I’ve got a customer with a NH-220-IF (industrial fire pump) which is a backup sprinkler system engine for a wood mill. Was leaking coolant from the head gaskets and bubbling compression while running. Removed heads and found pistons pretty beat up. Customer wanted to rebuild engine. Lo and behold, it’s pretty damn hard to find parts for a 1973 engine. Took heads to machine shop to be checked. They called to and said the injector tubes were leaking and they didn’t have the parts or tooling to do the job because the tubes were larger than normal? I called around and found a running big cam 350 out of a fire truck. Customer says no that they need to stay with the fire pump engine. The current engine is just a back and basically runs at 1000 rpm’s. I have limited experience with these so I’m wondering why the big cam wouldn’t work and why would the current engine have larger injector tubes? CPL028 serial number 10264739
The 220-743cu.in. really was a different engine although externally the same. Parts can be had, Interstate McBee. But that engine ran some bad fuel through it, Because it was a backup it sat with a lot of old fuel contaminated with water. That's why the pistons look like that. Problem is you need to pull the liners check the upper and lower liner bores in the block plus clean the deck and check the water ports for erosion. You need to find a full diesel machine shop for the heads, injector coppers are available and those engines are still around. you might Try Diesel Cast West-they are owned by Middle Distributors in Texas. I believe they have cylinder heads available, they also have a machine facility on the east coast IIRC.
My local interstate mcbee dealer says it’s obsolete. Tried going direct through Cummins without much luck. No surprise there. If we could find a complete kit I’d completely inframe it. I didn’t realize they were different engines. That’s what you get for assuming I guess.
Barrington Diesel.com will have the specs and torque limits.
Try Agkits.com.
Cummins is worthless on their older engines, the people who own that dinosaur couldn't afford Cummins prices even if Cummins had the parts.
FP Diesel lists 220 parts Federal Mogul.
https://www.agkits.com/cummins-743-oe-18440wsbm98224-sleeve.aspx?msclkid=c83006b16a481f0565ae67675dfbece1&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=KC Shopping - Long Tail&utm_term=4583657831098815&utm_content=All Products#.YdY5UGjMKUk https://www.mddistributorsstore.com/fp-diesel/184400/cylinder-liner
I Going to be that guy that engine was as old as I and now the day I was born.......Tis just a pup I am.......
Fire pump engines have to be listed for fire pump service. Maybe find a pump company in your area that could point you to a machine shop that can do it.
Most fire or general pump engines I worked around were third rate blocks, too weak for road service engines but great to sit and rot on a standby pump. Was a grind away code on the side of Cummins blocks for years, 1 2 3 4, ground away the grade level of casting with 4 being the lowest usable for anything. Pump and standby engines were nearly all 3s or 4s.
I've got an old Cummins in the shed that is still attached to a fire pump. Stationary engine, was installed with a marine heat exchanger. Any interest?
I remember going out to service an inline 8 cylinder Chrysler for a water pump. The block was so badly corroded that the cylinders weeped water . I told them it was beyond saving. Their response was, We can't replace the engine, you HAVE to fix what's there. The reason being, the fire marshal signed off on that configuration was acceptable at time it was put in service. To replace it would mean an 11 liter DD series 60 engine and a larger pump. To support that , the entire plant would have to be re-piped. They would have been happy paying whatever we asked, as long as they didn't have to stop producing
So I found a kit from from highway and heavy parts for in “I F” engine. $1200 shipped. I think I found a machine shop with tooling to do the injector cups about 100 miles from me. Even Cummins northeast didn’t think they still had the tooling. Terex herder, if you weren’t so far away I would be interested. Fun with fuel, the reason they are pushing so hard to fix this engine is the same reasons you stated. Apparently the Insurance company will only accept a fire pump engine.
Highway and Heavy Parts is a clearing house for vendors.
Insurers are Stupid, What ever was on the Specs sheets when they underwrote that policy has to remain the functional system, ran into that similar issue at the Nuke.
Yeah, I know. Freight would be twice purchase price.
Looks around mischievously... Y ou know there was this nice size Boy Scout campfire that got close to here last year and this would been handy to have
Gonna need a BIGGER lake now Spud, to draw off of with that New To You pump!!!! At the Nuke the Fire pumps were aligned for Auto Start should there be a fire Deluge system release. A standby Keep full and pressurized pump had the Main Header at 148#, the first Pump to start was Electric Driven, at ~140#, Next up first Diesel at 130# then Second Diesel at 120#, I and two others had the Auspicious Notation managed to start ALL THREE pumps at One time doing firewater Header Flushes by cycling a Hydrant open Fast Enough!!! Had Two 100,000gal tanks, was Enga Figured to last 4 hours to eight hours fire fighting Multiple fires at Full Flow of multiple Deluge systems with Hand Fire Fighting with hose lines. After that had a Cooling lake would draw directly off. Engines had Antifreeze Marine style Cooling systems where as pump started a solenoid would open and the discharge water would duct a copious quantity to keep that Marine Radiator Cooled off. Do NOT know why radiators in general were not applied to that. Pumps were rated at volume enough to feed multiple events at same time, pressure would suffer. To test run these we had a bypass line directly back to tanks where could deliver 150-200gpm back at design pressure. Microbial destruction of the pumps was biggest concern on a stagnant fresh water system.
It's not just the Fire Marshall. I've been VFD for years. The feds are regulating us heavily now. We have trouble retaining VFs anymore because they need 10hrs a week of training to keep up with stupid federal lowest-common-denominator laws from Homeland such as NIMS, TIMS, hours of mind-numbing fed videos to watch yearly with no fast forward. It's killing VFDs nationwide, forcing us to hire pros instead. IMHO. This requirement for a designated FD pump motor may or may not be a fed issue that you cite. I'd swap in a Big Cam 3 and not tell anyone. That's what my Chief would do, but we're old school here.
You guys down there must do things different. Years ago i bought a 534 ford natural gas engine that was pulled out of a pumping station. It was from the back-up emergency water pump. It was a small city and it was re-powered with a cummins, maybe an 8.3 if i remember correctly. I then turned around and sold it to the small town where i used to live for their emergency water pump which was an identical 534 that was starting to have a couple minor issues. It was an 'installed and running' agreement and i made a few thousand dollars from that deal. Worked great for a few years until their brain-dead-kid operator watched it get hot after it blew a heat-exchanger hose while running flat-out under full load. He called his supervisor and asked what to do. The guy screamed back 'shut it down you moron' with a few expletives thrown in. Then they got me to pull the heads off the original engine which was now the spare, got them freshened up, and swap them onto the one that i had sold them. That poor old 534 had run so hot it had started to burn the paint on the sides of the block. It seemed to run ok again and was still running years later. I gained some respect for the old 534's after that. Maybe the difference in this case was that it was part of a municipal water supply emergency system and not a stand-alone, fire-only pump
Yep. The point of all this federal crap is to make us all do the same thing nationwide. Got your own local best practices honed over time, tested and true? Sorry, feds want y'all to do it the Washington DC way now. Makes it easier for feds to swoop in and take over. They tried when we had a little tornado last year. Sheriff told them to pound sand. They called it straight line wind so they wouldn't have to open their coffers and help with money to victims. Nothing fed is good anymore.
So the machine shop deal fell through. Said he had the tooling to do a 250 but the 220 was different. How hard can it be to change them? The heads are off and easy to get to. Years ago I remember having to change injector cups in an ancient cummins in a Michigan loader. I greased up a tap, threaded the hole, used some sort of puller and yanked them. Then IIRC I froze the new cups, put some green bearing Mount on them, and used a tool to drive them in.
Do not know where he gets that a 250 and 220 are Different. Most all engines are using Top Stops for Mechanical where the old series are no longer rebuilt. ALL used the same Cups.
So the original machine shop told me the cups (he called them tubes in the head which throws up a caution flag) were larger than normal and he didn’t have the tooling. I honestly don’t know one from another but everyone make it sound like rocket surgery. They’re injector cups for crying out loud! It shouldn’t be so difficult.
There called injector sleeves/coppers. Cups are inside injectors. Problem is 90% of the old diesel machine guys have vanished. Anything below a Big Cam and your almost out of luck, And even BC's are getting hard to find parts for, Most of the blocks have reached the end of machinable life, Cat the same way. Call Diesel Cast West and get it over with.
Injector cups are the part that holds the nozzle on the injector and the part I think you are looking for is called an injector sleeve or more common a copper. Driving in the sleeve is just the first step ,then the tip is set the top rolled in and the depth set by reaming the sleeve . And truck shop was quicker. Bob
One thing to do is dry fit the liners {without o-rings} to check liner protrusion. After market liners vary up to .0015 on liner flange thickness. So move them around and mark them-.003 to .006 liner protrusion. I use a depth mic on the counter bores then install in best option.
I second Diesel Cast West, also Industrial Diesel in Tx might be a try too. The fire pump engine thing has been a thing for a while, anywhere that has adopted NFPA 20 is gonna want to see a UL listed engine.
Times are swinging hard the other way where manufacturers and suppliers do not want nor care to do the expense of certifications, so they could care less of NFPA Insurers or anyone else telling consumer they Require such cert. In the Nuke world was a required “N” stamp with associated paperwork ore to finish product heritage, that no longer happens either so where the certifiers draw their lines in the dirt the others are walking the other way. Do not see it changing up soon either.
The injector sleeves are different. The H and NH series used flanged injectors. The hold down flange was part of the injector. The sleeves are installed in the head and a special bolt goes through the hole where the injector cup would go the bolt is torqued to 50 ft lbs then the manual says to give the bolt two solid hits with a hammer then re-torque the bolt. Then the top of the sleeve is rolled with a special tool. The tool for the NH series is different then the NT series. I suspect that is what the problem is. The tools below are for the NT series. I rescued them from being thrown away in a shop move. The H/NH series roller is slightly larger if I remember correctly.
Next move could be to Update the Heads.
Update the heads? If you search long and hard you might find someone with the tooling. When I saved the tooling in the above post the NH/H tooling was there as well but I did not bother saving them as the NH/H was obsolete and parts were difficult to get and that was in the late 1980s.
Either have to Update the heads to a more current injector design or replace the entire engine assembly. Finding Tooling is only part of it, then find Obsolete Coppers, then find someone that has installed them and succeeded in No leakers for the minimal Obsolete Coppers that can be found. Update is about The ONLY way to repair what is there or Start from Scratch and pay the Piper.
The reason I keep bringing up Diesel Cast West in Portland Ore is it used to be called Northwest Motor Weld. It was bought out/taken over some years back by Middle Distributors in Texas. When it was taken over the old crew stayed and most of them are still there. I was on the phone ordering some con rods a few weeks back and the lady I was talking to has been there for 35 plus years. She knows her **** by the way.
About 10 years ago I hauled a head to the Portland store and bet I met that woman . I can't remember her name but she is a good looking red head. And your right she knew all about that outfit and what they sold. The last time I dealt with them I had a outside salesman wanted to choke him before it was over. All in all, everything I got from them worked. Bob
If necessary, freight on 3 used, unknown heads would be manageable.
Before someone get their panties in a knot this information is to educate not bad mouth. I had to find my old H-NH Cummins shop manual I bought while I was in school 50 some years ago and it cost $4.50 in the 60s. This covered 3 different engine series. these are 6 cyl engines naturally aspirated . NH 180 4 7/8 x6 672 cu. in. 6 bolt 2cyl. head flanged injectors external fuel lines. 4 valves. NH 220 5 1/8 x6 743 cu. in. same type heads NH 250 5 1/2 x 6 855 cu.in. 12 bolt 2 cyl head cylindrical injectors with O-rings internal fuel passages in head. the 2 smaller ones could have 2 valve heads. Could be turbo charged or supercharged. the 2 bigger could be had in 4 cyl. motors. The 5 1/2 motor was 4 valve and could be turbo charged. HP ran from 118 to 400. They all used the PT fuel pump. Copper sizes are different for flanged or cylindrical injectors. Bob
All good stuff, did you happen to see the bolt torque for the 6 bolt head--Bob. Also there is nothing about a old Cummins that's written in stone, Cummins had a tendency of throwing parts in all sorts of cpl's and before cpl's existed.
Probably a dumb question but is the cpl like an arrangement number? I’m going to call diesel west in the morning. They claim they can fix anything and it also shows a number for reman heads.
CPL stands for "Control Parts List" Yes similar to arrangement number. The six bolt heads were torqued to 475 foot pounds in 50 foot pound increments.
I looked at that ,480 FT.LBS. in fact I was digging thru a tool box the other day and saw my off set 3/4 drive socket for torquing those bolts under the water manifold .Some of the head gaskets called for a hot torque. The only good part there is only 18 verses 36 for the 855 heads. Yea the manual had is excess of a 100 different engine numbers H HU NH NTO NHC NHCT on & on. Ever see a NHH motor the 743 & 672 horizontal models? Bob
Fix everything but a broken heart and the crack of dawn. Have the serial number for them. If they don't have heads they should be able to repair yours. Bob
If any of this will help. I have parts books for most any old cummins built as well as shop manuals
I saw a horizontal engine in a converted bus once. It looked like a nightmare to work on.
Just for fun heres all the different exhaust manifolds that were avail.
And none of those are even close to what this one has on it. This engine runs a raw water system. No radiator, it draws water from the river and circulates it like an oil cooler across the coolant. The exhaust manifold has coolant in it and looks like 3”x3” square tubing with a turn on top. I’ll take pics next time I’m there.
That sounds a lot like a marine engine.
Marine app engine. And we routinely torqued these old 6 bolt heads with a 1" impact gun.
Just a thought. I worked on boats a bit more than I wanted to. There were a lot of ancient engines in boats that were still running. A marine engine shop might have access to what you need.
Cummins famous pancakes. Some of the weirdest engines cummins built are municipal and government-Time to clean the basement.
Getting a bit off topic. I saved a Cummins parts book for the L series. The L series had a 7" bore and was a six cylinder. It idled at 450 rpm max horse power was produced at 900 rpm. It used the flanged injectors very similar to the NH220 The parts book was printed in 1959 Here are a few scans out of the parts book:
I hate industrial raw water cooling systems, they can get real gooped up, either surface water or tank, plus you can get biologicals in there too. If it was us we'd want to check any screens and the heat exchange too.
Six years ago I could have bought a LR series, local airport had it in storage. It had a little over 200 hrs on it sold for $275.00.
Called diesel cast west. $975 per head or I could ship mine to them and have the tubes installed for $350 each and then we still would have old heads. Got the customer to agree and got them ordered. Thank you truck shop.
Is the 975 new heads ? is the 350 rebuild yours or just coppers? Bob
Rebuilt heads for any small cam or big cam average $650 and up. So for 220's a engine that was last mass produced in 1963-it ain't going to be cheap.
975 is new heads. 350 is coppers and I would have to remove all the valves before I sent them.
Dredging up an old thread I started. Got a call today for another nh220-ih fire pump engine. Fuel and coolant mixing. haven’t seen it yet but I’m probably going down the injector coppers road again?
Sounds like you became the ol Cummins fire pump hero in the area
Well the first one was in maine and this one is in Texas so maybe the word is spreading?
Repower is a FAR better Idea.
It might be but I bet there’s more profit in me fixing it. I’ll know more in a day or two. It’s in another mill and I’m not sure what the budget will be.
I still have a NH220 IF in the shed, fire pump still attached.
I will keep that in mind. remind me- does it or did it run or is it just for parts?
Too bad it's not a small cam 350, I have one that the block was machined and has crank, reman rods with oem piston/liners-no heads or cam.
Most everything ran at one point in time.......
Like a add ran last time it was used should be ran till it didn't
Even a 6L Ford.
I did not read through all the pages of posts but will share this. Komatsu made a deal with Cummins. An old track hoe had a Komatsu Cummins 220 as best I recall. The crank was bad and the owner had a Freightliner with a big cam 350. There was something different at the back of the camshaft to housing seal? Also had to grind out something for the after cooler line to clear. Buy a number stamp kit.
It gets even more complex on the Komatsu front. "In 1993, Komatsu formed two joint ventures with Cummins ; Komatsu-Cummins Engine Corporation (KCEC) to manufacture Cummins engines in Japan, and the Cummins-Komatsu Engine Corporation (CKEC) to manufacture Komatsu engines in the United States ". Each JV company had the first-mentioned company as the 51% majority shareholder. So Komatsu controlled Komatsu-Cummins, and Cummins controlled Cummins-Komatsu. From what I can recall, the Komatsu-Cummins engines used the Japanese-licenced Bosch inline pump fuel injection system (Diesel Kiki), instead of the Cummins PT fuel system.
Not to drift this awesome thread too far, but OzDozer makes a good point about the weird Cummins colab with Komatsu. I remember working on those strange engines during my short Komatsu career.
I’ve had 3 Johnson outboard engines that may have run at some point but I’ll be damned if I could keep them running. paddled every one of them home. Never hated something so much in my life.
I have to agree with the swap plan. Other than the mechanic, 99% wont' know a Cummins 220 from from a BC4 if it was set in their lap.
Johnson Outboards are built by that other boat engine company that produced the---- Salt Water Chevy.--It's good to hear some hate and discontent over a mechanical item.
If you have 1 Johnson outboard and you have to paddle it, why did you get 2 more
On sale.
We had a chainsaw like that till one day we got piss3d off and ran it over with the 943....
I’m a slow learner
Truck shop, they are telling me the issue is fuel in the engine oil. Injection pump seal? Can you give me some direction on this? TIA
Fuel pump main shaft seals, injector cups, injector 0-rings, cracked cylinder head, injector it self. Those are the main issues and the normal issues. Although on a old engine like that it could be a combination. Age. Best I can tell you from memory and my memory in some cases ain't too good.
Thanks. Sounds like I need to do some disassembly and send some stuff to injection and machine shops.
Because your in Texas you might try Premco for pump/injector repair, that's where most send their 855 stuff.
Maybe put dye in a 5 gallon can to pull from and return fuel to. Run and look for dye around injectors.
Generally Pump Shaft seal leak runs out weephole, first choice would be Orings.
Well I got to see the engine today. I had some dye with me and planned on going that route until we got talking and he mentioned that they needed to add coolant every time they ran it. Hmm. Topped off the water and pressure tested the cooling system. Wouldn’t hold pressure and we could hear a hissing noise. This particular application has a cooled exhaust manifold. Loosen up the bolts and water ran out of the manifold. Removed it, capped off the holes, filled it with water and put the air to it. Quickly found a crack. They had a parts book and we found a number. Googled it and found a place in Alabama that built them for $3200. then they showed me the old engine oil. Chocolate milkshake.
Too much money to repair, very obsolete, repower it.
AGREE!!
Sorry to disappoint you but we’re fixing it. it only runs 30 minutes a week and they don’t want to spend the money to repower.
You ain't disappointing me, I'm not the one that has to stand behind it.
My engine has a wet exhaust manifold
If it is a legally required fire pump it may not be possible to repower it without getting it re-engineered which is not going to happen. So rebuild or total replacement are the only option and total replacement requires re-engineering anyway and the lead time can be years to get one built and installed.
Had that issue at the Nuke, Fire Pumps, Backup Emergency Building Generators, had one 12V92(Siamese 6Vs, three SC Cummins two on fire one genny, and one KT series on a genny.
Which is nuts,-may as well let it burn.
Somehow I feel that I will own that engine someday. And you’re a bit closer to me these days
I'm lost on this one. Thread started in Jan 22, is this engine running yet? I thought it was needed for a fire system ? Went through this pretty fast and likely missed something. Old OMC outboards? Never had problems with them but then I liked working on them, as a youngster.
This post HeavyEquipmentForums He found another one to work on
I can’t get enough of them!
Used to be that way, found Cat.
Cat is nothing special, they got their share of problems.
Everyone has their own opinion. DD and Cummins pre 2000 are all now out dated and obsoleting fast. IH and CAT have issues but seem to hang on longer.
I’m getting my fair share of Deere lately. Started pulling a 6068 out of a skidder today. They’ve all got issues. That why I have a job.
They all have problems, I r just had good luck with Cummins, and starting when it's 4 degrees out, doing a whole job before some people get started is a bonus.
That just brought the sound of a 3406b starting on a really cold day to my head.
The vision of a Decompressed SC or early BCI/II 400 and the smoke screen they made on a cold start or really cold morning start just came to mine. Could smell unburned fuel for an hour or more. 350 8V71s and 71Ts did make a great deal of Fuel Smoke as well.
The gist around here is that cat is expensive to repair, well they all are expensive now anyway. I was also told cat has really good low end power but I did run one rig with a cat and drive one water truck with one and that was a lie. Loud, noisy, and power only on the top end if nobody would have told me the engine I would have thought it was a Detroit.
You will despise the latest engines, torque is like the Old Macks, BOTTOM RPM Range, HP is not the game anymore, torque and sustained pull power is even as Large HP is quoted. Most engines are 1800 or less top end, pull down to 1000, 1100 an just hang there, speed is what most equate to Power, is not the same value.
Finding a B model or 3406 E and up block that doesn't need machine work is getting tough. Comparing any of these older engines to late is apples and oranges. Can't make a fixed timed engine run clean cold without advancing the timing, and that is tough to do without MVT or STC. But once warmed clean up, even a B model smokes to beat hell when cold. The big difference is the price of parts. A BC with machine work and parts at cost $14,000 roughly, a Cat B model $21,000 plus. And there is nothing to say the B won't crack a head, that's really rare with a BC. Once a BC block has been cut for lower press fit liners and shims the leaking head gasket issue is pretty much gone. I don't know how many Cat heads I've changed out that were cracked, good engine but damned expensive for the same amount of work/life the BC will complete. Just having that Cat injection pump rebuilt can collapse a wallet. * Like anything it's who's doing the work and who's driving it. The wrong two people make for a bad combination no matter what engine. For the price of one DD15 $45,000 a person can stand a little stink and smoke from a B model or Big Cam. Real issue is does it get the same amount of work done at the end of the day? Neither are as fast and powerful as the newer engines but yeah both still complete the mission. * When it comes to engine brakes Cummins has always had Cat or Detroit beat when it comes to jake power. Cat's oil retarder is great but is heavy and a tendency to leak. So every engine has it's greatness and pitfalls. As far back as anyone should go running old engines is the mid to late 80's. * As far as two strokes--we'll leave that turd to dry in the yard under the days hot sun, the breeze can blow it away. * Not aimed at you DM-just things people forget about.
I'm going to go work on the BCIII I'm building and Sold. later.
Not aimed at you DM-just things people forget about. Did not take it for that direction TS, No Harm No Foul!! Loads of engines in the Day that seemed to have indefinite lifespans, 1693, Mack END, live forevers. Cummins long ago were 350-500,000 rebuild point, just due to leaks and poor maintenance in those days, get a Million out of a later BC II or III but as noted after first OH done block. Some engines were just not meant to last, some outlived their usefulness.
We won't see any in California, but Cat announced new blocks, cranks, heads, everything available as "new content" as far back as a 3406E so when the base parts are worn out you can still keep your old trucks/gliders going https://www.cat.com/en_US/articles/cat-truck-engine-articles/cat-reman-with-new-content.html
The one big problem is to justify what it's going in, some vehicles just are not worth the time. The thing about rebuilding a big cam today is with all the up graded parts and procedures when done it's basically a N14 with a PT mechanical fuel system. There really isn't much difference between a updated BC and a N14, and the N14 is a 750 to 1,000,000 mile engine.
I know, it seems like a small market. I wonder if it is because Cat maybe uses these same blocks, heads, cranks and other parts in construction equipment, so it was not a big stretch for them to make them available for ongoing truck parts sales as well. Also a way for them to keep in the truck market for some reason, although it is a tiny sliver of what it would be if they had not thrown in the towel way back when. It gives credence to my idea that people are still clamoring for engines that actually work/can be repaired, at least some of them.
Yet the big brother of the detroits, a 2 stroke, lives on doing the work with great dependability, in trains, boats, and other industrial applications. It is always a choice over anything Cat or Cummins offers for those same applications. The EMD's, I think even some of the first series 567's are still earning their keep. No turds there.
I was working in the yard of a generating station on an island near here had a EMD 16-701 that had over 150,000 hours on it. They were supposed to change the main bearings at 100.000 hours but never. When I went there again six months later it was silent. They later replaced it with a Cat 3516. The Cat runs at 1800 rpm and the EMD ran at less than 400 rpm.
Since I last posted at 10:58 am., I ran to the shop to change out some parts I had cleaning. While there one of the old dispatchers stopped in and told me about his son's 2016 Pete glider that blew up, 6NZ Cat that was overhauled 230,000 miles ago. They took it to Cat this time, he showed me the bill just for a complete 6NZ C15--$52,480.00. Plus all the incidentals and labor the total was $67,900.00. Plus this engine 475 Hp and the old one was 550 hp. Why that route didn't ask. Inanimate objects don't earn their keep, there is no their it doesn't do squat till some starts it. There is no keep to earn-it's inanimate, that's only a thought to cause the owner to feel better. Bought because it's cheap.
Not really sure what you are saying here. I drove a mp8 mack and was really impressed, power around 1000-1200 and up, much better than the e7's 1600+. I still like my low hp n14 bottom end power. I'm probably going to roll the crank bearings and see what it's set at (330) and see if it can go to 370. Should have plenty of bottom end power at 370
Local Sand company that lost a boat to fire brought the hulk to the bank to see if can repair/rebuild. The Mary Lynn was built in 1957 and just had passed a hull integrity inspection, has had new screws and shafts in last five years. Will be scrapping the EMDs, installing Cummins, 16cyl Tow Boat engines(Used) from Mike's Marine in Wood River IL. Came out of a LA Boat. The owner old me the series but that cell cooked off.
Holy cow. $68k. Holy cow.
Cheap ain't it--here's the good part, today's prices with inflation, that's not going away. better stock up at those prices.
I think there are some manufactures, factory automobile crate engines that go for that or more. Mercedes, Porsche etc.
Go here scroll down about midway, look for Engine part number 177-010-60-08 the price is listed as $84,870.00. Just noticed one farther down for 87K. Mercedes-Benz Complete Engines For Sale | Mercedes-Benz USA Parts Shop OEM Mercedes-Benz Complete Engines At Great Prices For All Mercedes-Benz Models From The Official Mercedes-Benz Online Parts Store! mbparts.mbusa.com
In August 1980 I hired on at a KW dealership as a mechanic. They had a spring breakup in-frame special for the 855s. $4495.00 that included 6 cylinder kits main and rod bearings all gaskets including jake heads and 3 exchange heads and 6 injectors reseal the oil cooler and after-cooler. Turbo and any block machining was extra. The following year it went up to $4995.00 for the same in-frame.
In the early 90's Cleveite was selling a double ni in-frame kit for 1,050. reman cylinder heads at that time from B&G Seattle were $240 each. A rebuilt pump for years hang in the $365 dollar range and reman injectors were $36 each. * Reman heads now $775, complete new $825. Reman 218808 connecting rods now $221 each, New now $169 each. Reman injectors now $90 each. Reman PT pump now $945. Complete out of frame now $1,900 ISMB. Oil pump average now $700 for USA made. was $300 for a long time. Accessory drive $750. Cam Followers now average $550 were $225 for a long time. A USA made camshaft $1000, was $575 ""-"""-"". * With machine work and parts to out of frame a BC now days just figure $13,000 in parts rough and $6 to $7,000 in labor. I remember when a Long Block 855 could be had all day long for $6,500.
You guys are showing your age!! I bought a new complete crate Mack ENDT-673 (237HP) Maxidyne engine in 1980 for my Mack F785, for the grand total of AU$14,000! I went that way because the block cracked on the original engine. I suspect the block cracking was driveline vibration caused. The old F785 had the 6sp OD Maxitorque transmission with the huge OD gearing in 6th, I think it was about 40% geared up in 6th, which made those big driveshafts spin at about 3500RPM, making driveshaft vibration a regular problem with age. The exchange rate was around AU$0.90 to US$1.00 back in those days, a far better rate than the region of around AU$0.65 to US$1.00 it has been in recent times. So that AU$14,000 equated to around US$12,600 at that time.
In 1980 you could buy a reman Eaton 13spd $1,900, for a genuine Eaton reman now close to $6,000 maybe more.
I read this and the parts you listed above and it looks really dismal for the old guys like me trying to scrape up something to work with. I guess when something major breaks on my truck I'll be out of business.
Mine was around 12k in parts to rebuild a couple years ago with me doing the work Add to that 3k for machine work and 8k round trip for the shop to pull it and put it back in
Average on machine $2,800 all depends on how extensive the machine work required. This block was machined by CEMCO in Yakima, Cemco sold out to employees about 1998 IIRC. This block has been setting since unused-Decked, Line Board, Machined for LPF, in 1998 cost was $1,800 with cam bearings and installed. Deck Height -.011 and Cemco can be seen on deck. *
I had Cam Grinders in Seattle do the work on mine. That's who Tacoma Diesel recommended. TD doesn't do much work on trucks but I've worked with them for boat stuff
Here are some early day surplus prices.
I can't imagine how much it would cost in gas money to run one of those these days! Didn't some of those end up in racing boats and drag racers?
As a dirt racing friend used to say, "It's not cubic inches you can hear bellowing, it's cubic dollars!! ....
Tractor pullers also used them. The sound was unique and loud when only 100’ away at full power. I wish i had one or a Merlin just for fun on a stand just to start up occasionally
History making {Slo-Mo} set the early 50's record with a Allison. Hydroplane Slo-mo-shun IV establishes world record on June 26, On June 26, 1950, in Lake Washington, the hydroplane Slo-mo-shun IV, piloted by Stan Sayres (1896-1956), shatters the world speed record on water. His speed of 160.3235 mph betters the previous recor www.historylink.org *
I have a neighbor I would love to give a wake up call to the morning after they have a party!
Back in the 60's a guy built a drag car with 4 Allisons, 4 wheel drive. A friend owns it now, it's sitting a mile and a half from me...
Is this the one-Lytle's quad built in the 60's, I remember seeing it in Hot Rod mag's back then.
Yep!
Not miles per gallon but gallons per mile.
One of the few times I ever got away from the farm as a kid, my dad took me to the 1968 Atomic Cup on the Columbia River in the Tri Cities. Miss Eagle Electric powered by a Rolls Merlin-won that year. At the time I didn't know what I was hearing but the Eagle was along side the Bud, then the Eagle exhaust made a change in pitch as he hit the Nitrous Oxide button for the Win. * Below Miss Eagle Electric during time trials on Lake Washington Seattle.--855's to Merlins and Allisons.