anyone got any experience pulling one of these overhead cam engines apart, any special tools absolutely necessary to remove a head if I have to go there. This is a t4 interim engine if a serial number is needed i will provide tommorrow.
We never had any around that lasted long enough for me to get into-so can't help you there.
We have 2 trucks that the bought used and appear to be previously wrecked and deleted by previous owners, so these actually have over 500k on them without throwing a rod. Sounds like this truck dropped a valve or broke a piston ,it isn't good whatever happened to it .I have one more truck to get thru the shop then this one is gonna get backed in , I may end up making a free account with cummins so I can get info .
Now that its cold its just a miss with alot of smoke . Wonder if I just had an injector go bad and when it was hot it was detonating so bad it sound like it was blown up , gonna dig into Monday morning and get the injectors sent off to a fuel shop for testing
So I found these 2 chunks of steel in the turbo. This peice went thru cylinder 3 . No clue where it came from yet, 3 injector is beat up .top of piston is beat up . Got intake off dont see nuthen in there . Looks like head is gonna take a crane ride at this point.
Well getter off there, people are wanting to see the carnage.
Sorry I spent the rest of the afternoon getting my limited free account on quickserve going and reading the engine manual. Here is a picture of the injector on affected cylinder that clued me off to keep digging.
Best porn pictures in awhile the more expensive the part is that’s broken the more revealing it is.
Could be wrong but--------------dropped a valve. I don't know of anything on the intake side that could fail and make it's way to a cylinder, I have had the intake off on a 15 liter.
I looked at everything with a scope even down into the cool side of charge air cooler ,i think that piece now pieces of steel was either left in intake side somewhere on accident and it finally got into engine . Thats all I got for now till head comes off ,hopefully today.
I'm down to pinning the crank, taking cam gears off, **** I have to pull cooling package off there are head bolts under the cams f me . Oh and half the bolts that were in aluminum broke off or ripped the threads out so I have that to deal with as well now
The part about the bolts snapping and seizing is fairly common on those engines, any external mounted hardware I've had to deal with 10% were a problem.
Thats why the local truck dealers don't fool with these engines they buy a Cummins recon and be done with it . Bob
I'm also not getting paid 165 an hour to do the work ,bosses cost saving is gonna be a bunch of new hardware and at least a new accessory mounting bracket. Im probably gonna end up doing an inframe with a recon head. I need to order up a couple tools for reassembly. It should be a million mile engine like when they first came out cuz there are various bits and bobs plugged.
I just noticed my title says 13 liter dumb new phone and a lack of proof reading lol its a 15 liter 485 hp
I think you need to pull the radiator to get the cams out. Bob
Yes, and I also believe the entire front structure must come off? We had an ISX that needed front structure resealed, luckily it wasn't the head gasket, which can produce a substantial oil leak that looks like the front cover, FWIW. The bill was $4400, and we were told if the head would have had to come off, it would have been 50 hours of labor instead of 30. The Cummins ISX has to be, without a doubt, the most perfectly designed money-maker in regards to service in the history of engines. Change my mind...
Cams come out the front with chamfered fit gears also need timing wedges to go back together I was in 2 of those for oil leaks behind the gear train it's strange to look at a set of gears with no timing marks now you want a really good time stuff that motor in an international and find a way to work on it
Very true-it is one of the most time consuming engines built even worse than a DD15.
If the bastsrds were good enough to legitimately last a million miles, it wouldn't be so bad. But, in my ISX world, one mile over 500K and you're on borrowed time, and a hell of a lot of them didn't/don't make that.
Luckily I only have 2 trucks with this exact arrangement and engine and they are axle forward long nose Pete's so room is not an issue for most of it. 3 rd truck with this engine is a tier4 final common rail engine that is under warranty, 3 truck with various small cummins , a couple trucks with small and large cats . Everything else is grey engine macks .
The early ones ran a good long time non vgt turbo no emissions i think they had a really small egr valve but no cooler . Maybe that was a different engine series dont remember.
On hold till tommorrrow, have a disassembly reassembly master kit coming in next day air that covers all 3 arrangements of this series engine. And the reimbursement check in my back pocket. While I was at my favorite store I picked up the needed dial type torque wrench 0-150 inch lbs. I need that for projects at home also so eh, I just hate that little torque tools cost as much as big uns . At least till you get past 1/2 inch drive .
I usually leave the accessory bracket on as the bolts have a tendency to be seized. You can lube up the seal and slip the front cover in with it still in place. Replace the old style single arm piston cooling jets with the new cupped style ones. If you are getting all genuine Cummins parts you will need the APR piston ring installer as well for the new style liners. If the emmisons stay on it helps out alot to put in the 4.75 wedge in the injector cam to advance it more and it keeps the soot out of the oil. Counterbores probably need cut as well. Egr coolers like to hide bits of steel after a failure like that and ruin a fresh rebuild. Either replace it of remove it.
All of the emissions components are still on the engine but that is all I can say about it if you catch my drift, they were bought used like that. Valve cover says 4 and 6 degree wedge the kit that is coming has all the wedges in it for all the variations.My accessory bracket had to come off it was covering one of the top cover bolts And yes they were seized I have one broke off that goes thru the front cover I will work on that once I can get far enough into it to order parts.
If I had any idea I would have made my own puller those gears come of super easy but this kit comes in an attractive blow molded case. Once step closer to getting inside
The metal i found in turbo is flakes of a valve. This baby is gonna get fully inframed not fixxed
Looks like a pair of eyes in that piston looking back up at you. Kind of evil looking at that.
Cracked #3 liner also.
Not quite as destroyed as I originally imagined from your script. No wonder she had a bark on her with the valve in that state.
I have never seen a valve fall apart like that ,it was an intake valve and it was blowing chunks back into the intake as it started leaking. Cylinder 1 and 2 pistons are covered in dents also, makes me wonder about what caused the last turbo to break about a year ago. This trucks been sitting about 90 percent of the last year.
It sounded worse then it is but head is junk. Counterbores look good gonna order parts Monday and start cleaning.
It's known technically as guttering. Seen plenty of it back on the day on Cat 3500 engines working at high altitiudes 10,000ft+. Be interesting to see what the stem side of the valve looks like.
What is the cause at high elevation? I always thought high elevation was mainly a turbo RPM or overfueling problem.
That is not caused by a issue with the valve but rather a valve seat issue of hot spot/spots developing on the valve seat. Can be caused by poor cooling of the seat and or high cylinder temps. At work will elaborate later this afternoon.
Cat used to have a tag on most machines saying what altitude they were set to run at. I know they were to be derated as they went higher in elevation.
That is what I thought, but I thought it was related mostly to turbocharger RPM, less air=freer spinning turbo and it might fly apart. But there is probably more to it than that.
That valve appears to be coated in all kinds of deposits. Did they get there before or after the valve failure?
Here is one of my good cylinders vs bad one . Not sure if you were talking about niges picture or mine so I took better picture.
I was speaking about Nige's photo. I am very curious about yours as well. I've only remember seeing something like your issue once and it wasn't a Cummins.
Certainly correct as regards turbos. High-altitude versions generally have a titanium compressor wheel rather than aluminium (colour me expensive....!!) but there's more to it that that. Also have to pay very close attention to cylinder exhaust temperatures. Back in the old days of mechanical engines it was get the pump guy on site and redo the rack and/or advance settings to suit the altitude. On electronic engines it's all done with the flash file that works on the signal from the atmospheric pressure sensor. Fuel injection quantity, air-fuel ratio control, and injection timing are all determined instantaneously from a map in the software. Advance-with-Altitude (AWA) was a feature that came into the flash file around about 20 years ago. I recall testing it maybe in the 2001-02 time frame on D10R's with HEUI engines working at about 17,000ft ASL. Funny story. About that time the same mine got a brand-new 994D. It was obvious it wasn't right, smoking like a ba$tard, wouldn't pull converter stall, etc, etc. I happened to be there on the D10R project and was asked to have a look at it. So the first thing I did after giving it the once-over and finding nothing obvious was to call the engine guru up in Lafayette IN at the 3500 engine plant. He patched the engine software guy in on the call and we started talking about what could be wrong. After a while the software guy asked what the atmospheric pressure was - pull it up on the screen - 57kPa (about 8.3psi). "That can't be right" says the software guy. "Hold on" says I, "let me pop over to the 793 that's parked next to it and I'll have a look what it says" A couple of minutes later having climbed down & up again and being totally out of breath (engines are not the only things that struggle at high altitudes) I powered up the 793 - 58kPa or 8.4psi - close enough. I can hear frantic keyboard activity in the background. All of a sardine - "the atmospheric compensation values only go down as far as 9.5psi" says the software guy. Light bulb moment ................ The following day I had a development software file to load into the engine with an extended range of atmospheric pressure values and that fixed the problem. A permament fix came a couple of months later. That's what I liked back in those days about Uncle Cat. A phone call to the right person got **** done. Doesn't happen today.
I'm curious as well as it didn't happen all at once it appears to have been coming apart over time. No previous history on trucks doesn't help they were auction buys site unseen from Texas is all I know and this is first major repair needed on engine since they have been here .
Maybe it climbed through the Rocky Mountains a time of two?
Or was trashed and thrashed by an oilfield hand that ran it like he stole it. I've seen that more often than not working in West Texas. One guy I worked with ran a 2500 series pickup 50,000 miles on original oil from factory. Something like 2 years of driving, he just didn't care. It just had to stay together to 100,000 before he got a new one and the old one went to auction.
To finish my reply in post #36. One can see that the largest part of the what's left of that valve is on the coolest side of the cylinder. With the age of the engine and where it came from and the fact of it being a intake valve, I would suspect it had run along time at zero lash or .008 tight or more. Carbon more than likely got trapped between valve face and valve seat, which started to erode the valve face and valve could no longer be cooled by it's interaction with valve seat, plus the valve seat had a hot spot in that area. The seats are harder material than the valve. We are experiencing some similar issues with the DD15's the company has, several have had to have the cylinder head replaced because the valves sinking into valve seats or stem stretch. Three engines that come to mind turned over uneven on start up and just were not smooth and slightly down on power, all of those had the overheads run at 100,000 which is normal after break in. Then it was a constant issue of needing the valves adjusted because of valve seat issue. One was just finished this week under warranty, all are warranted. but MB/FRTLNR has a problem on some that they won't discuss but it's covered. Years ago when I worked auto machine, a independent shop brought in a cylinder head off a Mazda 808 with a burned exhaust valve on #2 cylinder, for a rebuild. The shop picked the head up the next afternoon. Three days later I get a call that it lost compression on #2, I told them remove it and I will take care of it and throw in another set of gaskets. Shop brings it in I replace the same exhaust valve and noticed it was torched in the same area of the exhaust seat as the first one, seat looked normal. I completely disassembled head and ran it through the parts washer reassembled they came and picked it up. Mind you the first exhaust valve I installed lasted less than 30 miles, a TRW valve. Two day's later the shop plus the owner of the Mazda were at my shop reaming my *** that I did a lousy job and didn't know what I was doing. I had the head on the cylinder head bench and noticed the #2 exhaust valve was burned in the exact same spot and it looked like the others, just like it had been flame cut with a torch. I told them hold on a minute, grabbed the pneumatic spring compressor dropped all the valves out, then called a part time worker over and told him to take it to the welding shop down the street and have them cut it in two where I marked, the shop owner and owner of the Mazda about crapped. I told both {If I'm wrong I will buy a new head-If I'm right you will buy a new head-Deal} Came back with the head---and there it was--a piece of silicon casting material wrapped around the #2 exhaust seat inside the coolant jacket, The rust and corrosion had built up to a point that the exhaust seat just couldn't cool anymore in that area. Owner bought a New head.
So that is why we go in for valve clearance adjustments, and also take care of the cooling system. Funny thing is, I run valve clearance on little air cooled generator engines all the time, interval is only 400 hours, and find zero or negative clearance all the time on the exhaust valves, but they never seem to burn. On the other hand I run them on Kubota diesels and the like at 5000 hours, and wonder why I bothered to open it up, they are usually within spec. But in generators reliability is the #1 concern, you do it because the PM book says you do it.
I'm not surprised with a Kubota all our refrigeration units have that engine-Zero problems.
Series 60's are some of the worst for having tight intake valves after many hours of service. .009 intake lash .020 exhaust lash. I have found that after setting overheads most drivers comment the jakes are slightly stronger, It's not uncommon to find intakes at zero or 1/8 turn tight to zero lash. Cat E models can do the same thing. We had nine 15 liter Cummins I ran overheads on those and found intakes tight some at zero.
And that in a nutshell dear readers, is why you run valve sets .......
Thats likely what caused my valve failure then.it was an intake valve . I need to check the other truck asswell. Most of my macks should be good I run overhead whenever a valve cover is off for any reason even if I recently did it as pm , I have changed about every valve cover gasket in the fleet on my macks .
I have a recon head, oil pump, fuel supply pump and turbo , waiting on the actual overhaul kit yet was told Friday or Monday, so Monday it is i guess or hope . I have the deck cleaned ,just need to clean counter bores and sleeve sealing area. Even got 1000 bucks off from cummin rebates that peterbilt dealer does the work on to redeem so i dont have to mess with it. In preparation for cleaning parts I dug out the solvent tank throughly clean it and refilled with nice new solvent. So I should be set to go after buying 900 dollars worth of tools 560 of which boss man reimburse for specialty tools . Others i needed for work and my hotrod project at home .
No tool porn photos.?
Cam gear puller and cam wedge kit with crank lock pins , apparently 3 different styles plus the jake brake feeler guage
These are mine everywhere else I had all special stuff supplied . But I have a friend I help out on his trucks and I will need that torque wrench for my cars transmission when I do new engine transmission combo
Ok what the heck cummins ? This is cylinder 1 hole behind the front cover inside the block . Are they all like this ?
Looks like it had a issue earlier in life and some epoxy was used, not uncommon to find in the bottom liner bores on a cat engine. But that looks very interesting, think it would be possible for a straight on photo. You should have the Vin run and see what was done in the past under warranty.
No epoxy anywhere. I noticed that bolt head when I started spraying down the insides with varsol. I will take a picture from underneath in the crankcase tomorrow and look on quickserve at block and front cover stuff tomorrow. Head appeared to have never been off before but looks can be deceiving. Im sure someone put rod bearing in before the upper shells looked to good to have 562k miles on them .
boss man has to buy another tool also a ring compressor with adapter for the anti polishing ring sleeves. I found them decent priced on Amazon though 378 bucks.
Looked all thru cummins in block and front structure saw nothing about this odd bolt , you would only be able to access with the liner out , my guess is it is some kind of fix to a casting flaw found when block was machined . Needless to say I am not touching it , liners are installed with seals after dry fitting and measuring, waiting on another tool.
Is there a hollow chamber in the block right behind where that bolt is installed.?
And what is the other circle in the picture at about 11 o’clock? The casting looks flawed around it. That flat head cap screw certainly does look out of place.
could that bolt possibly retain something to the front of the block inside the timing cover behind the timing gears ie. thrust plate, oil deflector or something?
No clue nige you couldn't pay me enough to disturb it lol
No searched all thru cummins quickserve last few notes while waiting on parts
That is the bolt it is a chamfered bolt . It is very out of place and it does appear to be repairing a flaw possibly after machining they noticed it and repaired rather then melt down .
I was referring to the circled circle. Probably the end of a fastener from the other side.
Correct it's just the end of a bolt coming from front structure .
Is the engine a recon? Serial number starting with a 6 not a 7? What is the s/n I have seen some weird things on recons. Have seen 2 recons where the plasma welding/ resurfacing failed on the liner. Also have seen a couple with ground down cranks. The "feet" that the liner sits on identifies it as an early small bore engine with 150mm liners. The later big bore and small bore did not have the "feet" any more.
Original engine 2007, reman liners that sounds like a bad idea and apparently was . I will get you number tomorrow. If you want any pictures request fast . Liners are installed doing mains in the morning and if my ring compressor comes in along with rod bearings the holes are getting filled. And new recon head is going on.
I'd be curious to know how many hours you'll have into this when you make smoke. A pretty good independent I know claims it takes over 80 hours to do an inframe, and that's if the counterbores pass.
We usually quote around 55. That includes cutting the block. If you do enough block cutting 3hrs tops to cut one. If you only do it a couple times a year it can be closer to 6 to cut. Good techs can usually do a ISX rebuild in 40-45hrs. Faster then that starts cutting alot of corners.
I am not keeping track of hours I have as much time reading as I do cleaning and actually wrench time at this point, this is first of any cummins I have been into this deep. Serial number is 79317363. Ring compressor arrived still no rod bearings though.as an estimate now that i have tooling and knowledge probably a full week to do one 55-60 hours if it is same arrangement as this one plus time for broken bolts.
Not much history on that motor. Ecm in 2009. VGT actuator and egr valve in 2013. It was off warranty right after that.
Nice, you must have access to cummins info . Off warranty had a turbo a year and a half ago and an ecm 2 years ago. Additional parts with overhual is another turbo it is passing oil into air piping. Fuel supply pump, egr valve it is leaking i think (maybe condensation,) , havent taste tested goop to see if coolant . Air compressor and power steer pump .new oil pump also
Holy ****. Must be a nice truck to spend this much on it....
Cost alot more more to replace truck .
Now im getting somewhere.
Ok after using quickserve for a little while now the parts side is ok its a little hard to find somethings but the service side is top notch go to engine assembly and it goes step by step in proper order of reassembly with torque specs and any tsb or other important information hyper linked into it . I have to order a cam gear washer now , but I would not have known without the linked information . Oil pan is back on . Will have injectors probably Tuesday morning . Gonna slide cams back in tomorrow and get rest of little parts needed like that manifold bolts ect. Just little bits I didn't know if they came in the overhual kit or not .
Impact wrench powerfull enough to get the 90 degrees on the head bolts or did you have to pull it?
Not looking to start a war, but if I caught someone hammering my head bolts in with an impact, let's just say there would be a problem.
Yes barely at times . I used my baby multiplier a couple of times .
It is recommended way of doing it per cummins , the bolt does not care how it is turned 90 degrees.
No war shimmy , it is very awkward to use a multiplier on a head bolt, it took 8 foot of leverage to break those buggers free when I took apart just so I could get them out with an impact . Torque to yield fasteners are not fully understood by many , after initial torque is set , why would that bolt care how it is turned , it does the same thing either by hand or with an impact. It is probably the sight and principle of it when someone is seen turning torque with an impact. I quit telling anyone what I was doing when asked . If it is more then 60 degrees and I can get air on it controllably , I will be putting air on it . Heads mains rods any torque to yield fastener . Old guys at dealer I worked at torqued the 600 lbs ft cat mains with an impact and called it a day , that I did not agree with there was plenty of young ones around that could have help pull the torque wrench.
how about that! i learned something new this morning. i would have thought the impact would have put unwanted extra stress into the headbolts, especially if they are the one-time use bolts
A friend of mine has been a Cummins mechanic for many years. He was torquing a head with an impact gun years ago when the supervisor caught him and chewed him out. He asked why it was wrong and supervisor couldn't answer, it then showed up in service manual as the way to do it. I love torquing by degrees, impact gun is so much easier than rowing the boat with the torque wrench!
**** the bed------------------I've been using a impact on Cat, Cummins for years and years, On a inframe cranking down a Cat main bolt with multiplier or just a 600 lb torquer-- I'm too damn old for that Horse ****----------Snap On 1300 3/4 drive, mark the socket and hit the trigger. I don't know how many I've done--and never ever had a issue. Years ago rolling bearings in a Big Cam III in a Pete cab over/ There is a aluminum belly strap at the back of the pan to remove and two solid aluminum stubs left hanging from frame. Last bolt to torque, the barrel ratchet gave/popped just before brake over 305 lbs, My left hand went straight into the hanging stub on right side, my middle finger and index took it head on-Exploded the ends of both fingers--bone hanging out. Fortunately there was a visiting er doc from Harbor View at the local hospital that day-he saved my two fingers. Want a rant---------------------Fu@k those torque wrenches when I can gun'em !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whenever there is an easier procedure there is always someone who comes along and says that that the easier procedure is not valid, and we should keep doing it the hard way, without giving very good reasons.... Not directing this at Shimmy, you must have heard it from someone somewhere at sometime as well, but they were wrong. There are any number of people in every arena that just like to make things up.
I use Detroit peanut butter on the threads and cover the head bolts and washers with moly engine assembly lube, mains and rod bolts/nuts moly engine lube. Bolts/nuts spin right down. Cat requires covering the head bolts completely with moly. Keep using those torque wrenches and rowing the crap out of your selves--When you get old you will be visiting the doctor who replaces shoulder parts and rotator cups not to mention neck problems.
There will always be a difference of opinions on the matter but here is my take. An impact wrench in the hands of someone skilled is a great asset. Someone unskilled though and the results could be disastrous. Picturing some noob hammering up tire lugs on his pickup with a strong 3/4 inch gun.
That's why you take your work to a reputable mechanic or ask a bunch of questions.
The 300ftlbs was bad enough by hand , I would have probably hurt myself doing the 90Degree by hand . It doesn't sound like much until people realize it was a 3/4 inch impact with good size air line struggling with no extension just a socket.
All this talk of torque makes me glad we have Hytorcs.......... If you jib at 300 ft lbs what would you be like with 3000 on a 789 front suspension.?
I do those mack u bolts at 1500 with a 4-1 multiplier . If I worked with mining equipment im sure we would have plenty of nice toys to play with.
You're describing virtually every tire shop here. Run the nuts on with a big impact, then go with the torque wrench and every single one clicks instantly because they are way over torqued. Then the odd guy like me who watches tells them to take them off and do it properly, then they bitch and complain.
Ok so engine has been assembled for a couple weeks at least fixing all the previous shoddy repairs I think took longer then the overhual .having to stop and work on other trucks slows down stuff also . I managed to light it off for the first time today , and immediately found 2 problems . 1 as soon as oil got to the top end the Jake's started working so I have a stuck solenoid or bad o rings letting oil get to the Jake rockers , 2 it doesn't shut down rite away when the key is turned off . I will sort those problems out Monday afternoon hopefully .
Ok all my problems are stemming from 6 exchange injectors I got from fuel shop in Tennessee. Number 5 and 6 cylinder I can hold my hand on manifold 1-4 i have to check with heat gun but one of them is bad fuel knocking and misfiring and apparently leaking fuel once engine runs for a little bit it runs of the flooded cylinder it seems till fuel is gone . I am not pleased , and await a phone call . I will probably remove all 6 and send back for them to make right . So for now the mail box stays on the truck she is a garage queen at the moment lol.
I will add i dont have cummins computer so cant check crap with it and truck was previously modified by previous owners, boss does not want to make compliant so I have to watch who works on truck if it ever goes out for repair .
That stinks. Good luck- and I've been enjoying the progress.
Thanks , I kind of become at peace with this model of engine it really wasn't a bad overhual to do I was just unfamiliar with it . Grey engine mack I can dismantle truck and engine and throw all bolts in same bucket and still put bolts where they go , I had to be more careful with this one . And actually lay stuff out as I disassemble... more to come it seems .
We had a customer with a set of six aftermarket injectors. Same thing, it would run on after getting shut off. We would replace the problem injector then it would be cured for a week then another would go down. Customer went back to OEM after that. We would find the problem injector preforming the fuel injector leak test and seeing where the pocket of combustion gas would shoot out the metering valve. Problem injectors were missing the check valve when they were pulled out.
At least mine are oem rebuild but an independent shop but dang i didn't want to here something like that . If they won't get me out of engine break in I am going to disassemble one last time and send them all back for genuine cummins reman , how do you identify which injector it is I am clueless on these electronic engines with mechanical injectors .
You have quickserve right? Troubleshooting and fault code manual. Symptom troubleshooting then engine runs on. The test is in there. I think it is also under the injectors in the service manual. You need a special plate that bolts on in place of the metering actuator though. Other option for a run on is bad guts in the fuel shutoff valve. Decently common on higher milage engines.
Awesome on point I'm going to whip up a homemade tool soon as I can get back on it i have a truck with brake valve issues come into the shop . Im glad its rainy and they aren't doing much .never had any problems with shut off before overhual but I did take it all apart cleaned inspected and reassembled already . Thanks pushbroom much appreciated I had never gone into that section of quickserve it hadn't even crossed my mind .
You have quickserve right? Troubleshooting Ok made my own tool #2 fail , number 5-6 tips not even blackened, fail on non genuine recon exchange units . That won't happen again . I have quick serve but my serial number is 79317363 . What do you tighten injector rocker shafts too . It says 50lbs foot but the step after says loosen on at a time tighten to 22 lbs foot plus 60 degrees from center out but it shows the valve rocker shaft in the picture . I am scratching my head on that one pushbroom can you enlighten me as to proper specs for injector shafts. Thanks in advance . [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] Your homemade tool turned out nice! 50ft to set them then back off and do the 22 + 60 torque sequence. I think what they are meaning is that you will always have to compress an injector to install the shaft and doing the 22ftlbs may not be enough to fully seat the shaft before doing the 60 degrees. The 50ftlbs should squish the shaft down tight and the backing then off til they are loose and doing the 22 +60. That procedure looks updated, the injector shaft used to only be the 50ftlbs and nothing more.
Walker, have you ever heard of Premco? We tried a set of their injectors for our N14 on advice from several guys I know, and they have been great. $200 exchange, they sent them out same day, we got them 2 days later, sent the cores back in the packaging the new ones came in. They even sent a prepaid shipping label and a couple of teeshirts.
Your homemade tool turned out nice! 50ft to set them then back off and do the 22 + 60 torque sequence. I think what they are meaning is that you will always have to compress an injector to install the shaft and doing the 22ftlbs may not be enough to fully seat the shaft before doing the 60 degrees. The 50ftlbs should squish the shaft down tight and the backing then off til they are loose and doing the 22 +60. That procedure looks updated, the injector shaft used to only be the 50ftlbs and nothing more.[/QUOTE] Thanks
Never heard of them . But will look into it . I have another one of these engines that sounds and runs like crap .
I'm not surprised, I installed a set of Cat reman C15 injectors and one by one about a week apart those started to fail. Cat covered them actually they just replaced the whole set.
Overhaul complete. It now sounds good have one heater hose to replace and some odds and ends on truck to fix . It is ready for a couple of break in runs once that is done .
The fail rate on rebuilt injectors is over 30%. With that fact, they shouldn't even be rebuilding them at all.
Can only comment for Cat but for certain types of injector the Reman option is no longer available.
I tell you 1st hand that we tried rebuilt injectors in one of our ISX engines and it was an absolute nightmare. By genuine Cummins injectors and you will be way better off and have a warranty.
Problem is it costs more for these ***** injectors than it used to cost to rebuild an entire engine.
Injectors for a DD15-16------$980.00 each. It's imperative that filters be changed on time every time and clean filtered fuel at the fuel island.
We have 63 tractors 378 injectors $370,440 dollars wrapped up in injectors alone.
Next engine will be cummins recon . Any cost savings is down the toilet now having to do it twice . Truck itself still needs repairs but dang I hate doing stuff twice especially when its not my fault.
I think the tolerances have gotten too tight in them to be able to reman them reliably. And the older IH truck engines with heui injectors can't buy new unless aftermarket , and the oem reman are very short lived i would call it 100 percent failure within 6 months . Lol
It's why I don't do engine work anymore-it's not cost effective-run it till 50,000 miles left on warranty and dump it.
Every 5000 hours we put injectors in our machines. This tier 4 and tier 3 stuff is murder on them. $5-6k each time.
It’s like all the other components in a machine. All part of the cost of doing business.
Do you have problems with fuel filters plugging.? Generally I’ve seen that most injectors go the same life as the engine from one overhaul to the next with maybe a 10% failure rate in between overhauls. That’s using new injectors at overhaul BTW.
That's a fact, but people don't realize the amount until talking high volume of equipment. One to five engines seems like a bunch, then there's the 50 plus engine amount.
You’re right. Multiply the cost per component by the number of components you have in circulation and all of a sardine you’re talking real money..... I just figured out that the job site I was on up to the end of last year has $15m invested in haul truck engines alone.
Yeah, one component like a complete replacement engine times 50 0r what ever--could make a nice holiday to a TT race.
All this may be the new way of doing business, but the little companies get just stroked to the max when things like this go bad. There were plenty of pump and fuel injector failures when I worked for the Cat dealer during the Heui time frame. Plenty of little contractors got burned enough to just quit business. The cascade of failures were getting started when the common rail stuff was coming on line. Add in all the waco failures from the emission controls with DPF and then add DEF with expensive new maintenance every 4 to 5K hours and you better start raising your prices. If you can't do that, then you are in the wrong business.
You absolutely have to cycle out these machines every 5000 hours. Our processor machines we will keep 10 to 12000 hours so we get the life out of the head but our John Deere and Hitachi shovels go just before 5000 hours so they still have some warranty
Those all over the road trucks? Oldest in use truck is an 83 mack r600 tractor. the dumptruck fleet fleet ranges from 97 to 2005 all macks no volvo engines .
Yes.------------You have to buy and use the warranty program. One of our tractors just had $25,000 worth of work done, engine plus emission all under warranty. 420,000 miles on it, it will run till 450,000 and traded off when 5 new T990's show up in May.
110% have to buy & use the warranty program!!
Little update, once I go So umm I found out the hard way these 2 truck we have with this engine I cannot warranty anything on them because of unmentionable reasons , that new turbo I put on as part of the overhual blew the hot side wheel up on its first test drive , so we ate a 4200.00 dollar turbo . Other then that the truck runs great and is probably getting close to its first oil change .
I doubt the block will pass liner protrusion with that many miles.
Do they not counterbore and shim these? Or is that an inherent fault?
That would be a possibility...........if only you could find someone to do it now days.
Yes counter bores can be cut for shims, but because of the use of lower press fit liners it's needed less often.
I updated post , what are you talking about someone else's engine ?, mine had perfect liner protrusion , the machine marks were still in the counterbores even .
Gotcha. Thanks. I apparently wasn’t tracking very well.