Hello guys, I've really missed talking with everyone, but I had to have another surgery so I've been "out of commission" for a while. I can't seem to catch a break lately, but that's what happens when you get your legs crushed I guess. Anyhow, I'm back for now at lease, and I just had a guy offer to trade me a dozer, but I'm not sure it's going to work. I tried looking through all the old posts, but couldn't find the information I'm looking for, that's the reason for this "new" post. I have a guy who wants to trade me a Cat D6-9U dozer, he is supposed to send me pics and a video of it later today, it was a cable model that has been converted to hydraulic blade. It of course has a "pony motor", sweeps and canopy, and the remnants on back from the old cable winch set up. Could the old "winch mechanism" even be used for anything, like a winch? Most of them I've seen that have been converted, just leave the winch on back, but don't use it! He has no idea how many hours are on it, supposedly, it was used to farm with years ago, then "sat for about 30 years, but was started periodically". The person who owns it now says it has almost brand new tracks on it, and states it runs very good, and that ALL the fluids were changed, and they have been "trying to restore it as they use it", for whatever that's worth!?!!? The things that I'm most concerned about are: 1.) Being it's probably a 40's or 50's model, would it not have the lowest horsepower D318 motor? Which if I'm not mistakin' only puts out about 66 horsepower? Doesn't seem like much to me!?!!? 2.) Would it not also have the "dry clutches" instead of the "oil clutches"? I've heard some pretty negative things about the "dry clutches", like they don't last very long!? Is this a fact? 3.) What would I look for to tell if it's been "retrofitted", from cable to hydraulic, properly, or correctly??? 4.) He also states that they usually "pull start" it instead of using the pony motor, makes me wonder why??? He does say the pony motor works, so why would they not use it? I'm not very fond of pony motors to begin with, would this be easy to convert to "direct electric start"??? 5.) What is this dozer worth? The tractor I'm trading is worth $14,500.00 to $17,500.00. From what I could find, these old D6's are only worth around $8-10,000.00 at most! I found only ONE D6-9U that was "supposedly MINT" that was selling for $13,000.00, other than that everything was much lower!!! What do you all think a "fair" price would be for one of these? I'm just looking for a "ballpark" idea. 6.) Are parts for these still readily available? 7.) It is a "pedal steer", but has a "hand clutch", which I'm not very familiar with, were these any good, or is it something to avoid? 8.) What else was "good" or "bad" about these old D6-9U's??? Really the only things that make me even consider trading are the fact it's a "Cat", and it's the right size for what I'm needing, although, if it's NOT producing much horsepower I'm not very convinced that it will work for me! ANY input, and expertise you can give me would be VERY greatly appreciated!!! What things should I look for, or at, or what should I avoid, etc.? I just can't afford to trade for something that isn't going to do the job for me, and I don't have any time, or money, to be repairing things right away, I need to get out and get working, like yesterday! Thank you everyone for all your time, experience, input, and kindness! Best wishes to all! JDDozerman
Considering your circumstances, I'd say leave it where it is. We've got a '53 d2 5u with a pony motor, it can be a real pain to start. Parts are hard to come by for the d2 where I am, but it could be a different story in your side of the world!
I ran an maintained a D6 9u for three years while building a large farm pond , the pony motor was a bit of a pain. but if you kept clean gas in it it usualy started right up . That had an electric starter, but would start up also with a few pulls. You can covert to direct electric start , for the price of two hd batteries and the starter, $600 range. Mine was also converted to hydraulic blade, worked fine. The hydraulic steering only works while the machine is moving... The 318 cummings is a great engine and plenty of power for that machine . If you could find a good runner for about $10,000, you would have a good buy. Most parts for that machine are still available from CAT. The machine Im refering to is still working today
Thank you VERY much Smokey, that is EXACTLY the kind of info I'm looking for! I really appreciate the input and your expertise, as I am not very familiar with these. How about the "dry" vs "oil" clutches, do you have any input on them, I've heard the "dry clutches" don't last very long? Thanks again! JD
The dry clutches dont last as long. But as with most clutches...the more you slip them the faster they wear out. You also have to remember that those horses are more like clydsdales than the newer shetlands.
So, even if it's only producing 66 "horses" they are BIG horses?!!? lol! Could a person put add a turbo to these D318's and boost the horsepower some? I have a LOT of trees to push over, good sized Locust, some pin oaks, and such, so I could really use as many "BIG horses" as possible! I also have a lot of leveling, not much rock thank God, and some pond repairing, to do as well. I've also heard of people switching these over to "oil" clutches, does anyone know how to do this, how hard it is, and what the cost might be? I would really like to buy a "Cat", since they are the best known, and most common, but I just have to get past the "reservations" I have because of it's age. I have to make the wisest choice I can on what ever I get, because I'm already WAY behind where I should be right now, and I need something that has the "power" to do the tasks at hand. Thanks 51kw, and Steven, for your inputs, I really appreciate it a LOT! Where in Minnesota are you 51kw, I was born and raised on a farm there, down in the southeastern part of the state? Thanks guys, JD
First off smokey1 calls it a cummins engine. It is not cummins it is Cat all the way through. Only 66 HP out of a CAt 318 sounds pretty low. I have a 318 in a Cat No. 12 Grader with a pony motor. That series of pony motor is only 6 volt electrical system. Switching to direct electric would mean going to at least 12 volt, 24 would be better. Depending upon the age switching to direct electric can be easy or difficult. At some point in time, I am not sure of the year Cat started producing clutch housings with a hole in them for electric starter installation. Earlier ones requires the cutting of a hole in the clutch housing as well as drilling three holes for the starter and tapping them. These are not pedal steer. They have a lever for each steering clutch but some brake is usually required also. As far as the pony goes, the one on my No. 12 grader works just fine. Use premium gasoline with out any ethanol in it will go a long way to making them run better. Carburator is what usually gives most trouble. Also shut gasoline off when pony is not running. Parts should not be much of a problem. Machinerytrader.com is a good source.
Nothing wrong with a 9U D6, one of the best tractors Cat built. Need to know the s/n of the unit you are considering as that will determine the ease of direct start and oil clutch conversion if required. The cable control units are not equivalent to say a Hyster D6 winch. They are limited to about 5,000 lb pull for ccu use and depend on multiple wrap and shieves for required pull. The success of the blade to hydraulic conversion depends on how it was done. Is it a Cat conversion using the #46 hydraulic control? The Cat D318 is a real work horse, reliable with parts still available. Yes it would be desirable to have the oil clutch.....the dry version was the weak link.
JD, my machine, was a 1961 if I can remember, it had the plate and cover on the flywheel housing for the starter convertion, it had dry clutchs, that liked to rust up after sitting out the winters. I did pull one out and took it to cat, for rebuild. if I remember uit was about $900.00, and it took me 3days to change it, I had to remove the fuil tank to do the job, but at the same time I put an oil seal in the steering pump, that would leak down about once a week. The machine i had had lever steering, but hudraulic assist to disingage the clutchs. The engine was more than likley a CAT, all I ever had to do with that was change the oil and filters, and it would always srart with a shot of either . The pony engine starter was 6 volts but I used a 12 volt battery, and it never hurt the starter, The convertion kit at the time was a 24 volt system, but very expensive from CAT. good luck with it if you buy it....
Thanks guys, this is all VERY helpful information, I am still waiting on the pictures and video of the "Cat" in action, as well as the serial number, etc. I'm really confused now, because he did say it was a "pedal" steer, which makes me wonder if they were "riding the brakes", due to lack of knowledge in how to properly run it??? They are "willing to trade" it because they just got a D8H, but the D6 was the first dozer they ever owned, or operated, so it's possible they didn't know much about it either. I'm going to really take my time on this before "jumping" into any decision, in fact, one thing I'm considering is seeing if they are willing to have a certified Cat dealer inspect it. Any thoughts on this? Seems to me that would be a very wise move, considering all that's been changed on this dozer, as well as, because of it's "questionable" history. Thanks again for all this GREAT information, it is not only VERY helpful, but very educating as well! Thank you kindly, JD
A few stats: There were 29,764 9U's built from 1947 to 1959. s/n 13,263-up came with oil clutch (main) 1954-up models came with provision for/or direct electric start. Pony motor was still standard. hp rating of 75hp, plenty enough to spin the tracks.
Thank you VERY much Old Magnet, that's great info!!! I had read that the earlier D318's only produced 66 hp, but that just goes to show, don't believe everything you read! I'm hoping the guy will send me the serial number, pics, and video, soon so I can start checking it out further, but all of this info will certainly help me once I get it! I really appreciate every ones time, and input, thank you all! JD
I'm wondering, just out of curiosity, or maybe even "stupidity", does anyone have any input as to how these D6-9U's would stack up against say a IH TD 15, or a Fiat Allis 14C, in other words, could the D6 with only 75 hp, do about the same jobs? I can't help but wonder if this D6 could push over trees as well as the IH, or Fiat Allis, and without slipping the clutch, or bogging down the engine, etc.??? I DO realize it depends on a lot of factors such as, the size of the trees, as well as the roots, soil type, etc., so let me put it another way, if you had a good sized tree that a IH TD 15 could easily push over, could the D6 do it as well, even with the rather large horsepower difference??? I'm just having a hard time grasping the concept of why it has so much less horsepower than similar sized dozers of other brands, and is it as capable of doing the same job, as other brand dozers of the same size? Also, why don't they have turbo's on these? Can they be turbo'ed, or would it even help much? 51kw said "these are clydesdale" horses, compared to "shetland" horses of the newer dozers", which I'm not sure I understand, maybe I could get some clarification on that? It really does seem odd to me that they only produced 75 horsepower for a substantially sized dozer!?!?!? Call me "stupid", I just don't quite understand it, that just doesn't seem like much for a dozer this size?!?!?!? Ok I'm done rambling, I already feel like a "babbling idiot", but maybe someone can enlighten this "dummy"??? I AM trying to learn more, so I WON'T feel so DUMB!!! Thanks again guys! JD (Jumbo Dummy)
I know im getting old.... but I can't recall ever running into a 9U D6 with peddle steer...... help me here Greg, is my memory totally shot,,, i thought cat's first peddle steer were in their traxcavators.
I'm guessing he means the brake pedals are not linked to the steering levers like later models. "Hand clutch" would be the direct drive master clutch.
If your looking to do some serious pushing it's weight (traction) you need more than hp. The D6-9U is capable of spinning it's tracks under load but it's only a 20,000 lb+ tractor as opposed to say the D8H which is a 50,000 lb+ unit with almost three times the hp. Don't know anything about your TD15 or Allis 14c other than I would consider them to be orphans come parts needing time.
A 9U in good condition would be a decent Cat, and parts are still quite available for them. However, a newer TD15 International would be a better machine as would an HD11 Allis-Chalmers. This from a standpoint of being much easier to operate. They are direct electric start also, so you would not have to mess with a pony engine, a manmade curse if there ever was one. The AC and the International, even if newer would likely be about the same money as the 9U. Good Luck!
Your memory is totally still there gramps. No pedal steer until the traxcavators. I think in the K series if I remember correctly. No pedal steer in a 9u D6. Pedal steer on dozers confined to D3's D4CBs and up with the exception of the D's which came before the B's for what ever reason Cat did it that way. Never spent any time around D5's later than the B's so I can't say anything there either. Spanner I agree with what you say there too.
i had a d69u it would push down any tree you have. of course it depends on the operator. mine had a 12foot blade, it would roll dirt over the blade. pony motor can make a preacher cuss tho. i changed mine to 24 volt electric. i got it off a cat grader worked great. took a weekend to change out, make battery tray,wire up. it would make a great farm dozer, for occasional use. i wouldnt want to use it every day its a workout to operate!!!
You guys are AWESOME! This is EXACTLY the kind of information I was looking for, since I'm NOT familiar at all with the D6-9U's! I still haven't gotten the pictures, video, serial number, or rest of the information the guy was going to send, so all I have to go on right now is what he told me previously. He said it was a "pedal steer", with a "hand clutch", and from what I'm reading here, he either really doesn't know how to operate it, or something is really messed up!??!??! He said it was converted from a "cable" to a "hydraulic" blade (I have NO idea HOW it was converted at this point), and supposedly the pony motor works but they always "pull/push start it". Well, I don't know WHAT to think at this point, I guess I will just wait and see if he sends the rest of what he said he would, or maybe he was just smokin' some crazy cigarettes when I talked to him, who knows????? All I can say is "thank you ALL for the great education I'm getting on the D6-9U's, I think joining this site was the BEST thing a person could do, who wants to find out ANYTHING about heavy equipment"!!!!!!!! From a rickety disabled farmer, I say "THANK YOU"!!!!! JD
Hi JDDozerman, A couple fo things I maybe able to help with, first, no the 9U will not be able to push as much as a 14C or even TD15 as they only had as much push as an early D5. The D5 acted as a filler between the D4 and D6 when they upgraded the 9U to the D6b. Secondly, some ag tractors had turbos fitted and seemed to run O.K. but they were only doing draft work. The CAT motor in them was a very nice engine and I'm sure it was one of the reasons why CAT has the reputation it has. I had the privilege to operate one in the early '80 with only 2500 hours on the clock from new in 1957 but compared to modern machinery, you can't! Down here they are becoming a collectors machine so pay a premium for them. I would stick with a power shift machine for ease of operation. I'll leave it with you, Nelson.
Have to disagree there Animal, I think you'll find that the D6B replaced the 9U series in 1960 and both were only available as direct drive....and the D5 replaced the D6B in 1967 with the option of direct drive or powershift otherwise they were pretty much the same machine.
A little off topic, but I'm wondering why there are so many negative comments about pony motors? To me, they seem like the perfect way to start a big cold diesel. Is the pony motor itself hard to start? Some day I would like to own a dozer with a pony motor just because the concept is so cool but I certainly don't want another headache.
Thanks for your input Animal (Nelson), I must admit I'm having some pretty hefty reservations, at least with this particular 9U, NOT because it isn't a great dozer, but due to the fact the owner doesn't seem to even know his own machine, which makes me wonder what kind of condition it's "really" in. He has "no idea" how many hours are on it, or what all has been done to it. From what I've read here, he doesn't even seem to know how to operate it properly, since he says flat out it's a "pedal steer"! I have NO idea how the "hydraulic conversion" was done, or IF it was done properly, plus he said "it had sat for 30 YEARS, only being started once in a while"! On top of that, I'm not sure of the correct "terminology", and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe this dozer has the "pump up" or "automatic" track adjusters?!?!? Don't these older 9U's have like a "manual threaded type" track adjuster of some sort, that is kind of a pain in the arse?? I guess what I'm getting at is, I don't want to get the dozer and then find out that it's going to need a lot of work, plus, I just read an older post that talked about a rather worrisome, and "famous" problem these older D6's had with busting, or breaking, the intermediate shafts, as well as problems with the steering clutches locking up, etc.. I DO realize ANY "used" dozer could have potential problems, however, I am looking at some other tractors that I at least know a LOT more "history" about, such as what's been done to them, how many hours they have, etc., that would probably be much easier for me to operate, as well as having more things going for them, such as having a tilt blade (but not a 6 way), more weight and horsepower, NO pony motor to cuss at, etc.. I don't know, I'm just seeing a LOT of "red flags" with this specific D6-9U! It may wind up being a "moot" point anyway, as he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to get me the rest of the info, pics, and video, he said he would. Onward and upward, the saga continues, if nothing else I'm sure learning a LOT from you all, and I really appreciate it! I just REALLY need to get SOMETHING SOON, because each day is just putting me farther and farther behind schedule! It doesn't help that I'm disabled, because I wouldn't have to be so darn "picky", but that's the way it is, I just gotta live with it! I wish everyone a great day, and thank you all! JD
Hoo Boy. Pony motors would start machines in the winter when electric starting systems of the day couldn't. Other than that nothing good. They worked perfectly fine when in good shape and well maintained. A pony motor had a terrible life - Start from dead cold go to full throttle, load the daylights out of it and then shut down. Lots of parts, gasoline to go bad, carburetor to varnish up, weak ignition - you get the idea. They seemed to have a short life and were amazingly expensive to repair. I remember a friend pricing a short block from Cat and the price was $2200.00 and this was in the seventies.
Simple Get a D5b or a D6c or a D6d.
JDDozerman I am from Owatonna. Doesnt sound to me like the person selling it knows this machine at all.
That's pretty wild, I grew up on a farm southeast of Cannon Falls, and I definitely know Owatonna very well also, at least I use to. I would have to agree with you at this point, still no follow up from the guy so I guess I just keep looking. I feel like a woman trying to pick out the right hat!!! :^( I haven't had much luck finding any decent D6's or D7's at all, most have been cable dozers, which I definitely don't want. I have an option on a couple other brands, but I'm going to do some more searching in the meantime, I just wish I had more money, and time! Same old song and dance! Hope everyone has a great evening! JD
I have a later model oil clutch D6 9U, and it's one of the toughest machines Cat ever built. Here's an old thread on it , and if you go to my youtube channel there are some vids of it there pushing trees. I put a turbo on mine, and it helped but it was really just fine without it. The dry clutch machines aren't too bad- they worked many thousands of hours back in the day- but the oil clutch is a better setup. The dry clutch machines used rubber links between the flywheel and the clutch to transmit the power, and the last time I bought a set for my D7 about ten years ago they were getting harder to find and a bit pricey. Nothing wrong with a pony motor if it's in good shape, but I'm betting the one on the machine in question has seen better days. Still, it may be more economical to fix it rather than converting to direct electric, especially if the flywheel housing isn't already machined to take a starter- some were, some weren't.
Thanks for that Rusted, I stand to be corrected as it was a few years ago that I was told that and as normal I probably wasn't listening correctly.
If its not pushing or climbing you'd have to use the brake pedals to slow/stop a track to turn, that's probably why he keeps saying "pedal steer". Have you ever ran a direct drive machine? Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Hello chevota84, thanks for that input, I have operated direct drive machines before, the "problem" here was the guy had done some "modifying" to the tractor, and in addition, I was just going off what he told me. As it turns out, he was just waisting my time anyway, as he never sent me the additional info, pics, and video, he had promised, and after waiting for a couple weeks, he finally emailed me and just said "it probably wouldn't be a good dozer for me", so who knows, I kind of figure it probably was not as nice as he claimed, or something was wrong with it, but who knows, it all a "moot point" now. I'm have other machines I'm looking at so life goes on. I did learn a lot about these old D6-9U's, so it was not a "total waste" at least, I just wish the guy would have shot me straight from the beginning, but I'm not going to dwell on it. Thanks again, and thanks EVERYONE for all the great input, assistance, and information, I REALLY do appreciate it! Best wishes to all, JD
I wasnt trying to be a Richard but I saw your username and thought that if you were used to newer jd dozers you weren't going to like an old direct drive cat much lol. Good luck on your search. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Hey no problem, I didn't take it in a "negative" way, so no worries. I have operated a few different machines, mostly back before I became disabled, so it has been several years. If anything I would probably have to get use to the "newer" hystats, or maybe some of the powershifts, if they have changed drastically, but I'm a pretty quick learner so it shouldn't be too awful tough. My main problem is that, because of my legs getting crushed, I have limited use, and strength, in them, so I just can't get something that has "heavy duty" pedals, if you get my drift. That's why I was aiming at a "lever steer" tractor, or something that required the least amount of "foot work". Anyway, all is well, I have narrowed down my search considerably, and will most likely be making my final decision this week, at least IF everything goes as planned!!! Thank you for your support, and kindness, have a good one! Jeff (JDDozerman)
Ok Cat D6 9U. I have a late 47 or early 1948 serial number 9U00428. It has the heavy hard nose as some call it. Its the hydraulic cylinder mount and has the 46 hydraulic control. As other have stated its direct drive, hand clutch for main, lever to release steer clutch and pedal to engage brake. The pony motor with clean fuel and proper tune will start every time and if the pony motor starts the big engine will start as long as it has fuel. As for the cable control it is NOT A WINCH!!. If it where used to try and free a stuck tractor it may very well rip out of the mounts. Very thin metal comapred to a Hyster winch. This machine will do most any job I have from root raking, KG blade, land clearing, pond building, Fire lines, tree planting, pulling plows , its a real work horse. However as someone already mentioned its not a D8.
Hey JD, Did you ever get a dozer? We have a D6-9U hydrolic hard-nose that we rescued about a year and a half ago. Since that time we have had the hydrolic cylinders rebuilt, removed and reset the head, replaced the injectors and replaced the trunions. We also greased all fittings, replacing those needing replacement. All filters (fuel, oil, hydrolic) have also been replaced. It was converted to the electric start before we got it. We just pushed our first tree down today and it operated stronger than our previous dozer, a D6B. You can see it at this link on youtube: http://youtu.be/t1oQ4O0bO9A You can reach me at [email protected] or (931) 797-2989. Jason
Yair...Over here you very seldom see a bush tractor without a treepusher but in the U.S. (going by the Youtube clips) they are very seldom used. Why would this be? A treepusher is easier on the tractor any way you look at it...and you can tip out bigger trees. You don't need horsepower, all a tractor can do is spin its tracks, what you need is leverage...and down pressure to give traction. If you go in too low with a cable blade you pull both steering clutches back together as you rock to keep the PCU 'live' and lift the blade. Cheers.
Scrub Puller, I can't really speak for anyone else, but in our part of the country, except for the occasional fence row, we have very little soil. We have rock so most roots don't get real deep. That tree was an exception. Thanks for the operating lesson. I am a much better mechanic than an operator. Jason
Hi JDDozerman: Coincidentally, I purchased a Cat D69U (1955, 66 HP, cable blade, 12" wide tracks) about 6 months ago and have used it (north central MN) to push out some stumps and dig out a pond. I'm pretty happy with the (all original) pony motor and diesel engines as well as the operation. The key to your questions lies in the Serial Number (SN) of your Cat. Also, one of the best things I did was to buy the original Operator's Instructions and Parts Book for this Cat. Note that each track is independently driven by a steering clutch and brake - one for each - the type of clutch (wet or dry) depends on the SN. Cats with SN lower than (earlier than) 8U6444 and 9U13263 are DRY clutch, SN higher than this (like mine) are Oil-type. Also, ideally, only the steering clutches should be used to turn, especially when pushing or pulling a load; braking just makes for sharper turns. Here is a cut/paste from Wikipedia that answers a lot of your questions. (the link is shown below): "The D6 started out in 1935 as the RD6, fitted with a 3-cylinder 45 hp D6600 engine. The numbering was changed to the D6 in 1937.[2] Caterpillar first introduced the entirely new D6 in 1941 with the 4R & 5R series. This was powered by the D4600 engine of 55 hp (drawbar). The D6 4R/5R was replaced by the D6 8U & 9U series, fitted with the 6-cylinder D318 engine of 66 hp, in 1947. In 1959 the D6 was replaced with the D6B after 60,000 D6 4R/5R and 8U/9U tractors had been built. In 1963 the D6C was introduced. In 1977 the D6D with a 140 hp engine was introduced, as well as the D6D SA version with 125 hp (drawbar) for agricultural use. The D6H was introduced in 1986 along with 3 other H-Series track-type tractors. This was the first D6 with Caterpillar's elevated drive sprocket undercarriage. The D6R replaced the D6H in 1996. The D6M was a LGP version with 140 hp. Since 1996 the D6K at 125 hp and 28,409 lb, the D6N at 150 hp and 36,497 lb and the D6T at 165 hp at 46,690 lb all have been introduced http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_D6