I have a 85 Kenworth w900 with Fuller 13speed RR with 2 sp Rears [high/low], that will not go into gear while running, after sitting a couple of months last winter. The clutch/clutch brake is adjusted within specs. I tried bumping the starter a few times in high gear, spraying some pb blaster into the spring areas of the clutch and to no avail thus far. I can push in the clutch pedal, and it feels normal. With the pedal pushed in [before the clutch brake makes contact], I can reach in the inspection hole and rattle the disc near the flywheel. The throwout bearing slides on the input shaft like it should and applies the right amount of pressure to the clutch brake. I would appreciate someone smarter than me to chime in and give me some good advice so I can get this thing to work properly. Thanks in advance! I am not sure why the above last sentences are in "strikethrough texts" but I did intend for that text to show. Thanks
So, it sounds like your pilot bearing has seized. Thats a bummer, no way to lube it up without removing.
the intermediate plate could be stuck. If you can get it started in gear push the clutch in and give it some throttle it might release.
Maybe release the brakes, transmission in low gear, and give er’ a good jerk?
I have a 980 loader on site with a log grapple on it. Could that be of good use to free this up? I can also get it to drive after I get rolling, I could put it in gear without pushing the clutch pedal in. Would that work to free it up? Thanks for y'alls replies.
Do you have a diagram to where the pilot bearing is? That is not the throwout bearing right?
Funwithfuel probably meant to say release bearing, with all due respect. The release bearing could be rusted to the transmission input shaft. Watch this video to see what all the parts look like.
Watch this one, too.
Yes, I saw this one. I know what everything is now. The throw out bearing slides to the clutch brake when clutch pedal is pressed. If it was bad, it wouldn't slide at all correct? The plate that I can move/rattle when the clutch pedal is in is the plate after the intermediate plate.
Rokman, already stated that he had sprayed blaster up into the pressure plate. By his description, i believe he is moving the intermediate plate separate of the pressures plate. He hadn't said anything about the pedal or linkage binding, sticking or hanging up. I stand on my original thought with the pilot. The simplest solution i can come up with is leave the trans in top gear high range. Using an engine barring tool, rotate the engine to force the pilot to "break free" This will only buy you time and make it where you can get her serviced. NOTE*** A seized pilot, loosened up can damage your input shaft, or in the worse case act like a sprague and "grab" the input shaft when you don't want it. Everyone has brought valid points, and im not discounting any of them, i just believe that, based on what was said, this is the answer.
Makes sense.
would it be easier to 'break free' towing it in reverse [in gear] with the 980 Loader-at least a few feet, back and forth? Is there anything helpful the 980 can do that would diagnose or fix or get the truck unstuck? I can drive it once I get the truck moving [ie put it in gear without using clutch]. I will not be taking it into any "repair service shops", I cannot afford to spend that kind of money and the truck is on my property now.
I don't know what engine you have. Most older big bore engines have a slot in the flywheel housing that will allow you to pry against the ring gear to turn the engine. Newer ones will have a round hole on the face that you can pop out and place a pinion for easier turning with a ratchet. You just don't want to try to turn off a crank hub bolt or anything like that.
Cat 3406b
The "plate" I can rattle is the skinnier of the plates I believe. I think the only time I can rattle it is when the clutch pedal is pushed in.
Should have a slot on the bottom that you can see the ring gear through. You can pry the ring around through that hole. Make sure all your drive brakes are adjusted and holding, chock the wheels if you can and have someone watch while you're barring the engine. The torque is gonna go somewhere, either braking the pilot loose or finding the brake that won't hold. I haven't suggested using the starter, guys have knocked teeth off the ring gear doing that. So.. keep that in mind.
That says the disc is free of the plate. You should have a "floating " mid or intermediate plate. That should be free as well to move forward and back a little
Dragging it back n forth with the wheel loader might work if you could keep the drives "planted" and not lose traction.
How about if I tow it up a gradual long hill [off road] then I can put it into gear and drive downhill, if it has not freed up by then. How about putting the trans in Reverse [if I can] then towing it up hill? In other words, it is on a logging trail driveway at the base of the hill with nose of truck facing downhill [to give you an image of what my situation is --I am in a rural area. The driveway/logging road connects directly to a highway.
Sounds dangerous and unpredictable. The big takeaway is, the trans and clutch need to come out so you can replace a $50 pilot bearing . Even if you free it up, it can seize again while in motion. Then what? Plow through traffic? I get the need to get it "in service" but the risks are significant.
Giv’er is what I say. That’s how we did it in Mason County. No, in Mason County I think we “send it”. Either way, She might break loose. I bet it squeals like a pig once that happens if the pilot bearing theory holds true.
RokMan sounds like my kind of people. PNW gypo logger, maybe a gravel hauler, dangerous and unpredictable. I can respect that. A dying breed. A relic of the past, just like the old-growth of the peninsula.
Pfftt. Who needs a clutch anyway? Start it in low or better yet park on a downgrade so you can roll and put it in gear, float the gears, time your approach to stop signs and red lights to avoid having to stop, pop it in neutral when you arrive... /s Sarcasm over now. I'd try to free it as suggested then get it to a shop to get it taken care of as soon as possible.
Should I have the clutch pedal down and in low or higher gear when I move it with the 980-- while trying to free it up? Forward or reverse?
The reason why I am dragging my feet on the "Tow it to the service shop and pay big $$ to have it done" bit is , it did this a couple of years ago after sitting for a couple of months and I believe it got unstuck after I bumped the starter over while in gear [just once]. Obviously, it is more stuck this time, but I never had any issues with it in those two years, until now. I just don't think it is pragmatic to spend $5,000 to have the shop "unstick" my seized clutch bearing/ bushing, if I can do it off road on my property---besides, it is a major hassle on top of that $$. And this is why I reach out to you big brained fellas who have been down this road back in the day---when you were 'dangerous and unpredictable'--LOL Does a pilot bearing that is going bad make any odd sounds before it goes bad while the clutch pedal is pushed in or anything?
I am not trying to bust your chops, but how certain are you that it is the Pilot bearing? If you are absolutely certain it is, and that it needs to be replaced, then that is what I will have to do, but it would suck bigtime if it was not the Pilot Bearing---100% certain?
"PNW gypo logger, maybe a gravel hauler, dangerous and unpredictable" For the record, I am not 'dangerous'. I am pragmatic. I am methodical. I do things with control and I don't like to lose control---that would be reckless and put other peoples safety at risk. Every dollar I had available has gone into this truck, not to pimp it out with **** to make it look cool and serves no useful advantage, but to make the truck mechanically sound and safe. I just spent 5 grand on 10 new virgin 24.5's. The truck does not look like the trucks you guys are rolling in--but after I am done with the absolute priority improvements, when I have extra $$, I will make cosmetic improvement, like your trucks are---I look forward to that day. Safety is all I can afford at this time!
Im not there, I'm going off the information you have provided. Bottom line, clutch fully disengaged (pedal to the floor) there are 3 things holding your input shaft to the crankshaft. 2 of those are the driven discs in the clutch pressure plate, the other is the pilot. You've stated that you can wiggle the driven disc. That removed the clutch from the equation. You haven't mentioned anything about the pedal falling to the floor or impossible to push down, that takes linkage out. What else is there? Heres an idea. Spray blaster up on the input shaft, rotate the engine a little and do it again. If you have access to Kroil, that would be better. Either way, let the blaster do it's job. It wicks everywhere, looking for dry spots. It may eventually find the pilot but it's a long road to get there. Good luck
Appreciate that tip. So no more spraying into the clutch springs and instead try some on Input shaft where the throw out bearing slides? This was the first winter I parked the truck facing downhill. Maybe water got on the input shaft and wicked down to the Pilot bearing...Same principle applies for Kroll or pen oil I am guessing.
Anywhere,really. As long as you got the metallic button clutch vs them nasty ol fibrous ones, the oil won't do you no harm. Just soak the snot out of it.
Thanks brother!
How much have you paid "FunWithFuel" for them to take the time to write up their experience and knowledge ?
Yup. Trucks are a money pit. Ok, then. I can respect that. But, that transmission is coming out, either way. In a safe and pragmatic way, of course.
Pilot bearing, input shaft, input shaft bearing, probably a clutch, flywheel grind, cross shaft bushings, maybe a U-joint. It’s going to be heartbreaking, painful and expensive. Maybe discover the engine rear main seal is leaking, too. Just as well fix that, while you are in there. It never ends.
Hold on, fellers. I gotta step out. The parts guy just delivered more lights. I’m not done pimping this Pete. There is room for four more light cannons on the headache rack and I need to finish polishing the moose bumper.
No comprende, Senor!
I would love to have the cabbage to have all that bling, but even if I did, the "Texas bumper" would be ripped off from a stump, since most of my travels are on off road usage! More power to you.
And I will do the work myself to learn it anyway. No worries. I wasn't ripping you on the Dangerous comment, I know how it is. I just wanted to clarify to the HEF Ombudsmen out there, thinking I was some loose cannon and all that stuff. Of course, I am not [lol] and I know you get it. The truck has been great for me since I bought it 20 yrs ago. I did all the work/repairs except the NC Machinery "inj pump rebuild" with "proprietary seals,etc. The rig has paid for itself many times over, I am not complaining at all, I just don't like to be at the mercy of repair shops after a tow---that gets way more spendy than any repairs and parts list you mentioned. U still da man! All you guys are alright and appreciate you taking the time to opine and comment, etc.
I am sorry FUNWITHFUEL! I didn't want to come across as crass and unappreciative to your time and knowledge, by just posting "Thanks Brother!" I gotta give you more appreciation than that. Thanks for taking the time to send some of your impeccable knowledge my way on this issue! I don't ever expect people to drop what they were doing for anything that has to do with me, nor do I like to waste peoples time to help me out in a bind. "TIME" is something that the older we get, the faster it flies by and the less we have of it! I used to say, "Time is money" and that still holds true, but now that I am older, time is more valuable than any money, and day, all day, and at the end of the day, as they say! Thanks again brother! I will let you know how things worked out and all that stuff --when I do have a chance to fix the issue. Then my truck will be turning heads again! LOL [with a big ass'd 30 yd demo box and white budd rims--I do have LED's across the board, that is a start!]. I am gunning for you now, coaldust! lol Kick some more ass fellas!
I agree, next time you have about a week free, I would polish that Moose bumper also...I would even put some hauling gigs on hold to get that bad boy shining! Funny ****! Thanks for your input appreciate it!