Hi, I have a 2014 D5k2. Serial KWW00881. 5061 hours. I get a flashing red exclamation mark inside a square when I sit at idle for just a couple minutes. It never comes up if I’m running the machine. And sometimes it won’t do it if I have it idled up all the way and sitting, but sometimes does. I have a lot of codes and don’t know how to tell what’s active vs stored. Any help is appreciated! Codes: number in parenthesis is above the code and to the right. 582-03 (036) 2452-03 (036) 2452-04 (036) 2526-03 (036) 3397-21 (036) 3397-09 (036) 490-03 (039) 2679-03 (039) E1014-2 (A036) E361-2 (036) E361-3 (036) E583-1 (036) E569-2 (039) E570-2 (039) 2452-03 (A036)
Anyone at least know how to tell which codes are active?
Previous experience with this particular product line has led to the conclusion that the only way to determine if Diagnostic Codes are Active or Logged (and to clear them) is by using Cat ET. So it looks as though you need to get either a dealer involved or a local independent mechanic if you can find one who has ET. One suggestion: Have you tired measuring the alternator output voltage at Low Idle and High Idle RPM to see if there is a significant difference.? Some difference would be expected, but it would be interesting to see what the actual voltages are.
IIRC CM1995 posted previously that the electronic system on his D5K is very sensitive to voltage.
That’s about right for them to make it where you’ve got to bring it to them. That’s ridiculous. The alternator is putting out 14.19 at low idle and 14.21 at high idle.
Codes: number in parenthesis is above the code and to the right. 582-03 (036) air filter differential switch voltage above normal 2452-03 (036) Particulate trap #1 temp sensor voltage above normal 2452-04 (036) Particulate trap #1 temp sensor voltage below normal 2526-03 (036) air inlet temp sensor voltage below normal 3397-21 (036) DPF #1 soot loading sensor data drifted low 3397-09 (036) DPF #1 soot loading sensor abnormal update rate 490-03 (039) implement lockout switch voltage below normal 2679-03 (039) blade shake switch voltage below normal E1014-2 (A036) low DPF #1 intake temp E361-2 (036) high engine coolant temp E361-3 (036) high engine coolant temp E583-1 (036) high air inlet#1 differential pressure E569-2 (039) unexpected left motor reverse speed detected E570-2 (039) unexpected right motor forward speed detected
Thank you! The soot code was the first one to show on the screen until I had the DPF cleaned and replaced the 2 antenna things. It moved down the list after that. So maybe all I’m having a problem with is the codes before the 3397-21?? I don’t know. That would all be voltage issues.
Couldn't you erase them and see what comes back? Granted, some emissions codes and event cannot be erased by the consumer, but, it would narrow it down.
I’d love to erase them and see what comes back up. Do you know how?
Just because the alternator is working now, doesn't mean it will work when it's warmed up, or the moon is full or whatever. or the connections will be good all the time just because you have a good connection now. A digital volt gauge in the cab would be an easy move.
That’s right. It just seems odd I get the light after about the same amount of time idling, every time. I’ll do a little more testing tomorrow and time it a few different times. And it never comes on if I’m working it. Until I stop moving for that certain amount of time- or stop changing the throttle speed I should say. Or is it? Maybe I should sit still and move the decelerator around a while and see if it will still throw the light. Sorry, thinking out loud.
I do that a lot. I wonder what would happen to the measured voltage if the engine sat at idle for an extended period of time..? Are you measuring the voltage at the alternator terminals or somewhere else.?
Yea, I was thinking about letting it idle and watching the meter until it throws the light and see if it changes at that time. Those readings were at the battery. Should it read correctly at the alternator terminals? I don’t have much experience messing with alternators. It was showing 7.11 and 7.12 at the alternator terminals. I thought, well that can’t be right because the battery is staying charged. So I figured I shouldn’t be reading it there.
I would hook a volt meter to the "ignition" circuit, that would be the easiest closest thing to the voltage that the ECM sees. Don't worry about the alternator yet.
Ok, I haven’t had time to do a lot today but I did check a few things. Measuring at the battery, the voltage never changed from 14.20 up until and after the light came on. The light came on RIGHT at 2 minutes of sitting. Low or high idle. And also I sat still and feathered the decelerator around and it still came on at 2 minutes of sitting still. So it’s something to do with NOT tracking around...?? Seems odd.
It seems that once it’s warmed up I can sit still at high idle for longer than the 2 minutes for sure. I’m just throwing out there, what I can, as I can. Sorry, I just got into this business a few months back and between break downs and rain, I need to run as much as I can right now. If y’all can throw out your ideas as you have time that’d be great. If I’m driving you crazy and you think I should just take it to the dealer you can say that too lol. I plan to take it to them after a little more solid work and the next long rain out. Just thought I’d try to figure it out in the mean time. Thank you to anyone who takes their time to offer up any advice!
I’m sorry Its very hard to troubleshoot over online it’s just too many things to check. I am extremely skilled at troubleshooting electrical items but it’s hard to translate that to advice you can follow you need either a good understanding of this stuff or a guy who does. the one thing I can tell you is that with so many different sensors it’s not the sensors it’s ether wiring or voltage supply. The ECMs need to get their proper voltage from the battery and charging system to be able to supply the right voltage to sensors and get the right results. Checking out the charging voltage is definitely a good idea. another thing you can do while the warning lamp is on is to check voltage across each fuse. You want to see system voltage across each fuse. If you see low voltage something is wrong. You can have fine battery and charging voltage but a faulty relay or wiring causing issues like this. also pull the left side panel at the engine compartment and check where the engine ECM harness that goes to the ECM plug crosses a large metal bracket on the left side of the flywheel housing. On some machines they aren’t routed correctly and rub against the bracket and rub through causing all kinds of issues. This will not be the harness that goes to the injectors and such on the left side of the engine but the harness that goes from the ECM, wraps around the back of the engine over the flywheel housing and around to the other side plus plugs into the big round plug under the cab. It goes up to aftertreatment and air filter sensors too.
Sweet talk your PSSR into coming out for an undercarriage inspection that includes scanning it with ET
And if you succeed in that make sure he gives you a pdf copy of the Product Status Report downloaded from the machine that you can post up here.
Ok, I got some panels and floorboard off and did some cleaning and looking around. Haven’t found any bad wires yet. The fuses that have power are all at 14.17-14.21 with the alarm on. Is that range ok? The bottom left, 6 fuses in the bottom fuse box, under the relays, have no power. But the wires on the back side are just “jumpered” to theirselves. I guess these are just unused spaces. How can I check relays? They’re all the same. Just move them around and see if something different happens? Lol I’m guessing PSSR is some kind of CAT rep? Lol. I may see if I can pull that off!
Speaking of tracks... long story short, I bought this dozer from a Case dealer. When this light first came on I took it to them. They didn’t have the diagnostic hookup. They did some “research” and some smart sounding guy came out and told me that light had to do with the traction control. Which I have turned off. Not sure if he was full of it or if there’s anything to that..?? I forgot all about that.
He doesn’t know what he is talking about. You need to get at least an Operation and Maintenance manual for this machine. Cat has them for reasonable cost. To put it roughly the dash lights exist to communicate faults. A flashing yellow warning light with exclamation mark is check as soon as possible, a flashing red light with exclamation mark is a more severe fault that requires immediate attention. A level three fault which has both the flashing light and a horrifically screeching alarm in your ear means something is seriously wrong and if you don’t shut down it might be very expensive. When a laptop and communications adapter is connected and the diagnostic software is launched it shows you what codes are what and if they are active or logged. A logged code far in the past is probably not relevant but codes currently active and very recently active should be investigated carefully.
Swapping relays a valid test method and easy. I like to test any suspect ones by supplying voltage to coil side and checking for switched side operation and ohms across switched side (I have had high resistance on a relay cause a voltage drop on the circuits it controlled, it took them down to 8 volts when it was supposed to be 24 volts) Good voltages for that. No fuses blown? Yeah every modern cat machine pretty much has unused slots for expansion to add circuits if necessary and to act as spares.
That’s what I figured. And yes, I need to get a manual for sure. I’d like to have a service manual too but they want $800+. Maybe a used on eBay or something. I’ll mess with the relays some tomorrow. No blown fuses. Going to blow out dirt and debris and do some more wire checking tomorrow too. Thank you for your time!!
Price the service manual through Cat too it’s not cheap but might be better than that. I don’t know about other source reliability or pricing.
Sorry, wasn’t very clear there. CAT wants $800 for service manual. I thought I may look for a used one online.
I gotcha good luck finding one. Hope you find the cause of your issues soon
Thanks! I’ll let ya know!
PSSR is a Parts & Service Sales Rep. As HMC suggested if you can get your local dealer to send one out to measure your undercarriage (tell them you’re in the market for replacement) just make sure he brings a laptop & Comms Adapter with him so he can give you a rundown on what ails your machine while measuring your U/C. I’ll give you a link where you can download an Operation & Maintenance Manual from Cat for around $50. Note this is not a Service Manual but it more than covers the basics.
Ok, gotcha. Awesome! Can you post it here or do you want my email or something?
Go to - https://catpublications.com/ When the popup appears click on "Continue as Guest" Type SEBU8498 in the box and click search. The illustration below should appear. Paper or CD versions will have S&H charges on top of the price shown, downloads do not. A download is usually available within 5 minutes of you paying for it via the site.
Cool, thanks a lot! So it says KWW1-UP. I assume that does include mine? KWW00881
KWW1-Up is Cat shorthand for KWW00001-Up, so yes it’s the correct manual for your machine.
Thanks! Hey, off subject but do you know if the pins that connect the cylinders to the blade come out either direction or only one way? Should you take the keeper off and drive it away from the keeper or toward the keeper?
Looking at the codes you provided, the air filter differential code 582-03 (036) suggests your air filter needs cleaning. Given a couple of your codes are either above normal or below normal, that suggests you either have some bad sensors, or they were leftover from troubleshooting where the guy just unplugged sensors while the machine was running.
Sorry I don't agree. The 582-03 Code relates to a problem with the air filter differential pressure switch, not the filter itself. There is a troubleshooting procedure for the switch. Problem: 582-03 - Air Filter Differential Pressure Switch : Voltage Above Normal Troubleshooting, "Switch Circuits - Test (Air Filter Restriction Switch)" However with the raft of Codes that this machine has listed the problem MIGHT well be one of sensor supply voltage, common sensor ground, or something similar, rather than being related to a specific sensor or pressure switch.
I just can’t understand why it does it when I’m sitting still. And at 2 minutes exactly. It did do it this morning when cold, even after moving it a little. But other than that it never comes on when I’m running. And after good and warm I can sit at high idle and it doesn’t come on. I think my next step is going to have to be, get someone to hook the computer up so I can see what codes are active at least. Or clear them and see what comes back.
The 2 minute delay business could be significant. I need to do some digging.
Yes, I’m no technician obviously, but it makes me think it’s something with the exhaust. Like the electric back flow valve or something. Or since it seems to do better after it’s warmed up, something with the hydraulics. Seems with all the sensors, it would show a code for something along those lines but I don’t know.
If you do that, make sure that they download a Product Status Report (PSR) and give you a copy in pdf format. That will serve as a permanent record of which of the Diagnostic Codes were active and which were Logged. BTW you do realize that the system voltage can be accessed from the Operator Controls and displayed on the LCD screen..? Another one of the benefits of having an Operation & Maintenance Manual.
Ok I’ll do that. And no I didn’t realize that, thanks! I’d like to have a paper copy of the manual so I’m going to order one and get by until it gets here. Thanks for all your help!
It might be interesting to see what happens to the system voltage around the time the warning comes on. Just a thought. If you bought a manual on CD or downloaded a pdf copy you could have it printed and therefore have both paper & electronic versions of the document for one price.
I’ll definitely let ya know. Good idea, maybe I’ll do that!
System voltage on the screen shows 13.6 right after start up. It gets up to 14.0 and stays there. Doesn’t change when light comes on. Stays at 14.0 when operating.
Well that put the kybosh on the idea it was dodgy system voltage. I'm sorry I have no more ideas on what it might be.
Probably yes but I wouldn’t rule a voltage issue out yet . Another circuit that supplied voltage to the ECM could have a fault resulting in low voltage in that use. I really wish I could post a case study I wrote up about a machine I had. It had seemingly good system voltage but a secondary power supply circuit to the ECM was faulty due to a failed relay. In my case on four fuses that the relay controlled circuits on had 8v when 24V was supposed to be there. High resistance in the relay dropped the voltage.
The two main power relay coils are pulled in by power from the ECM from CONN J2 Off the top of my head I can't see anywhere where a main power relay feeds to the ECM. One relay supplies power to one of the fuse box bus bars, the other one supplies the other. As far as I can see the machine ECM power supply (4 different pins on CONN J1) all comes from fuse #1 which is direct from Batt+ not via a relay.
Here's a thought. Corrosion/condensation/contamination on the #1 fuse holder..? Pull the fuse out and give both it and the holder a good clean might be an idea. At least then you've eliminated another possibility.
A great check especially if this happens to be an open cab machine (Yes Cat still builds them!!!)
You know, it is an open cab and that top fuse box had water and corrosion all in it. I noticed after I bought it of course. I cleaned it up and replaced bad fuses. But I didn’t spend a lot of time on it. What’s the best way to clean that out good? That was 6 months ago.
there is a company called innovative products of America they make all kinds of corrosion cleaner tools for different terminals download their catalog and look at it. Make sure you disconnect the batteries before doing the work as the fuse panel has hot wires from the battery going to it. Clean those ring terminals well too. I’d consider pricing a replacement fuse panel also. I would certainly investigate replacement if I was hired to be your mechanic. Corrosion is a common fault source. The information of the fuse box being corroded and water filled is an important clue that might explain some of your issues.
So I have been running all day. Decided to stop and check the part number for a new fuse box. I’d like to replace it but how do the wires come out of/go back in the back of it? Also, the F10 fuse burnt my thumb it’s so hot. That normal?? Don’t seem like it
No fuse should be hot no matter how long the machine is working. As the Chinaman would say “Sum Ting Wong”.
Lol kinda figured that. Maybe it’s just the box?? Corrosion has kind of shown back up on that box and on fuses since I cleaned it last. To change out the box, do I have to just cut the wires and they push into the new box or what?
Looks modular, ie, all harness plugs behind.
For what it is worth. Electricians have a nice set of paired numbered labels to use when changing out circuit breaker boxes. I’m sure something similar could be improvised.
A smart phone with a camera is your friend. The attached Service Magazine is interesting. There is an upgraded fuse block...........
A hot fuse you say? AH-HA another important clue!!! a fuse is hot it means high resistance is causing it to heat up. What causes that resistance is what you need to find. Whether that’s corrosion or a poor connection or damaged wiring...This fuse panel bears much more investigating. There are modular blocks that plug into the back of the fuse panel mark photo, many photos, and transfer carefully. They just have release tabs don’t cut the wire work it with a pocket screwdriver and carefully I bet changing this fuse panel and making sure your plugs that plug into it are all clean and in good condition will solve your issue
Oh, cool. Thanks! It won’t pull up the crimp tool on the cat site but I googled and it shows $1700!! That can be crimped with a regular crimper right?
For that rework procedure I’d have to see what crimping is required this isn’t a “commonly available parts store” type crimping tool
Nige posted there’s an updated fuse box. It requires 2 new harnesses that you have to crimp a connector on each. Think it’s #8. I don’t see why you’d need anything special for it but wanted to make sure. Because if I need a $1700 crimper, I’ll just replace with the old style box! Lol
I missed that when skimming it Finding out what kind of contacts are required to crimp would be key.
It looks like the connector is kind of a butt splice on one end that crimps on the power wire, then plugs into the harness connector.
First up, there are two procedures on that document, one for machines with a cab, the other for machines with a canopy. The procedure applicable to the OP's machine starts right at the bottom of page 6. See the drawing below. To install the new Part Number of fuse block the ring terminals (marked C) have to be cut off the two large 8 SWG wires (marked B & E). Those wires are 177-OR & 178-GR that are the main power feeds into the two bus bars of the fuse box. If you recall we talked about those earlier. The procedure lists 2 x 8N-1545 Sockets that have to be crimped on the the wires B & E later in the procedure. IMO any crimper suitable for wires of 8 SWG size will work. Basically what I think the prcoedure is trying to tell you is that you'll need more than just an automotive wire crimper to do the job because of the diameter of those two wires. It will need a good crimper machine though, because the last thing you want is those two joints heating up in operation as a result of bad internal contact.
So it seems replacing the box isn’t going to fix the corrosion though. The terminals aren’t part of the box, but they’re attached to the wires individually, right? So the terminals are what really need replaced. Maybe the box too because it apparently doesn’t seal well. But to address the corrosion, all the metal needs replaced. Fuses and terminals.
The new fuse block also has an improved design of internals. "The new fuse blocks have provisions for multiple power connections to improve the condition of the connection and power distribution." As JD955 pointed out, machines without a cab are prone to having issues with water ingress/corrosion on components such as the fuse block which are exposed to the elements on your machine instead of being hidden away in the corner of a waterproof (we would hope.!) cab. The new fuse block also has a different type of (external) main power terminal connection (the two big wires) between the machine harness and the fuse box bus bars. That's why the two existing wires will not connect directly to the new fuse block and so need the ring terminals cut off and new terminations crimped on to them. It's worth pointing out again that if you have fuses getting hot then you likely bhave corrosion issues (that may well be invisible to you right now) inside the fuse block in addition to any obvious ones that you can see from outside.
Not meaning to leave y'all hanging. I've got the parts to update the fuse block and harness and all. But I don't have a place warm enough to work on it right now. I'm in Texas and this weather is not my cup of tea! Don't know where any of you are from but it's snowed almost 10 inches here and been 0-20 degrees the last few days. We aren't set up for that around here! lol Maybe by Monday it'll warm up enough for me to get something done on that thing. I'll update with any progress. Until then, thanks again everybody!
Crickets since February?! What ever happened with all this? Did the new fuse panel fix your issues?
Wow, I guess I ended up forgetting all about all this as I ashamedly put it off and put it off. (Finding the problem that is.) I replaced the fuse boxes and still have the problem. I guess I should get re-motivated to get it fixed.