Anyone here know anything about timing a cummins NH 220 engine, its the engine prior to a 855 cummins, some call them the same engine depending on who you talk to, it has a PT fuel system on it, first one I"ve ever worked on. Here's the question I have, there are two methods to time the engine, one for torque method, the other for dial indicator method I think its called, but there are two seperate settings on the valves, .011 cold setting on the intake valves for one method which we used and the torque method calls for .016 cold setting for intake vavles, exhaust vavles cold are either .022 for dial indicator method, .029 for torque method, first off, why two different settings and two different methods? Next question is, there are two seperate torque settings for the rocker housing specs on the fuel injectors, one for aluminum housing, the other for cast housing, but the rocker assembly is made of cast, which calls for a spec of 48 inch pounds of torque, and the aluminum calls for a tourque of 72 inch pounds of torque, which the housing around the rockers is made of aluminum which the covers bolt to, anyone know what they refer to when they say aluminum rocker housing?? I called my tech guy, who's wouldn't you know is out on vacation at the moment and is the only one with experience in this vintange and model of engine, and nobody else knows anything about them, their like me that know pencil injector, standard pump systems. The next question is timing, does it matter what order you time the engine in, once the timing marks show up, adjust the cylinder with the loose vavles and move onto the next timing mark, is my way of thinking or is this wrong? Next is engine rotation, to me its always been done, from standing looking at the flywheel over the engine to the fan assembly, right hand rotation to me is clockwise rotation or as the crank pulley and flywheel spin from the top to the right is clockwise and right hand rotation, is this correct or wrong? Anyone with experience please chime in and give me some assistance, as they say things went wrong and now we're trying to figure out what and where.
I would say right hand rotation is clockwise looking from the front of the engine. Which is the opposite of what you describe. Sorry but I am not any help regarding PT injector timing.
Randy sounds like you have the book on these and yea it gets confusing so use the torque method,yes they are talking about the housing the rocker shaft goes through and the valve cover bolts to also called the rocker box dont over think this if it is steel 48 if it is aluminum 72, 11&22 on the valves has worked well for me ,Start with the mark on 1-6 vs if the #1 valves are not loose bar the engine the way it runs to 1-6vs again set #1 bar to 3-5vs set #3. and so on till you get all 6,takes 2 revs of the pully,yes you can start anywhere but # 1is less confusing (for me anyway)We can debate the rotation thing later with this thing running good as new .(maybe) Hope this helps
I do plenty of these over head set jobs on Cummins motors, all engines as a standard fit run clockwise from the front, non standard engines in boats etc can be anti-clock when 2 engines are set together 1 running in clock rotation the other running opposite, its not the common thing to find anti-clock rotation engines in anything running on the road or site, the front being opposite end to the fly wheel (fan end) on the auxilary drive pully is 4 marks and a pointer cast into the gear cover plate, the VS marks are valve set and the TC mark is top dead centre, the simplest method of setting the injectors is the torque set (Inch Pounds) I mark all the set points clearly with a Tippex marker as my eyes are a bit crap? then check the TDC mark to establish the auxilary gear is fitted correcty (2 valves on overlap-rocking) then turn the engine to the first VS mark setting the injector first on the cylinder the valve set last, the compressor is timed on these engines also.
In the book there is a chart for adjusting the injectors and valves, with the 1-6vs mark you adjust injector 3 valves on 5, the 2-5 vs mark injector 6 valve 3, 3-4vs mark injector 2 vavles 6, the 1-6 vs mark its injector4 vavles 2 the 2-5 mark injector1 vavles 4 and the 3-4vs mark its injector 5 vavles 1, so in order to check to find out which cylinder is firing those vavles should be loose at the time it states or I need to roll the engine over again till it is, then I've figured out which set of timing marks I'm on, is this correct or did I not understand this?
You are not looking at (top stop) injectors in the book are you?
In the service book it will give the differing methods of doing the overhead set, if you are doing the torque set method that is the inch pound thing, this is usualy done with a 3/8 drive low set wrench, look under the correct heading its fairly straight forward, or pay for an Air ticket for me and I will do it for you for now't, the torque set method is the easy route and can be done on top stop injectors, the book will have the common methods listed plus Cummins has a very good service help line to guide you if you take no notice of us, the more times you do the overhead set on these engines the simpler it gets.
This will not work on a nh220 ,set the injector then valves on the same cylinder set #1 on 1-6vs then turn to the next (vs) mark and set the next cylinder in the firing order (#5) and so on.
hmmm...i remeber it when accessory pulley lines up with 1-6vs and either of #6 valves rocking you set tha #1 injector and set #1 valves as #1 cylinder is at its top dead center and both valves off camshaft lobes. then as you rotate to 2-5vs the #5 valves will be at its top dead center and ready to set its valves and injector. i think injectors are at 60 lb. in. you continue this process making 2 full rotations to set all valves and injectors. firing order is of course... "Too young, Too old, and Just Right!" that is 15-36-24 ----or 1-5-3-6-2-4 Haha.
oh...and like some1 said up there pretty much every made in the good ol usa engine such as this ol cummins is clockwise from the front. i have built several Duetz an Hatz engines which i think are german, they are clockwise from the rear...arsebackards...and the #1 hole on water cooled Duetz such as 1 in a Hamn roller/compactor the #1 cylinder is in the rear. Gotta keep an eye on some of them engines. Reminds me of when i built my first gas ford v8 engine (always rode chevy back then) i was plugging in the spark plug wires like a chevy. thing run like crap! but cummins, cat, john deere, perkins even most all komatsu engines are as stated above....clockwise from front.
A slight correction on engine rotation, Deutz also Hatz engines still rotate clockwise from the front like a standard engine (opposite end to Flywheel) but they count the cylinders as from the Flywheel end, so No 1 cylinder is closest to the Flywheel and the cylinder block has numbers cast into it to point this detail out, a common detail in anti clock rotation engines within the U.K. was the letter Z in the engine number, it is very uncommon to find an anti clock rotation engine in anything other than boats or the odd little dumper.
An update on the project, after ordering the service manual from cummins for the serial number off my engine, we were up and going to dismantle and then reassemble the heads, injectors and pump along with a few other simple things, then came adjusting the vavles and injectors, shouldn't be that hard, just follow the procedure in the book step by step, which we did, after that failed came the dozens of phone calls to everyone I knew existed on the planet that might be able to help out, even took the manual to a few guys since they were confused as to what I read them out of the manual, came up with nothing for help, gave it some thought and posted the problem here on HEF, along came you guys and filled in a few gaps, then a private message from shopguy with a phone number to call him, after some chatting on the phone he informed me what went wrong and how the book misled me into doing the wrong procedure to my engine for adjusting vavles and injectors, in my book which he came up with one very simular to mine, we read it over together and after understanding what and where I went wrong, the book is combining sereral techniques into the same explaination, simple yet very confusing if you don't know for sure how or what your doing on this series of engine, he talked me through the proper procedure and low and behold it worked as he stated it would. I did damage the push tubes for the injectors and need to tear it back apart again and put those in new, we're pulling the injectors as well to see what damage I did to those and have them rechecked again, but at least now, I know and understand how to do the procedure on this series of engine, despite all the problems I've encountered over the deal, I can't say thank you enough to you all and especially shopguy for the assistance you've given me, without you all here, I'd end up scrapping the dozer, nobody locally could do a thing either over the phone or onsite, so again thanks guys.
Randy, is this Cummins in a Komatsu D65 by any chance, they have the single spring 4 valve head, but the injector setting torque is different to truck engines, it states the torque set on the engine data plate, if they are set to tight its hard to start, to loose it will smoke like a pig, if you need the correct setting torque just ask, the Komatsu Cummins motors are down rated and are not totaly the same as the standard Cummins unit. p.s. Randy setting the injectors is not setting the "Timing" that is done by shimming out or in the cam followers with gaskets 2 cylinders at a point as there is 3 cam box's.
tctractors, yes its in a komatsu dozer a d85 not d65, not for sure if it has a single spring four vavle head, there is nothing on the name plate of the engine for any setting, its a reman and the name plate is different than a standard plate, it has the bearings as standard and a serial number, engine number, liner number, rated hp, and rated rpm's and thats about it, nothing about torque settings. And yes I mistyped the "timing" sorry about that, but after the last few months, I'm lucky to be able to recall my own name, let alone type it correctly, as they say when your frustration level peaks, other things get neglected and you develop that funnel vision focus thing. Whats the single spring four vavle head, mine has four valves, but whats the single spring you refer to, and whats the spec of the injector for the komatsu dozer, we upped the hp on this unit from 180 to 240 or there abouts and am putting on a larger tubo charger as well, I'm sure there's a techinical term for it, but it came down the one my parts guys could find and also get to fit the engine and be a bolt in replacement, there were no readable numbers on the turbo, and komatsu and cummins were no help with this at all, so we got what we could get that worked as they say.
Randy, on the valves (4 per Cylinder) the usual setup on Cummins is Double springs (2 springs) 1 inside the other, on low power or reduced power (down rated) engines they often have just the single spring setup, the parts for these old Cummins engines are getting short and costly in the U.K. and the Komatsu Cummins is slightly different to the standard built unit, the cranks dont just swap over there is a bit of machining to be done to sort things, the injectors are the main problem often in the U.K. as its hard to find someone to sort them even Cummins, So lets hope you have not cracked the cups? the Komatsu D85 tractor is my top bit of Iron, the more you flog em' the better they run, I will check today on the injector setting on these motors off top of my head 60" inch pounds comes up, but my head is full of crap so I will check in my service data, as you have had the engine to bits did you fit new valve springs as they are often prone to going weak or breaking?
The remaned engine isn't that old nor has that many hours on it, it was a complete crate engine at the time I was told, including heads, the only thing the owner thought was taken off the old engine was the turbo and exhaust, starter and alternator, but the guy that worked for him and ran the machine and put the engine in died and his funeral was the day before I looked at the dozer, they put it up for sale and had located another newer dozer with a cab with heat, air and joystick controls for the older guy to run easier but he died of a heart attack before they could pick up the newer machine, nobody there including the owner could run a dozer, so they cancelled the deal and were putting up for sale thier smaller dozer as well, he had a large one for major work and a smaller one for finish type work. The owner was a farmer and they worked only on thier own farms, nothing for hire. I had the heads off because I thought therre was a head gasket leaking or weeping, the turbo was shot anyhow and we wanted a few more hp out of the dozer, I took the heads into get worked on, they resurfaced them and called to tell me there was nothing they could find wrong with them but if I wanted he'd grind the valves and check all the springs anyhow, which he did, when I went to pick them up, he told me they couldn't be that old or have many hours on them, everything was in excellent shape and none of the springs nor vavles needed replacing, he just touched up the vavles and seats slightly is all and put everything back together, he asked how it could be that good on that old of machine, I told him the story and he said from what he saw on the heads it was probably true, there was no way it had thousands of hours of use and was 30 plus years old. I got about the same story from the guy that worked on the pump and injectors, but I'll admit I've never delt with him before, my usual guy who does my fuel injection work doesn't work on pt systems so I had to find someone else to do this work, so I don't know personally anything about this guys work, only from what I've been told by others, he told me to bring the injectors back in and he'd look them over again.
Randy, summat dont add up, NH 220 as fitted to D65 and D85 early tractors does not sport a Turbo, the D85 with the extra bit of wizz (turbo) is clamped onto the NT 855C motor on the series 18 tractor??? it would be fitted with the Holms Cosset made turbo, the injector setting torque is the same at 55 inch pounds cold with the valve lash at inlet 0.36 exhaust 0.69mm, the 855 engine has 855 cast into the side of the block in big scary script, this engine would have double spings on the valves, I wish in the very start of this tread you had posted a bit more detail and possibly a serial no plus a few picks of the engine sat in its home, I would have told you instantly how to do the overhead set without you damaging the innards.
Randy, Are there 6 external fuel lines going to each injector? Or is it a single line going to the end of either the front or rear head? That will tell which engine it is.
tctractors, been there done that, the 855 is in the d85-18 dozers the d85-12 dozers like I have sport the nh220 cummins engine, its cast in the side of the block in bold letters, same as the 855 is on the side of the block in the -18 machines, this did come with a turbo, it shows pictures of it in the shop manual the owner gave me with the machine, mine was rated at 180 hp its stamped on the remaned tag, as far as what turbo is/was on it, we can't tell it was so shot no letters or numbers or name was readable anymore, komatsu told me to contact cummins for a turbo, they'd end up getting it form cummins anyhow, but cummins wanted a lot of dollars for their tubo, so I shopped eslewhere for one, all the parts I've ordered are for a nh220 engine from cummins. It has non top stop injectors in the engine, I learned this during the process, there are two fuel lines going to each injector a pressure and return line. I wanted a -18 machine because I do have other 855 cummins engines in trucks, I really like the engine, but all the -18 machines I found were either way overpriced or a complete basket case that would take years to put back together again and get running. The shop manual that came with the dozer, didn't cover the engine vavle adjustments or injectors adjustments procedures at all, it did do a good job with the rest of the machine though, thats the reason why I ordered the new engine manual from cummins for it. Hope this answers some of the questions, I have no idea what komatsu put overseas in other parts of the world, what engines were in it or how they were set up, all I know is whats in mine and a few others -12's and -18's I looked at and what prior owners and mechanics told me about the machines, here locally to me.
tctractors, here's a bit of info I learned yesterday, first off the tubo I got didn't fit at all, not even close in fact, I never compared it to the old one as I picked it up, just glanced at it, the guy who sold me it never did either really, there were no numbers left to read anything on it, we both just assumed it would be a direct replacement, so after a few minutes of cussing when things went aray on the assembly process and a dozen phone calls later, let weeks in time go by and here's the answer we both got. The engine serial number crossed with the dozers serial number resulted in a turbo that is as rare as hens teeth apparently, there is only two turbo's ever made that fit this engine and its application without revamping things under the hood and having to make adapter brackets and some major retorfits. So since there were none available in the usa the turbo place had to resort to plan B, find a dozer with a turbo on that the housing was good, which took some time, but they did find one, after some work on the housing and reused my compressor housing, we now have a turbo again that should work, except I need a adapter from the turbo to the exhaust pipe, in order for the clamps to clamp tight the turbo has a flat flange and I can only get tapered clamps, so in comes the machine shop who's making the adapter for me. When questioned whats different about the turbo that makes it so rare, we were told by cummns [eventually] and also komatsu that it was only designed for the nh220 in the d85 application and since only the last few -12 machines came with a turbo just before they went to the 855 engine it was extremely rare indeed, not to mention it was a discontinued turbo decades ago, or as we were told, its about as rare as hens teeth, now thats a new official term coming from a rebuild shop I'd never heard in reference to a component before. When I asked how come no name tag on the rebuilt turbo, the answer was we couldn't read the salvaged one any better than yours, the housing was in better shape and still needed to be remachined, so when they were done, they just put a tag on it that says "turbo" and thats it, but did put the part numbers of the cartridge they used on the tag in case we ever need to do it again, then they put on my old compressor housing and now we have an almost instant one month later, turbo to put on. Like I told the guy, gosh it only needed a turbo, any idiot could handle that, how hard could it possibly be, after he laughed he said, I've been in business 30 plus years, up till now I always felt the same way, this is the only one I've ever had problems with in all the years of being in business. So basically your right, they didn't come with a turbo, at least not most of them, only the later one's just before they went to the -18 machines with a 855 in it. But with my serial number this machine did come from the factory with one, so if you stumble across one with a turbo on it from the factory, take a picture of it, cause its a rare one indeed, I asked about in the usa or other countries and nobody knew if it made a difference as to where they went or not. Looking back it probably would have been cheaper and easier to just revamp under the hood and get an adapter plate made to go from the manifold to the turbo, so any turbo would fit, but I didn't think it would be a big deal to find a turbo that fit either and by the time I got an answer as to what was going on, plan B was already in action, so I just waited it out is all.
Well Randy, we always find out the hard way eh' the Holms Cosset turbo I spoke of is probably better known now as Holset, the turbo's on Komatsu machinery are well known for being a pain, the 155 tractor runs a Komatsu built turbo this being 1 of the very few made by them, its cost of replacement is in the £0'000s making grown men cry, the 220 engine is now a costly engine to rebuild also a scarce banger now in the U.K. I must say I am impressed with the service you have been metered out with via the Turbo shop, how about a few picks of the tractor?
Never gave it a thought to post pictures of it, I'll see what I can do, right now it got pushed into the back corner of one of my sheds to wait for parts to show up again, my injector guy is looking them over again before I put them back in, they should be done by the end of next week, maybe if I live long enough we can some work done yet this fall with the machine, without problems.
good info here. i need to do the same to the D65 i just purchased. ( valves and injectors). im also looking for a manual for for my machine. i need to pull the injector pump and have rebuilt. it leaks everywhere.
Which engine is in your D65 arduece? If its an older one, you also need to know about top stop injectors, non top stop injectors and also how many different cam shafts were offered in the older engines, it helps to determine which engine timing procedure you use, something I learned the hard way on this ordeal, and also expensive way. Hey, also welcome to the forum arduece, its a wonderful site to learn a lot from, all you have to do is ask questions.
its a 78 model D65E-6 serial number 26148356. yeah i was reading the ordeal you went thru. my injector pump is leaking and i plan on pulling it having it rebuilt/resealed and adjusting valves and injectors during the process. im still looking for a good service manual and parts manual. i found some on eBay. machine i bought is in real good shape all but it has been sitting for years. fuel system was full of thrash/sludge and has a oil leak underneath due to belly pan not being cleaned out and mud rusted a pinhole in a metal line.it doesn't idle or accelerate smooth like it should but hope all this clears it up. thanks for the welcome. i noticed shopguy had some input on you issue and that he is also from bama.
Get in touch with shopguy, he's a world of knowledge on that engine, if you get a shop manual, make sure you get one thats a vintage of the machine instead of a new one from cummins like I did, they tried to put several different timing methods into the same paragraph, once you understand what they are talking about, it makes life a lot simplier, but if you buy a manual from the vintage of the machine, none of the newer engine timing methods are in there to confuse you as to what procedure you are supposed to use in timing the engine, thats the single best advice I can give you, shop ebay for an older service manual, ask shop guy if he has any extras as well you might be able to buy from him. Good luck and let us know how it all turns out for you.
i just read your thread on the fuel system sludge what a mess huh?
Ok I have a question, I have a NH 220, I believe a 1963 it's in a boat. My question is, the accessory drive pulley has no marks on it because of rusting, so how can I figure out how to time it for a valve adjustment ?
IIRC... Keyway in accessory pulley straight up should be TDC on 1 or 6 after that it gets a bit fuzzy for me. I would get a new pulley and go from there.
But I thought the key way is at 9 o'clock not straight up ?
When the exhaust is just closing and intake just opening on #6- #1 should be at top dead. Now use some emery paper and gently clean the pulley. There should be tree notches 120* apart. And it will still be off the notch by 36* at TDC so you will have to bar the engine back and forth to find the notch. Use a magnifying glass. Truck Shop
I cleaned and wire brushed it I don't even see any marks. So the key way should be at 9 o'clock ?
Straight Six Firing Order 1-5-3-6-2-4 Use opposite cylinder by firing order to find which cylinder is @ TDC and firing...example #5 intake valve closing, #5 exhaust valve just start opening. #1 cylinder is firing!
StanRus, I think you said that last part backwards. The exhaust valve is closing and the intake is starting to open. What I always referred to as "Valve over lap". Oh, that firing order only works on "normal engines", not like some Detroit in-lines! Those can be either 1-5-3-6-2-4 or 1-5-3-4-2-6 or 1-6-2-4-3-5 or 1-4-2-6-3-5 depending on the model or rotation of the engine!
Try the key at 9 o'clock and see if #1 or #6 has both rockers loose. You mat be right about that. It's been a few years since I was in the front end of a Cummins.
Just an off the head question, has anyone been in this engine for any reason before? Say like changing the seal on the front cover that shaft goes through? There have been times where someone who did not understand the details of the old Cummins engine have pulled that shaft out to replace a seal and just poked it back in place without thinking about the timing marks. The only reason there are timing marks on the gear on that shaft is to have things lined up for when you do a tune-up. Engine will run just fine, until you try to do a valve and injector setting. The earliest versions of the NH/NT engines that had air compressors had the shaft that the pulley with the marks on it was one piece with the crankshaft of the compressor. Along comes a guy told to replace the compressor might slip one out and the other right in without knowing about the timing marks, pity the guy who gets the job of installing new injectors! Back then it was common to replace the air compressor without removing the crank shaft. On the Cummins brand compressor you could actually slip the connecting rod off the crank without a problem and slip the reman compressor right on the original crank.
With the key at 9 o'clock 3 or 4 will be on the mark which ever one that the valves are closed on.mark your pulley like the picture and your good to go. good luck Bob
This is really strange... The old posts from 2012 just popped up on my end. They did not show earlier???
kshanson, yep I did write opposite cylinder valve overlap example description *** backwards. RZucker, Accessory Drive shaft keyway facing up-top is for installing accessory drive and you check timing marks by removing the plug and looking through the hole in the front engine cover. If the Accessory Drive shaft was incorrectly installed then the accessory drive pulley's timing marks WILL not be correct for valve-injector adjustments.
Yes... Dowel up changing out an accessory drive is what I was thinking about.