what is everyones thoughts on the d6m xl? what are there design flaws if any, and things they have extra probs with....i have a d4h xl3 that my neighbor wants to buy and im looking for a heavier 6 way blade machine for waterway work. should weigh 10k more and 35 hp.....d6n is out of my price range for what i use it for....thanks
I got a chance this summer to briefly run a D6M with the fingertip controls and it was very foreign to me at first as I'm used to a pedal steer 977H... It didn't take all that long to get comfortable with it though. I don't know what reliablilty of the machine is, but the particular machine I used had in excess of 12000 hrs on it and it started right up and didn't smoke at all when cold. Overall I really liked it. I'll attach a picture of it and what I did with it...
Like any C-frame blade setup, check for play in all the pins and bearings. The 3116 engine is tried and true. look for oil leaks. The finger control machines are more maneuverable but not as powerful as a diff steer machine but both have their purpose. We dont see too many D6m's in the shop so they must be a decent machine.
that its electric instead of levers like my d4h, can you push under load and make a 15-20% turn, like curves in a waterway? or is it all or nothing. is a 750c more of a machine then a 6m? most im looking at have between 6 and 8k hours....thanks
The 3116 engine is a good engine but be aware of the fuel injectors they use, they are not your typical pencil nozzle which is easily replaced. these engine average approx. 4000 to 5000 hrs on them and then you start having hard starting issues with it do to the injectors are worn out and needing replaced. which on these engine you have to have a lot of special tooling to set the sync of the injectors and the timing of the injectors. the X-change injectors through Caterpillar are around $ 160.00 each. not trying to discouarge you but just inform you what they have. we have 3 machines with this engine and all working well. good luck.
Yair . . . Lee-online (or anyone)could you enlighten this old clutch and brake hand as to just what you just what you mean . . . and just how does the "finger control" steer? Cheers
Herky jerky controls until you get some hours on one, the finger controls are switches which release the steering clutchs and apply the brakes, no feel to them. Good power and hydraulics. Scrub , the steering controls are little paddle switches in which you use your left index and middle finger to steer, kid of handy in a way but it takes time, especially if you are used to pulling a steering clutch lever and pushing on a brake pedal.
Fingertip controls are just an electronic way of controlling the clutches and brakes like the old long levers coming out of the centre panel from in front of the operator - just easier on the arms. Diff steering either speeds up or slows down one track relative to the other to steer the machine, so allegedly you still have full drawbar pull (or push) when you are turning. Call me old-fashioned but we have both types of direction control on our job and I much prefer the fingertip clutch/brake controls - I don't like diff steer at all. I went away from long levers years ago, about the time Popeye disappeared from the TV .
I have a d5m xl with finger tip controls and love it. I have run komatsu, deere, and cat. Hydro, peddal, and fingertip control and the only thing I find wanting is being able to counter-rotate in tight situations.
Yair . . . Thanks fellers . . . I know I'm showing my age. Another question:-- I assume Caterpillars "differential steering" is a bit more sophisticated than actually using a braked differential? I ran that system on an an Oliver OC18 back in the sixty's and didn't like it much at all . . . working in timber one track tended to lose traction and "runaway" when trying to turn on slippery logs. Cheers.
One thing with the new at diff steer system, it's hard to lock up a track and do a neutral turn. Got to be better for undercarriage life. I once went from a D6K to a D6M to a D6N in one day, and it was the M for nostalgia, the N for productivity and the K for ease of climbing into the cab. As for the long levers and separate brake pedals, been there with and without power assistance, and no, I wouldn't want to go back. Anyone ever seen an operator over 50 refuse a new machine in favour of a machine as old as he is? All the best.
i have a lever steer and diff steer now, cut my teeth on a d6c. sounds like il get along fine after cussing it for 15-20 min. thanks for the input, it my d4h sells, im going to go look at my d6m ive been eyeing
Fingertip controls nice when calibrated correctly, d6m. Is not diff steer, works nice for fine work. For heavy pushing I would stay with diff steer or hydrastat. 700h nice size.
how heavy is a 700h
i looked it up, i was wanting to go up in size for my next machine, my d4h is 24,900lbs, about the same as 700h
Greetings, folks, haven't been around in a while but now back at the keyboard. CAT diff steer as I remember was kind of preferred for the larger machines. Fingertip clutch disengagement control is wicked good on a D6 and D5, before u fall off into the small iron, where hydrostat is the only way to go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5_iNL9q18Y A basic explanation about diff steer.
I have run D5M's, D6M's, and D6N's a bunch. I do alot of sidehill contour and finishing work and much prefer the diff steer. The fingertip controls are fine except I find that they can get real jerky. Perhaps this is just calibration, but it seems to be inherent in both the 5 and 6 M series. Regarding counter rotation turns, any operator of mine that did that except in an emergency would be receiving his/her last paycheck.
The fingertip controls are nice, once you get used to them. I have a D-5M, and love it. There are some tricks to be smooth. One advantage is that your arm doesn't move, as you hold onto the handle, similar to the tiller bar on a diff steer machine, and just use 2 fingers to pull the levers. They do have a feel, once you dial down your grip, and just pull gently. There is a slight increase in force required to go from just pulling the clutch to activating the brake as well. The brake action is not as smooth and easy to modulate as the lever steer models, and that gives it the jerky reputation among many. I find that when doing precision work, I will pull the clutch and then use the foot brake to modulate. It gives very smooth steering, but has the potential to create extra brake wear as both brakes are active, and you drive through one of them. I do not do it all the time, only when operating at very slow speed and needing to be more precise, like on steep slopes, near buildings, and sometimes when tracing a fine line on GPS. So far it has been reliable, except when the ace water hauler doused it and hydrauliced the engine with less than 3,000 hrs on it. Bent a rod and cracked a couple of pistons.
tj farmer, i am not a dozer operator by trade but have ran many lever steer cat dozers and diff steer cat dozers but the day i spent on a john deere 750c series 1 with configured with a semi u dozer and lgp pads made the d5h and d4h look silly, the balance, gradability, speed control, steering, and amount of material the blade can hold and push was amazing it took about 2 hrs to completely fall in love with this machine...........theironoracle
With all due respect to the JD750c, it's apples to oranges. The JD is about 37,000 lbs, ( I don't believe that JD offered a semi-u with lgp configuration) and the D5h about 27,000 lbs.
here it is! i understand there is a weight difference not this much however, d5h series2 with ripper standard undercarriage 31,300lbs, this machine in photo 33,600 lbs, they can't be any closer to the same class machine, i don't know the horsepower of the john deere, the d5 is 119 hp, ...................theironoracle
Yair . . . That's a nice looking tractor theironoracle . . . its a change to see a small machine with "conventional" blade set up. Can anyone clue me in as to (roughly) where the divide is between machines that have propper oscillating track frames and those that are built rigid like an excavator . . . I can't imagine the solid configuration and only learnt about it a few years back when it came up in casual conversation. Does it have any advantages apart from less maintainance . . . and it should be considerably cheaper. Like I mean is it better for finish blading or whatever? I imagine they'd be rough little SOB's to run. Cheers.
Engine 750C Type...................................................................................................John Deere 6068T with altitude-compensating turbocharger Engine power.....................................................................................140 SAE net hp (104 kW) / 148 SAE gross hp (110 kW) @ 2,100 rpm SAE Operating Weights 750C LT 750C WT 750C LGP Base weights were computed for units with standard equipment, rollover protective structures, full fuel tanks, and 175-lb. (79 kg) operators. All-Hydraulic (PAT) Dozer ...................................................................33,736 lb. (15 335 kg) N/A 36,576 lb. (16 625 kg) Semi-U (High Production)...................................................................31,712 lb. (14 415 kg) 33,843 lb. (15 383 kg) N/A Straight..............................................................................................N/A 33,324 lb. (15 147 kg) N/A Refer to the Attachment Guide or see your dealer for details regarding Semi-U (Low Profile), Straight, and Mechanical Angle blades for the 750C LT. According to JD's literature the semi U was not available in LGP configuration. Your picture seems to dispute that. The semi u would certainly be more productive than a PAT (6 way) blade. As for gradeability the PAT dozers set further forward from the front of the tractor usually to allow clearance when angled, which makes for a bit more chasing the grade I suppose, but I have not noticed much difference. Scrub Puller, I believe that JD is rigid frame up to the 650 size, and for the most part the low track cats up to D5 are also rigid frame. They are definetly rougher, but some prefer them on steep sidehills. They do not "walk" over rocks and such like the walking frame tractors do.
Hi TJfarmer I ran a D6M LGP for most of last summer doing flood cleanup work if your not use to it the steering can be jerky. My boss had told me overall it's a decent machine but they had some electronic issues for a while requiring several visits from Toromont (our Cat dealer here) to address the issues plus I had some problems with the gear shifter as well as it wouldn't want to go in or out of gear from time to time. You can steer a little bit under load but not a lot, but I had some issues with the tracks as the owners had replaced the chains, sprocket segments, idlers and rollers. The pads were worn a bit but I guess they figured not enough to warrant replacement so they had welded on each pad a paddle I guess you could call it for extra traction but on the one side some of them had broken off or the welds failed so if you trying to load up the blade you'd end up turning into that direction which was kinda annoying. But overall it was a pretty decent machine with nice ice cold A/C and never any engine problems or final drive problems. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRo-B43XPbA&feature=g-crec-u http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdxU4Kxqwgs&feature=relmfu
Yair . . . Well I'm buggared if I know, I never remember any problems with operating properly adjusted clutch/brake setups during about 60,000 hours of seat time and they wern't jerky and they were simple and reliable and when they broke any busted ass bush mechanic could fix them . . . it seems that here again complexity and electronics has taken the place of common sense just so the current crop of wannabees can twiddle little levers like playing a computer game instead of working like a man. Rant over and cheers.
They probably do, somewhat. How can you get more productive than... well, you know. lol OCR...
I was running a D5M recently with the fingertip steering. I like clutch/brake steering, but I kind of prefer the old levers and pedals. Or just pedals, like a track loader. But the fingertip controls are fine once you get the feel of them. There are tricks to running them smoothly like JDofmemi said.
I own a D6M and run it every week. As far as the fingertip controls, in my opinion they are like lever steer, diff. steer and the old lever/brake steer. It just takes time to get use to it. the 6M has a mechanical engine but an electronic transmission. It's nice having the mechanical engine as far as self repairs but there is little you can do with the transmission without a laptop and calibrating gauges. I just replaced all of the transmission sensors and put in a new transmission wiring harness. Luckily the 01 D6M with my serial number series had a large view plate under the seat/top of tranny so the tranny did not have to come out to change the sensors. I do know that the sensors and wiring harness have been problematic for the 6M. Other than that it runs great, pushes and grades well, blows cold air in the summer and hot air in the winter. I am looking at upgrading to a 6NLGP this year but thats only due to the ARO set-up and more of my work is requiring an LGP. I would highly recommend the D6M for farm use.
I have a customer that runs 6 of the d6m's. fingertip controls can be wonderful when calibrated correctly. but there are a lot of factors that come into play. the steering clutch and brake control valve can become problematic if the machine does not get regular servicing. contamination can cause sticking spools. the valve also has 4 screen orifice tubes in the plate that seperates the sections. they can get stopped up. i have also had the screen orffices come unscrewed and cause problems. i transmission speed sensors are inside the transmission, therefore if they go bad the machine shifts hard and the tranny has to come out to change them. also the PAT blade system is not made for rough work. the front ends have had to be line bored several times. just my two scents.