Hey guys I still lurk around here. I found that my C frame inside attaching pivot hole is about a 1/2" wallowed out. After researching here for awhile I found out was an expander pin is. I'm looking for repair ideas. And a part number for the pin. I'll clean it up and get some new pics tomorrow. Thanks for looking.
I made time for cleaned up picks. Didnt want to leave anyone hangin.
if you're looking for part numbers a machine Serial number would be a good start. Also a photo from a distance to give a bit of perspective of actually where on the machine you are looking. Or use the illustration below.
Looks like a hardened bushing could maybe be put in the enlarged hole.
have it welded up and alanine bored
Either way it will still need a new pin.
Im sorry, I was in a rush to get the pics up and make an appointment. The SN is 8PB5544 The pin would be 19.
I looked up alanine bored. Lol You mean lined bored? Can you do that from under the tractor?
The tractor frame could probably be line bored if you got the tracks up on top of some old railroad ties or similar to get a bit of height under the machine. Also not sure if it can be accessed adequately from the inside. If not then some major disassembly might be required to get access in order to bore from the outside. I think youre tractor should have the 3" bore pin mounts, early machines had 2.5" pin bores. You'd really need to speak to someone in your area who offers line-boring services.
That hole looks to be really round for being that big. I wonder if someone put a sleeve in there at one time and now it fell out. I can’t see anything on the parts breakdown for it. Perhaps a new pin, inner bushing, and a machined sleeve to fit the gap with a bevel for welding it in would suffice for a fix. Sure would be a lot less work than welding up that bore and machining it back out to OEM size.
I think that hole is ok. Its the C frame inner hole that look blown out. Acecadet might be on to something.
You might be right. I'll get a caliper and check for its roundness.
Has someone has installed an old-style 2-1/2" diameter pin in the new-style 3"-diameter hole by any chance.?
Well it was morning a my brain was not functioning
They got all the good and then some out of that joint.
If you put a bushing in the hole, I think a harder bushing would be better because just welding would mushroom and wear pretty fast. With a hard bushing it would be best to have a press fit or shrink fit with no welding on it.
My opinion… To get a decent fix it’s necessary to rebuild both the main frame holes and the C frame. If I remember correct that pin is solidary to the C frame . The joint that moves shall be repaired round and a hard bushing installed, and a surfaced hardened new pin. To me it looks the bushing in the main frame is still ok, means that it might be possible to avoid line welding and boring. It’s important to avoid damage of this bushing bed. As it’s expensive to repair…(track frames are in the way) The C frame can easily line welded and repaired… 3/4 h job. Good Luck
It does look like the main frame is ok, and where the pin locks in on the outside of the C frame looks ok also. It looks like the inside tip of the pin is worn down. And maybe like AceCadet said, maybe someone put a sleeve on it and it fell out. I'll know more when I get the pin out.
I got the pin out. Here are some pics. The part number 8E0213x... this kind of pin has been replaced. Number on the pin is 8E9213x. I dont know what the x means but its not actually part of the Part # i guess.... 6Y-4913: LINKAGE PIN comes up as the replacement, but it looks pretty different and has other stuff associated with it. Here is the link to a CAT parts page. https://parts.cat.com/en/macallister/8E-9213
Pics of the hole. Its a 3 " hole. Thoughts? Questions? We are looking at under the tractor, inside hole of the Left side of the C Frame #19 of Nige's 1st post. On A D4H. Thanks for your guys help.
Extract from a Service document from the early 1990s......... "A new plated hinge pin is now used in the "C" frame group. The old hinge pin was difficult to grease, due to dirt and debris that plugged the grease fitting. The new plated hinge pin does not require greasing." The new 8E9213 Pin is a direct replacement for the former 6Y4913 Pin on D4H Tractors"
It's hard to interpret your photos because I get the impression that the C-frame is still installed in between the mounts on the tractor frame. Have you got any measuring equipment at all that you can start getting some numbers regarding bore diameters.?
From the pics it looks like the bushing bed is distorted... if that is the case u´re really unlucky, anyway a new pin and bushing in a fixed C frame will last long time if not abused. in case the bushing fits too loose , let us know and we find u a fild repair to avoid line welding and boring of the bed´s.
Has anyone ever had luck with non greaseable coated pins? Ive never seen them last more then a couple of thousand hours before they start to squeak and rapidly wear soon after.
The new pin 8E-9213 part number is chrome plated for just that reason. See post #21 above.
Hmmm this link https://parts.cat.com/en/macallister/8E-9213 says " REPLACEMENT PARTS This item has been replaced by the following item(s): Part Name Required Quantity Availability Price (USD) 105-3016: Sleeve Bearing (Bushing) 1 From Feb 27 to 28 $142.79 ea. 3B-8489: 1/8-27 PTF Hex Head Special Grease Fitting Adapter 1 In Stock $2.23 ea. 6Y-4913: LINKAGE PIN 76 MM x 150 MM (2.99 IN x 5.91 IN) 1 By Feb 28 $152.25 ea. 9X-7392: SEAL LIP 2 From Feb 27 to 28 $41.18 ea.
Yep the inside hole is distorted. The pin didn't stick all the way thru so it kind of wallowed out one side of the hole like a mortar and pestle. Its still mounted on the tractor- The tractor frame and outside hole on the C Frame aren't that bad. I think if I can die grind out the damaged hole to true it up that I can use an expander pin to take up the slop.
IMO an expander pin might last 5 minutes in that location, even if you could get one that big........ YMMV. As determined by measurement or Mk 1 eyeball.? Your best bet is to bit the bullet and have it line bored.
Looking at the drawing of the frame Nige has posted with the arrow pointing at hole its difficult to know whether that is a blind hole or a straight clear shot across to the hole on the other side. If its a straight shot across for the boring bar to be set up on both holes build up and line boring is a good option. If the holes are blind line boring will be more challenging but still manageable .Im not real familiar with this machine but theres some work to remove track frames for line boring .
Do you have a link for this pin for sale? Cause what I found said it was not used any more I definitely used the Mark 1 eyeball and the 1/2" finger feeler gauge. This is my ranch tractor so its not going out on jobs. Maybe 3 rough pads in harsh rocky terrain then just road maintenance. I dont think line boring is an option unless I remove the C-frame. And that will only do the 2 holes on the c-frame and not the hole were the c-frame mounts to the tractor. The tracks are not in the way its the huge cylinder housing the track adjuster thing. I dont know the term. I guess a trip to the CAT dealer is in order.
Better Pics. I have learned a lot since I first started the thread. I appreciate everyone's help. I know I am probably overthinking this but I dont have a lot of experience doing this kind of work. I was a helicopter (UH-1H) crewchief for 14 years. I try to get as much input as I can so I dont mess anything up. But Dozing isn't the same as flying. Im frustrated because I don't know if I should grind off the white marked original metal and try an expander pin, or should I just fill the gap with my welder and grind it to the original size and slip a new pin in? I would think I need to slip something in between the holes so I dont accidently weld them together... if I go that route. Or other ideas?
Thinking out of the box here.... but maybe I could just put some beads of weld on the old pin to take up some of the slop? Try and true up the pin a bit with a grinder or something, And reinstall it? I figure my crappy welds would be softer than the OEM metal and not do more damage to the C-Frame?
and then get rid of it.
I believe you have gotten some good advice from very knowledgeable people, It would be wise to listen to them in my stupid opinion.
How tight is the pin in the tractor? I'm guessing less than 100 hours/year on this tractor? If it were mine for an occasional usage tractor I'd have a local machine shop make me some bushings out of "pre-hard" material. I'd tack weld the bushings in place, insert a new pin, and use as desired. If you put the factory hardened bushings into a hole where the bushing isn't properly supported, the bushing will break and fall out. A softer bushing out of "pre-hard" will flex a little and conform to the wallered out hole without breaking. This should be a several hundred hour repair. Yes, its a hack repair. When the repair wears enough to be unacceptable, evaluate how many years its lasted, the overall condition of the machine, and how much more work you want to do with the machine.
The C-frame will need to be removed whether you line bore or not, not least to replace the 8E-9176 bush that fits in the pin bore in said C-frame.
nanan that will get u head haches... I´ll tell u of a possible and quite cheap field repair that will last a couple thousand hrs... First u get the C frame to a shop for repair , line welding and line boring , this shall not take more that 2/3 hours labour ... so inexpensive i think, Second u buy new pins from aftermarket suplier like "berco" or other alike. Third u take an inner micrometer and check the frame eye ovalization, if its less than ,2mm out of round u leave it. If not u have to manually grind the hole close to this number. Then u take measure of the hole ID in X patern and find the average ID. Once u get this nr u have a machine shop to machine a bushing made out of Cromolibdenumnickel stell , known as 4337 , at least in my planet. (this material is common in any machine shop due to machine and hardening properties) This material has very good hadning properties, it can harden to close to 57 just by hammering on it. The inner ID of this bushing shall have a clearence of .2mm from the pin OD. And bushing OD the average hole ID plus a interference fit margin, 0,05mm. This material is hardness 40 when anealed, so u can hammer it in place, to get a good interference fit, lube it , heat up the frame eyes, hamerit cold , up to u when u finish the hammering in it will harden to 50 something at least , but is still possible to gind it manually. Then u just need to manually round it to fit the pin. once the machine start to be used and the pin start to beat up, the bushing will harden much more, so much that it will last a long time, it will get no less hard than a factory hardened bush. Of course u can also harden the bushing before installation, but that for pro´s... thare are many more ways to get the same result, i have been successefull this way...