I have a D7F with believed to be a 3306 in it but I have serial and pump number. But what I’m looking for is any info on getting rusted bushing(internal splined nut) out of the top of pump and any diagrams for gaskets and a damaged thrust bearing plus washers in governor housing… TIA Cat dealer has been no help in finding ANY information Serial# 94N1638 Pump housing# 5S7999 Governor housing# 7S8825
That's an early s/n unit with D333C engine.The 3306 for the 94N didn't come in until s/n 84N5192. Uses the compact fuel injection (early scroll) injection pump and matching governor. Takes a splinned socket tool to remove the pump retainer nuts. Can be a bugger to remove if the nut/s are corroded/damaged.
Thank you for the engine information anything helps. Can you still find the nuts for this pump? I have the tools but they started to strip splines, I tried a little heat and air hammer on the socket just to vibrate it. The rack got stuck and was forced back and forth with governor weights damaging the bearing. But the pump is now freed up and working. I’ll have to reinstall pump and adjust the idle screws.
The nuts are actually referred to as bushings #2M4314 and are readily available.
Take a socket that will rest on the “bonnet” and whack the dog **** out of the socket 5-6x.. THEN AND ONLY THEN use an air gun to zip them out.. I’m not kidding..
Is the attached any help.?
If u strip the inside of the bonnet, I’ve seen guys”try” to walk it out w a pin punch.. it don’t work.. U end up hitting the housing and that’s not good.. The only way I’ve seen it work is to braze/weld a nut to the bonnet and use an air gun to zip it out.. Good luck.. it ain’t fun..
Back again with a question, any of you helpful guys got a better diagram of governor housing, assembly or setting of governor? Found I had 3 stuck pumps but forgot order of small spring in governor and my diagram doesn’t show it well
Nige, I've been wondering for a long time about those Cat pages you post. Are the pictures in the actual Cat manuals as poor as what shows up here that I see? Joe H
What spring are you referring to.... Diagram is for a D330C but it's the same parts in a D333C
In the case of the docs I posted above the last update to them was done in 1971. I think that explains a lot. If you think Cat manuals are poor you should see the rest.......
#41 does it go governor housing>spring>collar(looks like 40) then collar (34) or does spring #41 go inside of governor housing(with the weights).
Nige, I was a Jag mechanic for 30 years. Brit manuals, when it says "With a suitable prising bar" you know you're in deep ****. Step 1 of anything is "Disconnect battery". Checking washer fluid, disconnect battery. Joe H
I seen this
And also collar #40 is inside the spring on your diagram and opposite on a D7f manual I seen #36…. Got me worried
Here's a clearer picture, actually for the 94N.....Does that answer your question?
Well the issue I’m seeing now is does anyone know the direction of collar 36. Shows flat towards spring and shoulder towards back, and some pictures show shoulder inside spring?
The collar is the seat for the spring. Goes inside the spring.
Follow up and questions I’m only working on this dozer when I’m free for a neighbor(in remote wooded area 20° slope ,no electricity around) had multiple no call/no shows on repair so I’m stuck doing it. Original problem was 3 rusted/stuck gears(rod) on injection pumps, replaced those 3 pumps(local cat didn’t even have a part for the number in manual, so I got foreign), new seals and bonnets. The pump is assembled and passed all the checks described in book(rack travel and injector depth), torqued bonnets with new CAT seals to 150lbs. Didn’t mess with governor other than rpm(have them set about 50% high and low) He’s the problem now we separated this at pump and transfer flange, just slid oring out. Reinstalled with new oring. #1) Im getting fuel out of injector lines with fuel “off or on” is this normal?(rack is fully back) #2) I’m getting steady fuel to bleeder screw on filter housing and injector lines at injectors, BUT only under gravity or hand primer. When you crank it shoots a good stream then foamy fuel, no external leaks seen. ^^^will turn over, sometimes hit on one cylinder but has not ran #3) an older gentleman told me the rectangular coupler on the pump is fool proof to a point, my question is the motor to pump 1:1 ratio. lined it up with unique wear marking on it but I’m still worried it maybe a 1:3 or something? Transfer pump and hand primer stayed in place on motor Sorry it’s lengthy but you guys are my only help
Have you tried cranking wile injector lines are loose they should spray fuel out. It dont matter if pump is off ro on you should get fuel out of the lines have you tried giving it a sniff of starting fluid
I own a IP related business, with a friend that owns a Diesel repair shop we provide systems out of OEM specs, Tunned Injection Systems for all aplications people search for, (not often CAT´s in our neighbourhood) We never had a CAT IP at the shop in last 20 years,(they do not fail, very often problems can be dealt in installation) and 20 years ago i was not on the business, but this pumps are no diff from Bosch systems or Stanadyne just to name couple, Inline Pumps usually are build in 2 separate parts at least, the Pump and the Governor. Most Inline Pumps including CAT´s need to be balanced(Injection timing between Cylinders , so they fire 120 degrees apart and not 123 as ex) that can only be done in a bench tester. Most of them fuel calibration, as well, its possible to do it on the installation, but its advisable to take it at IP shop so it can be corrected to OEM specs. For non diesel aquaited mechanics or hobyists, usually reports are same as u posted... no fuel out of all pipes, not firing, assembly dificulties and so on . Correction its not easy, if one has repaired critical systems as for exaple seals on the barels or plunguers , disconection of GOV from pump housing... rack seals . Some CAT Inline pumps need to be bled plunguer by plunguer and they jerk off without the valve(injector) in the line. Foamy or bubling fuel when one crack the line is quite common, is very common. specially if the main galleries and piping was out for some reason, thats not a problem. What i sugest before u go any further is checking all 6 valves(injectors) receive fuel, and bled them out, crack at the top of valve. Rack full fuel position, if u have doughts on GOV assembly, Push it by hand. Crack the line just a bit for fuel to squeeze out, not completly open, foamy fuel may will come out, if needed u can remove valves from engine and check injection to atmosphere. This is easy done in 1 hour by 2 gents. This procedure is the first we do in the bench test squedule, 1 to check for proper assembly , 2nd for unwanted leak detection. Once u´re sure pump is injecting, only 2 problems to correct, if u have any of it, Pump Timing and Governor settings. Besides rack movement from the governor there is no point chasing after idling or max RPM , CUT off and so on, that u can do after u fire the engine and set it at proper timming. As i know CAT IP timming on 32/33/34/35 series engines is pretty much bullet prof, one locks the fly wheel with a special tool at the CYL 6 Fire position, lock the pump with the tool, and slide the pump in the gear, there are the fine timming but that is of no need for now. Check the book if u have one, sometimes the place to use the tools difers , someting that does not differ is both locks must match. And this procedures will alow u to get the engine firing, if the governor is not controlling rack properly the engine may not start due to lack of injection , thats why i mentioned to slide it by hand if needed. Installing governors are a tricky business, some of them even have add ons that play critical roles like the Torq limit function, altitude compensation and so on. First lets see if u can get the fuel out of injectors and fire the ** . Hope it helps, good luck
Yes sir, I’ve cranked and primed until batteries died out twice(brand new batteries from cat), had to be recharged overnight by generator…. I’ve tried starting fluid also but after it runs out of spray in intake it only does a “pop….. pop” like it’s hitting on one cylinder each rotation. don’t believe it could be timing other that the rectangular connection between pumps, I didn’t remove cam or gear(only pumps and rack). Didn’t remove any fuel lines other than the short tube between transfer and injection. I’ve done the steps I’ve done for years, work my way up the line until I find air. But the problem is we have great(non aerated) fuel with gravity or hand pumped(injectors lines loose or off) BUT ONCE YOU START CRANKING, IT GETS “VERY AREATED” I’ve had her spun up quick on ether and I’d say have total of 3 hours cranking with same results.
Then u have a problem in the pump elements... they are not injecting anything ... the problem is in the plunguer and barrels, either they not seat in the cam, they leak(are not sealed properly) , or they are not rotating in the right amount cause they turn when the rack is actuated... they turn to increase fuel output and to decrease, and shut off , no fuel out... somehow u manage to leave that thing in the wrong manner, try to redo that right way. remove injector to check for injection quantity and move rack by hand to see what´s going on....
by the manual and dial indicator I am getting the ~ 22 mm of travel which should mean I’m good on travel. The 3 pumps(plunger and barrel) I ordered online already had gear on rod but I didn’t try to check them(hopefully right from factory). The other 3 I just cleaned up with parts washer and fine cleaning pad. Cleaned up the little plunger and spring in top(cap with threads for injector line). I’m thinking possible barrel off time or possibly my oring is sucking air?
Thats exactly what i was trying to say, when u assemble that thing u got to check fuel sincronization between cylinders, so when u push the rack all cylinders receive same amount of fuel. That is done by checking plunguer heigh @ top of stroke, and by rotating them (Individually) to seat on the rack gear... I´m not very familiar with those pumps as i mentioned, at a distance i´m not able to direct u exactly how to fix it, but untill an experience member can help, i got a clue on how to get there by trial and error, First check wich injector is giving fuel, that probably is the one plunguer that is correct, then rotate the other barels in the position they inject the same amount as the one thats firing. Eventhough once u have them all in sync, the rack might be in the wrong position. But that is secondary, cause once u got the dozer running u can also understand if its thr well, idling well and turning off well. If it was a bosh pump i could help in close eyes , nevertheless its similar , just in bosch pump its the plunguer that turns, and the barrel is shimmed to the desired output.
That’s my problem, I’m getting fuel and it’s about even across all 6(without a measuring cup). It’s like it’s got an air suction leak only when cranking, it’s got me stump. I read a few other forums before asking any questions…. Hand pump while cranking, cracked lines at injection pump and after I got fuel there then I did the line at the injector. What is also making it a pain is the ~20° slope(blade down hill) dozer ran for 3 hours pushing dirt, the. I went to push huge oak tree down the hill to valley….. boom it died with rack stuck. I did the wrong thing by tapping rack back and forth cracking the “rod” above the gears. So I dissembled only upper part of pump(didn’t want to mess up timing on gear) cause I can’t fine timing set fixture for the pump. With with fuel on at tank the injectors ports on pump(all 6 will run fuel out) when cracked. I can pump and immediately get the best air free fuel ever, but it once you crank it all bets are off, it will spray a stream 8 foot away from the dozer from injection pump but once air is gone and hooked up you get one lonesome cylinder trying(pop). But when it isn’t spraying 8 foot while cranking it’s almost like foam. 50% air 50% fuel. I even tried pressuring the tank with 5 psi with no luck. I kept all the shims with the pumps they were for. I would think it would atleast try to pop off on more than one since 3 are old. In the book it says to center rack which I made a tool out of rod, old gear off broke pump and bushing to hold rack centered when installing plungers, and check everytime I dropped one in, it say I think ~22 mm if it’s okay and if you get one tooth off it’s like ~16mm (not by book rn)but I had 22 all the way until the end. The connection between transfer and injection can only go 12 o’clock position or 180° from that(like a flat head screw and screwdriver) i put it back based on the unique ware spot on it. Only worry is that the connection has a different ratio from The crank or cam to pump(like I need to time first injection port to first cylinder) but I don’t have the special tops from cat to check perfectly I appreciate everyone’s help that is trying to help me I really do.
Have you checked the entire length of your fuel lines for corrosion pin holes? I have had steel fuel lines corrode where they're clamped, or where they sit against the chassis and where dirt and moisture has built up. You get pinholes in the lines in these positions and they will leak very small amounts, but the transfer pump will draw air in from them.
U might have 1 stuffed injection capsule thats blowing compression back into the system. Remove injection pipes where they screw onto nozzles. Crank engine over, see if any shoot out air.
I wouldn’t believe so unless I possibly did it reinstalling, I was lucky to not touch fuel line from tank to transfer pump. But there like a 3 inch double ended bung between transfer and injection put I removed but replaced oring when I did. My only guess right now it to maybe plug off injection pump and pressurize the tank plus lines for an hour. Just hard getting a compressor to it rn im was kinda thinking this, it would explain the air on crank only I believe…. They shoot air between streams of fuel when cranking. Could you pressurize(couple psi) the individual pumps to see which one is stuck?
Well, u seem to have a pretty nasty thing going on there… 1- i still did not understold why u went messing with the pump 2- did u remove the pump from the engine? 3- have u checked the 6 injectors opened to the air as I mentioned? we have seen in the shop so badly damaged injectors that compression goes up the line and flood pump with air, mimic a air leak in the main gallery and consequently not injecting properly. (highly unlike) we also seen debris accumulating in the injectors and clogging completely the system. as far as I know even with a bad lift pump this system would operate without problem as long as it has fuel fed by gravity, no need to pressurize thank, I also assume u checked the filters, cause I seen many troubles which filters and lines were the culprit…
#1) cause we called injection places and they didn’t want it, or had field service techs say no cause the hill or just not come back. And it can’t be a field ornament for years so if nobody else is gonna do it I will. It’s a neighbor farmer that I’m the property manger of, they had this dozer since 90s(only a few hours a year put on it) #2) I removed the injection pump from the transfer pump like I’ve stated a couple times. Took it home to my shop where I have a lot more tools and cleaner environment. #3) I’m guessing I’m not following your drift (I’m getting fuel from all 6 about equal) I have done everything by the D333c books EXCEPT check the small gear position on the 3 new ones I installed. The old ones should atleast do something. But I’m think it should atleast be able to start or pop off on old 3 pumps. The rack what centered and I made a tool to hold center. It says in manual to go full range with rack ~22 mm if you mess up one tooth it will be about ~16mm. I think the only possible solution is when the guy stated it maybe back pressure from other cylinder when it’s not delivering fuel.(I’m guessing it’s the small piston in top of each injector or in in the injectors) I’m getting air from somewhere. Tank is 1/2 full, the original culprit was water in tank after sweating over the year I believe(rusted 3 rear pumps solid) but the front 3 were fine. I keep the shims with the corresponding barrels(other than new ones). I Pressurize tank and I have no external leaks, the fuel is 99.9% air free ONLY WHEN GRAVITY OR HAND PRIMER. I’ve maintained every tractor, even rebuilt case powershifts, replace/rebuilt engines and do everything else for these people(in their 80s) I’m not fresh to this and also been working on Mack trucks for 10 years. not here to make money I’m just trying to get this thing moved atleast to a barn 300 feet away before snow but only working on it in free time. It foams/bubbles only when cranking and the air is between the firing order if that makes since (when #1fires you get a steady stream but the others foam, when #2 fires same thing, every line but #2 will foam while #2 shoots a 8 foot stream)
And And sorry I forgot to mention we changed filter and drained water when I first used it, pushed dirt a couple hours, changed filter on it after once it shut down but didn’t know it was mechanical issue.
Let me attempt to shed light on the suggestion above....... What @Mquinista & @D6 Merv are suggesting is a test procedure for the fuel injectors to ensure that the check valve inside each one is closing correctly and that compression (air in other words) from one or more cylinders is not finding its way back to the injector pump via an injector line (or lines). It's a simple check: 1. Disconnect all 6 lines to the injectors at the injector end. Move them completely out of the way so that the screwed fitting at the end of each injector is completely exposed. To do this you may have to loosen clamps and/or the lines at the injection pump end. 2. With the governor control in the OFF position have someone hold a rag over the open end of one injector. Crank the engine over on the starter for a few seconds and observe whether fuel/air is being blown backwards out of the injector. Repeat this test for each injector in turn. 3. If more than 1 or 2 injectors have leaky check valves I would personally suggest to replace all 6.
Thank you, great write up! I wasn’t sure the injector itself was check valve like that. I will try this as soon as I’m free(probably 4 days from now) Anything to add I’ll be glad to try from anybody else to before I go over there. I will try to video the “foam” I keep calling it, if nothing fixes it.
Hey, got back… haven’t had much time this days… ok that D7 has a 333 engine and I was thinking it was 3306 … 333 is PC engine right? If so besides the injector may clog the PC may clog too. Both things are highly uncommon but happen every now and then… they do cause of contamination. my question was why did the engine stop in first place… not why u removed the pump, cause that I figured out. Fuel pump problems besides leaks and contamination are very rare. And again that thing is clockworks either u know what to do or is better not to touch it. but since u did let’s thy to help u out if we can. What u report does not make much sense… plunguers can not have air leaks… air trapped in fuel gallery may give u trouble my guess is u already bled it. Nevertheless if u have compression return from a bad injector that yes may give u those problems. Again having that is uncommon. what Nige suggested it’s true to check delivery valve on injector. That valve should arrest anything comming back down the line. And the line stays pressurized , to be ready for next stroke. I also suggest u to remove the injectors and test them, test in open air. I also suggest u to check the PC for clogging , if your engine is a PC type engine. u just crank it with the injectors out , and all 6 cylinders must wissle out. but if I was in your shoes I would remove IP, injectors and lines and diesel shop i’d go.
If you are getting aeriated fuel only wile cranking it has to be your injection nozzles just had this problem with a 955 the customer put after market nozzles in and 2 of them were blowing back on compression stroke. remove the fuel lines at the injectors and see if any are blowing back
I’ll just type a replay, I’m sorry I didn’t understand what you meant by why did you take pump off. Early morning august 22nd I drained water and changed filters, brung our transfer tank down and filled 50% had a main water line installed nearby and the company gave dirt to the farmers to fill sink holes(~20 tri axles) I pushed up dirt into a pile for I’d say 2-3 hours. then preceded to drive across the farm I’d say a half mile (Using a lower valley to traverse) I then came to where the tree was just laying there(BAD spot in the middle of the slope) county road at top of hill. So I went up the hill about 10’ from road and did a 180° turn( blade down hill) I had headphones on so I pressed blade against the tree but felt a power loss, to remove my headphones and it was dead. Only the weight of the dozer on the hill was keeping it rolling, dropped blade and set brake. (Now it sets halfway from valley to road(about 300 feet from road) Changed filters first, then what I didn’t know( I do now) that the dozer has to have fuel lock for oil pressure in governor after noticing the pedal was stuck, I preceded to just remove the governor housing cover to find the rack was stuck but not the rack itself(could feel I’m guessing gear lash) I tried the tapping rack method back and forth with very small hammer with no luck vvvvvv So now here we are vvvvvv 3 new pumps, with all new bonnets and bonnets seals for all 6 New oring between transfer and IP I believe we have changed filters 3 times now. Destroyed a battery cranking so we replaced both. The main thing is that it must have been water I believe, cause I still couldn’t get 3 rods to move or come out of pump after I got them removed from housing. I have a video of her purring on August 22nd at 7am and did good with dirt for hours.
Hey man, Get everithing out related to injection system take it to the shop inspect everithing for rust including piping, check the pre cups , take injector to diesel shop to clean and pop test, wile u there overhaul pump and have it bench tested and adjusted. I'm so sorry but i don't think u will be able to get it cleaned and set correctly by youself. Rust contaminated all the system and is the injectors making the assle
What I was thinking now, one field tech did say that I should fill tank 100% in off season to try to combat sweat water. It always indoors other than now for obvious reasons lol. I’m sure this is the case with any pump, put he said “water was the enemy of these things”, I guess I possibly just got a domino effect going now when the water got to pump. What is the best way to prevent this again, i thought maybe putting some oil in filter housing and let it take some into pump then shut it down until we need again(possibly months) I was reading lastnight after the replies and in the book I found where the nozzles are replaceable item known to wear. But anyways I will do the couple test and possibly get pic or vid if not luck, or track down someone to go over pump and injectors.
Thing is, once a IP is rusted inside due to water everithing the water touched is pitted, sometimes one can salvage some parts, but usually is overhaul time with huge budget as parts are expensive. Very often a second hand part is the go, being aware that it may be in the same condition. Water in thanks usually are due to condensation of humidity of the air inside tank, the less air the less humidity accumulates. thanks usually have a water sump for this reason. but if tank is 40 year old without service it can accumulate a lot of rust and water… filters and water separators should prevent that. No need to have drastic preventive measures like u mentioned for a machine that works every season, just check if water sump is working and top it. Before u use it next season clean sump, until good diesel come out drain water separator , give it a new fuel filter and u are good to go. as long as pump is filled with clean diesel everithing is fine for years. Now that we got the picture of what happened, we can conclude u had a bad contamination by water some time ago it caused many parts after the filter to rust, and this rust released and clogged everything upstream the plungers. The fact that u replaced some parts did not solved the problem. Solution I guess is to clean everything, nozzles , lines, pump, check if PC are clean, and try to start it, and u may be lucky to be able to bring the horse to stable. Once there I guess u know what to do. Pls post your next results so we learn from your exp. regards
Update while I’m at dozer, so I took lines off at pump and submerged lines in a small bucket, have air pushing back towards pump on 5 out of 6 injectors. So seems to be capsule stuck issue now. Got some vids I’ll add to YouTube and give link when I get home later.
Well Hellooooo Jimmy...............!!
The simple test I always use is with all the injector lines removed, with an oil can give a squirt of oil into the top of each injector and crank the engine, you will see the oil fly off the top of the inlet, to have 5 out of 6 capsules fail is really unheard of, it sounds like dirt has been allowed to get in to an open connection around 1 end of the injector pipe, the capsules are only low pressure around 750 psi injection, the thought that crap has been through the filters and pump takes some understanding, to bleed your fuel system all you need to do is open the injector lines with the hand governor control in the shut off position only and the hand primer will soon have fuel flowing.
That’s a damn good bit of diagnostic work.!!! Both of u.!!
T'was not us......... Go back to the previous page it was @D6 Merv & @Mquinista who first suggested checking the injector capsules but the OP didn't quite understand what they were wanting him to do. I just tried to write out a procedure that made it easily understandable to him.
I’m sharing videos from this morning of the injector lines submerged in diesel test. Cranking of injection pump Front 3 injector test Rear 3 injector test You can the the incline I’m on by the fuel in bucket on front 3, bucket is flat on pump.
I’m guessing cylinder 2 is the only one to pass the bucket test?
Refer to the comment below from Post #33 on the previous page............ IMHO it's not a case of IF that 6th capsule is going to fail - it's when.
It's amazing, 5 of the 6 nozzles are stuck open.Oh well, if I had to put a set of nozzles in any engine,this would be it.
Oh I’m going to order all 6, but I just wanted to post the videos to really show it, hopefully no more problems, I guess it just kept good prime while I pushed dirt until I went on hill. I pulled rear injector before I left and the screen inside had little to no stuff on it. Capsule had 8n4694 on it, any cross references recommended?? cause when I type it in, it comes up with 4 cross references.
8N-4694 is a very old Part Number. The latest P/N available is 8N-8796 and everything services to that number. Other older numbers include 7S-8722 & 7S-9891, but 8N-8796 is what you should be asking for.
Sorry for the delay(was horribly sick for weeks) well after all new injector capsules and seals. We are getting white smoke now which is better than we had, but now I noticed when I unscrew the bleeder screw ontop of fuel filter housing this mysterious hole leaks under the transfer pump?? Any clue on what that could be? It hasn’t popped off on fuel but ether yes. If you crank after it will bellow white but not start.
If there’s a hole in your lift pump, it’s a weep hole, telling u have a leaking diagram & rather than filling the engine w fuel, it comes out the hole to let u know something is wrong.
So that mean there is a problem with transfer pump now? Could it happen when I reinstalled injection pump… I never removed the transfer pump
Alright well I rebuilt the transfer… not luck. So I bought a rebuilt one and it’s still pissing but I was told the one I bought is an interchange and need your knowledge cause it may be the problem…. I have had a 4n4864 I believe but bought a 4n4873 which was told was right for my serial number, doesn’t have plugs on side for spring and has an extra hole between cone and outlet or the inlet. Could there be any other thing that would make weep hole leak? Or is it just wrong pump or another bad pump? But everything else is good
Adn to add it only leaks on crank or when you open valve/knob ontop of fuel filter housing. When you install pump and open valve on tank it will not leak until one of 2 things are done above
According to your Serial Number, providing the engine is the original, the fuel transfer pump should be a 7S-4430 which updates to 4N-4864. Try posting photos of what you had originally and what you bought.
Need more info on where exactly do you see the leak/flow. The filter bleed valve is open to air when open. The drain line ties into the accessory housing drain line which would handle any leakage from between the seals in the transfer pump (also open to air). From what you describe could be a faulty filter vent valve, leaks under pressure but not under gravity flow. I don't see anything wrong with your new/old transfer pump. The extra port gets blocked off when mounted.
A small 3/8 inch hole in accessory housing on bottom just below the hole when the transfer pump bolts to. No pipe or hose on it just a hole. If I open that valve I can put my finger over that hole and the flow stops. The flow is heavy when I turn the valve but a stead drip when starting. I even tried to bleed air from injectors only with hand pump and cranking like someone suggested above I believe. It popped of for 2 seconds then died. Went to crack injections lines again and had more air again. I feel like whatever is still leaking is where my air is possibly getting in at. The old pump has the plugs on the sides one has a spring and plunger behind it and which the new one doesn’t have. Thank you for the reply
7S4430 is the pumps you should have and has the pressure relief valve that is necessary.
Does that mean that 4N-4864 superseded that part number like @Nige said?
Also rebuilt the original one on machine (one in pic without hour meter) and made sure all seals were back where they were, but it was slightly stiff probably 90° then free the other 270°. All seals from gear to the hour meter changed except anything in pressure relief areas which I just cleaned up. They both had same outcome of leaking fuel from accessory housing. I brung old one home and thinking of disassembling again to see what I did wrong, only got any stiffness when both halves bolted back together.
7S-4430 = 4N-4864
Can you get a picture of the actual leakage point on the accessory housing? There is more than one arrangement.
This is the picture I have and I also have a video of when I open the top valve I can share on link, give me just a min
the hole that is leaking is the area(bumped out area) just left of #8 in picture
You mean where the fuel drain hose is supposed to be screwed into?
Yes, that's the accessory housing drain line I was referring to. Thanks. I can't come up with any other source for leakage here other than leaking transfer pump seals. Are you seeing any gain in main engine oil level? Something that would indicate fuel leakage past the injection pumps.
Here are the specs for the transfer pump.
The level was a little high… but it’s on a nasty incline blade downhill. Where could it leak at in injection pump? I replaced all seals and torqued them to spec that was in my manual? Could a bad gasket between accessory housing and injection pump cause this…? but remember on crank I have fuel drip from same drain line/hole. I think I’m going to put a small line on that hole cause it always just runs to the timing gear cover goes down
Thought about this some more. Did you run the new pump without the pressure relief valve? If so you may have blown a seal as the gear pump can produce considerable pressure especially when new. Not likely the gasket between the pump and accessory housing would be a problem and any leakage at the filter to pump connection would be external.
Well I changed filter and screens once again, replaced transfer pump with one without reliefs then didn’t know if that valve was faulty or not so I purged air using the fuel guage line as it is on the top of filter housing by knob. Then bled air through the injector lines cracked at injectors themselves. Once bled I cranked it popped off and then died, I proceeded to do air bleed numerous times with no success. On the pump I rebuilt I replaced all the seals that touched the main shaft, and the 2 orings on nose cone and both brass bearings. But it leaked the same through valve turn not sure if it did during cranking. My question also is… does the Normal operation of the valve ontop used for bleeding air and is it supposed to drain fuel through the housing like it is? Forgot to mention also is that I took the filter housing off completely where it’s just 3 holes. Turned the fuel on at tank and it poured out of one hole so I plugged hole with finger which I believe is after the transfer pump and I had no leak from accessory housing.
If you don't see an external open drain line coming from the bleed valve on the filter housing then it is internally ported using the accessory drive housing and drain.
So to ask your opinion should I inspect the 4n4864(original I rebuilt) and reinstall? And the only leak I should worry about on the accessories drive is if I’m cranking or hand pumping with valve shut correct? Is it normal for these things to still have air in lines after purging air from all injectors cranking and cracking each one again…. Done it about 5 times wash and repeat
Yes, re-install the original pump with the required pressure relief valve. Yes on your second question. It is not normal to have to do excessive bleeding of the injection system, seems you still have an air leak somewhere. There should not be any leakage from the drain line so if it's leaking either the vent valve is faulty or the transfer pump seals are leaking. Did you leak back check the new injection nozzles?
What are you getting for fuel pressure?
Sorry I just seen this reply and I wasn’t getting anything on last day, but that would be the pump without relief and trying to remember if guage even worked before, I can take a guage with me though I’m going back to work on it tomorrow usually 6-7 days apart is when I can go. I plugged the pump I rebuilt on outlet and put 4 psi regulated through it in input side, the nose one moved a bit but no leaks(filled with fuel). So other than changing back to rebuilt pump and priming the crap out of it in the morning… where could an internal leak from the scroll pump into case be at? I’m not sure if the level is a little high because of incline or fuel in oil, but I haven’t seen too many people saying where the injection pump could leak at? The only external leaks I have found was the accessory housing which ONE was ruled out as a vent for bleed valve but I’ll have to check for leak while cranking tomorrow
Are you confident that you kept the timing correct when you originally reinstalled the injection pump?
I only removed the the pump from accessory housing… couldn’t get much information about if it could possibly be off from that connection. I never removed cam or gears out of pump only the pumps from the housing and the rack. I seen were the warn area was and assembled based on that(ill include picture) but I didn’t know if it could only be off be 180° at that connection or more. NOT the best artist but in the picture I tried drawing what the injection pump cam end looked like to show how I figured out wear. But a local older man that used to work on these said that it could only go 2 ways on and should still be in time if I put it back right but I did turn the shaft on pump while installing pumps so I have no idea if this is true or not.
With that tang arrangement the pump housing can only be mounted one way so it's not likely a timing issue.
Have you tried running fuel from a clean container with rubber lines if possible. Even bypassing lift pump with an electric pump just to get it running. This eliminates suction leaks and fuel tank issues. The issues all started when you pointed machine down hill IIRC.
That was gonna be my next try to make a flat block off plate with 3 holes(one for fuel from electric pump and 2 for the bolts) and mount a fuel can with inline filter to side just to move the dang thing lol. I only get Fridays to work on it and it rained today so I couldn’t.
I think the can/electric pump idea is a good one. I’ve never been into one of those. Handful of 3406’s though and a person could screw the timing up on them if they didn’t know what they were up against first which is why I ask. Looking at that picture I’d say it only goes one way and that’s not the problem. Hoping bypassing the tank and lines nets you something. You’ve got a ton of time, effort and money into it at this point!
I’m just appreciative of everyone’s help, been dealing with it since August on and off, started as a stuck rack then bad injectors to a leaking transfer pump. I’ve learned more about a D7F than I’d like tbh lol. I’ve done a lot of cummins but not cat. She was a great dozer but it’s a farmer’s that uses it about every 3 years so I’ve heard the low sulfur fuel and the tank not being full which maybe caused the moisture from sweat was our biggest problems.
Well everyone I got good and bad news…. I put original pump back on I rebuilt and didn’t touch the air bleeder valve today, so far NO leaks from accessory housing but I cranked for an hour with the same amount of air coming out. I preformed the capsule leak test again and found #1 horrible combustion gas blowing out from top of injector and same but less on #6. I believe #3 is also but not as bad(just slow bubbling not blowing fuel out of hole) So did I possibly just get bad reman injectors? cause instead of bubble test like I did last time in the bucket I took them off at the injectors and this is my finds. Also I believe my fuel guage is inoperable cause it hasn’t moved even bleeding air at the guage.
well, that does not sound normal... usually when u crank the engine with the lines off, (almost every time after installation of a IP) the injectors wich are just valves with an atomizer tip , do not open.... its puzzling me how come that engine did not fired yet.... sure u have the right timming and the lines in the right place? have u tried the injectors out of engine injecting to atmosphere as i sugested some post ago? Its a DI engine must fire, does it fire with start fluid ? or brake cleaner? with brake cleaner it should fire right away... unless the compression its so f&%$# up it will not move anywhere... actually with brake cleaner and a skillfull fella u can actually move the thing to a better place...
No surprise that the fuel pressure gauge is not working after subjecting it to a transfer pump with no relief valve. You should be using new injector capsules and they should not leak back. Bleeding is not going to be a success until the capsules hold and do not leak back compression.