This is my first post. I do not have any experience operating heavy machinery. I have tried to read and watch instructional videos as well as watch videos of work similiar to what I need done. I have also spoken to many people that I know with varying levels of experience and knowledge, as well as various businesses. I recently bought some rural, wooded, undeveloped land. Among the first things I need to do with my new property are clear a driveway and building site. The options that I am aware of are to either hire someone with the heavy equipment, or to rent the equipment and do it myself. There is no marketable timber on the property. There are far too few trees on the property of desirable diameter. So no, I cannot get someone to clear trees and pay me. Just about everyone that I have spoken to has told me that they recommend an excavator to do the clearing of the trees and rocks, and that pushing whole trees over with roots and all is better than trying to remove stumps. At the start, I was supposed to be able to borrow some equipment, but that fell through. My aim is to save as much money on this as possible. I am looking to start an interactive dialog with this thread to consider my options. Thank you.
I would use a dozer for this project personally but if you have no experience I wouldn't recommend it because it's not an easy piece to run. If you're in norther california ill do it for you haha.
I understand you wanting to do it yourself. If you had equipment to borrow that would be cheaper but if you have to rent and pay for fuel and you don't have any experience in the long run it would be cheaper to hire someone to at least clear the trees. with the right machine and experience it could be done fairly quick with less cleanup afterwards. Once the trees are gone you could rent some smaller equipment to do landscaping and rock removal.
If your gonna do it yourself, i'd see if i could rent a cat excavator w/ the thumb attachment , that will make life a lot easier for you . It will also give you some seat time and a little experience with the machine . After your done clearing the land , you can takle the foundation hole . It would be advisable to have someone there checking the grades for you while doing this , unless you are capable of doing it yourself. Just be careful while operating and always be aware of your surroundings, watch out for any power lines above and water and power lines below.
How about a picture of the proposed driveway site? without it we're shooting in the dark. At least get a bid for having the work done and compare that to your costs. Depending on the distances involved trucking may make up a big chunk of the cost, so consolidating as much work into one time will save you money, unless you have cheaper options, say a local guy with a skidsteer who can do some smaller jobs cheaper.
Since I need a driveway and building site I thought that if I did a split of rent and hire that it would make sense to rent and clear the trees myself, then hire for the grading and finishing. I don't know which would take an experienced operator longer, clearing trees or grading and finishing, but I figured grading and finishing would be more of an experience thing. I figure the trees are basically demolition requiring less skill so long as I watch what I am doing and don't tear out hydraulic hoses, break windows, bust a track etc. I'm not worried about cleanup. As long as the piles are out of the way, I can chainsaw the tree piles at my leisure. My budget to do this is very limited and once its spent, there is no magical stash of money so I need to figure out what all my costs will be upfront. Once that money is gone, that's it. So if I hired to do the bulk of the work, there would be no money left over for a small cleanup machine. The land is undeveloped. That means there are no power lines, water pipes, or any other utility hazards to worry about. There is a power line that runs just to the property on the edge, but once the machine is past that, there is nothing but raw mother nature. Also, there will be no foundations to dig, at least I don't think so. It will be a mobile home or something for the first several years that I live there till I can save up enough money to do more. If you literally mean to rent a Caterpillar, I can tell you right now that is WAY too expensive. Cat rentals are astronomically expensive. A one day rental is more than the cost of hiring a contractor for a week. I know, I checked on that a good while ago. I agree about the thumb attachment for the trees. Yes, I will provide photos as soon as I can. It snowed recently and I'd like to wait till that melts before driving north to the property. I can provide an overhead from Google Earth including a rough sketch showing an overview. I had already gotten bids once. I lost everything to a bad hard drive. I did not feel that confident from the first 3 contractors that I had come out and give bids. I also lost the quotes on rental prices. I will try to get those soon as well. I agree that everything should happen all together. Renting equipment comes with both daily fees and delivery and pickup fees. So I will want to coordinate things so everything happens with daylight and that I use the rental for the full day's allotment of operating hours on the gauge. Only then can I spare the time to let the machine sit till the next day. I will need to pre-source and price any fill or gravel including delivery options and costs. Here is the overhead from Google Earth... Thank you, this is a good start to the sort of discussion I was hoping for with this thread.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but any way you go is going to cost money. Heavy equipment is expensive by nature and repairs are costly. How much can you afford to spend on a dozer or track hoe? Do you know what you can get for the amount of money you have available? It sounds like you are against renting or hiring out, so you will have to find something that will hold up. Good luck, you will have your work cut out for you.. P.S Being a decent wrench will help. Regards, CD
I do not feel comfortable discussing my funds. In my experience, the moment a dollar figure is given, people fixate on how to spend it... all of it... as if it were an invitation to an imaginary shopping spree, and not taking into account that there must be money left over for other things. Very counter productive. I am not against renting or hiring. I do have enough funds to hire for the entire thing, but the funds I would have left over would be suffocatingly tight. I understand that be it renting or hiring that heavy equipment is expensive, but it is necessary to do what must be done. That is a given and is understood. That said, I am looking to figure out how to get done what needs doing by the heavy equipment as frugally as I can. I came here for the benefit of knowledge and experience I lack so I can educate myself, reason through my options, and whittle as much off the expense for the heavy machinery tasks as I can manage in an effort to preserve as much of my available funds for the stuff that comes after. I am NOT trying to buy used if that is what you are implying. That would be an endless money pit.
Maybe you should look into a Kobelco ED150. Trackhoe and dozer. I would not consider buying new, as you have minimal experience and the machine will incur damage. Clearing and grubbing is nasty and whatever you buy is going to get banged up. I would imagine you could buy a used ED150 for somewhere in the fifties. Good Luck, CD
I just thought that if the trees are removed properly it is easier to finish the job with a skid steer and proper attachments. If you are developing your yard site you will find so many uses for a skid steer you will want to own one. I couldn't live without mine for gravel moving landscaping and snow removal . I just keep buying more attachments. A 287B with a root grapple will move a lot of trees in a hurry if they're not too big.
Either your Cat Rental store is very expensive or your local excavating contractors are very cheap. I can rent a 320 from my local Cat rental for $800 a day...:cool2
I think you misunderstand, I'm not buying. Not new, not used, not buying. I will rent or hire (or borrow if another opportunity comes along).
I will keep the skid steer in mind for such work then. Thanks.
I agree. Whatever excavator you rent see if it comes with a backfilling dozer blade on the front. You can get a lot cleared and graded with that little blade. They are starting to put them on some of the models a few sizes up from the Minis now like a 314 I believe which can Prob get the job done with ease. Good luck.
Yes, I misunderstood. Good look borrowing equipment.
Maybe I'm remembering the interval wrong like a week not a day, but I think it is the size of machine the salesperson recommended. They were stupendously big. Far more than necessary, yet I don't recall spotting anything much smaller on the lot. Now that I think of it, I was told that I was responsible for any damage too. Meanwhile United Rentals offers a good coverage plan, a larger variety of equipment to rent, and much lower rental fees.
hire a professional i dont know what line of work your in but how would you like someone to borrow a tool you use to make money to feed your family, beat the crap out of it then return it with $2k worth of damage that could have been avoided with an experianced operator ? to top it off make a mess all over the property and the grading crew will charge twice as much because the place looks like a war zone...... btw, renting or borrrowing you still have to fix damage and demolition and clearing has the most potential for avoidable damage. sorry to sound harsh but just hire a professional, I refuse to clean up after someone tried to do a job themselves in hopes of saving money and I know I am not the only contractor out there that will turn down work in instances like this...... even if you do find someone to do the rest of it they'll charge double what it would have cost in the first place. again, don't mean to be rude but that's just the way it is. ontop of that EVERY job is different there is no way to tell you how to do it by a google earth image..... hence the necessity of the professional operator edit, oh' and if the rental yard that deals with equipment EVERY DAY thinks you need a larger machine than you think you do ........ well i dont need to finish that sentence do I ? lol pj
A good experienced operator, with a eye for the big picture, can at times do multiple things at once. If that makes sense. What I am trying to say is if someone has the overall layout of the finished property, he may be able to move more or less from one spot or another, and end up with the same result you are looking for, with potentially moving less material than someone of lesser experience. Maybe you have someone to help guide you along with your project that you have not mentioned or that I missed... Just throwing in my .02 worth. Someone else also made mention that it is often cheaper to pay up front to get the work done, than it is to pay someone to come in and clean up the mess. Not trying to be rude about it.... just offering my opinion. Another possible option is maybe checking with your local IUOE and see if they have a training program where they have a experienced instructor bring a small group out to your property to use it as a training ground of sorts..... Just a thought Good luck
I tend to agree with other members about hiring someone to do the job . I'm trying to get a better feel for the job looking at the picture . Just guessing property acreage around 5 acres and new driveway 700 to 800 feet long ? Looking at the curves in the drive leads me to think the ground is a little hilly . We would send a dozer to a job like that to clear the trees , build the road , and level off what's needed for the home site . Should be pretty strait forward for an operator on a D6 size dozer . Good luck with the new property .
Well said.
This is also going to sound harsh but many times people have asked me the same basic questions. As a contractor , I get tired of people wasting my time always trying to " save money " by asking me how to due some thing that I do to make a living. I E put food on my table. Now why would I want to talk myself out of a job. Now , once the said home owner has gone and done his thing ( screw crap up , you know any one can do what we do ) he calls me again. Now I know he has no more money because he wasted it on rentals but wants me to come in and clean up his mess. Why ? He's broke and it'll take twice the work and money. What's the incentive ? OP , I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm picking on you but, you are basically asking us how to take food out of another mans mouth. That said , there is a lot of experience and help here. Lots to learn. Just understand what you are asking us to do. Good luck , best wishes. Rant over.
That's exactly what I said to use earlier. Couldn't agree more it will be the best and fastest equipment for the job if you hire a good dozer operator.
If $$ is a make or break on the project, why not do it a little at a time ?, A lot of work got done before they invented a dozer and excavator. A 4x4 pickup, chainsaw, and shovel will take you a long ways just not as fast.
I've done jobs that would have been done faster, easier and for less money if the homeowner hadn't "started" them before I got there. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you've already said that you don't care about cleanup. I can only read this as you're not concerned about making a mess. If you have no experience, it's unlikely that you'll save any money. Education costs money, no matter how you acquire it.
If I was in your shoes here is what I would do. 1. Go to you local hardware store and buy some marking tape ( plastic tape that comes in assorted bright colors). Next go to your property and layout the driveway and pad for the home by tying the tape onto trees that will be on the outside of the drive and house pad. Next spend some time looking around and making sure that this is what you want your drive to look and how you want the house to sit. 2. Breakout the chainsaw and weedeater and cut down all trees and brush that fall within the boundaries of the house pad and drive. 3. Go to your local rental place and rent a small towbehind wood chipper ( one of those 20hp gas jobs will work best) and spend a weekend cutting and chipping everything you can. Anything to big to go in the chipper gets tossed to the side. 4. Now go to your equipment rental place and get a mini-ex ( JD 50 or cat303) with a thumb and dig out the stumps and stack them outside the construction line to be delt with later. 5. Return the mini and rent the biggest CTL they have. Strip the topsoil and stack it NEATLY. Do not just push it into a nasty pile with holes to collect water and turn everything into a sloppy mess. Then cut the pad and drive to grade. Don't try and rent a excavator to knock down trees unless you have expierence doing so or want to find out how much those glass windows in the front cost.
What size is your lot? I've done alot of clearing with a CTL with a tough grapple and a CAT E70B (15K machine). I've done 5 acres of mature pines and 10 years worth of underbrush in 4 months while working a full time 40hr a week job. Bought the CTL and borrowed the excavator. (Ex's are very dangerous for tree removal in my inexperienced opinion)
I know that some of these comments seem harsh but they are the voice of experience. I work on a lot of rental machines and see home owners get themselves in trouble all the time. "oh this looks easy on t.v." is not the way to get the job done. You have to pay for damages no matter what. Equipment protection only kicks in if you reach 50% of the machine cost in damages. FTV Fire Theft , and vandalism only. If you destroy it, you are still on the hook. Operating/ home building are not tasks you can just jump into. I just had a customer that thought if he had a service call everyday then it was a free day. He was doing the same job you are. 90% of the calls were him tearing the machine up since he did no know what he was doing. He got a heck of a bill at the end. I say hire it out, get it done and behind you. You can always do other things with your time once its finished.
Some people must have some really generous friends to borrow equipment. There is no way I would let someone without any experience operating borrow my 13 year old 334 mini-ex much less my 321DL prime mover.:cool2
You've gotta have friends that trust you'll fix any and every problem it may have. Including a good pressure washing job. And most important, friends with equipment that aren't making a living with their equipment. I guess it different out in the boonies where all ya got to do is do a favor to get a favor.
That is a different situation nhillin, it's like borrowing a lawnmower from your neighbor as long as he's not in the lawn care business. I let friends in the business borrow my equipment to fill in when they need it from time to time (as they have done the same for me) or load their truck with my machine in a pit if they need a couple of loads and don't want to move theirs. However, like you said I trust them and the most important thing is they have the money to fix whatever they break.
I don't let anyone borrow my equipment they can rent it for 5$ more on the hour then I get to run it myself.