a whole house wind turbine, in his Wife's Name so as to not be in conflict of interest, again not a stand alone, 60' tower 15' span on blading automatic speed control for frequency management and self protection in high winds, he averaged around 40% return of power price, figured 18 years ROI. Problem was at 20 the turbine would be slated to overhaul or replace, would have shorter ROI on that but at his age doubted would recover it.
Still have photos hard and in my minds eye of those, waves of turbines all along I90, can also see those along US 50 in Central KS standing mute in dead heat of summer. Bonneville was a good project, Coulee was spectacular in its size. We have Bagnall Dam here not a huge generation system at only160mW capable at full steam on a Good day yet still operating.
I don't know anything about grid-tied sell-back systems but off grid I figure a generator costs about $.60 when you buy the generator, buy fuel, change oil, pay me for repairs several times a year, rebuild/replace when it wears out, etc. Off grid power has to be about the same, degradation of panels, degradation of batteries generally about $1000/yr (that is close to my whole commercial power bill) plus the up front cost for a shed to put it all in, inverters, charge controllers, etc. but unlike a fossil fuel genset it works economically to power your alarm clock and refrigerator at 3am. It is economical for people who live way out in the sticks who can't get commercial power and who have the means to pay for it to be done right up front and a few professional visits. But piecemeal DIY systems can be pretty frustrating to people and then they call us to come figure it out when they can't and it is like coming to fix a tractor that someone pieced together out of things they find laying around, where do you start.
I am not to the Tiny House stage just yet but the thought of Lo Voltage equipment and less energy demand is gaining ground with myself. Kind of hard to run a mill or lathe on 12/18/24 v but can run rechargeable drills and such from that. All too many are pushing the piecemeal crap, trying for that one magic combination to make them a world power in home supply I just do not see it coming on too readily. Baseload power for a thriving population is a necessity, off grid does fine for those that can do without or have things made instead of making their own. Crude can be effective but I am more prevalent to comfort at this age.
My main reasons wanting to go off grid is, (1) Don't have to worry about rising costs and depending on the system "self sufficient". (2) It's cost imperative to run power to the property I have as it would cost more than the land. (3) Even if the cost dropped I could afford to run it then soon as that is installed people will flock in. Will it break even or will I come out on top probably so probably not, money is not the issue my serenity for as long as I can hold it there is my main prerogative. Thanks for the information on the batteries as I would of bought those Trojan ones now I know forklift batteries are way to go. As for going with low voltage the drawback is you better run some big wires, it's why I plan on putting my batteries and system in shipping container bury it to help maintain temperature with solar panels on top and around and then run the A/C to the whatever I need it for i.e. home, work shop and such...
Same thing now, for inverter hardware buy Schneider XW only (not SW), or SMA Sunny Island. I am on the fence about Outback, they have gone all corporate lately and seem to not "get it" any more. Magnum looks like overgrown RV hardware, have not been impressed, but they are not awful, either. Everything else seems like toys. For charge controllers, Midnite, Schneider if you have a Schneider inverter, Outback still pretty good, Magnum not impressed at all. 48 volts only, 24 volts is getting very obsolete. I don't know anyone running battery voltage lights any more, even the most shoestring hillbillies out there have AC everything these days. Inverters are very efficient and the cost of installing/maintaining 2 different voltage power systems would outstrip any energy savings. Plus where do you find 48 volt or even 24 volt hardware. 12 volt was common back in the day but almost nobody has 12 volt batteries any more. I can think of 2 or maybe 3 customers still 12 volts.
If I don't have to put Not For Hire on the side do I have to put the GVWR on the side?
If retain a Commercial plate I would say Yes on the GVWR decals.
Engineer friend of wife that worked with her at MEMC made note on lifespans of Solar Cells, they are not forever and the Chinese cells are probably the least longevity wise. Polycrystalline Silicon base materials are used in the construction of the cells, they undergo chemical deposition and epi-layer over coatings to develop the Pos/Neg attributes of the charging system. There is a fine line of insulator between the elements and as such tends to decay during the course of power production. The engineer was working to extend cell lifespans in the late 90's when all hell broke loose with Chinese intellectual properties thefts, the companies into solar took large scale beatings before many shuttered or just OOB. Cells have a approximated life of 20-25 years some will fail much sooner some will extend by a great deal just no way to tell until the fails occur. He had little other information as to checking them for pre-fail indicators as they seem to flip good to bad instantaneously much as a short circuit. He did not see much variation to a theme as to structure of current cells as are called 'Improved', just does not see it.
if you are going to use forklift battery's look for battery's that are good for - opportunity charging - witch is short charging and that is what wind and solar charging is doing , at the warehouse where I work we have found some battery don't like short charging, they like a good hard deep charge
In theory, there can be some "short charging" going on. But most of the time with solar it is a good deep long charge, if you have your solar array big enough, on a sunny winter day it will be fully charged and drop into float by noon at this latitude. As stated, I don't know of anybody who has "worn out" a set of steel tray batteries. Only wasted them from neglect and abuse and even that is rare. Wind and water power are for tinkerers. I know of no one who has cleared payback on either, too many moving parts and they break down all the time. They look like they were made in some guy's garage, because they probably were. I like the idea of buying solar panels from large, established manufacturers that are old and make other things besides solar panels. Hyundai and LG are the big players at the moment that fit that bill. If they need warranty they will be around to support it, or rather, they have the incentive not to make junk because their good name is on the sticker on the back. We are starting to see replacement cycles on the stuff from the early 2000s now, did not last as long as they said (surprise) but there is no company to back them up.
Schneider Electric Supply does have good equipment as well, spendy but better grade than many I have seen throwing stuff out there. They have bought into Square D where some of the replacement larger drawer circuit breakers for the Old GEs and Westinghouse or ITE Gould are pretty chintzy/weak backed/tender components. We were seeing those as change outs at the Nuke. Thanks for the response on less than expected lifespan on the cells, not many will accept they are falling short. For now I am sitting On Grid, will be for some time unless something drastic changes up as too cheap not to use.
Birken is spot on, purchase solar panels from old established suppliers. Example of company going bust, Smartflower Austria is insolvent as of 2017. So the 25yr warranty for the solar panels is questionable. Separate US operation's CEO Jim Gordon 'plans' to manufacture in the US. 3Kw tracking self contained system @ $25K plus. Lots of moving parts to wear out or adjust. Granddad Erie A. Rawson operated Smugglers Union for a couple years before moving to Calif. Most of the family stories were about riding the cable tram, moving furniture on the tram. 6 kids confined during winters etc. Westinghouse generators are still in service today. Tinkerer's history. Pull the cable for power disconnect and adjustments bit of arc jumping involved. http://magazine.ieee-pes.org/januaryfebruary-2014/history-11/ https://edisontechcenter.org/Telluride.html
Water and wind are fine on an industrial scale where you can hire engineers and accountants to figure out what they are going to cost and the ROI. What I meant to say was, I know of no individual homeowners who have made it even close to an economic reality. There is always something wrong with it. Cheaper to buy diesel on the individual front.
Yep