I bought this old D5B about 3 months back and I've been working on it (on and off) ever since. Good news is I'm retired and have time for that. Bad news is I'm not an experienced dozer mechanic. I bought it to help clean up some property I own. I have fixed several leaks now and changed most fluids and filters. Haven't touched final drives...yet. Pics are attached that illustrate leakage from right rear of tractor. I haven't removed the dust cover for a closer look yet, but I can see the leak is outboard of the sprocket and somewhere around that big nut. I'm thinking to try adjusting the final drive bearings to see if that helps as the next step. The manual says this is a maintenance procedure that should be done every 2000 hrs. Based on the degree of neglect I see overall on this machine, I wouldn't be surprised if it was never done. I can also see a little oil residue/dirt mix on that nut on the opposite side, but no sign of serious leakage there. If the leaking side benefits from bearing adjustment, I should probably do the other side as well. Curious to hear if my approach makes sense to you guys, or is this an automatic tear down that I need to accept? If I attempt the bearing adjustment, I have a few more questions I will add in another post (same thread).
If I proceed to do a final drive bearing adjustment, I'm thinking I'll need to break the track. My manual says it's possible to do without breaking the track, but it requires special tools that I don't have. I'm attaching a pic of a spanner wrench that appears to be what is needed. Am I on the right track? I'll have to buy one unless there is a different way, but this one's not expensive. Also including a pic of the master link so you can see what I have. Manual suggests the track be separated at the rear sprocket and reassembled at the front. Is this what works best for those who have done it? Manual also says to tighten the big nut to 2400 ft-lbs and then back off to 350. My skinny self on a 10 ft cheater pipe is only 1500 fl-lbs. How is this best accomplished? Is it really necessary to apply that much torque? I wonder if the spanner wrench can stand it. I assume I will also need to get all the load off the sprocket beforehand which means jacking up the rear of the dozer (a little) on that side after the track is off the sprocket. Lastly, there appears to only be about 7/8" for the track adjustment piston to move for loosening the track. I suppose it must have been enough when the track was last installed, but that track looks pretty tight at this point. Any concerns?
I also found a heavier duty version of the spanner tool from OTC. Perhaps this one is up to the task.
This might help
You shouldn't have to break the tracks to adjust bearings. The heavy duty spanner (7309) is what is called for by Cat.
Larry, I think I'll order the wrench and take another look with wrench in hand before I opt to break the track. I just don't see much room to maneuver that wrench and get the adjustment made with that track in the way. Have you done it successfully that way? That experience is what I lack on this exercise. I expect to change that by about week after next. Thank you for responding!
RC, I was hoping you'd weigh in with your thoughts. I did actually find that video and it squares well with the instructions in the manual. I think for the price of the spanner wrench I'll buy one rather than make my own. I don't have a big pile of scrap metal and buying the material will cost me about a third of the new wrench, I figure. What do you think about my prospects of fixing my leak by adjusting the bearings only? I guess I have to at least try and see if it will work. I have no odd sounds or feel from the final drive, just a leak. As for the manual's suggestion to torque to 2400 ft-lbs and then loosen and retighten to 350 ft-lbs, I'm not sure I'll get it quite so tight as 2400. 350 is no problem. Thank you!
You will need to remove some track plates to gain access to the nut. Its not a big job. You just need a6-8 foot pipe for the wrench. Make sure you turn the nut in the right direction. I have done it before but its been a while so memory is a little fuzzy.
Have you put a crowbar on the sprocket to detect sideways movement. You will also need a big socket to check the tightness of the nut on the end of the dead axle. You have to loosen off the slotted nut first, then check the tightness off the dead axle nut, then retighten the slotted nut. Do I think it will stop the leak. Probably not, but it may do enough to get done what you want to do with the machine. Any metal in the final drive oil? I heard a story about a D8H that was leaking so much oil someone (who I suspect had no idea) told the operator to put some really heavy oil, nearly grease like stuff in it, not sure if they ever did, but I heard someone tightened the bearing adjustment nut up and the leak slowed down considerably. Also keep in mind if oil can get out, then dirt can get in. I recall Nige mentioning in here with oil sampling high silica levels means dirt, or sand really.
Larry, I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to remove track pads to gain access. I’m away from the house just now, but I will look at it when I get home with that in mind. If I can get on that nut with the wrench against the outside of the track rail it should work. Thank you for that suggestion. RC, I haven’t checked the oil yet for metal. I have oil to change it out and figured I’d wait until I had this leak addressed (if I can) to change the oil in both final drives. That is the only fluid I haven’t changed at this point. I’ll pull that outside plate and measure the dead axle nut to see what I need there. I’ll either order a socket or maybe I’ll have a friend who owns one I can borrow. It will be next week before I get the spanner wrench anyway. When I’m ready I’ll loosen the track, jack up the rear, and check for sprocket movement. I really appreciate your feedback. Together with feedback from others, this forum has been very helpful to me in the short time I’ve been involved with it.
RC, I think there is a message in your questions. I tried to get some side movement on the sprocket with a pry bar and it didn't budge. The track is tight and the weight of the dozer is on the tracks as well. If I release the tension on on that track, get weight off the sprocket, and still can't get any side movement on the sprocket with a pry bar, is that a good indication that I'm wasting my time trying to adjust the bearings? On a positive note, I checked the oil level in the final drive (why does that plug need to be so dang tight!) and it's almost full. No way of knowing when the previous owner may have filled it, unfortunately.
As others have suggested personally I would take a look at the oil first. If it is full of sparklies then you know you are in for major disassembly and that attempting a bearing adjustment would probably cause more problems than it solves.
Nige, I already have new oil that I bought with the assumption that I would change it (as with all the other fluids), so I’ll drain it and take a look. If I catch a quart or so of the first oil out the drain is that satisfactory for examination? Manual says it holds 3 gallons.
I would drain everything into one container, then you can go rooting round into what you’ve drained out. Don’t forget to keep whatever cones off the magnetic plug(s).
There is no bearing adjustment nut on a D8H, it is a shimmed pre-load on the outer cap.
To adjust the preload on the D5 you can split the track or whip off a few track plates, its better to split the chain as you can jack up the tractor and spin the sprocket for the best results, remove the lock off the big toothed adjuster and fit in your new OTC C spanner, you will want to pop off the outer cover end cap and make sure the lock is in place on the dead shaft nut, the lock fits on pins on the dish that loves loads of grease, anyhow when you are standing at the back of the Tractor looking forward as in the seat the right hand adjuster is pulled towards the back to tighten, so with the spanner on the top of the adjuster you pull it down towards the back, the left hand side is pulled from the bottom towards the front of the Tractor so you are tightening the collars, its handy if you can spin the sprocket after you have adjusted the collars just to check that they are firm, the OTC spanner can take some hammer but be careful as things slip, I have an OTC hook with a bit ground off the back to fit in the collar more positive. best of luck.
Ok I remember seeing photos of one apart now. A big roller bearing on the inside and a tapered rollers on the outside.
I drained the oil from the leaking final drive today. I didn't have a low profile container that would fit below the drain point and still hold all the contents, so I pumped a couple gallons from the fill opening into a 5 gal bucket and drained the remainder into a plastic pan. You'll see pics for both containers below. I didn't find anything in the oil except the fine particles mentioned below. I also looked closely at the drain plug and what was sticking to the magnet. It was a mushy blob of stuff that looked similar to what was attached to the strainer magnets for the drivetrain when I cleaned it a few weeks back. It's very fine metal particles mixed in oil. I stuck my finger into it before I took the pic and there's about half an inch of it on the plug. I also took a putty knife and spread it on a white panel. That did not reveal any large pieces. Only fine particles. I poured some oil in a glass jar to see if there was any sparkles when the sun hit it. Didn't see much of anything that way. However, after I poured the contents of the pan into the bucket (consolidating the oil), I noticed there were some fine particles in the bottom of the pan that did reflect sunlight. To me it seems similar to the particles stuck to the magnet on the drain plug. You may also notice some larger "bumps" on the bottom of the pan. I believe this to be some dirt that fell into the pan as I was removing the plug. I tried to avoid that but was not 100% successful. I'm attaching a short video as this captures the sparkles a little better than a still shot. Hopefully it will upload and you are able to open it (large file). I refilled the final drive with new oil and plan to drain and change the other side tomorrow, weather permitting. Feedback on this step? Any conclusions based on oil examination?
More attachments... Well, I wasn't able to upload the video clip. Not sure why unless it's a size issue. Also not sure whether the forum allows videos to be uploaded as this was my first attempt. Anyway, I did describe what I saw in the post above.
You cannot upload videos directly. You have to host them somewhere else and link to them.
Hard to tell by the photos, but I didn't see anything alarming in the oil, it does appear like the oil hasn't been changed for many hours which also makes what you did see to not be overly alarming...Just normal wear over an extend period would allow fine metallic particles to accumulate. Metal wears over time even when protected with oils. That's my 2cts. which is about what my opinion is worth.
That was my take as well, but this is the first final drive oil I’ve ever examined. Based on many other indicators relating to maintenance on this tractor, I am not surprised to think that oil has run a very long time. When I get the oil changed in the other final drive, I will have changed all fluids and filters on this machine. I’m curious to hear what others think. Thanks for your feedback.
A flush out with diesel wont do it any harm. Oil is cheap. I would get it hot and change it again.
I have put a few pictures up of some final drives I have done in Shop Talk, there would be D5's in it also the C spanner getting a day out, most of the video's well all of the video's I have seen of F/drive work have been absolute shockers, the Redneck ones are a scream as it's all very good blowing off the sprocket but its the build up including the adjustment that sets the job up to last, you could make yourself a C spanner, the correct spanner used to cost in the U.K. around £450 some years ago, I know the Facom C spanners are NO use and any tube put on them just snaps them, the OTC stuff is good and worth the cost, I have tried the flush out thing but think it best to just fill with fresh oil and drain out again after a couple of days work.
All above discussion of oil change on final drive is for the right side. That is the one that has shown some leakage. Yesterday I changed the left final drive oil. The oil in the left side had the same blob of metal particles mixed with oil stuck to the magnet on the drain plug. What was different was I found more of this same material was sitting in the bottom of the drive housing than I noticed on the right side. I also found some metal slivers (very thin pieces maybe 1/8" long) in the bottom of my pan. There were about 10-12 of these that I noticed. None of these were on the magnet and not sure why. In this case I did use some diesel to flush through the housing to wash out some of the gunk. That was helpful, but I'm sure I didn't get all of it. Best I could do was feel with my finger though the drain hole. It was decidedly better after the flush than before. (Writing this, it occurs to me I should have used some of the stuff they make you drink before a colonoscopy. That would surely have removed everything, maybe even the gears.) I do plan to make a short run and then change the oil again in both final drives. Tctractors, I'm still relatively new to this forum and wasn't aware of the Shop Talk portion of the forum. I will definitely take a look there and see what I can learn before I attempt the bearing adjustment. I'm leaning toward breaking the track, but I am also concerned with how difficult it may be to put the track back together. It looks to me like the wrench may fit on that slotted nut with some pads removed, but it will be on at an angle and not straight on. We'll see. My wrench is due today but I'm about to be out of town for a few days, so it will have to wait a while. Oh, the OTC tool I ordered is #7309 and the price through Amazon was $309 US, including shipping to me. I hope it's OK to share that info on the forum.
The magnetic plug only has a certain capacity to hold on to metallic debris. Once that capacity is reached it cannot hold any more and the particles will fall to the bottom of the compartment. A magnet on a flexible stalk might have been somewhat of a help, but changing the oil and then pulling the plug again after a short time should help. Why not get a "spare" plug then you could pull the installed one out and fit a clean plug without having to drain all of the oil.?
Nige, I added drain plugs to the order I was just putting together. Thanks for the suggestion. Although, I think for the next time, coming soon, I will go ahead and drain all the oil to help clear more of that gunk out. After that, I like the idea to check & clean the plugs occasionally without draining all the oil. Hopefully, I'll be fast enough to save most of it, anyway. I did try a magnet but the one I had handy was on a telescoping, but straight shaft. It didn't work at all. I also ordered fill plugs and gaskets. Seems the last owner intended to tighten the fill plugs enough to go without a gasket. From the look of the square recesses in the plugs, it was done that way as a matter of practice. I had a hard time getting those fill plugs out. Looked like someone before me resorted to a hammer and chisel. I ended up using a stout impact wrench to get them loose. Whoever picks up this dozer after me will get something shown a little more TLC.
The stars aligned today and I had assembled everything I though I'd need to do that final drive bearing adjustment. So, I went ahead and executed the procedure as outlined in the manual to adjust the bearings. I went with the separate the track option and I think it went OK. Took me most of the day, though. I broke the track at the rear (took this idea from RC, thank you), then pulled the tractor forward a bit to give myself room to work and jacked up the right rear to get the sprocket clear of track. I was able to remove the dust cover and the lock and the slotted nut loosened easily (no cheater needed). Next I tried to tighten the smaller nut at the end of the shaft (smaller = 2 3/16" socket). I was not able to tighten that nut at all. My cheap harbor freight 1" breaker bar now has a permanent bend. Anyway, then I tightened the big slotted nut with my new spanner wrench and a cheater pipe to approximately the torque value specified. It felt fairly tight at that point and definitely tighter than as found. As per procedure I then turned the nut a further 3" plus a bit to allow the lock to reinstall. At that point I feel it was quite tight and certainly tighter than the 350 ft-# spec'd in the procedure. Next task was to put the track back together and that took a few minutes. I backed the tractor up to the starting position and used a farm tractor to pull the top of the track back to a position where I could almost put the master link back together. At that point I had to detach the chain in order to get it out of my way. Before that, however, I used a couple of 2" ratchet straps to pull the track together on the bottom side so my way was clear to install the track pad and bolts into the master link. It wasn't a terrible job. The ratchet straps that I used have a bent plate at the ends that will just barely fit between the track pads and I put one on either side of the rails. With that, a couple of taps with a hammer got the master link all aligned and the rest was easy. I don't know yet whether this will have any effect on my final drive leak, but I expect to know soon. Not decided yet whether I want to do the other side now. Oh, one more thing...I did this as a one man job, but it would have been nice to have someone to watch for me while I moved dozer and farm tractor. Otherwise, I managed just fine without assistance.
I love to hear it only took a couple of minutes to put the alligator plates back together! Keen to hear how it works out
I didn’t say a couple of minutes! Haha. More like an hour to get it all lined up and the bolts installed.
Did you jack up the Tractor so the sprocket was clear of the track and rotor the sprocket around to check adjustments, on the tension of the adjuster collar it is common for the Service Manual to only say "Take a 5ft length of pipe and place on your C spanner" not to post a Ft lbs target that you cannot register with a C spanner???
Yes, sir. I did jack up the tractor to clear the track and rotate the sprocket. Knowing I couldn't precisely measure the torque, I marked a 9 ft pipe in 1 ft increments. With the pipe on the spanner wrench max lever arm was 10 ft and my weight being 150 lbs, I used the distance and my weight to approximate the torque applied. I was not able to achieve the 2400 ft-lbs specified in the procedure (no heavy friends around), but realistically did get close to 1500. I feel fairly comfortable I got somewhat close to the 350 ft-lbs on the retightening step. From there moving another 3" (corresponds to about 2 notches on the nut) was fairly straightforward. I probably had about 3 1/2" total to get the lock back on the nut. At that point it was pretty tight, I think. Since I was shooting for a certain movement, I was less focused on the torque, but I'd say in excess of 1000 ft-lbs. I'm open to any other questions. Never did this before, so I'm happy to hear feedback.
The rear track frame track guide needs replacing.
RC, thanks and I am aware. I'm just planning to live with that for a while, at least. The left side is no better. Is there a serious regret for letting this wait? I do so want to get my side shields on the tractor and do a little work with it and a little less work on it.