Unless it's job related or an emergency save the **** chat and texting for lunch or after work. Had a young man zig zagging around on a scraper come to find out he was texting one of his friends, well what if he zig zagged into the water truck?. All the young operators seem to think it's fine and they all have a phone in their pocket. As far as I'm concerned as an empolyer I want your head in the game not stuck to a phone. Phones can make a job run smooth when used properly but can be just as distractive on the job as the highway if abused. Just had to vent
I agree pete, Also nothing as bad as working your *** off, or busting a gutt lifting something to look around and see someone texting!
Pete, I've got no problem with the phones in your pocket, but using them is a different story. Our drivers are not allowed to use a phone when driving on the highway or on rail. Some railroads don't even allow anyone in the vehicle to use a phone if the vehicle is moving. If they are a danger they'd get one warning then they'd be history.
The question of whether its safe or not, I think is separate from questions of whether one should be taking calls on company time. If you have to stop working to take personal calls, then you shouldn't be doing it. (Do as I say, not as I do.) It's my opinion that any normally coordinated person should be able to drive a vehicle with an automatic transmision and talk on the phone at the same time. I specify an automatic because with a standard transmison you need one hand on the wheel and the other to shift. Now, dialing the phone--that means you have to take your eyes off the road, and that's where the hazard exists. So, I really have no problem with answering a call while tooling down the road in my car or pickup truck. Fortunately, PA hasn't made hand held cellphones illegal while driving yet. Texting? I don't do it at all, so I don't know exactly how distracting it can be, but I imagine it pretty much requires at least one hand and your eyes to be involved, so I'd say that's a definite no-no.
at work here you can have your phone with you but you cant be on it in the work area or driving/running a piece of equipment.....
Well said Dpete and digger, I fight this problem everyday. I have made a policy of no texting except at lunch and the phone only for urgent matters but you just can't be everywhere to enforce. A lot of time gets wasted on all of the jokes that are sent via text, I enjoy a good laugh myself but as hard as it is to make money in this economy it feels like there isn't much appreciation for there job. It really feels like adult daycare sometimes instead of everyone working together to make it through these tough times.
I agree whole heartedly. I do carry my phone with me, great when the project manager needs to get ahold of me. Wife knows to only call when its important. I do use direct connect from time to time, but most of the time its when I have a few seconds in between tasks. Insurance companies are going to start cracking down on phones. It is costing them a fortune, and they are starting to pressure companies around here to make phone policies. IUOE Local 324 is telling us to leave our phones in our cars, or have them if they are for work use only. In fact, a lot of a larger jobs that require you to sign any paperwork at the beginning, most of the time it has a phone clause in it. The local has also told us that if we have signed that, they cannot do anything if we are let go for phone use. I agree with that decision, as I see several folks abuse the phone on a daily, and sometimes minute by minute basis.
Last outfit I was with was very, very strict about phone useage on the job. Boss would fire you immediately if he caught you with one, at least that's what I was told, unless it was a company supplied phone. The outfit I'm with now is pretty lax about cell phones, although for the respect of my boss I don't use mine for personal use during the work day, ever. I do keep it on me in case of emergency or if I need to get ahold of the boss and vice versa, but that's it. There are times I'm a 5-10 minute walk from where the rest of the crew is working finishing something up by myself, so I think it's a good idea to be carrying a phone but only use it for job related issues.
They way I look at it is, if we made for 100 years without these things, we can make it 10 hours. I tell my crew no-way on the phones. I even get mad when my boss calls me when I'm trying to do something. For some reason, I have to carry mine all the time. Then he gets mad cause I dont answer right a way. What a circle. Makes me long for the days of a bag full of quarters! Jason
I walked into a sign once texting. . . :beatsme Edit: My dad works for a construction company and carries his work phone on him. I can call him (although I don't call often) during his workday and he can pick up and talk for a bit, but if he's busy he just says "Hey I'm gunna hafta call you back daughter." I don't really see the big deal as long as it's not texting (although I love to do it) or abusing the privilege to make 3 minute personal phone calls here and there. So long as it's not busy and your not slowing down progress or putting other people at risk and such.
I know this is a little off the original topic, but I think a personal phone should be left in the car for the simple fact it cant be used for business. If the boss wants to get a hold of you let him/her give you a phone or radio. I worked for a guy last year that abused the fact that his employees had phones. He would call throughout the day to see how jobs were going or to let us know of changes and such. All the while refusing to compensate us for the use. Wasn't really costing me much, but I constantly thought about what he would do if all of us didnt have cell phones. He would have to buy some sort of com device whether radio or phone. It just rubbed me wrong considering I have always figured if your working for me, driving my truck I am the one responsible for making sure I can get a hold of you not the other way around. I even offered the guy the use of my motorola radius radios (I have them left over from my ready mix business) if he wanted to get a frequency for this area. He didnt want to spend the time and money to get a frequency. Anyway as much as it sucks not being full time employed right now I am happy not to deal with his BS. Sorry, rant over!!LOL!
Years back the Corps of Engineers had no policy regarding cell phone usage for us contractors. Just about everybody had one, but we were all responsible adults with jobs to do and used them sparingly, if at all, during work hours. Then one contract we had a guy flip a truck because he was on a cell phone. The guy was a real jerk to begin with- wise *** punk college kid with zero knowledge, skill, or appreciation for his $50+ per hour job. In fact, they caught him earlier with a laptop in the cab, doing his homework, while he was driving the truck! They should have fired him, but didn't, and later he got distracted by his cell phone and went over an embankment. He didn't get hurt, but it was a pretty good spill and caused some lost time for the rest of us because we had to fish it out and set it upright, etc... inevitably, the head corps honchos found out and banned cell phone use, period. If they saw you talking on a phone you were fired immediately whatever your reasons. In fact, a few contracts later our foreman's dozer track separated and flopped off, so he called the rental company to send a mechanic out. A corps bigwig happened to be up on the dike, saw him on the phone, and demanded he be fired! We did manage to straighten that particular instance out and keep our foreman after a bit of a fight, but that's how strict they became. Only takes one bad apple to spoil the barrel:Banghead
Stupid college kids!
We had some other college kids on that job (BTW, I have nothing against college kids in general, I was one myself) and some of them were really good- they wanted to learn, asked intelligent questions, did their job and were glad of the chance. This particular joker was a real piece of work, though. An arrogant know-it-all that wasn't going to be told anything by anybody, he effectively ruined what had until then been a very relaxed work environment. And was he sorry or apologetic? Not at all! In fact, his parting shot to the rest of us was that he was studying to be some sort of environmental engineer and that he was going to be back as the boss of us all :lmao:lmao:lmao Funny, I never saw him since... So, HEO Girl, if I told you that I could get you a summer gig as an artic truck driver, five days a week, eight hours a day, two fifteen minute breaks and a half hour for lunch, at $52 an hour, BUT you absolutely COULD NOT have a cell phone with you during work hours, would you take it? Would giving up the phone for 8 hours a day be worth it?
I would do it in a heart beat! Screw the phone! Haha I actually told someone at work randomly that I wanted to be an Ice Road Trucker . . . you woulda thought I said something really weird cuz they looked at me funny. I always say I wanna be something, like a Heli logger, or be on the deadliest catch hahaha. It keeps people wondering about my sanity
On local jobs as in sites that are in a defined area ,we now only allow authorised users to have a phone but on wind farm and road jobs phones are a necessity due to the size of the job but as for operating and using that can be an automatic dismissal,so to use the phone get out of the cab.
HEO Girl you gave me some good laughs today,thank you
Wow I didn't know they were so strict with cell phones on job sites and such. Getting fired for using your phone would stink. But I guess if people are abusing the privilege then somethin had to be done. That's what I'm here for dozerdave! To turn peoples frowns upside down. I could be like the site cheerleader or something. Go team! . . .
It is easy to enforce. They tell you if they have an emergency in the morning if caught on the phone fired otherwise.
I dunno. It seems like cellphones are just acting as a focal point for rage against wasted moments. How many employers would fire you on the spot for taking a minute or three to stop and BS face to face with a coworker? You might get chewed out, but really... What about a two minute pause to "finish this cigarette"? :beatsme
It's about taking your mind off of the job at hand, the more machines on the job the greater the risk of an accident, grade checkers and soil engineers on the ground, a job can be a busy place and operators need to pay attention.
Had a artic driver who would pull under me to load at 6;05 am first load of the day on the phone, at 6;05pm last load of the day still on the phone. Always wondered what kinda phone bill he had:beatsme :drinkup
well, i had to call turbo today to tell him about the burned up paver that came back to the yard 2 hours after it left. and he called me to tell me about his plugged up screen. it is like a 300 mile smoke break
We have a zero tolerance policy in the mine. You bring a cell phone past the parking lot or locker room, yer gone. Zero, zip, nada, none! I LOVE it. When I go to work I want to leave the outside world... well, outside. Once I walk through the gate my focus is safety and production, in my opinion you can't get either with yer stinkin' phone ringing!! The shift forman and feild office have phones if you need to make a call. With that said, when I was driving over the road my cell was a must have, as much a tool as anything else. But there again, common sense must prevail as when to use it.
Uuuh - are you exagerating here? They will fire you? What if your wife is pregnant or your mother is on her way to the hospital? Let's not get carried away here, fellas. The conversations can't be about the other gender's genitalia, but an emergency call within reason, should certainly be allowable. I would NEVER work somewhere where I was totally unaccountable for my wife and children for 10 hours. Unacceptable.
Dead serious. My wife has my formans cell number and the feild office/dispatcher's number. If she needs anything or there is an emergency, she call's them and we go from there. It works too. Consider this too. My work environment is probably lot's differant than your's. Even if I could take the phone with me, I sit on a shovel 1500 feet below our elevation. Our mine is one HUGE dead zone. I have never had a problem getting messages if needed. We have enough security and supervisors that if a call comes in we get it NOW! Also, how would you like it if you knew that the haul truck that weighs 200 tons empty, is flying at you at 30mph, is being driven by someone talking on the phone or worse... a texter. The size of the equipment we work with is so big and unforgiving we just don't take chances. I do agree with you, I would never work at a place where I was out of touch with the family for extend period. I've had a few legitimate emergencies happen, and never lost any time in getting there.
This is my point. Prudence is to be expected by gentlemen who can be trusted with such expensive equipment - such as yourslves.
I think cell phones have their place on some jobsites , especially big jobs but texting doesnt , I dont even like texting anytime , But there is a time to answer the phone and a time you shouldnt , If its important then in most cases its ok , but if its your buddy calling to see what you are up to and nothing else dont answer , and if your a production equipment operator and you answer the phone for anything , it basically shuts the job down , and then your just sitting idle and thats no good
See we use texting once in a while especially with the camera phones we can take a picture and text it to my dad or someone else in the office or on another job and they will have a better idea of what were looking for or what we need when were asking them for something
I use direct connect all day. It helps, saves time from walking up the road to talk to some one or driving up. I use my phone within reason. If I get a free second if it important or wait till coffee time.
I have to have them on me at all times.I actually carry two and use them both.It is irritating as hell when I am on a machine and they are ringing along with the radio constantly yapping with issues I need to square away for foremen. I do truly hate a cell phone but it is a necessity.As for my guys.I don`t mind if they have em on site but if it gets to be a deal where the machine is stopping 10 times an hour to chat with wifey or girlfriend, I will step in and say ,"Hey, we are not payin you to run your trap on that phone,..if I have to tell you again,turn in your **** and draw your wages".
I believe cell phones fall under the same debate as guns. Guns are very useful, helpful, necessary, and offer a high degree of protection......WHEN USED BY A RESPONSIBLE PERSON!!!!!!. So are cell phones. If there is a problem with employee's talking on cell phones the underlying problem is with the employee not the cell phone. All of our employees carry a cell phone on their person, we have no problem with them what so ever, mainly because they are all responsible people and they know when to use them. Our phones even have full Internet access so they can check the weather, e-mail,etc.... So to sum it all up......Guns don't kill, people do......computer keys don't make typo's, people do.....cell phones don't waste time and cause accidents, people do.
Well put Ruben. There is a time and a place. I've walked out of a bad scrape because of a cell phone, and walked others through a bad one also during my time on the water. They do have a place. Other times...I've wanted to deep-six the user and the phone. :Banghead Be responsible. Mommas at home ready to deliver or the kiddos are sick or the job has a lull in the action or an emergency....fine. Not fine is when you are calling to BS about where to drink after work or giving a buddy hell cause his team lost. Tell momma also, sometimes she just has to wait until you get home to let you know that junior is in trouble at school. At least then you an concentrate on the work and keep from being distracted with your thoughts. Texting is a definate no no. All the texts I ever get are sweetie/honey-do messages from the wife or forwarded jokes. Rarely do I ever use it for anything real important.
X2 we are not suppose to smoke in our iron. All the smokers get to stop and have a break every hr or more and I can't since I don't smoke? I make maybe one personal call a day average and try and keep them short. The only situation where personal phone shouldn't be aloud are in mines ETC like Eric posted. Where there are people around to relay a message in a very timely manner. Every company I have worked for has a "cell are to be left in the vehicle" policy. I laugh at them they are a joke and have butted head with a few supers over them. I let them contact me on my phone and in turn I can make some personal calls. As long as it doesn't get abused by either party and if I go over my minutes they either pay the difference or I will start ignoring calls. I do my own thing a lot on job sites. Sometimes I'm the only person on site and then even me carrying my phone gives me little comfort if something bad happened I could get help in time. It does drive me nuts to see guys sitting on the phone all day. Even if you have nothing to do if that phone wasn't so far up your you know what. Maybe you would find something or see me trying to get your atention when I need help. The other day one of the tires where completely flat on our pullpan. The operator stopped I pulled up next to him got out of my cab and he sat there one his phone. After a few seconds of sitting there and getting behind in what I was doing I through my hands up and went back to work. I almost called the boss to tell him to let the operator know about it since he was to busy on his cell to talk to me. It would have been a wast of time though.
As has been stated previously it only takes one to mess it up for everybody. A company I was on hire to had a NO MOBILE PHONES to be used within this site boundry sign up. Then the Works Manager rings up to give me instructions :beatsme Seriously it is a fine line that we all tread. I fully appreciate a ban in Mines and on major earthworks with ADT's or scrapers moving about, it also has to be controlled in the general work place mainly due to the thoughtlessness of a few. ( many that should know better) I told my banksman only last week. I have no problem with you taking a call but a) make sure you are in my line of sight and I have seen you, b) move out of the work zone, c) grab hold of a fence post or something else unmovable so you dont walk about in a fog while taking the call. I have my mobile with me in the machine and used a Bluetooth ear piece. That is now banned while operating. To take a call I place the bucket on the ground and lift the deadman lever. I only make calls at break time unless its work related or an emergency and the same rules apply.
One other thought on cell phones.I have a really good kid with a ton of potential but it seems every time I pull up he is stopped typing that text stuff on his phone.I worked with him on a site and ran a blade there one day last week and it seemed every time I looked up from my mouldboard,he was stopped and typing in that text garbage(if you have a phone,why not talk on it?). I try to be a fair man but I really can not allow that type of activity.I think I am going to talk to his foreman and tell him to speak to him about it.Good kid or not I can`t allow that type of behavior.If I did it for him,I`d have too do it for everyone and that is not acceptable. Why can`t folks just call at lunch or after they get off the clock? I understand an emergency or a call that has to be made in business hours,but not this crap texting nonsense.
What gets me is why do they think it's ok to screw around on the phone in the first place? Does it occur to them they are being paid to run equipment in a professional manner not play on the phone like a kid with a new toy ?
Our generation does not like to work, first of all. Secondly, texting is a way of passing the time. It serves a different purpose than calling someone. When people text for hours on end, it's not because they NEED to talk to anyone, it's because they find it entertaining. What would take 2-3 minutes in a voice conversation could take an hour or more while texting, therefore it's a way of dragging information out of someone. Like I said, it's entertainment and more often than not, it's just small talk and isn't anything of importance anyway. I'm 22, I fall into the age range of most texters and I hate it, have a lot of friends that do it all the time and it's annoying when they're on their phones all the time. Almost all of them have that Twitter crap which is whole other can of worms that takes texting to a whole new level, I don't use that garbage, either.
i have to carry my phone on the job because i have to keep in touch with my boss but if he calls me while on loading a truck or dozing on the hill i dont answer to concentrated on my job
I wish I could not answer Case 580 but my position makes it imperative I answer the phone and I have to dial a number and talk in between cutting bluetops or driving down the road to check another job site or with a set of prints on the ground with a scale and a phone in my ear answering questions about a job 100 miles away. I truly hate the phone anymore but without it, production would be horrible on distant jobs,plus keeping GC superintendents happy is a 24 hour job it seems. I started turning my phone off at 7 pm at night.. ointhead
we just had a safety meeting on this very subject,no phones,ipods,head phones,on company time period.OK for the company phones because they are business related.they said they must remain in lunchbox or vehicle,etc anywhere but on your person.i think it's true just takes a few to ruin it for everyone. the young generation text,that's what they do,i know my son could drive and text safely he doesn't even need to look at his phone to have a text conversation,me on the other had,not good
So a business related conversation isn't unsafe, but a conversation with the wife is? Does anyone here refrain from having a conversation with their passenger while they're driving down the interstate at 70 mph, because it's too distracting and would be unsafe? I can't see how a cellphone conversation would be any different. As I said above, it's the "eyes off the road" time needed for dialing or reading the caller ID that poses the hazard. At highway speeds, eyes off the road for a few seconds can be critical. In most excavating equipment, if you're only a few seconds of distraction away from causing a disaster, you're already a hazard and shouldn't be in the seat anyway. As I said above, on the jobsite, I think they just an easy target for rage against all the time that employees waste otherwise. I agree that Reuben stated the case very well.
Unfortunately I am a slave to the mobile phone and diary and do spend a bit of time each day going back to the truck to check the diary with the phone glued to the ear. Not a problem as long as the other people on site can see that it is business related. However chatting to your mates about what to do on the weekend while a crew stands there watching you is not acceptable. Texting is also a no no unless related to the job on hand. But when the phone rings the machine stops, I have had to tell customers that I will ring them back because I am in the truck driving down the road. Better that than cause an accident. Mobiles are a handy thing to get more work done the right way but can be a danger.
Digger if it's job related it's usually short and if they have to stop to hear instructions that's alot different than **** chat with the wife on the employers dime don't you think?
i got a question for u guys ....how bout a bluetooth ? i know guys that use them so that they still have both hands on the controls and be able to talk,or on the jobs were they dont like you on it you can hide that your on your phone ...they think your just singing in the cab......
I don't disagree that a conversation about the job is totally different than a chat with the wife. I addressed that in my very first comment above, Post #4. As far as the business conversations being usually short, yeah, sometimes . But that's beside the point. If you wanted to have an equally short converstion with the wife, they're telling you not to, and calling it a safety issue. I'm just pointing out the double standard.
That double standard ran rampant at my previous employer. They didn't want you making any calls, but if they needed you, you damn well better answer your personal phone for them.
The real diffrence being the nature of the call is what makes it acceptable. "Hey, foreman Joe, send a mechanic, I'm pouring hydro outta my machine and can't hoist ." an appropriate call. "Hey bro, looks like your team crapped out last night...SUCKA!!!" Not appropriate. "Hey baby, I'm working a little longer this afternoon, they want to finish this cut and won't make it to Mary's soccer game to pick her up." totally kosher "Where do you want go to dinner tonite, babe." not appropriate. Tap tap tap tap tap tap...(two guys walk into bar....) wrong on so many levels. Every one who runs a machine on a job site is at least 18 yrs old. Use your head. If you have to make a call, stop the machine, park, drop your bucket, and dial away. Just prepared to suffer any discipline if you get written up or run off or run over. Is this call that important? Am I being safe, productive and professional? Are my actions going to foul it up for everyone? I have my ringers on my phone to give me an idea of who may be calling, that way I can chose to answer those calls that my be important to me. At very least I can look at the screen and tell if it is an important call or not.
this was not my opinion either way i was just stating the rules at the particular place that i am employed,i don't have to agree with them but i do have to follow the rules..i think we all see alot of do as we say, not as we do.:Banghead
I know that it doesn't make sense but I do find a difference. It seems like most people mentally go to the conversation. If that is in the cab then that is where the attention stays. You don't see a lot of people weaving while chatting with a passenger, but you see an awful lot swerving while on the phone, and not just while dialing. There was a segment on TV saying that texting and driving was more dangerous than drinking and driving.
I wasn't aiming my comment at you personally. I just used your post to raise the point that it is a double standard. I don't know how many of you are aware that several times recently, places like the Memphis air traffic control center have lost all their communications at once--radios, landlines between them and other FAA facilities, and commercial telephone landlines. Controllers have had to use their personal cellphones to re-establish comms with other facilities to handle their traffic. And FAA rules strictly prohibit controllers having cellphones in the operational quarters. http://www.faafollies.com/?p=270 So, it's not just a double standard in our industry...
I see a lot of people weaving while looking at the vehicle next to them, trying to see whether the driver's on the phone or not. :tong On edit: Although, now that I think of it, I did notice a woman one day, obviously having a very heated cellphone converstion with somebody, and gesturing with both hands...
I used a Bluetooth but the contractor has now banned them. I think they are very good if used at an appropriate time. I have the phone in a cradle on my right hand window so I can see who it is calling without touching the phone. Depending on who it is, it gets answered or ignored. Its suprising how often the call was not important enough for them to leave a message.
Phone MorALity Use of communication devices at work should be previously understood and most certainly dictated by the environment the operator is exposed to at present. You can't take a call if the machine is down, you can't take a call while operating with open traffic lanes close by, you can't take a call while the prime contractor is explaining how they want it done, you can't take a call with DOT watching However, You CAN take and make a call when; your outta trucks, letting the other machine work for a second to catch up, its early in the day is better than late in the day calls, they are in the hole measuring...ect. It boils down to a code of when is appropriate and when isn't. To totally ban calls would never work other then a slight measure of controlling it.
Oh k. I have a cell phone (what teen doesn't??) and it is equipped with MXIT, a totally awesome GPRS instant messaging service. I can type without looking at what I'm doing, but that doesn't mean that I do it when I'm walking, etc. However, my dad gets really pissed when he sees me online when he's asked me to do something... Another great feature of the cell phone is its ability to play music...
No, full concentration on the job or the machine stops, no exceptions. In my job I run machines a couple of feet away from peoples heads, do you think I should be talking on the phone while I am protecting their lives? Cowboys ride horses, operators use machines to get the job done SAFELY!!!
every company i have worked for has given me a company cell...so now i have 2 clipped to my belt...last company i was with even gave me a beeper for being on call 24/7...so i guess they encourage cell usage haha
No, you certainly shouldn't have any distractions in that situation. What if you were alone in the middle of an open field, just bailing dirt out of a hole? Would you feel the same standards apply?
Yes, either you aim to be a professional or you don't. Whether you own the keys or where given them don't matter. "You see boss the reason your half million dollar machine is on it's side is because my mate was telling me about his/her hot new girl/boyfriend and I got a bit close to the edge and then he/she told me about what she/he does and..............." I find that when I am on the phone I concentrate a fair bit on what the person on the other end is saying to me and I know this takes away from my ability to concentrate on other things and I don't see too many rodeo riders talking on the phone while they are getting bucked around.
IF, IF AND, AND'S MADE POTS AND PANS THERE WOULD NO NEED FOR TINKERS!! The use of if's can justify any scenario we are supposed to be professionals and know our job ,the regulations, and rules.WE HAVE BEEN INDUCTED TO A SITE,these are the rules of this site ,anything can be justified with if , if he wasn't drunk, if it was done this way or if he did this if he wasn't on the phone,wake up and smell the coffee ,here the law states that you cannot hold a phone while operating a mechanical device, each state has a law, each site has rules,they are there for our protection and every employee on the site .Every site differs ,a site is a place where an individual or a conglomerate of people and equipment work,if sites were unruly places people would do what they wanted,excavations would be left open ,scaffolding would be modified,labourers driving plant.How many of you would stand for that?Who would want to work if the chance of being killed was heigh ,who here would walk on a site with a slab of beer and consume it while operating equipment and when an incident occurred would blame something or someone else,there are reasons why we don't encourage this behaviour and that is because we know what is wrong so if you know it wrong why do you do it ,would you be prepared for the consequences. While on a site a while go a banksman was employed to watch trucks reverse to a point on the site , boring **** of a job yea well he was texting a friend while a truck backed in to a trench and killed two labourers, SO YOU DECIDE DO YOU KNOW BETTER! NOW Let see how if now fit in this scenario..... Replies Welcome Stock
In my first reply to this topic, on the subject of texting, I said: Thank you for providing an example to back me up on that. Agree 100%. What I percieve as the point of disagreement here is whether or not it's unprofessional in every case for an operator to posess a cellphone. I can't agree that it is. It's my opinion that a "professional" should be a responsible enough person; a disciplined enough person, to determine when it's appropriate to use their cellphone, and when it's inappropriate. If a company is hiring individuals who aren't sufficiently responsible to make that determination, it's a problem with the quality of the people they're hiring, or at least a problem with how well-disciplined those people are. My question to Hendrik was to further explore the question raised by jimmyjack about talking on a bluetooth, as opposed to a handheld model. I'll certainly never argue against Hendrik's personal policy of total concentration on his work, whether he's working in crowded quarters or alone in an open field. If that's the standard he sets for himself, his employer is a lucky man indeed. As you may have guessed though, I personally think that, in certain situations, I could handle talking and operating at the same time, without compromising my professionalisim but then, that's just me. Uhh...you seem to have seized fairly strongly on the word "if". I'm not really sure how to carry on a discussion of various hypothetical situations if you're going to take that word out of my vocabulary.
As an owner operator my cell phone is an important tool.Communication is important with my job.I like to be in contact with my customer and they like to be in contact with me at all times.If I am pushing dirt with the dozer I will stop and answer the phone.Now if I am in the middle of a crane set I will let it ring and if it is an important call they will leave a message .
Digger what I meant with the IF word is that people use it after the http://europe.nokia.com/find-produc...s/car-solutions/car-kits/nokia-car-kit-ck-15w to apportion blame,in this situation we as professionals must use our discretion as to when it is appropriate to use a phone ie out in a 10 acre field digging a hole,with the advent of bluetooth http://www.pioneer.nl/nl/products/archive/DEH-P70BT/index.html I have a similar system in the wife's car and a nokia kit fitted to the Land Rover http://europe.nokia.com/find-produc...s/car-solutions/car-kits/nokia-car-kit-ck-15w these are excellent systems and relatively safe,If I was to go back on the levers it a system like this http://www.mysilvercrest.de/en/kategorie.php?k=15 as it has a hard wire mike and can be bought for less than a hundred euro, it also has a din plug so should fit any item of plant. In conclusion as previously said we are professionals involved in a dangerous environment, anything that raises this danger level needs to be assessed either by management or owner /operator .This is in my opinion is the way to go and at the end of the day we will be responsible for our decisions and actions. Stock
I agree:drinkup Also, just because you think you're alone doesn't mean that you are. A friend of mine was in an excavator installing cathodic protection on a gas pipeline. He was working by himself, out in a swamp in the middle of nowhere, bailing dirt. At some point in the process he took a scoop, swung around to dump it on the spoil pile, and hit an old man in the head with the bucket. Fortunately for the old guy, Bill is a crackerjack operator and got it stopped quickly enough so that it just tapped him, but it did cause him to fall down, more out of surprise than anything else. Bill says he was sure at first that he had killed the guy, and that he'll relive that moment for the rest of his life. The old man, who owned a home along the ROW, had wanted to ask a question and for reasons known only to himself had decided to slog his way through the swamp and approach Bill's excavator from the boom side to ask it:beatsme Good thing for that guy Bill wasn't on his cellphone. I've had similar, but no quite as dramatic, incidents while in an excavator, and I'm sure anyone who's spent any appreciable time in the seat has had a person or vehicle appear unexpectedly My Grandfather, a lifelong union operating engineer, used to tell me that "with these things (machines) it's only a matter of time before you kill or maim somebody". Of course the safety standards were a bit different back then, but the moral still holds true- heavy equipment is dangerous and you should give it your full attention at all times.
I have lots of employers, they ring me on the phone and ask me to do a job to the best of my ability. I then go to where they want me and my machines and do the job as quickly, efficiently and SAFELY as possible. I also have the role in my business as chief risk assessor, which means I have to asses the risks that may be involved in doing the job. I also have to set an example for those that work around me, which includes getting off my behind and walking the area to ensure there are no dangers. There is no one to tell me how to do my job and I have to set rules for myself because if I don't and mistakes happen then the authorities will have to step in and control every aspect of what I do, which may well mean no using the mobile while sitting on a machine. Or perhaps even a blanket ban on phones on work sites.
Let me ask you a question, Hendrik, if I may. Do you allow yourself the distraction of listening to the radio while you operate? Some background--a large number of years ago, I was working for a dirt contractor, and he assigned me to run a vibratory roller. A noisy vibratory roller. On the second day on that roller, I made sure I had my ear protection on. Not earplugs, but the full earmuffs kind. The first thing he did when he saw me was to challenge me, in the name of safety, as to what the %$@#*& I was doing listening to the radio. These days it's not at all uncommon for the factory to install a radio in a machine. Who's got the right idea on the question of radios?
WHAT'S THAT? i CAN'T HEAR YOU THE RADIO IS TOO LOUD Well for one thing none of my machines have radios and the one in the truck is not working. However when I am on a machine with a wireless I do turn it on but only loud enough so I can still hear the machine working and someone yelling in case of an emergency but if it is difficult/dangerous work the radio gets switched off. Comparing a radio playing music to a phone conversation in regards to distractions is a bit odd. Sure talkback radio is bit similar to phone converastion but not quite.
I am with digger on this one. I do not see what the big deal is with operators carrying cell phones. If everyone here is as professional as they claim to be, they should know when and when not to use the cell phone. If on a large job site where production is important or safety could be compromised, I have no doubt that if someone is seen using the cell phone unnecessarily, the other professional operators will soon let them know or report them. In our situation where we and our operators work alone in remote situations, they will not leave without a cell phone. This is so that we have total communication in the case of emergencies, job changes, breakdowns, weather changes, you name it, it sure beats driving 20 or 30 kilometres just to pass a message on. If we are operating when the cell phone rings and it is unsafe to answer it, we let it ring, after all the cell phones record missed calls and have message bank, we just return the call when it is convenient. Something I have not seen mentioned, but I may have missed it, is that most bigger operations have two way radio in their machines and trucks anyway, so what is the difference. On the odd occasion that we have worked with larger outfits, the operators were yacking on the radio all day and they were talking absolute crap. Texting while operating is definitely not on. Hendrik, you are self employed, so you will need to carry your cell phone if you want to run your business, so what is the problem with stopping the machine for a couple of minutes, while you take the call. While it is convenient to blame the banksman for texting on his cell phone, Stock, what on earth was the truck driver doing when he was backing up, to back into the trench, in my opinion, he is as culpable as the banksman and why were two men working in a trench so close to reversing trucks? Dave, this just shows how easily and unexpectedly, things can happen, but perhaps if Bill was talking on the cell phone, he would have stopped the machine. If Bill was working for me and he did hit the old man, injuring him, I would hope that Bill had his cell phone with him, so that he could call the emergency services and get help as quickly as possible. Rn'R.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0212/kerry_av.html?2218529,null,230 This is another incident involving a mobile phone touting banksman ,the deceased walked behind the excavator to move a traffic cone signalled to the banksman his intent,the operator tracked back and well it on the news ,the digger was loading trucks but had cables on his off side the banksman was there to warn for traffic and the wires or other such items, as the road wasn't wide enough to allow the excavator to slew a full 360 . As I have said the big thing here is to do a RISK ASSESSMENT and if the risk is minimal then go for it, if the risk is great and god forbid you use the phone, resulting in a fatality or injury then you pay the price and carry the guilt. Stock
The issue is not having a mobile on you but using it and operating a machine (or doing another job, such as guiding trucks). Or in other words diverting 60-70% of your concentration power to something other than the job you are supposed to be doing. You sound like a pro and would not talk on the phone and do your job but others might be tempted if they feel that the situation is right to. However those with some experience know that the situation can change, a little boy can wander onto site for a look see, the missus turns up with your forgotten lunch and parks in the wrong spot, etc, etc. Like yesterday, I was doing a trenching job for a couple of sparkys, now they have some experience in working around ex's and knew to stand out of my swing area and if they needed to come into the swing area made sure that they approached from an angle that I could see them and made eye contact to ensure that I knew they where there. However all of a sudden the owner of the house is standing right next to the machine and if I had decided to swing the other way I may well have got him with the counterweights. I do try and have the habit of looking around the work site to see what is going on and where everybody is and do a quick glance over the shoulder before reversing, I am thinking of getting a little wide angle mirror and putting it on the ROPS, so I can see what is behind the machine. And yes later on the phone rang, I dropped the bucket, idled the machine and got off the ex to answer the call. Production dropped to zero but safety remained at required level. I do not know the details of the backing truck accident but it seems that there was a system put in place that was compromised by a team member not doing there job. And no there should not be workers behind a reversing truck, what happens if the brakes fail, the driver has a heart attack, etc. Sounds to me like a case of production rate coming before safety and Stock may well have a whole lot of new safety regulations to deal with, perhaps a no phones on site policy.
RnR, Good point(s), I'd agree with you for the most part. I have nothing against carrying a cell phone, I thought the issue was talking on it while operating/driving? Digger, you mentioned listening to the radio in the cab- I remember my Grandad telling my about when car radios first began to be popular, there was great hue and cry that it would be mayhem and carnage if folks tried to listen to the radio while they drove, never mind try to tune the thing in!
Talking about safety.Cell phones and radios could be considered safety equipment in case of an emergency.I have also seen crane operators communicate with the rigger on a cell phone when setting a load in a blind spot.I would say that most operators on the forum know when to answer the phone and when not to.If I had a "hands free" head set I would probably answer It more often on some jobs.Heck,come to think of it aircraft & helicopter pilots and astronauts are on the radio all the time while in flight.I guess if they can talk while operating than most of us can handle communicating on a cell phone or radio while operating a dozer or excavator ,crane ,etc if it is job related.
I brought up the radio because, as I related in my post, the man I was working for tried to portray it as a safety issue. To me, safety is never absolute--it's always relative, and the sum of a series of compromises. Total undistracted focus, listening to the radio, talking on a cellphone, texting, having a beer while watching the big game on a portable tv in your lap...while operating. Somewhere along that line is the place where relatively safe turns into relatively hazardous. What we're exploring in this conversation is where that happens. (And just as a side note--while I don't ever object to any measure that genuinely has safety as it's motivation, I do have a problem with using "safety" as an excuse for something else that might be on somebody's agenda, like productivity. If you knew the guy I was working for, you'd recognize that safety was not his first priority. Nor was employee morale. I honestly think his real objection to the thought that I might be listening to the radio was that the radio would make my day less miserable.) Stock has mentioned a couple of incidents where trucks backed over people, and cellphones were a factor. About five years ago, only a few miles form here, a truck tragically backed over two guys who were standing on open ground on a highway job. There was no mention of a cellphone in use by either the driver or the victims, but I can just about gaurantee that it was a cellphone that was used to call 911. Link. The comment about aviation by 25c is interesting. I'm not sure if any of you are aware of what's called the "sterile cockpit". On commercial flights, from the time the aircraft leaves the gate, until it returns to the gate, at any altitude below 10,000 feet, the pilots are restricted, by law, from any conversation that is not directly related to the business of flying the airplane. Experience has shown that distraction during that phase of flight can have dire consequences. (However, I don't think anyone will argue that operating an excavator or ADT is as demanding as piloting an airliner.) I don't want anyone to think for one minute that I'm advocating for unrestricted and unwise use of the cellphone. I'm not. I'll reiterate and clarify something I tried to express above--If it takes a blanket ban on cellphone posssesion on the worksite to keep a company's employees from being involved in a serious, perhaps fatal, accident, then the problem is with the quality of the people they've hired, not with cellphones.
I suppose you can let your co-pilot help whilst you are yabbering on the phone.
I ALREADY POSTED THIS ONCE BUT HERE IT IS AGAIN FOR THOSE THAT SKIP OVER THE "MIDDLE POSTS",,,,,, I believe cell phones fall under the same debate as guns. Guns are very useful, helpful, necessary, and offer a high degree of protection......WHEN USED BY A RESPONSIBLE PERSON!!!!!!. So are cell phones. If there is a problem with employee's talking on cell phones the underlying problem is with the employee not the cell phone. All of our employees carry a cell phone on their person, we have no problem with them what so ever, mainly because they are all responsible people and they know when to use them. Our phones even have full Internet access so they can check the weather, e-mail,etc.... So to sum it all up......Guns don't kill, people do......computer keys don't make typo's, people do.....cell phones don't waste time and cause accidents, people do. __________________
Cell phones in the cab: Well you could probably guess that I do digger242j, and it's a good point. Actually I do 25c, a genuine David Clark helicopter head set with a boom mic, and a PTT switch on my dozer control lever. (redundant horn button) I can hear, and talk to a dozer boss without taking my hands off the controls or even having to stop. I just rigged it up 2 years ago... oh what a blessing it is. If I'm not on a fire, I use them just for sound deadening. They're so comfortable, I can almost forget I have them on. I spent around 5 to 6 hundred, but I'd do it again in a heart beat. Yup, we're starting to pack cell phones too, mostly for a backup, but sometimes, you might want to talk privately, ie, not over the radio. OCR...
Well I suppose that driving and talking on the cell phone is just as dangerous. I've spoken to many truck drivers here, I mean long haul drivers, and they have said that the one thing that never stops is the boss phoning them up "where's that delivery?! The customer is waiting!!" non stop, so isn't that a case of the owner of the truck and the driver employer endangering his truck and driver by distracting them on a busy highway going up to 80kph? :beatsme Surely driving a big rig, sometimes even interlinks on our roads, requires just as much or even more concentration as opposed to operating, say an excavator or grader?
posts need to get my three posts in. Thanks
Welcome Mike P, but do you have anything constructive to say on this thread, other than getting your three posts. You could easily have come up with something valuable to add.
Well, despite me hating phones while on the machine, i have been informed I need to be able to be contacted at any time now. Wonderful little promotion got me a truck, a bunch of paperwork, and constant phone calls. Then they wonder why nothing gets done
Phones ..nope not in the cab .. If its ringing and i ain't answering ..I'm making you money ..leave a message ..I'll call on coffee break Personal favorite is these job's where they want to use your personal phone to get you ...when i don't answer and they bark.. ..."well ...you see ... i bought the phone for my convenience"
all dump truck driver's talk on the phone. usually all day, to whomever will answer the phone and talk them. sometimes they give you the "hold on" while you give them their next load. i think it is rude and unsafe. b ut that is my opinion. we use radios in everthing from the office to the field.:usa
If you're waiting for something (getting loaded, or waiting for a truck to come etc etc) fine whatever. It's down time as long as you're still somewhat paying attention to whats going on. The second that it starts taking away from the work (safety or production) you shouldn't be doing it.
sounds like a bit of a cop out to me 'I was distracted by/ or while on the phone' when the real truth is 'I took me eyes off the job or lost concentration and stuffed up'. Its easier to blame something, that way you keep your good operator status.
My cell phone comes in handy when I screw up and don't want to use the radio and have everyone here me.
This ain't necessarily about "phone in equipment" cab, but related. Every day around 3:30 the parcel delivery guy (company will remain unsaid) shows up at our place to pick up packages. Not always, but more often than not, he wheels up, shut's it off, and hops out of the cab...talking on the phone. And continuing to talk while loading, shuts the door...while talking. Hops in the cab, still talking. And I watch him pull out and hit the road...still talking. Guy runs a commercial vehicle and talks on the phone more than a teanager!
ATCO, the funny thing about that us a lot of the older 'delivery' trucks are still manual trans...watch em try and steer and shift at the same time.
I have stayed away from this thread but I did have a phone(old bag phone) in the cab when I worked for a builder back in the early 90's. I never made a personal call on it and used it mainly for calling for quarry deliveries or parts. It was handy the day I chopped a grossly mismarked cable,phone and fiber optic. I told my boss early on that if he bugged me with the phone no digging was getting done while he was yakking at me. I had a nextel with push to talk on another job and same rule applied. I did not answer till I pulled off the highway and could talk safely. most times they got tired of waiting for me to pick up and just left a message. It was like my daily comedy session to hear them say"are you there" on the push to talk. After about 3 times they would say call when you can. I have a personal phone that stays in my wifes car for emergency only. In 8 months we have put about 46 minutes on it. I can't stand drivers talking and weaving!!
LoL...it is a manual shift truck. You ought'a here him chunk the gears...while talking! That's why I posted this, it's unbelievable to watch him day after day repeating this behavior!
Yup and you share the road with this clown. Sounds like a real professional until the day his luck runs out.
Whether distracted by talking on the blower or watching that hot sheila across the road, it is still distracting and no you don't keep your good operator status blaming talking on the phone. And yes when I am birdwatching the machine stops, as does the rest of the crew End of the day you are either 100% on the job or stop the machine.
sorry that last sentence was spoused to be sarcastic. The phone is the least of my worries. I have a massive flatulance problem:notworthy. I'm not kidding either . It's hard to see with tears streaming out your eyes. Even my dog hates me. $0 dollar hands free kit(almost)-need shirt with top pocket. Turn speaker too maximum. Flip phone upside down with microphone out. Only have to stop to push answer key. Works best in a enclosed cab with bigger phone, small top pocket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRmX6sERgnU this is how i distract myself. iphones are awesome.
that the new iphone 3g s ......mine doesnt do video
More on the dangers of texting, even if you're not at the controls of anything...
That's DEP's fault. That's REALLY stupid - no caution tape, cones, nothing?? WT X ? Those mother X -ers will give you a ONE THOUSAND DOLLAR TICKET in Westchester if your truck smokes too much! X them. Where's OSHA? That is NOT that girl's fault! She's 15 - ALL 15 year olds are retarded - and what about a blind person? Better hope your cane hits that hole, or YOU DIE. What about geriatrics??? X - them. I hope that kid sues them for 1,000,000!
I agree that the manhole should've been protected. That's a whole nother safety discussion, and certainly a valid one. The tie-in to this thread though, is that when texting, people seem to become oblivious to all their surroundings. That was the point I was trying to make. (And please, even if you have very strong feelings about something, don't make me edit disguised profanity. Four times, out of the same post? You know better than that.) (On edit: I'd also be remiss if I failed to point out that lots of people would take exception to your use of the word "retarded". You may have missed it, but it has been a point of controversy here in the past. Please show proper consideration for the feelings of our other members. Thanks.)
i wonder if my 980 loader would fit in a manhole?
I'm calling OSHA 9:00 AM tomorrow to find out what the case number is on that incident.:cussing Really NOT a big fan of the DEP.
If you get 'er in there...send a pic!
Squizzy PMed me that the link didn't work for him. There must be some internet factor that doesn't feed that link to Oz. I don't know if it'll work everywhere else or not. If it doesn't, here are some results from Google. Interestingly, there seems to be plenty of opinion that the girl was at least partially to blame. As I said above, the manhole should have been protected, but on the other hand, she might just as easily have stepped off the curb into the path of an oncoming truck...
Lots of times in big cities, kids tend to pull covers or dislodge them so the they are not on properly. Initially, that's what I thought happened here. Instead, looks like someone is gonna be getting a nice fat check while someone else SHOULD get the ax................:Banghead
Must be our you beaut internet censorship, guess it didn't like the words teenage girl and manhole. Seriously it asked me to sign in and since I don't have a password I can't watch the girl get swallowed up. However yes if you create a hole in the middle of the sidewalk you gotta put something around it to stop people falling in.
Got this in an email today.... OSHA says that distracted driving is a factor in 25 percent to 30 percent of all traffic crashes. Researchers say that cell phone use while driving is among the biggest distractions—even with hands-free phones. Here's yet another study about the hazards of using a cell phone and driving. This one, conducted by University of Utah psychologists Frank Drews, Monisha Pasupathi, and David Strayer, concludes that drivers are far more distracted when talking on a cell phone than they are when talking to passengers in the vehicle. In fact, the researchers say that a person driving and talking on a cell phone is as impaired as a person with the 0.08 percent blood—alcohol level that defines drunk driving in most states.
I am posting this from the seat of my 980f. Technology is awesome. Now, to update my facebook page
Just for that you should be made go back to the beginning and reread this thread in its entirety .
Yeah but are operating the machine at the same time?
Operating? I doubt it. Sounds more like a driver to me. :drinkup
Dude you need to stop typing before you have accident.:Banghead
They do it all the time.
:lmao :lmao :duh Knowing Q and that big key he carries around with him I expect it was tea time as I am pretty sure he's a fella and everybody knows us fellas cant multi task
wait just a minute! a fella? big key? are you sayin' i drink and operate? i take my vids with my phone. i have a mount for it. i only type while stopped. honest!
grease help!! Can't stand guys who don't grease and the sleaves spin! Tried to drill one out today without any luck 30 mins. Is there an easier way or special bit for this hard steel?? Thks:Banghead