Hello everyone, I have a few questions about a D4E dozer I just purchased yesterday (pictures attached). I plan on using it to clear some land and grade a building site. It is my first piece of CAT equipment as I am used to Deere dozers. It is a 1979 model with a 6 way blade and a 5 tine ripper (3 currently installed). It has 1500 hours on it, albeit hard hours, and a very odd past. It has a 2 speed power shift. I paid 4400 dollars for the unit. The dozer was purchased new by the Saskatchewan government and used as a forestry dozer. During the time they owned it, they blew up the original CAT engine and installed a 100hp Perkins diesel in its place. It was operated and maintained by the Canadian gov up until three years ago, where it was sold at auction and ended up at a yard in Pennsylvania. This is where it had the original track chains/pads robbed off of it and some severely worn ones put on it. It was sold again at auction to the guy I bought it from, after he got it shipped to him and realized how bad the chains are and decided to sell it. The good; -The 6-way blade is tight as new and no cylinders currently leak. -The ripper is in excellent condition. -The undercarriage besides the chains is in good shape. -Controls work and hydraulics are strong. -Engine runs perfectly. -Torque converter seems good. The Bad; -The CAT to Perkins conversion left some quirks in the fuel system. -The steering clutches and brakes do not work well (the guy I bought it from took it to the local CAT dealer and they said the steering clutches are 80%, and the brakes are 50-70%. -When cold, the high speed in forward and reverse does not work. -The track chains are horrible and will need to be replaced right away, the machine barely moves without skipping the sprocket. I have significant experience working on light and heavy equipment over the years and have much of the tools needed on hand to work on it, so that is not an issue. I have several questions about this dozer; 1-What is the proper adjusting procedure for the brakes and clutches so I can determine if I have a hydraulic or a mechanical issue? 2- Based on the engine serial number in the picture, can anyone tell me what model Perkins it is? 3- what would cause high gear not to work when cold? 4- are there any particular things to look out for maintenance wise on these dozers? 5- what is your opinion of the purchase?
Welcome to HEF Eric ! The CAT guys will want a machine serial number. They will be along shortly to help you out.
Too funny. Nice decals.
What in the world in space is that?
Looks like you found a Massey wearing some makeup. http://www.nextechclassifieds.com/listings/707292/
OMGosh !!! After running dozers for over 30 years I have never seen tracks worn out that badly. Blocker; I hope you don't mind that I posted this image from your link.
Eric; I hope you didn't pay a dime over scrap value for you ** dozer. I strongly advise you to cut it up and scrap it. You will need to spend a small fortune to get operable. Even then you have a future full of endless breakdowns.
odd enough. I even showed pictures to a guy more familiar with these machines and he said it looked good. I haven’t completed the transaction yet, so I suppose I could still back out. What is so bad about one of these machines besides a parts availability? What would you say one is worth or are they truly scrap?
How do you know it's a 1985. I passed on one of those around 1975 due to lack of parts availability. As been said, if you can walk away, run.
Haha I feel pretty stupid now! I’ve always worked with Deere equipment so I didn’t catch that this one wasn’t a cat. It’s a shame to scrap it because the whole machine is in such great shape other than the tracks. If someone has any experience with these, were they a good running dozer? If I could pick it up for near scrap I still may as a dozer with a ripper and a tight 6-way is hard to find. Also, does anyone know what track chain the machine uses? Maybe I could pick up a used set of chains for it.
The only thing Caterpillar on this turd is the decals. If you have to go to a Walmart parking lot at midnite and bring cash to make the deal DON'T GO. I can't see this being deal at any price . And that's all I have to say about that. Bob
Well, I guess the consensus on these is that they are junk.. Too bad, maybe I’ll have to tell the guy I’m not coming back for it after all.
The Perkins engine and the grill instantly give it away as a Massey Ferguson. They were very good machines in their day but that is long gone. It's not 100 HP. It looks like it could be a ** D300A model with the 6 way blade. If it's a 4 cylinder engine, it's an A4-248 at 65 flywheel HP. The ** 400 used a 6 cylinder Perkins (85 HP) but I don't think came with a 6 way blade. Tracks for a 300 are non existent and other parts are near impossible to find. No way those tracks have only 1500 hours. Just based on the outrageous BS stories you were told about it, RUN away. There was an earlier thread about wrong decals on a machine and if it was considered false advertising. This one is so bad a blind man could tell it wasn't a Cat. Your guy that looked at clearly doesn't know too much about dozers.
Well thanks for all the info guys, I talked to a couple guys I know about it and said if you can get it for scrap then it may be ok but otherwise agreed with the consensus on here to run away. I talked to the owner, who was surprised to find out what it really is (they got royally screwed on the deal). Needless to say, he isn’t real thrilled about what he’s stuck with but understands why I have to back out. I think I’ll just stick to what I know and look for a JD 450. If I find another machine that’s not a 450 I will definitely post it up here before I buy it! Lots of knowledge on here.
A little update to the whole situation; we believe that the auction company that sold the dozer to the owner that I intended to purchase it from swapped out the serial tag off of an older D4E that they were planning to scrap and put caterpillar decals on this machine. This is what confused both him and I. After sending the serial information to Fabick caterpillar in superior Wisconsin, they came up with the info on the history of it. Something seemed a little funny about all of it, which is why I wanted some opinions before I paid for it. Anyways, thanks for all the good advice!
The best the current owner can do now if he still has the bill of sale and keeps the dozer is to lay criminal charges against the auction house. It's called fraud. ITR still sell track gear for those but the sprocket could be a problem.
Yeah, if he decides to Scrap it, I may buy it for scrap price anyway and part it out/take the ripper off of it. I personally think he should sue the auction company. I’m sure this was all done to them on purpose. He just wanted something to clear some land and had little knowledge of it.
If they did in fact change the serial number tag, then by all means is gross misrepresentation and they should be taken to court. However, I wouldn't think they'd want to be in front of a judge. It's blatant disregard for the law!
Don't be surprised if it is was stolen from someone somewhere.
Stolen... That's a good answer for all the misrepresentation. RUN!
People have inquired about tracks for an ** 300 in the past and nothing was available anywhere. Some reports show an ** 400 may use D4 track but the ** 300 doesn't cross to anything. It's the same track used on ** 450S excavators. Not sure why anyone would want to steal a 40 year old ** dozer. The whole story about it is so stupid. ** did sell a lot of machines to municipalities and county's but they had the money to do maintenance and certainly wouldn't be swapping engines. After stealing the tracks why would anyone go to the trouble of putting another set back on the machine??? This is as bad a Nigerian scam saying if you send $2000 you will get a $1,000,000 inheritance.
I was thinking maybe stolen a long time ago and spending its life in some obscure location. Canadian Forestry Service owned it ! really
I think the story of its past is from a different machine, an actual D4E, the one that’s serial tag was removed and put on this **. The funny part is an actual cat mechanic came out and looked at it and pulled the serial number and gave us this info.
I found it interesting in your first post you said Cat inspected it and gave you a wear percentage on brakes and such but didn’t notice it wasn’t a Cat at all. Makes me wonder what kind of inspection they actually did.
Maybe they were rebadged Cat Techs ! He must have never seen a D4 in his career.
I was surprised he didn’t catch it as well. Neither the seller or I have any CAT equipment experience so I can see how we were confused but not a CAT tech...
Maybe the cat tech. was a vet and not a mechanic?
Haha! Well I know to post pics and specs of a machine I’m unsure of on this page before I buy it now!
https://images.app.goo.gl/VfRuFxZDrWgwjbzN6 Just so you know what a D4e looks like.
The ** 300 were not a bad machine. They were made in the 70s,as both Dozer & Loader.My uncle bought a new Loader in '73.He worked it for years. Worst issue is there is no parts back up & hasn't been since the late 80s.Having said that,John at steeringclutch.com will supply new steer plates. I think the track gear is available from Berco & others.I have a feeling a Case 1000 Idler will fit a MF300(??).The Berco Chain for MF300 is LA 205A.Idler is LA 433.(Going by my worn/faded info).LA=LANDINI. Your chain might be embossed at the top of each link(near plate).Take a wire brush,spray can & magnifier glass.Maybe an identifying number will show itself. I think there were quite a few of the smaller MF200s that made it to Canada & the USA.They were popular In Australia,Europe & Canada.A lot of guys made a start with a tip truck & a 200 Loader.They had a good dump height,for loading.Always had ripper & 4in1 .Perkins 3-152 ran on fumes.The track chain was Fiat. A company called St Joseph Equipment (in the USA )may have had experience with the Massey Industrial line. I laughed about the Cat Tech .I picked this wasn't a Cat,when the 2 speed trans was mentioned . The identity swap disgrace aside,I'd possibly look at this machine,were it local. Do a search on Machinery Trader or Rock & Dirt websites...see if anyone is wrecking a MF300. I know a Company in Australia that sells used parts.