Ran out of fuel and since then the above is happening. I have changed out both the Primary & Secondary fuel filters but same result. Purchased hoe with an electric fuel pump installed by-passing stock gear pump. Not sure if this the problem or not. After about 5 min, the engine starts to run rough them stops. Upon immediate restart, the motor will start and then quickly stop. Usually have to wait till the next day to start and have it run for the 5 minutes. Thanks in advance,
Take apart the lines from the tank to the first filter and blow them out. Check if there's a screen in the tank also. Generic fuel starvation advice.
The engine driven gear fuel pump on a Detroit puts out gobs of fuel at 60 PSI to the injectors. A rebuild kit can be found for $50.00 on line. A new one is $150.00. They move a ton of fuel and return a lot. A electric pump is nice to prime with but I am leary that it will keep it running with any efficiency. The only puzzling thing I see is how it ran fine until you ran it out of fuel?
I second Delmers advice, if it ran fine until you ran it out of fuel, clear all the lines. BTW, I guess you know by now it's a bad idea to run a diesel out of fuel. And I'm with old iron habit, I'd prefer the original gear pump as opposed to an electric lift pump on a Detroit. If it works, don't mess with it.
Thank you, Great Feedback! I will flush the lines and get the gear pump changed out or rebuilt. Would it be a good idea to leave the electric pump inline as a primer? Or remove all together? If leaving it in, should the electric pump be up or downstream of the Gear pump? Thanks again in advance.
Rarely do you see a primer pump on a Detroit. It could be useful when changing filters, but you'd have to have a bleed port somewhere in the line because you won't push fuel past that gear pump that's not turning. Also, an in-line electric pump would hamper the gear pump sucking fuel from the tank, it would cause a restriction on the suction line. If it was running fine until you ran it out of fuel you likely sucked some dregs from the bottom of the tank. One thing you should check, pretty much all Detroit engines had a low cracking pressure check valve in the suction line from tank, it's typically fitted to the inlet port of the primary fuel filter, crap from the tank may be lodged in that check valve. Also, you should drain the debris from the bottom of the tank.
Thanks Willie59, sounds like a good idea to remove the electric pump completely. The cracking pressure check valve on the Primary filter canister just spins and I will replace. I've ordered the gear pump rebuild kit and will update thread once I repair.
Also if you haven't done so already look in the fuel tank for any debris moving around near the bottom because even if there isn't a screen on the suction side stuff can plug over the outlet to the pump, I had this happen on a 353 in a backhoe... took a while to figure out why the engine would start then stumble and die after a bit, turns out there were large flakes of rust in the fuel tank and when they would slosh around once in a while they would cover the fuel outlet and stop fuel flow.
I thought a primer pump for GM Diesel was a can of ether :falldownlaugh.
^^ Yep, but after the second can.... er.. cup of primer she is really knocking and the battery is giving up ;-)
I opened up the fuel line and blow it back a couple of times and was able to get the engine to run about 7 minutes so I'm assuming that there is debris in the fuel tank. Do I have to drop the tank completely to flush or is there other ways of cleaning?
I don't know on your clark, mine was on an old dynahoe I ended up removing the tank which was fairly simple. I would try to get a good look inside it first though... either get a snake camera or similar. Another thing I have done with machines where the tank is integral or very hard to remove is use a shopvac and smaller hose that won't suck flat and just drain the tank first then start fishing the the hose with the shopvac around inside, get the machine on a good tilt first if possible that way you can rinse stuff into a corner.
Pulled the fuel pump and noticed that the shaft drive from the engine is a square as is the shaft in the pump. What is missing? What mates these two square ended shafts?
One is male and the other female.. the parts fit together. Look on the ends, is it a break.. shinny/jagged??
Nothing looks broken, just two square males ends. I did find this coupling so I think that this is what is missing. http://dieselpro.com/detroit-diesel...mp-coupling-series-53-71-92.html#.WGqz_uTrtmA . I'm hoping I'm not missing anything else.
It has to be driven some how.. probably a good place to start.. It must have been in there to start with, cuz it was running.. it might have shattered after repeated starting tries?? OR you dropped it not knowing it was there.. Either way, your gonna need 1.. As long as the pump is off/out.. hook it up to a drill and see if it pumps.. don't run it dry for to long or it wont pump for long.. You could add some diesel fuel or veggie oil to the inlet..
The injectors themselves have a fine (I believe sintered metal) fuel screen built into them, if you somehow managed to get enough gunk past the filters, you may need to repair/replace the injectors....
There is a hollow square drive between the pump and the accessory drive. That is a common failure on the 53 series. Also check the restriction fitting at the cylinder head outlet. It is common that those are replaced with standard fuel fittings. Without the restricted fitting, fuel pressure will no build in the heads and supply full fuel flow to the injectors.
I agree with Vetech63. It needs that coupling to drive the pump. Many pumps have been pulled and that coupling dropped on to the ground with no one seeing it. Pump rebuild kits used to come with a new one. When rebuilding your pump take care with the seal on the drive end. If not sealed properly they will sometimes pump fine at idle and then suck air when you run at higher RPM speed effectively runing out of fuel. There are no other external parts for the pump other than the coupler. Your rebuild kit should have the gears, seals and all internal parts. They are a very simple pump.
Weather permitting this weekend, I can install the rebuilt pump back on the backhoe. Can someone confirm that the larger port on the Fuel Pump is the Inlet from the Strainer and the smaller is the outlet to the Secondary fuel filter? Thanks
Yes, the suction is always the bigger one, that I've seen. Did you flush out your tank? or are you going to run this on a temporary tank? I like to drain the tank, let the fuel sit, siphon off the top 2/3 into a clean bucket, rinse into another clean bucket and repeat until you don't get anymore gunk out. Prop the clean bucket of fuel up high enough to give a siphon a little force to wash the tank. You can use air pressure to prime the gear pump. It might even leak enough by to fill the filters eventually. Blow by mouth on the tank vent, or with a hose in the filler with a rag stuffed around it.
Make sure that the fuelline from the pump to the high pressure filter is capable of 60 PSI. I bought a Detroit one time with a two ply rubber hose on it that was collapsed on the inside. I have used 1/4" hydraulic hose for fuel line from the pump to the second filter with great sucess.
I look after a 453 in an old Pettibone Speedswing. The operators ran it out of fuel so often, and it was such a hassle to get going again afterward, that I ended up leaving an electric pump inline before the gear pump. The electric pump is wired to alligator clips on the leads. I only power it when I need to prime the gear pump after running out of fuel. The rest of the time it just sits there inline doing nothing. Works great. It's been there for 10 to 15 years.
I have a separate electric pump I'll use to sump the tank out with but need to plumb the gear pump with steel tubing and unsure of which port on the pump is which since the electric pump was installed. I'm assuming that the larger port on the gear pump is the inlet (suction) from the Primary strainer and the smaller port is plumbed to the secondary filter.
I missed my answer on your first line. Thanks for the info. That's what I thought.
Again, make sure you have the restricted fuel fitting on the cylinder head. It will be at the cylinder head, at the fuel outlet. The fuel line attached to it should run back to the fuel tank. The most common restricted fitting for the 53 series is the #70, it should be stamped on the end of the fitting.
If it ran fine with the wimpy electric pump, then the fuel fitting shouldn't be the problem, right? Anybody care to confirm the bigger line/port is the inlet?
Possibly yes, it depends on the pressure rating of the electric pump. I missed the part about it running fine before running out of fuel. Getting old :drinkup.........and yes, the large port on the manual pump is the suction side. Although they sell a right and left hand rotation fuel pump, which would cause an issue for sure if the wrong rotation pump is installed.
I will check tomorrow as to which fitting is which. I have two a 4-53s in the woods working that I can look at.
Installed the rebuilt gear fuel pump, removed the prev electric pump and plumbed the larger pump port to the Fuel Strainer outlet. Ran engine for 15 minutes without problem. Shut down and ran 5 more minutes without problem. Looks like problem solved. Thank all for the help.