Hi. I have just purchased a D6B SN: 44A4907 and have a couple questions about it. First thing is the hydraulic pump doesn't have enough power to lift the blade. the previous owner had the hyd tank removed and taken to Cat where they resealed all the components and replaced the relief valve. He replaced the filter and all new oil but it still wont lift the blade. It tries to lift and with a little help from a small loader it will lift and hold. Can I buy a rebuild kit for the pump or do I need to replace it? I cant seem to find a lot of information on the hyd system online at all. My second issue is the right steering clutch doesn't want to release. How would I go about adjusting it. The previous owner said he tried but couldn't get it adjusted. said there should be around 3 inches of free travel on the steering lever but it has virtually none at all on either lever. For the most part the dozer seems to be in decent shape and for my use I think it will serve me well once I get these few issues delt with.
I have run into a bit of a problem here with my hydraulic pump. Everyone I talk to says the pump is no longer available from cat parts and that I need to buy a conversion kit to change over to a different pump but nobody seems to be able to find anything on the change over kit. Has anyone here had to deal with this issue or is there an after market pump I could get. My pump is pretty much done< has a deep grove wore in the end cap and most of the vanes are wore right down to nothing. Was really hoping to get some work out of the old girl before harvest but not looking good so far.
To get parts information regarding the hydraulic system on this tractor will require the Serial Number of the Hydraulic Control rather than the tractor. It should be a 163 Control (maybe even a 163B) and the plate with the Serial Number will be on the hydraulic tank.
You can replace just the cartridge set
If the end plate is grooved that won't fix his problem.
Never ordered vane parts from Cat. But a standard cartridge set for Vickers or Denison is a rotor, vanes, cam, end plates, and a seal set
Yes a reman cartridge from cat comes with end plates.
Apologies. Brain fade set in........
Hi Nige. I took a look at my hyd tank and found the remainders of the plate. looks like 39F2674 stamped on it. The pump is a Denison and stamped 2J9581 which I have been told is now obsolete. Mobiltech. Does cat still supply parts for these old pumps? My end cover that is wore is actually the complete end cover for the pump and is all one piece of cast. I have called cat and they tell me I need a complete change over kit including pump adapter to go to a Vickers pump, suction and pressure line, filter relocating mounts and a variety of brackets and hardware. One guy told me some of the parts for the change over kit are even obsolete now and I will have to find them at a salvage yard or scrap the dozer. Another guy said everything is still available but there is no price or stock listed anywhere. Im thinking this is going to be more of a issue than just a simple pump replacement.
Yeah your right and as Nige said the pump end plate is part of the casting of the pump. If you try to order it it changes up twice to a 3j2950 pump. You need new lines to retrofit it. Would it be possible tho get the end plate machined flat or replaced with an insert. You could also check with a local hyd pump repair shop. They might be able to locate parts. I see you're from Sask. too. What part of the province are you in?
Here's what I've managed to find. The 2J-9581 pump is replaced by the 7J-7958 Pump & Lines Conversion Group. This is what supports the change from a Dennison to a Vickers pump. The 7J-7958 consists of a pump, adapter plate, 2 steel lines for suction & return, plus various hardware parts. In turn 7J-7958 has been cancelled as a single kit and replaced by the 25 individual part numbers that make it up. Of those parts, the 2 steel lines are available as "indirect replacements" the drive gear, pump, & adapter are all listed as "contact dealer for availability". I get the distinct impression you may struggle via the Cat system to get all these parts. Try these guys - www.offroadeq.com - if you need a complete breakdown of all the Part Numbers that make up the kit let me know.
Provide pictures and all of the casting numbers. The integrated end plate in antique but there are still parts out there after the model is identified
With the help of Nige's string of numbers I was actually able to track down the conversion. Resides in the 153 & 163 Hydraulic Control parts book for 38G1, 39G1, 44G1, s/n's all to last built, Form #UEO70087 (1980)
Doesn't look like you could do much to salvage the original pump.
Depends on how bad it is, if you can get the ring section, bearings and seals, I would think you could machine and lap the end plates. The forward one seems to be floating to take up end play?
Does appear to be provision for some float in the forward end plate which has spring loading but I don't think you have much meat to play with until you run out of shaft seal surface. I don't think bearings and seals would be much of a problem but who knows on the ring and vanes. Must be a reason they dumped this pump for a Vickers replacement.
well from the looks of what Nige and Old Magnet have found I should be able to at least start collecting parts for the conversion now. Although from the looks of things if I can come up with a pump the lines should be easy enough to modify or fabricate myself. I did find that my pump [2j9581] is a 50 gpm pump only used on some later SN machines and that a 3j2950 pump is a standard 30 gpm pump used on all other units. Mobiltech I checked to see if the end plate could be resurfaced but the gouges in a couple places are deep enough that by the time they were removed there wouldn't be much material left between the hi pressure passages at all. Im in the Naicam area of the province, where abouts are you from? always interesting who a guy runs into on these forms and how close you are and don't even know it. Looks like my swap out the pump and go to work idea is getting a little more complicated than first anticipated LOL. But if life was all roses we would never know what the crappy part smells like and end up face first in the pile LOL. Guess ill start searching some numbers now and see what I come up with. My hired man is getting rather impatient with the delays in getting to the big sandbox lol,
According to my parts book both the 2J9581 and 3J2950 are both 54 gpm pumps.
Remember if you go for a Vickers pump you will need the adapter plate to mount it to the housing and also the drive gear. I would guess everything else could be fabricated.
Well I have been putting those part numbers to the test and its been a hit and miss game. Some of them are now obsolete as well and others well you just don't want to know what cat has for a price on them. The 2 steel lines sub up again and are almost $2000 for them according to the local cat dealer. Im thinking I can come up with something rather than going through cat for them. The gear on the other hand isn't so bad, $240 but the adapter plate has no price listed but is still available according to the computer. One guy I was talking with figured a good hyd shop could get me a pumping group and could weld and resurface the end cap so im going to do some more phoning and see what I come up with. I did find a couple wrecked D6Bs but both were missing pumps so I guess we will see where things go from here.
The conversion uses the same gear. Seems you could get a machine shop to make an adapter. Don't see why you couldn't fabricate your own lines or switch to hydraulic hose and fittings.
Well I wonder what is going on here with these gears. As it looks from the part numbers on the diagrams the numbers say the gears are the same yet when I was talking to a wrecker he asked which pump I was using, the one with a tapered shaft and half moon key or straight shaft and straight key. The adapter plate probably wouldn't be to hard to make and I was thinking of making my own lines or modifying the existing ones to fit. Sure would have been nice if cat could have just pulled up the number for a direct replacement pump though LOL. Oh well when you play with the old toys you gotta expect some hickups here and there.
Would anyone happen to know the actual Vickers pump number for the replacement pump? A fellow at a local hyd shop said with the Vickers number he could source me a pump for a fraction of the cost from Cat. He also said he can make up the lines from hyd hose no problem once he knows what fittings are needed. I have a lead on the adapter plate from a salvage yard so I may be on my way to getting the old girl going again.
7J2194 is a Vickers #36V30A-5C10-103
Ahhh success! I came across another 6B with a bad engine that was pulled all apart and then they decided not to fix it so I was able to buy the whole machine very reasonable. I took the back off the pump tonight and everything looks to be good, now just a matter of cleaning everything up and putting it back together. Im really tempted to open up the hyd tank and check to see if there is anything floating around in there that could have caused the original pump to go out. I tried the Vickers number Old Magnet gave me but no luck with a replacement, seems Cat has that one all locked up from the after market. I was however able to find a pump that would bolt directly to the engine but the shaft is splined rather then tapered so reworking the gear would be required which I don't imagine would be an easy task either.
Might be worth digging a little deeper.....the splined vs taper shaft might interchange.
Before putting what appears to be an extremely hard-to-get-hold-of pump on your precious steed I think I'd be digging into everything in sight in the system, cleaning every line and valve, and including opening up the hydraulic tank to make sure nothing nasty was floating around in the system before turning the key on it.
Good advice. Although the return oil flow goes through a full flow filter under certain conditions the dump valve will dump to the sump without going through the filter. When checking pump shafts and alternate pumps be sure to check pump rotation. The list of pumps I have for the 163 hydraulic control shows the gear pumps to be clockwise rotation and the splined version counter clockwise.
Oh yes I plan on doing a complete system inspection to be sure I don't end up back at square one again. I opened up the filter housing and didn't find anything so I cut the filter open and found only slight traces of metal filings which leads me to think the filter was changed after the pump failed. The hyd tank was supposed to have been removed and the control valve resealed but I kinda wonder just what was done to it, the blade still dropped rather fast when it was in neutral so something is still leaking or put together wrong. I still plan to try figure out how to replace the original pump with a new less expensive version just in case I have another pump fail. If things work out who knows I may just have found an after market replacement kit LOL.