I need help reading & interpreting civil engineering plans and also how to perform estimating and take-offs. What is a good resource for learning this skill? Has anyone heard of or attended the Construction Estimating Institute[/B]? I think they are out of Florida?
Miocklear1, I haven't heard of the Construction Estimating Institute before you mentioned it here. It looks like they offer a range of education, it would be interesting to know the quality of the education they are selling. At this point the only advice I can give is how I have developed my estimating skills both for building and civil construction: First I attended Auburn University and obtained a bachelors degree in Building Science - this gave me the foundations of setting up a formal bid and what all is involved in preparing a formal bid package. Being a third generation contractor, those 4 years opened my eyes up to many different aspects of the construction industry I haven't experienced before. It was time well spent. After I learned the foundations of preparing a detailed estimate and bid, I went into business for myself. This brought about the most important education you can get, the "on the job training" or "school of hard knocks" education. You will win some and lose some, just make sure you win more than you loose. This type of education is the most expensive...:cool2 I have won and I have lost. Estimating civil projects takes more experience and knowledge of how the working drawings are to become a finished project, compared to a building project IMO. On the other hand, civil estimating can be less involved (time wise) as far as the amount of line items and the amount of take-off required. I don't know your level of knowledge in the civil construction world, give us a little background about yourself.
On this side of the pond it's called Quantity Surveying. this crowd do a distance course......................................... http://www.salford.ac.uk/courses/quantity-surveying2
I come from a military background, have a B.A. in Criminal Justice. I have helped my father as an operator/driver on and off for a while. I have just recently started getting in the area of managing the business. So I don't really have and training in civil engineering or blueprint reading/estimating/take-off. I was looking at taking some classes through a community college but there are none within a reasonable driving distance.
If you want to be an estimater you are going to have to become skilled in reading blue prints. That means being able to pick up on all the little notes on them, which can become confusing. Learn how to read the dimensions so as to become skilled in preparing an accurate take off of cuts, fills, material to be placed, or what ever you are going to be dealing with. When dealing with cuts and fills be aware of the fluff and shrinkage factors. Not dealing with both of those will kill you. Once the take off is complete apply the unit costs to the quantities. Last, learn how to do a very detailed bid so the customer will fully understand exactly what you are going to do for how much money. A good estimate is no good without a well done bid to go with it. As far as classes from a community college or some seminar promising to make a top notch estimater out of you in no time flat, I would be very suspecious of the whole thing.
I run all the estimates for my small business. I graduated bottom of my class from a local rural high school. Followed in a family business with hands on experience. Started at the very bottom. I'm 54 y/o with over 35 years experience at one company. I'vew been in sales/estimating since the early 80's. I am the president, the estiamtor, the draftsman, clean the toilets and mop the floors. While my business doesn't do civil engineering projects, construction is construction. Some of the same principles hold true. Some are unique to civil engineerng. In my humble opinion, most construction businesses fail because they don't know how to estimate overhead expenses. Fixed costs are easy to apply. If you have 2500 feet of pipe and pipe costs $ per foot, it's hard to loose money on pipe. Labor, hours of equipment operation are harder to estimate correctly. I'd say if you don't how many equipment hours it takes to cut or fill a yard of dirt, you better work for someone else. But, back to overhead expenses. Most businesses can forecast annual overhead expenses. But, how do you apply those costs to one project that may last only a few weeks? Is it a percentage of the total bid? Or is it xxx $$ per day, based on time? If the ratio of job costs, and time spent on the job is consistant, then it shouldn't be an issue. My business is all over the map. A 1/4 million dollar job could take months, or it could only take days. Just remember this, you must pay overhead expenses before you tally up profits.
It would probably be best if you had someone to work with that has the experience and guide you. Education is great but the practical experience is priceless. I've had many new engineers that I worked with and when I was done with them they were either going to go dig a ditch or go to the plan room. If your willing to do that, there is a great future. This is my just my experience and hope the best for ya.
Print reading courses are much easier to come by than estimating courses. Check with local AGC Chapters/Plan Rooms/ Builders Exchange/ Community Colleges. I have never been to any of the CEI courses, though I plan on doing so one day when time allows as I have researched them and feel that one could benefit greatly from attending. That said, I also believe that it would be useless without a practical base to build on. Impact makes a huge point, a portion of effective estimating is the takeoff generation process (quantifying proposed work), but that is only a piece of the puzzle. One really needs to understand how a civil job is going to be built in order to fully quantify the work, and the cost thereof. If you know your business' work then begin by breaking the prints down into work phases (your proposal should mirror that breakdown) Mobilization, Erosion Control, Clearing/Grubbing, Topsoil Strip, Cut/Fill, Storm, Sewer, Water, Concrete, Paving Ect. Now go through the plans (and spec book) and find all the info pertaining to each phase, quanitify units, and run the cost. Check local DOTs and Municipalities for bid invitations, pick up a bid packet and start combing through it. Typically they furnish line items with quantities for the purpose of uniform bidding as well as general conditions, special conditions, and work/material standards (they will also cross reference other standards because they are lazy) for the job. The breakdown in the bid schedule will help to give you a general idea of the various units of measure commonly used to quantify various work items. Generate a bid DON'T turn it in, then check the bid results after the bid opening and see how you measured up on price. I would advise doing this as many times as you can. TDOT has a bid letting almost every month and all of the necessary info for this practice is available online for free as well as average unit pricing from years past. One of the most important lessons I have learned the hard way is the one that Impact refers to: you have to consider what is going on with your company while the job is being built. How many General Liability/Work Comp/Shop Lease/Association Dues/Utility Bills/Payments on unbillable support equipment are going to have to be made during the duration of the project, that has to be added into each line item or your "profit" will never show its beautiful face. Another important point of estimating effectively is penpointing your production forcast, and carefully tracking it to assure your phase durations are accurate. Estimating ties directly into project management. Finally, if you go nuts and begin to make a name for your company, DO NOT get sucked in to the price wars that will always be in front of you. Our industry business model is the stupidest business model you can find. While successful consumer products are marked up 600%-900% industry standard (which we all pay) you will be hard pressed to find a civil contractor working on a greater 20% margin and they are doing so with exponentially greater expenditures/exposure than other businesses. Find high margin work or sit at home, there is no worse feeling than having a 10 mil year and spending 11 mil to do it. I did our company's very first bid 9 years ago, struggled through it, got the job, and the struggle has never stopped, but I can now put together a razor sharp 300 line item bid in 2 days. You can do it aswell. Also, MS Excel will work at the beginning, but the moment you can afford a decent Digitizing/Estimating/PM Software BUY IT! Feel free to contact me if I can help you any further, I have been where you are.