Hi Guys, My church recently got a D4D for some earth moving on our church land/camp project. We recently brought it into town, and started cleaning it up getting it ready for work in the spring. Now that we had it, we, we, we're able to take a really good look at it's condition ( especially the undercarriage ) and it looks like it's shot. We don't have the funds to repair/restore the U/C. So I'm kinda stuck between a few options. Do we try to slap on a temporary redneck fix? Just run it until it falls apart? Abandon it, and just get a different machine? I'm open to all thoughts and opinions. Anything that would keep it running for a few more seasons. Please pitch in your thoughts. *btw, ive never operated a Dozer. My experience is limited to living on a farm and operating farm equipment. I'll attached a few photos of the undercarriage.
Welcome to the HEF. Good to have you. That’s a sweet tractor. Looks like it was used a lot when it was new. Does it have a Halton Co. decal on it?
Welcome to HEF, @RickyBobbyD4D !
What I can see of the undercarriage it doesn't look terrible, I think I see one sprocket tooth and that looks ok. I guess the question is how much are you planning to do with the machine and what is the rest of the tractor like. If it's good overall, it may be worth an aftermarket undercarriage. Especially if you can use it as is long enough to save up the cost of the parts. jmho. ITR makes decent undercarriage parts and are reasonably priced. That being said, I haven't purchased any dozer undercarriage parts since the virus so that could have changed.
Hard to tell from the pictures. Run it enough to clean it up and get some shine on it and take some better pictures. It may have many hours left on it.
Thanks MarcusZ1967, I feel like I've struck a gold mine. Over the past few weeks I've been reading up on all the D4D forums here on HEF. Gathering priceless information. @TomA , you have a good point. We just brought it into town. Planing to do the usual maintenance on it. Oils, Grease Points, Filters, ect. To give you guys a better overall idea, this is a 83J 1971 dozer with Direct Drive and a 4 way blade. Our main agenda was to level/grade a few fields for our church land (maybe make a pond too). That's pretty much it. Here, ill put up a few more photos.
And some more
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Heres some more of the undercarriage
Sprocket and front Idler
More U/C
Looks decent from here I would put it to work maybe consider sprockets but they are weld on so a pain make sure that they never skip and pop Tracks do look pretty extra tight
Thanks for your input, could you please elaborate what you mean by sprocket? Would you suggest replacing it? I've noticed the tracks is as tight as a bow string. Could you please explain to a new operator why that might be a bad thing? And if it needs loosening, how much? Question what would you suggest do if it starts skipping teeth when loosened
The "sprocket" is what drives the tracks. too tight on the tracks will put extra stress on everything "bearings, rollers etc"
If you were to get a rock trapped somewhere in the undercarriage and as a result the track idler was pushed back compressing the recoil mechanism until it became solid the result could easily be a broken track, and much pain............ Get the tractor on a piece of level ground. Accelerate it forward a few yards then flick into neutral and allow it to stop on its own without touching the brakes. Lower the blade to the ground but do NOT push down with it. See the illustration below. Put a piece of string across the top of the tracks from the track carrier roller to the front idler as shown and pull it taut. If the maximum distance between the string and the track shoes (arrowed) does not hit directly on top of one of the grousers put a straight edge between two shoes and measure to the bottom of it, as shown by the second (lower) horizontal line. The vertical distance from the string to the track shoes (or to the bottom of the straight edge) should be in the range of 1.5-2.0 inches.
Seeing as it appears you don't know too about the operation and maintenance of this tractor my advice would be to get hold of some manuals regarding Operation & Maintenance. This requires two separate manuals, one for Operation, the other for Maintenance. Each one costs $30 to download from the Cat Pubs web site. For the Ops manual, put SEBU5270 in the box, for the Maintenance manual put GEG00779 in the box. In each case click the Search button. Once you go to the checkout the documents are available in about 5 minutes.
The Track chains look to be SALT assembly's and to be fare look worn but will still rattle on for a few 1'000 hrs, so put it to work and see how things go, a few driving tips to help you, slowly pull the main clutch towards you when you set off and as it starts to move pull it over center to lock it in drive, always place the clutch engaged and the gear shift out of gear when the engine is running, never leave the clutch open, never put the forward / reverse lever in neutral with the engine running only the main shift as you will loose oil lubrication on the top shaft, try to aim the tractor where you want to push dirt before you load the blade and keep your hands off the steering levers as much as possible under load, cut out the fancy work and just keep everything level helps no end.
These were my first thoughts as well. Probably going to have to run them a little on the tight end of spec so the sprockets don't jump. Hopefully the work you have is mostly flat ground, those rails are not going to appreciate uneven ground or slopes at all.
Overall I think it looks to have life enough in the undercarriage to run it long enough to see if the rest of the machine is good enough to replace it. You should know a lot more about it in a few hundred hours. In the meantime start looking for replacement parts to swap it out when it comes time. Aftermarket will be your friend for those parts. You'll get some good help here when the time comes.
You have some bad hydraulic hoses. Better bite the bullet now and just replace all of them.
I would not agree with that, though for the OP's limited use they would probably be fine.
I think your tracks are ok for what you’re going to do with them. The track that appears bow string tight,might just be the way it’s sat.I notice a worn sprocket on that side,so I wondered if the chain was just starting to ride out and jump when the pic was taken. They look to be Sealed Cat chains.Not sealed and lubricated (SALT). I think that someone donated you a prettty deceant looking D4.
I've had three dozers, I've run them on and I still have one dozer with them,and my cat excavator, I'm going from my experience...it's been all good. My opinion, you and anyone else are welcome to yours.
Nicky has said as much several times. I put ITR on both my 1150G and our 210C. Have over 1000 hours on each and it seems to be just fine. I've only tightened the rails twice on the dozer, and once on the hoe. Who knows. They may not last as long as the OEM, but they were less thsn half the cost.
The undercarriage looks like it could last for awhile, especially if care is taken. Don't run in 3rd gear and try to limit long distance reverse. Too tight of tracks also increases wear and can put undo stress on other components. Undercarriage wears faster in reverse. High speed reverse kills undercarriage. I think 1 1/2" track sag should be fine. Yes to replacing hyd. hoses. It would also be a good idea to have a designated operator(s) with some dozer experience. A careful operator will prolong the life of not only the undercarriage but the whole machine. Would be good to have a complete service done and check and/or change fluids. Make sure to grease the machine regularly as well. Everything I've heard is a D4D is a great machine. Trek/DCF is another less expensive option for undercarriage when the time comes. Should be good for several hundred hours as it is.
I apologize, I should have phrased that differently. Should have said that my experience has not been great. 1000 hours and the tensioners are almost at full extension already. This is on a 6 ton mini. Everyone and every machine is a little different and the results will be different. Bottom line is the OP will be fine running what he has, or with ITR. Doesn't sound like he'll be putting 1000 hours on that machine.
Hey Guys, I appreciate all your thoughta and suggestions. I will be definitely reading into those manuals that Nige posted. I just started a new Thread titled *New D4D operator* Hopeing to hear form those who have more experience than myself. If you guys could take a look and leave your 2 cents for a new operator like myself. That would be greatly appreciated!!!! God Bless Everyone!
No problem here, at 1000 hours on yours and it's gone I understand why you commented the way you did. I'm a one pony show in my business so I'm only using one machine at a time which greatly extends the time my undercarriages last. If I had machinery that worked every day I would possibly have a similar opinion. I recommended the ITR brand because I didn't see the church dozer working like a production machine. I also am involved with the church in my community and money is generally tight and we save where we can. In that situation I find ITR to be a good bang for the buck. But again, that's just this mans opinion.
That all looks like new compared to some of the machines I have run. Operator? It takes years to become one dozers especially. Not like an excavator where you can stop and think about it.
I agree,I also personally think the D4D tractor wasn’t the easiest to master
Is that because it doesn't have the pushing power of a larger dozer?
I don’t know Dave. I was around 11 years old on a D4D and struggled to stop it pitching into the ground.Went from that to a D8H and took to it easily.Few years later,bought a D6C and that was easy to drive too. At some point many years later,I hired a D4D in for a little job and found it still a challange for some reason.
Maybe not balanced the best and too heavy on the front without an attachment on the back? I've heard Terex dozers were front heavy but don't know if that made them a little trickier to run. My track loader is the opposite with the hoe on the back. Not the easiest to make a level cut in hard material.
This may not be a good dozer for a church. If he doesn’t swear or know how, he soon will and may get hit with a lightning bolt. Also, he will want to kill the engineers who designed some aspects of the machine when he starts to repair it
Good point, he'll be tested for sure...lol
Hopefully, ill be able to avoid the swearing part We are expecting repairs to come up in the future (hoses, filter, rollers, etc) @56wrench , would you happen to know of any weak points on a D4D of this age? Babying this dozer is a must, but what about the inevitable things? Got any thoughts?
I appreciate your guy's realistic approach. I'm armed with an open mind and a drive to get the hang of this machine. Given its gonna take years to master, I might as well start now.
Dave, could you elaborate on that? I understand your point about weight distribution. With it being front-heavy (without having hours of seat time yet), what kind of behavior should I expect from the machine? What would be a correct reaction while operating? Currently, we don't have any rear attachments. With two options being a winch or a ripper. Would either of these be a big help with the weight distribution? If yes, where would be a good place to find a riper or winch for a 1971 D4D.
You don't need to add anything on the back. I don't know if a D4D is front heavy or not. If you look at some newer dozer brochures it will show where the balance point is between the front and rear. Depending where it is can affect how the machine operates with some machines being a little more finicky. I wouldn't worry about it though. With time in the seat you will learn how the dozer operates the best. On my track loader it's really finicky but that's because the hoe weighs over 3000lbs. and is hanging pretty far out the back. With the hoe off it's easier to use. I'd see if someone from the church has run dozers. Kind of a grab the bull by the horns deal but good to get some pointers from experienced operators. There are many on the forum.
In my opinion, small machines are just harder to work on compared to larger machines. A lot of stuff is jammed into a small space making some hoses etc. hard to get at without taking other stuff apart first
Our Terex 82-30 (Euclid C6) has a full u blade (large/heavy…). It also has a large ripper on the back (arms consist of formed 3” plate, etc… so quite heavy) It is very nicely balanced, and a real pleasure to operate! Without the ripper I have no doubt it would indeed be ‘nose’ heavy As far as your D4d goes just hop on and have some fun! You will learn as you go and can ask questions here to dial in technique etc. Be safe & enjoy the process. (And hope for no major breakdowns…). Good luck!
being nose heavy is also relative to the material you are working. It is worst with fluffy light stuff but you learn to be always lifting as you push with that stuff.
Things like the starter can be a real pain to get at.