I am looking for photographs of 2,4,5 and 6 from this diagram so I can get these parts built. I have a 17A with the D7D winch, but these parts are missing and I would like to have them made.
I remember it as just a machined slot for the ball to sit in , there may have been a 3 / 8 bolt hole threaded to take a lock to hold the ball . I never bothered with it . Number 4 is a ball pressed on the end of the rope or a wedged ball that you would be able to fit on yourself . It comes supplied with two wedges that have to be slid into the wire to make it bigger so it does not pull out . I prefer the wedged ball because I didn't need a shop to press one on . Your wedges should match the twist of the wire if you can , it is still possible to fit with mismatched wedges .
Thanks for the response. What I am going to have to do is a bit more complicated. I will be using dyneema rope and I need to see what the original retention system looks like. Over the years the small bits were "lost" and at present they retain a length of wire rope with a clamp. My plan is to find out what Hyster did for those parts as far a design and size. According to the parts and winch manual the wire rope is retained by pouring zinc into the end of the ferrule and then retaining it with #5 and providing for a smooth lay with #2. I would realy like to see what #2 and #5 look like in the flesh. The bolt is 5/8" UNF according to the parts book. Hyster liked fine threads on this thing.
There wouldn't be very many 17a's fitted with dyneema rope . Using white metal melted into a ferrule is the original way of doing the job where the wedged ball is easier . How are you planning to fix the knob on this rope as neither of the two options look usable ?
No plans till I find out what those parts look like. That's why I asked, so I can make plans. This might be the only one fitted with Dyneema Rope. I am not sure how many 17As there are with D7D winches are even alive right now and complete enought to provide that info. Can't hurt to ask. I suspect you don't have one. haha
I have a 17a alright , never seen the bits you are looking for other than the ball . I suspect they would have flown off when the rope was let out too far . Long before I ever had it .
Now I am intrigued. The book says a ferrule and you have a ball. Would like to see how that works.
All winchlines attach with a ferrule. They used to be attached with molten metal. These days they usually pressed on the end when a new rope is ordered. Or nowadays most people use wedge ferrules that can be easily made up in the field. D7 size ferrules are usually a "L" size. with L7 for 7/8; L8 for 1" and 'J' for larger ropes L are 2 1/8 outer diameter x 2 9/16 long. J size is 2 3/8 outer diameter and 2 9/16 long The only only drum filler retainers that your looking for Ive ever seen are on brand new winchs. All the winchs that Ive ever seen working the retainers were long gone. And you don,t need them, everyone winds the rope on firmly on the first layer and the ferrule is securly locked in its hole it can,t come out unless operator totally unwinds the bottom layer. And 2nd layer runs over the top of 1st rope layer and its ferrule and is then totally covered.
I also call it a knob , it can also be referred to as a wedged socket , and if you ever have to fit a wedge in a rope that has the wrong twist you will call it a few more . There would be damage to something if the rope was pulled from the winch when those bits a blocking the ball from leaving .
D6 MERV, thanks. The dimensions and operational details are helpful. I will be adapting this for HMPE synthetic rope so anything that bites down on the rope is out. Whoever last ran this thing had put a clamp on the end of the wire rope. Too cheap for even a ferrule. Haha
thats just asking for trouble thinking a clamp would hold wire rope onto the drum. FWIW I was told by several people a D7 17A had enough power to break 1" wire rope; whether that was with a jerk, like yanking in the clutch at full rpms and a dead load. Or just lugging down to maximum torque I don,t know. ?? But your synthetic rope needs to be at least as strong as 1" wire rope
Often , usually when my roller got caught below a Kanuka tree . Nose would come up in the air a bit and that would be that . Mostly at the termination whether it was a shop loop or half hitch .
I'm not a winch expert but my understanding is most, if not all, of the grip securing a cable to the drum is from the 2 full wraps choking on drum, not from the end bit attached to the drum. That end bit is just there to allow the first couple wraps to be snug enough to enable the choke. I'd think a slick synthetic rope would need a few more wraps to choke but this is also compensated in that you can knot it on the drum and then have the pigtail laid out across the drum so the first wrap clamps down on the pigtail. Either way, I agree with above that trying to reuse steel cable attachment bit methodology might not be the best route for your synthetic rope.
I also don´t think a rope of any kind will hold... When i was yound i used to work with skidders, not big winches like a D7 , but the steel ropes we used were at least 20mm /3/4 a thumb wide , and they whyp and knot themselves rub on the drum a f&%$# else where, and the worst wich almost breaks them imediatly was when the upper coil slind under the coil below, if did not break it would get snug stucked there. We had a terminal wedged ball to fit a new rope to the drum, but the best bet was simple knot, it never failed , so as to hook a chocker set, a knot made wonders.
I am well aware of the rating of the rope and have already used it to pull trees out by the roots without the winch. I know the winch rating is 44,000lbs which should be enough to pull the tractor up a near vertical slope. The rope is sized accordingly. The nice thing about rope is that if it breaks it can easily be spliced in the field and is not as deadly as a cable when it does. As a bonus it is lightweight.
Dyneema doesn't handle abrasion very well, (it hasn't taken off in the crane world because of that) and UV eats it up. If you make a cover for the drum when you aren't using it, the sun won't damage it as much. Terminating the dyneema is the problem. I would splice a loop, and drill and tap the drum for a anchor pin bolt, with a steel sleeve over the bolt for the loop to rest on. Make the sleeve with a hook/ head (even just big washer) on it, so the rope can't come up and over it. The clamp/ compression style terminations for a steel cable , won't hold dyneema in a drum, dyneema is too slick and will just walk out. You may be able to make a epoxy thimble/ swedge that would hold, but I wouldn't.
Digging around I see these guys show a couple drum attachment options: How to Install a Synthetic Winch Line www.masterpull.com …maybe one of those will line-up with what you have…post-up some pics so we can see the drum/etc. Also, I think heat coming from the drum might come into play, maybe a sheath/covering will help keep that first wrap on the drum happy?? Hopefully the only difficulty you run into is what color rope to use- CAT YELLOW of course!!
Crane Operator, I was thinking the same way as you about termination. That's why I was seeking information about how Hyster setup the drum and the fittings. Currently the rope has a thimble in both ends. It may or may not fit in the pocket and allow the bolt to anchor it. I have seen how Warn terminates their vehicle winches. Knowing what the existing drum has for attachment points is important if I want to do it the easy way and not reinvent the wheel. And HMPE can easily be spliced back together if it does break. I am aware of both the abrasion issue, UV and the inadvisability of trying to clamp it. I may have to get the thimble out and make a custom donut that fits down in the pocket. Cranes and winches are a little different as far as safety with a line parting, with a cable on a crane being far more dangerous than in a winching operation. In winching whip back from a cable or chain is a big issue. So is cable handling on rough or steep ground. If you have been following the recovery of Starship 40 you can see the remnants of HMPE rope dangling off the sea-level engines. They broke more that one and probably because of abrasion. In the end they terminated with chains.
Thanks for the link. The abrasion sleeve in a bright color is a good idea. Signals the operator he has gone too far. Not too worried about heat from the drum with a mechanical drive.