Hi new guy here. Name is Joe Green. we are tackling a D6D final drive hum. I know we will need cat to come remove and install the sprocket but I was under the impression we would be able to get all the way to that sprocket without the big puller. We have the undercarriage out of the way and pivot removed but seem to be stuck at the holder. I’ve pulled the dowel from the holder top but can’t seem to get it to budge. What is the trick here? Thank you!
Welcome Joe. How about posting some photos of where you're at.? Different people refer to the same part by different names.
The holder is mounted to the dead axle have you taken the gig nut off if so you will have to pull it off the shaft. If you can get behind it and wack it it might come
We managed to get the silly thing off. Are we able to remove the dead axle at the point? we are going to pull the final case tomorrow in one piece with the sprocket on the shaft. Outer bearing in the holder was in pretty poor shape. I expected that though as the drain on the final box was so plugged with metal we could not get it to drain. Have a feeling that outer bearing has been bad for some time now.
Why do you want to remove dead axle is it bad
You don’t need to remove the dead axle unless it’s bent or damaged. Your entire final is built on that dead axle. I believe your next step would be to remove the sprocket nut.
Roger that. We have the sprocket nut broke and removed and can see the spline engagement of the sprocket. I thought removing the dead axle would allow us more room to remove the final box intact. we plan to take the box to CAT of Corpus Christi and have the sprocket removed. this is our first time messing with one of these finals so we really appreciate the help. is the dead axle one piece from side to side or is it two separate axles left and right?
The dead axle is tapered fit into the rear final housing and retained by a nut and lock plate. You can see that underneath the machine where the wishbone attaches. The final isn’t designed to be removed the way you are trying to do it. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done. You would be better off in my opinion to have Cat remove the sprocket for you onsite. They can have that done in less than an hour once they show up.
2 axles you have to slide housing off of axle
Also there is things that need to be checked before this final can go back together......dead axle run out, deformed inner taper, etc. You really should have a service manual to do this job yourself.......or have Cat check this stuff for you.
Service manual is on the way. Cat actually said to bring the whole unit to them for removal being that were the machine is the cost to pull the sprocket would be obscene with mileage charges.
I’m pretty sure the dead axle is going to be wiped out. Everything else appears to be. I’ll be getting pictures tomorrow
If I’m remembering correctly, the inner housing has bolts into th mainframe from the inside, which means the outer housing would need to be removed.....which requires the sprocket to be removed first. I hope I’m not telling you incorrect information as it’s been awhile since I have done one of these finals. Someone will correct me if I’m wrong and I’ll eat my crow accordingly. I hope I’m not confusing this final with another, and in turn confusing you!
You can pull the ham case by removing the dead axle nut ,the bearing plate and the track frame bearing. Then remove all the ham case bolts ,the bottom ones are on the back side. On the case flange are some tapped holes to install puller bolts. sling the whole mess with something to pick it and run the puller bolts in and it should come off in one piece. Good luck Bob
This was my observation as well. We will be pulling this dude this afternoon. Get ready to see some carnage. When I listened to this machine move 3’ I told him to shut it down. The gears were singing like a choir in there.
Share some pictures, carnage like that is too good (or too painful) to keep to yourself
Ask your Cat guys about a lineup hub and bar for the diagonal brace on the track frames .The hub bolts into the outboard bearing bore with a shaft that slides across to the smaller bore on the wishbone .The cure for that can be discussed later. In my long ago days at the Cat dealer it seemed bent track frames went hand in hand with toasted finals.
Carnage
That's reet fcuked that is....... Do you think any parts will be salvageable from the final at all.?
The case and sprocket ♂️ Lol
You have to look on the bright side. It's not ALL trashed......
New pinion, new intermediate pinion, new bull gear bearings and seals I have seen far worse Classic Cat or CTP parts
Those corners are dog eared. The ones they let run out of oil have pretty rainbow colors in them, mostly blue and purple
Yeah, I’ve seen worse by far. I would recommend the OEM parts. Years ago the Classic was a great option, but my experience with those type of parts in Classics the last 10 years haven’t been all that great. Spend the extra money and get this right the first time and not face a possible redo.
Of course they will now need a puller to pull the dead axle. If the top pinion is buggered then a puller to pull the hub to remove it. Might as well pull the other side as well. If one side is buggered, the other might not be far behind. Least then you can swap any serviceable parts. tctractors is the resident guru on that style of final drives.
Thanks all y’all. It’s not as nasty as I had expected either.
Thats going to be alot more work if you are replacing that pinion. It goes through the case and is tied to the drive flange of the steering clutch. You really need your service manual!
No unless the teeth are bad you don't need to pull the steering clutches . Your pictures don't show any damage to the intermediate gear but the pinion shaft will need to be replaced, they are 2 pieces. Heck the dead axle don't look that bad. Need pictures of the sprocket shaft when you get it pulled. Bob
That isn't a retainer. Thats the inner bearing race for the outer pinion bearing
Service manual will be here Monday.
so pulling that race isn’t going to let me pull that gear? that gear has a couple chunks missing as well.
Is it safe to assume that bearing failure is the likely culprit in this failure? Do any of you guys have experience where oil sampling has indicated a likely bearing failure before it ends up like this? Just wondering since I had the bearings fail in an idler on my Challenger this fall, never had been run low on oil, and the oil had always been changed between 500 and 1000 hours.
Well then you will be pulling the seat and the fuel tank so you can pull the steering clutch and flange. Bob
Need to see the bearings on the sprocket shaft but usually caused by not adjusting sprocket bearings . By the time oil sample shows damage all ready done. Bob
How often are you supposed to do that? I bought another tractor this fall, I plan on checking the preload on the idler hub bearings when I change the oil. Pretty straightforward procedure to set the preload, torque to 400 while rotating, back off to 50, then torque to 160. If I want to check the preload I'd just need to bend the locking tab back and check the torque, correct?
I was talking about a D6 I be clueless about Challenger tractors but that sounds about right. Bob
That gear and the shaft it’s on is one piece. The other end of that shaft you can’t see is threaded and behind the threads is a tapered splined shaft, and behind that is the bearing case. That shaft is about 12 inches long on total length....your just seeing part of it. You will need to remove the fuel tank, seat, etc.....to get to the top of the bevel gear case. Like I said.....you really need the service manual. This is going to be way more involved than your thinking it will be.
Always have to rain on someone's parade VE?
I’m just sharing the love man!
Crowbar to check sideways movement of the sprocket.
I would say definitely bearing failure led to gear failure.
Oil on the left side was nice and clean. He said that they pulled a roam disc on the last job for many many miles. With nothing but right turns. I’m not certain if that has anything to do with the failure or not. When we get this side together we are cracking the track on the left side and checking for movement. this side you could grab the sprocket and wiggle it side to side by hand
If you are going to have to replace the top pinion you need to check bevel gear and bearings for some reason pulling a disc is hard on them
IDE bet the bearings in the other final are near failing also.
Check the Dead Shaft for correct position and tight in taper, that is keyway at 12 o clock and with lock pin removed the inner C nut is firm, you need to drain the transmission oil to pull out the inter' bearing case to remove the anti rotation pin, do not use a cutting torch on any bearing removal as you will distort the location, weld a scrap tag onto the outer bearing cups so you don't earth through any part of any case, so hold the scrap tag in the Earth clamp then weld the tag to the bearing then run a bead of weld all around the roller face and with the A.R. pins removed the bearing when cooled will pry out. tctractors.
TC! Hello there.