Thought this video I just received in a subscription email was worth sharing, tier 4 D11T http://youtu.be/Epi77sDF5ac
That is a nice looking tractor alright. As much as I would love to have one, I bet the old D-9L's pushing scrapers there have made the company more money than the new 11 ever will. I doubt it will last as long as the old ones with all the electronics and such.
Looks like he's wasting a lot of fuel dozing with the ripper bar. Maybe he can't see it?
I saw that ripper frame in the dirt also. If he can sink that thing that deep he shouldn't be ripping at all. The scrapers could load it with a push.
Yair . . . carlsharp and John C. I reckon you blokes are a little picky. Dunno how much ripping you have done but that bloke knows his bickies...he knows what the second set of rams are for and he's keeping the cut dressed up neat...even did a roll run to press in and break some guleys...any issues about the main beam dragging are inconsiquential, he's after (and getting) penetration I have spent far too many nights welding torn out floors to ever say that most dirt won't load better with a rip. Done properly ripping time is seldom wasted whether pushing with the blade or loading scrapers...a fact of life that is often lost on many dirt bosses. Just watch that video again and even though it is good going you will see that eleven pause a couple of times and the tracks slip...imagine the pressure on a scraper bowl (if that dirt was unripped) with a tyro taking a too deep cut with one of those nines and that big sucker up his arse...just sayin', that's all . Cheers.
As Scrub says, nothing wrong with how he is ripping. The ripper bar is just knocking off the high spots anyway. The deeper he gets now, the more they can load before the next time he rips that same area. And showing the talent to break up the bigger rocks so they don't become tire killers is something it takes a well sesasoned hand to do. He is using proper tip angle after rolling back to get penetration, and keeping track slip down, not that the conditions are that bad, but good technique makes it look easier than it really is. A nice sized machine helps too. Yes, you could load it without ripping, but you can load it twice as fast after it is well ripped, and without damage.
I'll go as far as to say if it's stalling a D11 with a ripper then I shudder to imagine the stresses on the draft arms & cutting edges when a D10 rams a 651 up the ar$e if that material wasn't ripped first. He can't get the ripper frame any deeper which is good and every time he hits a hard patch he's prying it out with the ripper tip cylinders instead of lettin' er rip and spinning the tracks. He could come and work for me any time.
I agree with Scrub, JD and Nige, Nothing wrong with the way he is ripping and it is better for the scraper. I run an 8T. Go ahead and laugh. It looks like a tonka toy next to that 11. But ripping techniques are the same. I don't agree with draging the ripper bar in the rocks however. That 11 may be designed a bit different but on my 8 it is open in front of that bar and rocks can be push up onto the frame and the next time you lift the ripper bang,, there goes a hydraulic line or the valve body. Of course you can't always keep em out of the dirt. I ran a single shank ripper once and there were brush guard on the back windows and you couldn't see a darn thing. With mine you can look down and see the center opening and outside shanks all of the time. And then again he is only pulling two shanks and I usually have all three down. That center shank will no doubt pull more rocks up in the center. Some of the scraper operators I have been around think the have to load that bowl up till its running out on all four sides. Have to push then an extra 100 yards just cause the won't pull up and go unload. That's a good reason for me not to be a push cat operator hahaha.. It makes me mad as heck. Good scraper operators are just as important as good dozer operators. How does that song go?? you gotta know when to hold them and you gotta know when to fold them? We'll just have to change the wording a little bit. Every one have a great day!!!
Yair ...a bit off topic but it looks like there could be a few yards in that cut...an ideal application in that material for slope boards or "batter blades" as we call them here. The main thing is not to undercut the toe. A good bloke on a slope board would shave those batters back real nice. Cheers.
Maybe just a tad to deep but at the end of the day if the ripper bed or table is parallel to the ground which is where he pretty much has it then that is the correct way. This way you get throat clearance for material to not plug the bottom and the stresses are channelled through to the main frame evenly. In the good going he is in and rolling the ripper box around to the right position like he does it is inevitable you will do a bit of bulldozing when you have an MS ripper. Just remember over ripping is just as bad as under ripping.
I was waiting for someone to complain about him backblading... guess the ripper was too distracting.:lmao
Yair...that was a perfect example of where backblading has its place. He is keeping the surface of the cut tidy, consolidated and relitivly smooth. Despite a lot of comment to the contrary running a scraper spread is not all about full on balls out production...you have to set the job up to minimise down time due to mechanical failure and in particular tyre failure. To my eyes those objectives are being achieved by the operating methods and the choice of a multi-shank ripper on the machine. Cheers.
In the mining that I've been part of, if you could bury the ripper to the frame, you get longer shanks. Those frames are soft and pliable to absorb the shock loading that is always part of the process. I've had rock jammed in the shank pockets so hard we had to jack hammer them loose. I've had broken joints and seen the bottom plates of the ripper frames worn clear through. I want the wear on the teeth and shank protector, not on the ripper frame.
The key to that statement is that the video isn't of mining John. Ripping for scrapers is a different beast than ripping so you can push it with a dozer. Like it has been said above, that wasn't his first pass over the area. He was working the material a bit more to make sure it was good to go.
Nice looking dozer, good to see they havent added all the junk on it to restrict visibility like they do in the mines over here. Cheers RDG.
IMO, not being experienced in ripping, those conditions in the You Tube, or on machine ANYWHERE the size of the 11T, I would probably lower the 'dozer until the tips of the corner bits were just clearing the ground to more nearly balance the machine when ripping-that's an extreme draft load and the front of the machine and the front of the tracks do appear to be up. Any comments from those with the experience?
Nope nope nope. He's ripping with his shank in and in very hard ground this will raise the front of your Dozer somewhat. If you lower the Dozer just touching the ground then the second he clears the hard ground and the front drops back down the Dozer blade will dip out some dirt and then you will drive through the ripple which can be rough at times.
What exactly causes that metallic squealing sound when pulling the ripper? I have never heard a sound quite like that coming from a dozer. I assume it is coming from the tracks, but what are the details of its cause?
The sound of a track dozer working hard ...... the interaction between the sprocket teeth and the bushes on the track chains.
Is the sound coming from between the sprocket teeth and the bushings, or from between the bushings and the pins?
It will have lubricated track pins so if the noise is from the pins and bushings he's got a major problem. To me it's the sprocket teeth sliding over the bushings as the track passes over the sprocket.
A quick question? My time around bulldozers is minimal i am far from an expert on anything to do with them but why would he only rip one direction and then back up most of the time with his blade in the air is this not losing some production out of the machine could he not rip in both directions?? I ran grader for a short period out of high school and it was always pounded in to my head that your blade is always down if the grader is moving it should be working if you wanna go for a drive use your own vehicle and burn your own fuel LOL... Im just asking is all if their is a reason for him only ripping one direction??
When ripping in a scraper cut, it is always best to rip in the same direction that the scrapers will load. If the rock formation lies in such a manner that cross-ripping is required, the final ripping pass should always be in the direction of scraper loading. This procedure yields several advantages. It greatly aids scraper loading, reduces the chances of damaging or springing the scraper bowl, allows the ripping tractor to double as a pusher in certain situations, and it permits all traffic to flow in the same direction. It’s also advantageous to rip downhill whenever possible. Gravity helps the tractor take maximum advantage of its weight and horsepower. However, uphill ripping is occasionally used to get more rear-end down pressure or to get under and lift slabby material.
Makes sense thanks for the good explanation i learned something new today!
Regarding that track sound, I am guessing that the sound comes from a tiny bit of sliding between the bushings and the sprocket teeth as the bushing enters the space between the sprocket teeth, and then nests down into the pocket between the teeth. So each tooth would begin picking up the load before the bushing is completely bottomed out in the pocket.
They may also be getting some dry pins and are getting internal wear and hot pins in the tracks to go along with other said above.The dryier the material the more noise.
That's a brand new tractor in the Youtube video, the paint's not even dirty yet. I for one would be extremely worried if it was getting hot pins at what I imagine are very low hours.
100% not hot pins, just std dozer sounds coming out of her.
Gavin is correct, It is not hot pins. My 8T squeeks like that when ripping and pushing in dry material. The pins rotate with the sprockets and idlers as they rotate around.
Like the other guys have said, that sound is just normal noise from a working machine, and not dry pins. Dry pins have an all together different sound.
Maybe I need to watch again, but I thought we were talking about the sound the ripper tooth was making as it scraps across the top of some deeper (or harder) rocks. On a different note, what is the proper blade position when ripping? Half way, all the way up?
I think now days the engines are so quite one can hear other noises.Some D11's at work have the rubber idlers which help to stop the clonk clonk track noise.We work close to a town.Cheers
Yair...JimBruce. It used to be that in hot climates you kept the blade as low as possible to stop air recirculation and so help to keep the tractor cool...not an issue in cool climates of course and I suppose the current machines probably have better cooling. Cheers.
So how is the life of the rubber coated Idlers?
The newer ones will scare you to death sometimes. They are hydraulic driven fan motors and adjust the speed as needed. The motor rpm will adjust up and down as well. I can say that mine maintains 198 degrees just about under any circumstance unless the radiator gets plugged with grass or something.
I had to go back and watch that video again. Actually, it is not what I would call a squealing sound. It is more like a low-pitched, very tight metallic stretching sound. If you watch just the first minute, there is a lot of that sound, and it is very prominent. I have heard lots of dozers making what I would call squeaks or longer squeals, but what I hear in the D11 video is much different. To me, it sounds exactly like the tight, stretching sound, that railroad freight cars make when their draft gear is stretched as the locomotive begins pulling on them.
That's not a locomotive but hey, It weight around 230,000 lbs. That's a lot of iron. D8T weighs 87,000 so that's 2.6 times heavier than a D8T. I wonder what the worlds biggest dozer weighs?
Listening again, with as dry as the soil is there, it's possible the pins need to be greased. Dry dusty or sandy soils seem to get into the pins and make them squeal faster than some other wetter soils. 980 I ran in the quarry a few years ago had a couple pins like that, didn't seem to matter how much grease you put in or when, after a while it would squeal in a 10 shift, especially if I spent a lot of time loading or moving the "dust".
Yair...I actualy thought it was the normal sound of track gear chewing up the owners profits. Cheers.