I have a Cummins b3.3 in a snorkel lift. Mechanic was just here and said that the machine wont start because its not getting any fuel. My question is where is the fuel pump? He said his best guess was within the injection pump. Is this accurate? Does the whole injection pump need rebuilt to do this? I hope not! ointhead
What model Snorkelift is it?
pro 126 2001 model
I would follow the lines to and from the fuel filter to verify that an electric fuel pump has or has not been added to the circuit. before going through the expense of testing/repairing the injector pump, check the fuel circuit from the tank to the injector pump. All what work did the mechanic/technician perform on this? Fuel Filter change? Bleed Fuel Lines and Filters?
Here is a link to the Parts Manual for that machine (Pro126): lift pump is shown on page 63 http://www.snorkellifts.com/Downloads/Full_Manuals_Library/220191443.pdf
Did the wrench test/check the shutdown solenoid?
Mine was built 7-2001. It might be considered a tb126 also..... not sure about that part. I do not see a mechanical fuel pump anywhere on this machine. The lines go from the tank to the filter then to the injection pump area. Honestly it looks like its straight into the pump. I have a terex lift with a 3.3 and it has the mechanical fuel pump shown in the picture.... Not this machine though.
Yea, we checked that also. It doesnt appear to be getting fuel to the filter though. Is there an electric pump between the tank and the filter somewhere? Its freezing out so i dont think im up for another round of inspecting outside today! If not what pumps the fuel to the injection pump?
see if this is the one for your unit: http://www.snorkellifts.com/Downloads/Full_Manuals_Library/0191908.pdf looking at the drawing on page 141, it is calling out the wiring for a fuel pump. That should be the one going to the injector pump. wire 8D?
Yep, page 51 top left detail is what im seeing
On my truck for test purposes, I have a 12 volt NAPA fuel pump. I would verify I have voltage coming into the terminal at the fuel pump. If so, I would also verify there is no restriction at the fuel tank, fuel lines from tank to filter, and no restrictions from filter to pump. See if you can get fuel to flow from tank to fitting at fuel filter. If no, then I would fix that. If yes, then I would insert my test pump into that line before the filter. Start the test pump to charge the filter and see if the fuel pump in the injector pump is working. try to bleed the injector lines at this time also. If it runs with the test pump installed and running but will not run without the test pump in the circuit, then the internal lift pump/shut off is suspect.
I checked and have power to the shutoff solenoid. Also, i blew out all the fuel lines to the injection pump. Are you saying they are calling out a stand alone fuel pump?
I recently had an injector pump rebuilt that was on a Cummins engine in a Komatsu forklift and its fuel pump was part of the injector pump. I told the rebuilder I had never seen one and he showed me the vane pump when he disassembled it. I make removing the pump the last option. Make sure the fuel shut off solenoid is active even though it has power. Last week a machine's pick up tube in the tank had a screen on it that was clogged. Also, check the fuel return check valve on the pump to make sure it doesn't have a piece of trash holding it open(not likely if your not getting any fuel but worth checking). You said it was freezing out, does it have fresh fuel filters on the machine? If they have accumulated any water and it froze in the filter it will block the flow. Hope this helps.
Remove the guts from the electric shut-off solenoid.[spring and plunger] Work the MANUAL s/o lever several times.[located on side of pump] Remove the return line banjo bolt[says "out" on it] and pressurize the fuel tank w/compressed air. Once you get fuel flowing out the return line, tighten the bolt back-up. NOW loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS and spin the engine, if you get fuel squirting out the lines, tighten them back up. If the engine starts you can shut it down with the "manual lever".. IF you can start and stop it after sitting a few hrs then all you had was air in the system. If it wont, it may be the internal transfer pump or electric s/o solenoid
I didnt see any levers on the side of the pump? Have we determined that the fuel pump is inside or part of the injection pump?
yes my research is showing it as a VP44 pump. A vp44 pump has an internal transfer pump. Do you have fuel flow up to the filter assembly?
other resources also say it may be a Zexel V series Here is a link with breakdowns of some Zexel pumps, see if one of these is yours. http://www.zexel.com/distributor_pumps.htm
I was under the impression it was a Bosch VE as pictured on pg. 1. VP will have a big electrical plug going to the top cover. Both pumps have internal transfer pumps BUT NORMALY have a "helper" lift pump to pull fuel from the tank and push it to the IP.[injection pump] Very rare that your doesnt have a manual s/off. Reguardless, you can back out on the low idle screw to shut it down or choke it off if it starts. Some pump #'s are going to be a BIG HELP here..
i will check that pump out tomorrow. no fuel to the filter
I will work on that.... thanks!
Don't overlook 18nascar18's suggestion of moisture in the tank/fuel line being frozen. I know from my years living in Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana, the winters can bring havoc to diesel starting. Used to have to aim torpedo heaters at the fuel lines many times. It sounds like you will be in good hands with the SC pump guy...
All of your cummins has either manual or electric pumps on them. Most are manual. If it's electric it will be in the fuel tank. Can you take a picture of the side of the motor that the injector is on and post it? I work of a big rental company and most of the equipment has cummins in them.
Sorry, i havent had the time to crawl up in there and clean that pump up to see the pump #s. I will try to do that this weekend and take some pictures...... If the wife lets me break free from operation kitchen painting!
Here is a couple of pictures of the injection pump. I do not think there is a inline pump on this machine. There is no electrical going to the tank and there is nothing inline between the tank and the injection pump. I hope this helps figure out what to do next!
Voodoo's picture was correct. Zexel VE pump. Remove the outlet banjo-bolt on top of pump. It looks like thats the ONLY thing you can get a wrench on..lol This unit requires "flow" to pump..inother words, if you cant get fuel OUT of the pump[clogged return bolt] you cant get fuel IN. If the shut-off soleniod is bad, it will also prevent "flow" to the pump..IF you can, run a 12v jumper wire straight to the solenoid and listen for a CLICK, thats probably going to be easier than trying to remove it. Have you tried filling the filters w/fuel inorder to prime the system? If you do that and the fuel "disapears" then you know the pump is sucking the fuel. BUT, remove the outlet bolt first!
I just pulled the parts breakdown and specs for your pump[104741-7062] The lever on the side, doubles as your "start quantity adjustment" also your manual shut-off. DO NOT TRY TO ADJUST IT!! Pull it back afew times to see if anything is stuck..
I pulled the banjo bolt on the top and it appears to me that that is the inlet side of the fuel?? The outlet seems to be the one with the plastic cap on it shown in voodoos picture. Anyways i blew them both out and no luck. Also messed with the manual shutoff and it was free moving. The first thing i did when i had problems was to run a hot wire to the shut down solenoid. It is clicking when powered up. I briefly tried to pull the solenoid and it is a PITA! I didnt get that done, its getting too dark now.
If the solenoid is clicking, chances are its good. The outlet bolt IS the one w/the cap[top of the pump] The INLET bolt is towards THE FRONT
OK, so the inlet is the one (In my bottom pic) on the top left and the outlet is on the top right?
CORRECT THE OUTLET[RETURN] BOLT IS A RESTRICTED FITTING. It has a tiny little hole in it. Thats why I want you to remove it and pressurize the tank. it will allow you to force fuel thru the filter and pump, aslong as the solenoid is energised.
Ok, i get what your saying now. There is no banjo bolt on the top right fitting, its a barbed fitting the rubber hose slides over. I will try to pressurize this tomorrow. Thanks!
So i pulled off the outlet side of the injection pump, used a jumper wire to the stop solenoid and pressurized the fuel tank. There was no fuel coming out of the outlet of the pump. What does this mean?
Not to be rude, but you DONT get what I'm saying. The BARBED FITTING is held into place by a BANJO BOLT[17mm] THAT IS the return fitting[17mm banjo bolt] REMOVE the entire bolt, energize the solenoid, and pressurize the tank, wait till you get fuel spilling out the top of the pump[banjo bolt area/return] Keep me posted.
are you even getting fuel to the filter when you pressurize the tank?
I really dont think i can get that outlet banjo bolt out the way this thing is shoe horned in there. Thats why i removed it from the hose barb. I was able (i think) to get about a quarter turn on it. As it is, i think the radiator will have to go to remove that or the whole pump. Yes i am getting fuel to the filter when its pressurized. All the way to the inlet of the pump.
Ok, so today we removed the outlet banjo bolt and connected a inline pump between the tank and filter. We have fuel from the tank to the outlet of the injection pump. Any ideas?
Solenoid "jumped" and lines loosened at the injectors? and still no fuel squirting at the injectors? Sound like the IP needs to come off. Let me backtrack to a previous post to get the pump # and I may be able to assist you in the removal. IF you have fuel in and fuel out and the solenoid is opperational, and the pumps not pumping, thats about all the diagnosis you can do.
Acording to the pump breakdown, the drive shaft on the pump is keyed and is driven by a gear in the engine, so the pump will only go on 1 way. BUT the pump itself is bolted to the engine block "on slots" for fine tuneing timing. See Voodoo's picture.. Make a scratch mark on the pump and block OR trace the outline of the pump onto the block BEFORE removing any bolts!! Your going to have to access the plate infront of the IP to remove the nut that holds the gear to the IP driveshaft. IF you have some "white-out" mark the gears to oneanother incase the pump gear moves away from the drive gear. The pump gear and pump driveshaft are "tapered" so you will need a puller. Normaly there are 2 or 3 threaded holes in the gear to aid the puller. Just remove the nut and washer, screw the nut back onto the driveshaft FLUSH with the driveshaft end[keeps from messing up the threads on the shaft when puller is screwed down] Install the puller and pop the gear off the shaft. DONT REMOVE THE GEAR, leave it in the engine. Send pump to pump guy for repair..lol
Incase you were thinking about getting a service manual, the engine manuf. is KOMATSU..and the model is..S4D95L
rebooting this old thread as i'm looking at a similar year snorkel with this same engine. I already have a B3.3 2006 in a snorkel and have had zero trouble but its relatively low hours for its age (1800). This unit I'm looking at has 5000 so i'm starting to think about common middle age problems. I don't see a lot of posts about problems but the injector pump seems to come up more than anything. Similar aged Deutz ,which is another industrial engine snorkel(and JLG) used, Timing Belt is a common recommendation. Does the B3.3 have a chain? What is recommended interval? This engine runs like a top, no issues. But just trying to see if there is anything I should do for its age. I also heard from a field mechanic that when I say Cummins they say starter. That's the kind of perrennial issue I don't mind as much from a cost and simplicity standpoint. And the very first thing I did with the other was to put a block heater and oil pan heater on it to baby the starter and engine in cold weather (got a great trick for grabbing a pipe tapping about midway up the jacket and putting a pipe tee in at the temp sensor tapping at the water pump and then using an 1500 watt external. works great.) If I' reading @thepumpguysc correctly this is actually a Komatsu engine? Anything else stand out to anyone as common problems for these engines generally and esp. at medium hours e.g. 5 grand? Thanks, Brian