Looking for part number 961122 Master cylinder repair kit. Or brake power cluster repair kit if going by the book. Possible superceded part numbers. Any help appreciated.
From what I've seen a good brake shop may be able to match it. Maybe Minnpar would have some parts too.
Another place that may be worth contacting: https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Repair-Cluster-Parts-Included/dp/B07LGGGKCD#descriptionAndDetails I have know idea of their knowledge but they do list parts for Power Clusters. A couple things to keep in mind is what is the bore of the hydraulic master cylinder and what is the diameter of the air chamber? Next what fluid is this going to be working with? DOT3 or mineral oil. Use the wrong fluid with the wrong seals and your brakes won't last long! I see these complete assemblies are sometimes being offered for $1,000 or more. And to think I probably tossed a few rebuildable ones in scrap trailer 15 years ago and the rebuild kits went in the trash!
There's definitely no brake shops where I'm at and even the repair shops are iffy. Especially if it wasn't something built 5 or less years ago. I'm pretty sure we cleaned out an semi trailer worth of old Cat and Clark Michigan loader parts when we sold the farm 20 years ago. No doubt what I need was probably in there still in the packaging. I was hoping the repair kit number had been superseded. Myself I don't think my loader is that old being from 1977. Most little things have been updated. This is the only part number I'm stumped on. I searched Minn Par but nothing came up. Maybe I'll have to give them a jingle.
Do you have a casting number off the master cylinder, often cast right in the side. What is the diameter of the bore a parts house may be able to match up some parts from that. Like I asked above what fluid is this going to be using, mineral oil or DOT3 brake fluid. One more what is the diameter of the air side of the cluster? And how about posting a picture of the assembly? I'm assuming you have the original one, if so what is wrong with it?
One example: https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Repai...ID=H3DQVPHV6AW43M2FDTJK#descriptionAndDetails Does your cylinder have these casting numbers? Wagner Repair Kit For Master Cylinder F1701 which has Casting Number FE1099: F33262 Do not know anything about this place but I would at least take the time to give them a call or send an email, looks like they could know what you are in need of!
I have another post i made a while back on here describing my issue. I just replied with an update on it a day or so before making this post. I haven't taken it apart and probably won't until I can find the repair kit. It still stops but doesn't hold. DOT 3 is what it uses. I'll see if I can add a link to my other post.
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Thank you kshansen! I'll see if I can find any numbers on it tomorrow.
Reading the other post where you say fluid is coming between the master and air side of power cluster makes me think you might be able to get it working with just the kit for the master cylinder. If you can find a number cast in the side of master there is a chance we might be able to figure out the bore of the master and find a kit to rebuild it. Biggest problem might be how good the bore is, hopefully it will be good enough to clean up with a brake hone and get it working again. Wish you had a NAPA dealer with some grey haired old guys behind the counter as you could probably find parts enough to rebuild the hydraulic end of that cluster for about $20.00. Problem now days if you don't have a make model and such for a 5 year or newer car most parts people have no idea of how to find things on their computers!
Only thing I could see on it was CAT USA on the reservoir And 6874 just above the cylinder part
Wonder if someone changed it in the past but if it's a Cat part might not be too hard to get a rebuild kit.
It's possible, here is an screen shot of my parts book I downloaded from Minnpar
Well here is what Cat used on a 950 Front end loader, two different power clusters depending on serial number: Biggest problem I'm having is not finding the size of the cylinder, air or hydraulic sides!
The bottom pic looks identical to what I have! Mine has a rod and another shorter rod with a male wire spade on it. When air is applied both those rods move out.
After looking at online pics of 5k3663 It's very close but mounts different.
That smaller rod with the wire spade is only there to work a dash light to let you know the master is over-stroking. That would let you know either you have air in the line from the master to the wheel brake or a leak either in the master or somewhere else in the system. And yes depending on where and who is using the power cluster they may have different mounting systems.
After doing some research I'm pretty sure that cylinder isn't a cat part. Mounting is completely different. I took a couple pics of the front cylinder and it's identical to the rear. Has FE 777 on it? Not sure if that means anything. I'm still gonna try and get the repair kit for my loader. I pretty sure the cylinders are both Clark Michigan parts.
Well I find this when I do a search for FE777: https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Master-Cylinder-FE777-Check/dp/B07LGH5QBW And this one: https://shop.industrialbrakeandclutch.com/BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-1-3-4-BORE-FE777-M284249.htm And one more: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wagner-Loc...e-Cylinder-w-Original-Cap-12105-/264321597642
Did a little more searching and contacted NAPA online and they say this cylinder should work: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NMAM2842?keywordInput=m2842 The guy I was contacting with did not know if there was a "Kit" for that cylinder that would fit your master but you could contact your local NAPA dealer for that information. Looks like this one may have more ports than you might need but they could be plugged if not needed. And $223.00 for a new cylinder is not too bad.
Well I can say from working on heavy equipment for forty years that while I never worked on a Terex with air over hydraulic brakes I did see those power clusters on many Hough Loaders and even Off-Highway 65 ton Mack trucks and even a few Cat loaders. As for being Clark Michigan parts the only way they are Clark Michigan parts if Clark bought them from Wagner and put Clark Michigan labels on the boxes! Just do like I did and open up Google and type in just FE777 and hit enter and I bet one of the top three things you will see says: Wagner Master Cylinder Part FE777 1.75 Inch Bore No Check Valve: FE777
Wouldn't the GL or CL on the upper right of the OP's pic. identify who made it?
Not sure where in Minnesota you are at but I have had good luck with Brake Equipment Warehouse in Minneapolis on some pretty old car stuff and I know I have seen heavy equipment parts in the machine shop. https://brakeandequipment.com/
After looking i found the FE777 very common. And the Wagner repair kit is WAG-F8449 https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Repair-WAG-F8449-Cylinder-Diameter/dp/B07LGGVM63
Thanks everyone who has helped. I'm gonna order 2 repair kits and I'll update how things go.
Just be sure to compare parts from original master to those in the kits. I believe there are some of those masters that have a "check valve" on side of them for some applications. I don't see one shown in the picture that is on the site you posted from E-bay. Check valve would be the the item the arrow is pointing toward in the above picture.
Yup, I noticed the 2 different kits. The kit with check valve for FE777 is WAG-F5350. I'd say it's probably better to order the kit with the check valve just incase.
To be honest I'm not recalling what the difference in applications that require the check valve as compared to those without the check valve! My best suggestion would be to put in what you take out unless you can contact Wagner or dealer for factory information on the reason for them.
I called powerbrake-drivetrain about the check valve. Was absolutely no help. All he wanted to do is sell me an new unit. I might pull the front off and disassemble that since they are the same as far as I can tell. Then I'll know if it has the check valve.
Check valve was used to hold residual pressure in the lines so as to provide a full stroke in drum brake applications. In this way the lines stayed full instead of all the fluid returning to the master cylinder. The valve was removed in clutch applications as it wasn’t desirable to keep the release bearing under pressure to prevent undue wear. I hope this makes sense.
I'm partial to just taking it apart and heading to a local NAPA store. Sometimes if you are lucky the parts counter guy knows what he is talking about. As others have mentioned many master cylinders are common among manufacturers. I ended up buying an aftermarket replacement automobile master cylinder for my older tractor. Turns out they were identical, but the automobile version was 1/3 the price of the tractor version. Prior to finding the aftermarket unit I was going to head into napa with the master cylinder guts and try to find a comparable piston seal kit. Best of luck!
Had a chance to pull the back cylinder off today. It definitely has the check valve. The only thing I seen was the spring seal or cap is cracked. Witch buts up against the piston end with the valve. Everything else didn't look to bad. I cleaned everything up and reinstalled it but it's exactly the same. I took a video of the brake chamber rod coming out and you can tell the cylinder isn't holding pressure. Working by myself I'm limited on my abilities to watch what is actually happening.
I'd replace the seals since you already had it apart. Check the bore for damage. If the piston, seals and bore are intact it should pump fluid. I forget the details, but it could be leaking off slowly at any joint and or at a wheel cylinder.
I'm sure the crack in the spring seal cap thing is probably the culprit. I can't see anything else that would cause it to not hold pressure.
If the crack you are referring to is what I'm seeing in the above picture the I would say it should be pretty obvious as the amount of fluid coming out would be leaving quite a puddle with each application!
That pic is to show what I thought was the CAT part. But you can see fe777 and C or 847 poorly but it's there. No crack in the casting. The crack is in the spring cap seal face. Assembly order goes, rubber washer, check valve, spring, cap seal, piston then washer and clip. The seal on the piston i believe is only there to keep fluid in. I think the spring cap seal is what actually does the work. At least looking at it from how the fluid is in the casting. I ordered 2 kits so once they show up ill take better pictures of everything to post.
Yes the seal on the piston is there to keep the fluid in the master cylinder. The cup that is between the piston and the spring is the one that pushes the fluid out of the master to the wheel cylinder(s). Now if you could get someone else to push and hold down on the brake while you watch through the filler cap hole in the reservoir you might be able to see the fluid moving in the master cylinder. At the first application of the brakes you would probably see a short squirt of fluid coming out a hole that would be just in front of the cup then if the cylinder was working right that flow of fluid would stop. But if the cup is not sealing to the cylinder wall you would see a steady movement of the fluid till air chamber reached the end of it's stroke. I tried finding a video on Youtube but all I find are for a much more complicated dual master cylinder and trying to watch thyem would probably cause more confusion!
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If you go back to post #14 and look at the second image for the 5K3663 cylinder it might help to understand how it works. Actually I posted a link just in the last message!
Parts came in on Monday. I finally had time to fix her today Here are some pics
Here is the crack in the spring cap seal. This was what was causing my 5 seconds of hold then release issue
http://www.gemcodirect.com/default....os1BfR28An9&user_id=&Page=order.htm&Frame=441
Gemco was a great place to deal with! Thanks everyone who commented and helped!
Happy you got her back in action! Nicely done
Always nice when a plan come together!