I have a 1984 gmc brigadier dump truck I an getting coolant in the oil I have done a combustion test for the head gasket it was good and I presser check the oil cooler And it was good Is there any other place that coolant can get in the oil Thanks in advance
I would pull the pan and look for a pin hole in a cylinder wall.
I seem to recall the 53s had wet liners. Maybe and O ring.
Do you guys think a block sealer would work for a short term fix Fro Like maybe 100hrs
No!
I have no idea if this applies to a 1984 53 series, but I had an early 1990s 92 series that had a stud start coming out up in the valve cover area, the stud carried the valve bridge or something in that area, and water was coming out around it and getting in the oil.
Pull the inspection covers for the airbox on the sides of the block and check for coolant leaking from above the liner ports. 53’s and 92’s had wet liners above the port area and if the o-rings leaked, coolant would get into the airbox, be drawn into the cylinders and burned. Also, first check the airbox drains for coolant dripping
I don't think I saw anyone mention the injector tubes in the head, unless I'm forgetting more than I recall they use the same copper tubes with an oring around the top as the 71's used.
Guess I was remembering right:
Air compressor. Bad Bob
Any things possible! At first I was thinking a bad water pump but after some checking see that the 53's have belt drive water pumps unlike the 71's and 92's. Any sign of oil in radiator? Guess I should have asked "How much antifreeze?" A couple drops of a couple Gallons?
Thanks for all the replies I am waiting for the snow to melt To get back on it It happened quick like within a hour And there was a lot of it in the oil like a gallon plus On oil in the coolant
I believe those engine also have oil coolers, bolted into the block that are cooled by the coolant in the water jackets. They should always give you oil in the coolant, not coolant in the oil, but something to be aware of.
Too many things can cause coolant in the oil. We need to find out if this is happening under pressure or not. Drain the engine oil completely and leave out the drain plug. Fill the radiator with water and leave the radiator cap off. You do not need to run the engine at this point. Look for water coming out of the oil drain. If you start seeing water from there, then we need to find at what level in the engine it may be coming from. Find a hose or water jacket plug below the cylinder head, as close to the block deck as you can and remove it. The water above that point will drain externally. Once that upper area drains, see if you still have water coming out of the oil drain. If you do, then the problem is in the area below that point which is normally a liner seal. If it stops leaking, then you will have a leak in the cylinder head area or above. Leaks above the block deck on 53 series engines are usually a rolled oring in a water jacket under one of the cylinder head which is a common problem. The perimeter seal will catch the water leaking and put it directly into the oil pan via the oil drain passages in the engine block. If you can get this far, then there are other methods to check for injector tube, cracked heads, etc.....
One point I would make is "Do not try starting the engine again till you figure out where the leak is!" If it is leaking in to the combustion chamber from a cracked head, hole in cylinder wall or the bottom of an injector tube and you start the engine there is a very good chance of bending a rod and having a major failure, like rod coming out the side of the block. Seen it happen on a few V-71's not pretty!
Well if there is that much, a gallon or more in a hour it should be easy to find! What I hate is when the only clue is when it shows up on an oil sample. Is it possible to get the oil pan off while in the machine? Also the valve cover? Like I mentioned above I would not try to start engine until you have found and fixed this problem or you could be in for more work and money than you want! If you absolutely feel the need to start it I would turn it over by hand a few revolutions nice and slow first to make sure you don't have a cylinder full of water/coolant.
Hmmm.
If it leaked a gallon very fast, most likely bottom of liner bore, or crack in side of liner. You would think that a leak in head gasket or injector o-ring that accumulates a gallon in an hour would hydrolock the cylinder from turning over. Pulled out too many of those liners to want to do another. As Kshansen said do not start . Turn over slowly with 1.5 inch socket on top pulleys. If it comes tight it is hydro-locked. If pan can come off in frame you will see the leak as plain as day. Simon C
My first thought from reading Btad's first post---a 39 year old engine. It's more than likely never been into, All original o-rings, perimeter seals, liners and so on. Despite my dislike for Detroit's there were tons of these engines installed in trucks just like this Jimmy with 53's that ran with out any major engine work. At this point in it's life coolant in the pan is is probably related to {most anything where coolant flows} age. Everyone has given very good ideas. Combining all the thoughts-pull the pan dump straight water in it pressurize and look for the water fall. But really it's a engine that needs to be resealed anyways just because of age. It's like me with a hole in a artery. old.
Truck Shop Said as close to Gospel Truth as you can about a 39 Year old unit. His suggestion will work 100% to find cause. Simon C
The weather has got a little bit better So here's a update I bought this for 5k so if it needed to rebuild I would not be upside down It looks like the sleeve seal on the #1 Is bad So I pulled a cap off one rod and the bering looks new I am going to do a oil clearance check Any body knows off hand what it should be I think it should be just one liner that needs to be repaired
The rod cap bearing is always going to look good in a Detroit unless something has gone through it. The rod cap is never loaded in a two stroke.
I am lost What do you mean cap bering in never loaded ? Thanks
Pressure is only on the piston side of the rod. The cap side just holds the rod in place while the starter is turning the crankshaft.
D*m dyslexia my brain was telling me the opposite By any chance do you know what the oil clearance is
A kind of general spec that my aging brain seems to remember, they were like 0.003 to 0.007 measured using plastigage.
Thanks
Don't replace only a single sleeve seal or you'll be back into the engine again shortly. Pull it apart and do the job correct to save yourself the future time and expense.
^I second this
I think it it is funny that you people on this site think you know more than me I have been working on these things for something like a month or 2 and you what 30 plus years LOL Me and my 2 months of experience says just fix the bad one If my oil clances is within specs Would that tell me that it rebuilt and the overall condition should be good? Or should I just bite the bullet and do a in chase rebuild ? My cost fix the one cylinder about 400 Rebuild 2400 Aging Thanks for all the help
Because you have the same hours on the other orings, but you do you. If you want to buy several head gasket sets and do the same labor several times.....im fine with it.
Sorry vetech I really really value your advice I was not questioning it I was trying to understand In different post someone said that it is easy to have the oring twist when installing the cylinder Aging you have helped me out a lot With other equipment Ps in my last post I was making fun of my ignorance not yours like I said 2 months of working on heavy You what 30 plus
I guess the point is: that if one failed, the rest won’t be far behind. Had a 6V53 once that sat with no coolant in it for a couple weeks while waiting on a coupling for the air compressor drive and when it was running again, the liners started leaking.
So teardown inspect and if everything is within specs reassemble Or just bite the bullet and order a rebuild kit what way would you go
How was the engine running before? If your going to have just one head off, you have already done 80% of the work to go ahead and do the other 2 while your there. 53 series liner oring actually rot over time. To do just one cylinder is just asking to go back into that same one again soon....then the other side. If the rings and liners look to be in good shape then there is a possibility of them being reused if you want to save money. You will need the gasket kit at the very least.
It sounds like a ter down and go from there Thanks for
Sorry vetech It was running great It has a problem with the cold start system So a little starting fluid for the first start Run for 2 seconds and it will start right up all day long
Does the engine have an ether injection system>? Is there a lot of oil dripping from the airbox tubes? Does the engine smoke any during any of its run cycle?.........if so, what color? Is this a primary use engine/machine or just periodic use? You can check the condition of your compression rings through the air box covers. If you have a lot of dirty gunk in the airbox then it will need a refresh on the liner/piston assemblies. A properly built and tuned 53 series will not need an ether assist.
Totally my fault. I misread your post. After reading it several times I can see the sarcasm. No problem my friend.
Oh my gosh another detroit saved by the bell.
It might get 200 hrs over the next 10 years It doesn't smoke after it starts up And it starts right up hours later it just takes a shot of either the first start of the day I will check the air box tomorrow Does it cold start system I have not even looked into Yet
A fellow told me once a detroit is running they could fall off and not mean a thing. I for some reason think it wouldn't be all roses and daisy's for too long
Here are some of my personal thoughts on the 2 stroke Detroits. If it won't start without ether within a 15 second crank cycle at 35 degrees, the compression is down a bit from wear, or misadjustments to the fuel rack, overhead, timing, governor, or fuel pump delivery pressure should be/need evaluated. Each engine is different so not assuming rings, valves, or anything really as they are all tended to with a "freshening up". Most of the two strokes take to ether like a duck to water but it's easy to overdo it without a "measured shot" system installed. The unfortunate part is many engines, (all series and types) have met an early demise because many tend to overdo it with the spray. Just a quick shot is all that's needed but I've lost count of the times I've seen a steady stream being applied till the engine fires off and the subsequent preignition resultant that shortens lifespans. I've had several apart with busted rings, mashed ring lands, severe burning to piston crowns etc. from the overuse of ether. I've not been around a lot of the "53" series myself but those I have been around have been maintained well and start very easily.
It made for a great engine in a skidder.
Yes they did. Several "TimberJack" skidders still around at a local sawmill outfit that really like them. My old TLB has a 3-53 and it's a great engine so far. Maintained a lot of standby power generators in years gone by that were 4-53, and 6V-53 series that served very well. Always kept at 130 degrees with immersion heaters, (FAA standard) so never any ether assist.
They work great in boats to.
I should clarify my last statement(s) in my use of the word "lot". Air control centers use multiple generator sets in the same shelter or building and these are referred to as "lots"; not a number or count of the same.
There is constant pressure on the piston throughout each cycle. It would run without rod caps as long as there is fuel.
In theory till it didn't quite fire 100 percent or had the slightest hiccup.
Well the best part of working on a different kind of eingen is I get to by new tools I just ordered a cylinder liner puller Compression tester I already have a Sealey TL95 Timing Light Is there anything else you guys can think I might need
Not sure what good the timing light will be on this job. You need various detroit tools for the valve lash adjustment, injector timing and governor settings, a good piston ring compressor, suction cup/hand vacuum pump for checking wrist pin retainers, and various other hand tools for proper reassembly
The timing light is for diesels it clamps on to injections line I have been working on Gass eingens probably longer than most have lived But just starting to work on heavy equipment That I am buying fir my building project Si most of this stuff I already have But I don't have any of the specifics tools needed for a detroit Is the suction cup used to remove pistons? How is a vacuum pump used to check wrist pin retainers? I do love learning new things Thanks all
There is no injection line to get a timing pulse from. Timing is set by setting a certain distance on the rocker adjustment for the injector. What you really need is a service manual for this engine. Every diesel has its own little quirks especially the part where you put the overhead stuff back together and make the adjustments.
I do have a tech manual Just looking for words of wisdom from people who have years of experience Witch I don't have on heavy equipment And let me tell you the words of wisdom here have saved me lots I was just planning on on fixing the 1 bad cylinder But not no more
A few places that have specialty tools for 53 series. Monaco has a web site. and Detroit Tools 71/92/53 2 Stroke Apex Tool Company is proud to offer quality USA made tools for use on the Detroit Diesel 50 series, 60 series, DD13, DD15 as well as the older 53, 71, 92 & 8.2 series of engines. Dont miss the industry's only complete timing pin kit for the 60 series.
In addition to Detroit Diesel... www.apexinds.com Sometimes can be found used for reasonable price, but it will give you an idea what new is verse used.
I have most all the tools for working on 53's including the Overhaul manual. Could even sell for the right price. Email me if you are interested. Simon C
I have all the tooling for 53s, 71s, and 92s. Package deal for......a cool mil. LOL
Sounds cheap to me how about 1.5
I wouldn't mind running across the tools for 53 series don't need then the forklift is running just fine
Gave my howler monkey tools away sometime back, except I found a leftover lurking under the mat in a drawer-over to the vise and torched it.
That stuff comes to me. It can go with the 3 sets I already have
Yes before you spend too much on tools you should decide what engines you plan to work on and get to know what tools you really need. I'm sure there is at least one person on the forum who can tell you what you need and what you don't really need for just about any engine made in the last 75 years! Might be just me but I would try to concentrate on what ever is the most common in you area and what age of machines you want to work on.
Well we had 1 nice days so I went to check the oil clances and I can only get it to 60 foot pounds and the stud start to spin So I went to a different Cap and tried it torque and she same In all the gas eingens I have done over the years never seen this Any thoughts
Make sure the rod bolts are lined up right a seated in the rod.
They are never had this before
The one I checked I only checked the torque I didn't losses it at all
Should be One flat on Rod Bolt set to Rod Body flat then Nut is torqued.
JY has all my Liner Stuffers, 53/71/92.
The ones I have delt with are either pressed in or a flat like you said My biggest concern is the one I checked I couldn't go more than 60 fp And I didn't loosen Just checking it's torque
Why are you doing that? You are just stretching the threads and ruining the bolt. It doesn't need to be overtorqued.
Vetech to the rescue again I think I just f## up I was using the wrong specs I thought 120fp Not 40 Should I replace the 2 I over torqued Dam amateurs me. Not you me Thanks vetech
Definitely replace those bolts.
Sounds like a no Brainerd Thanks
....and the nuts to those 2 bolts.
The other question, when was torque wrench last checked for cal?
My old one was a click stop I just but a new digital And I did a calc check with 2 different pull scales I have well over 30+ years in the construction union and the only way to check a level and square is against it self I have not found any like that for a torque wrench
Most tool sales guys (trucks) that sell better grades will have a torque check scale or can send in torque wrenches as I had done to have calibrated. A lot more complex than truing a square.
Ya, and with most carpenters, as long its close, its good. They have a hard time with measurements in thousandths of an inch or hundredths of a mm
Can buy a test meter, cheaper to send off.
At the school where I went, torque testers were mounted on the wall. Just an arm with a weight driven by a gear with a square hole. When you checked out a torque wrench, they told you to dial up the number you needed on the wall each time. Not to look at the number on the wrench since they did not bother to calibrate them. The testers never go out of adjustment since they are just a weight on a fixed length.
Just a comment on 53 series water leaks. This last summer we had a water leak in a 4-53 that powers a lumber edger at our local antique tractor show. The water had been drained every winter for the last 20 years that we know about, and who knows how long before that. It has not had and additives against corrosion in that time. Turns out the block rusted thru at the bottom of the upper section of the water jacket and into the top of the ports passages. When shut off it ran into the oil. If it had antifreeze in it year around it would not have needed a block replacement. Just one more oddball place to leak. When the pan was off, the water could be seen entering the offending cylinder from the port.
On the old 71 series and if memory serves on the 53s were cathodic ‘pencils’ in the water pump housings. Looked like pipe plugs yet had a threaded end those ‘pencils’ (zinc sacrificial) screwed onto. As DD stopped replacement production of the zinc inserts, we went to installing corrosion additive filters to stem it. Assisted and ended up performing block repairs by drilling the ‘soft spots’ on 71 series in the sleeve surrounding water jacket walls, threading and installing SS threaded inserts epoxied into the spots. Then honed those bores and fitted replacement sleeves. Sucked as everyone, the bosses, the clients and we the mechanics KNEW the blocks were trash.