Hello all, I have been looking around this forum for a while now trying to learn as much as possible about the D7g and D8k Caterpillar crawlers. I signed up so I could ask some questions about them. I have begun looking for a crawler for use on my farm to clear some bush and do some dirt work to drain some land. My plan is to purchase a machine to do this work and once all projects are complete I will sell the machine. The timeline would be about five years to complete. I am considering either a d7g or d8k for the work. It needs to be a power shift bush equipped and have twin tilts on blade along with a winch. There are a lot of used ones out there, but like buying anything that old who knows what you will get. I have average mechanical ability but have no prior experience working on either machine therefore I am looking for one that has had recent overhauls done to all major components. I seen for sale from Highland Trucks and Cypress Construction from Cypress Manitoba a d7g with a rebuild engine, trans, torque, final drives, new undercarriage twin tilts and winch c/w new paint for 89000 Canadian. I also came across a 8k from the same outfit awhile ago that had a similar work order for around 85000 canadian. These type of units in that condition should work well for me and are less likely to cost any major dollars while I have it. That being said is either of these crawlers worth that kind of money or are these guys charging too much. Seems like a lot of money but if you buy something that has not had recent work am I asking for trouble. Also wondering if any one has any experience dealing with these folks at Cypress Manitoba. Maybe I would be better off buying a good used one for 35000 - 40000 and take my chances. Any thoughts or experience would be greatly appreciated. Tia Scott
Not sure about canadian prices but 80000 will buy a good 7G or a reasonable D8K in australia. My guess us you would be getting a good machine but may be a little expensive.
Around here a very good D7G brings about $40 to $45,000 US. A D8K or late model D8H will do comparable work and won't bring anything near 80,000
D7G is a great tractor, I own one and love it. I don't know how it converts to Canadian but 40-50k us dollars should buy you a real nice one, maybe less than that if you look around a little. I suggest finding someone knowledgeable on them and take them with you to look at them. If you find one you can run before you buy that would be a plus. Just being curious but why is twin tilts a necessity? Good luck in your search.
Both great tractors D7G or 8K . In my area they ask about the same price for either model . For cleaning up a farm first question I would ask is how often will the dozer need moved on a lowboy to the next job ? Farms today in my neck of the woods range from 2,500 to 10,000 acre's for the most part . Farmer might have 50 to 200 fields in 3 to 5 different counties . D7G can be moved on a standard 5 axil tractor / lowboy rig and will clear trees & move dirt as good as any tractor .Pretty quick & agile and stay on top better in soft ground . However if the farm ground to be worked is close and not so spread out where you don't have to move on a lowboy as often I might go with the 8K. It's a tough call . The D7 size machine works best for most of my jobs .
That would be top dollar for a D7G, even if it has had everything done to it. Should be around the $50000 range, although they have come up in recent years due to the money in grain farming, The 8K is too large, in my opinion to move around very much, and for what you are needing. The D7H is a lot nicer machine to run, and they are pretty close to that price range if you look around. If you are paying that much for a G, I would want some warranty on all the work that was done, and to know where it was done. If you sit in both of them, you won't buy the G, unless you are running antique equipment.
Firstly what is the thing with the need for twin tilt cylinders? 1 tilt cylinder is more than enough on something of this mark, anyhow back to your question on the D7-D8 dilema, well as you have said you are a freshman to this sport, the last thing you need is education through the wallet via the D8K, they work well and earn well only if you know how to run them, the D7 is a more learner style mount and is a more forgiving beast to own, the coins you are being quoted would get you a High Drive mount D7H - D7R by the look of the trade mags so you might need to expand your search some, the D7 anything is a very handy size with the ability to tackle a good sized muck shift without a load of fuel rising up in gunsmoke, but anyhow you already know what you want to have parked on the site with twin tilt cylinders as your mind is made up, a few pictures of the beast would be good. tctractors
I think this is the one he is looking at... under pic's click 'description' http://www.marketbook.ca/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10023365&LP=MAT
Gets pretty cold with no cab, you can bolt windows to the inside of the guarding to stop some of the crosswind and you will need a reversible fan to keep you warm. The engine guards tend to make them run a little warm when they have no screens, when you are walking and pushing bush. Days don't seem near as long with an enclosed cab, heat and a modern seat. I've run both, and you sure appreciate that cab when its 5 below and 40k wind.
I was wondering the reason for twin tilt as well. Not really necessary for this application IMO, and just another complication. As per a comment above, look at how you're going to move them around. It needs a whole different animal of a lowboy to move a D8 compared to a D7. Similar comment applies if you plan on driving it from one work area to another. The D8 will tear the undercarriage up PDQ, the D7 not so much because it's lighter on its feet. TBH I wouldn't want to walk either model more than a short distance, but then again it wouldn't be my machine.
Yair . . . I had always assumed the two cylinders worked collectively for altering the pitch of the blade for digging or drifting and thought there would be a valve/control to alter to cyclic operation for tilt . . . if that is not the case why are two cylinders fitted? Cheers.
When I was in the Falklands in the early 80's, all the D6D's with angle blades had the twin tilts. They worked well, one ram pushed the other pulled. They did not alter the pitch of the blade. I never gave why much thought, but they where better balanced when angling the blade (manually).
The general shape of the D7 is the look of something that has copped the 5 gallon re-build, the track groups are a bit lacking as I would have thought the pads would be like new and the chains would be wet links, instead the pads are missing the best bit and the chains are just sealed V Track items, its obviouse that the tractor has been used by the wear in the gear change turret (It needs adjustment) but if the package is ticking every box all that needs to be sorted is the discount off the asking price, I am no expert on the price of equpment outside of Europe but this dealer must have a brother called Walt Disney? tctractors. p.s. twin tilt cylinders = double trouble
If both of the tilt cylinders operated in the same direction they would be handy for pushing material up steep slopes. Tilting them forward would help unload the blade when pushing material, especially sticky black dirt. I have been on slopes that sometimes half the material I pushed up came back down stuck to the blade. Didn't Komotsu offer the twin tilt on their dozers years ago ?
Twin tilt is an attachment (extra) on pretty much any Cat dozer from D6 upwards. Not required for most work but extremely useful if you are on the type of work that requires it. As Scrub pointed out twin tilt lets you change the blade pitch to enable you to carry large loads for long distance and to spread them at the end of the push - coal mine overburden slot dozing and land reclamation work are 2 uses that immediately spring to mind. I cannot imagine for a moment that our OP is planning on getting as technical as that with his dozing, ergo - no need for twin tilt.
Hi All, Thanks for the replies the information it is very helpful. I was looking for tilt to do ditching and some earthmoving and thought twin tilts would be good to have. Sounds like a single tilt would be all that is necessary. Thanks for the insight on this as I am new to this and appreciate any comments and experience. I would consider a D7h for the exact fact that it has a cab and most of the work would be in the fall/early winter. Hey Shaunw do you know of anything in sask that is or could be available that is in good shape. There is a 7g coming up at a richie bros sale in Tisdale in July that I'll go look at which is only 45 miles from me. A d7g or h would be enough machine but we will be clearing some land with some bigger trees and the 300hp of the 8k would be nice to handle the larger wood and also to more effectively move dirt. The farthest I have to move it would be within a 3 mile radius so I would just walk it around. (When walking it should a guy travel in reverse to help reduce wear to certain undercarriage components?) I did not think about how much quicker the undercarriage would wear on an 8k so thanks for that comment. I talked to a old cat skinner and he gave me the following advise. "When it comes to running down bush go with the 8k over the 7g for the simple fact that with the 8 you go where you want to go, not where you think you can go." I rented a d7f to clear 80 acres of bush about ten years ago and quite often I found myself having trouble with enough machine to do what I wanted. ie pushing the trees far enough to get the windrows farther apart to allow for more room to break the ground between windrows. I had to get a guy in with an 8 to move some of the big wood at the end of the windrows to allow for 60 feet of room for us to get our harrows between the end of the windrows and the neighbours fence. (We use harrows to rake up roots once the ground is broke). My main concern is to find a machine that is in good condition and not end up with one that will cost me a fortune in repairs. I full expect to pull wrenches on it and to have to spend some money on it which I don't mind, I just don't want to end up with major work orders to the engine and power train which is why I am looking for one where all of these components have recently been done. I also want a good undercarriage because the last thing I want is a track coming off while tramping bush. Any other info or comments are very much encouraged. Thanks Scott
Tracking a machine in reverse to "reduce undercarriage wear" is an old wives tale, the bushes in the chains will be trying to rotate in the sprocket teeth - in forward travel they will not. Travel in forward but keep the speed down.
If you get the D8H/K or a D9G/H you need to try to do as much as you can going forward for 3 good reasons, firstly the final drive oil pumps only pump oil going forward, so no oil feed makes the bearings go crinkle, secondly the track is built to give the best performance on the forward direction, on the old CAT 60's (Best-Holt) the grouser was at the back of the plate but the chain was still fitted as of today, they (CAT) found that the position of the grouser held muck effecting track grip and ride, so this item was moved to the front of the plate so drive forward is best it also deduced the dust fly issue, the last reason is fairly basic as the best view of the road is forward without your body in some twist up motion to peer out of the little back window and see only half of what you need. tctractors
This is some of the trees I've pushed with my D7H A neighbor bought a D8 and he can definitely push a lot, but everything he has fixed on it usually costs about 30 percent more than the stuff for a D7H, I believe the D7H weighs about 10,000 lbs more than a D7G, mine with the winch and without rake on weighs about 65,000 lbs, so not too much it can't push over. Most tree rows I push up have to leave at least 100 feet for the sprayer to go around, I just split the pile and don't try and push it all at once. My brother has run 8 and 9s and it doesn't matter how big you go, its' never big enough to push as much as you want. You can push almost twice as much up at a time if you have a rake blade or a pin on rake compared to just a straight blade due to the amount of dirt you can roll out. At least that is what I have found. Haven't really been looking around much for D7s but I know when we were looking, there is not an over abundance of D7Hs, just because they are kind of the ideal size for what we are doing, I think the one I have is probably worth more now than when I bought it, but I have put a fair amount in to it. Brandt had one, that looked pretty tuff, they listed it for $75000, and sold it in a week. You can find 10 D6s for every D7 at Richie, and I would think a high track D6 would be comparable in size to a D7G, but most I have talked to say a d6 is to small for big wood. Sorry wrong picture, this is the right one. Had to resize
OK . In that case I would go with the D8K .
Hey Shaunw thats a nice lookin crawler and an impressive brush rake! I suppose you are not interested in selling it eh? LOL. I was not aware that the 7h had more hp and weighed 10,000 lbs more than the g. I do like the idea of the high track over the standard track due to the use of a planetary over a final drive. I would think there would be less trouble with the planetary. Seems every 8k or 7g dozer I have come across that has had a recent engine job, they soon have tranny, torque and final drive issues if they were not already done. Would I be correct in assuming if one of these crawlers had an engine overhaul but no power train work that I could expect to have tranny torque or final drive issues? What are the major things to look for on a 7h? I read somewhere you can do a stall test to check the trans, torque and brakes. How do you perform this test and what do you look for to determine proper function. When visually inspecting an undercarriage are there any general rules of thumb for determining wear percentage or should I contact cat dealer for those specs? Any and all info appreciated! Thanks
Thanks guys for the info on the undercarriage as well as speed and direction of travel. Most likely elementary info to all on this forum but it is very insightful to me. Thanks again Scott
I would assume most of the G's and K's have had engine jobs by now because the early ones would be almost 40 years old. Unless you can find one that someone just used for going to church on Sunday, all will of them will have had the undercarriage done at least once. According to my Cat pamphlet on the d7H, it takes a lot less hours to do work on the tranny, torque, and the planetarys compared to the d7g. As for tests for the trans, torque and brakes I think the experts like Nige and others would be better guys to ask than me. If you want some rough specs on the crawlers you are looking for, just go to richiewiki it will have a better comparison of engine, weight ect. If most of the work you are doing is going to be clearing trees, I would recommend getting one with an angle blade, they are alot heavier that the others and are 14' instead of 12'. On the D7h the angle blades all come with twin tilts, the SU blade comes with only one. You can order pin on rakes from down in the states for around $5000 US delivered to ND, you just have to pick it up, if you buy one up here they are around $10,000. I wouldn't push without it, now I have had one, not sure what you plan on using the winch for, but I have one and have only used it once, would prefer a ripper for pulling stumps out, but haven't come up with the $20000 to switch it out. I would think you should have a good idea of how much wear on the undercarriage just by visual, try and look at one with new undercarriage for reference, one thing to watch out for is new segments and wore tracks, lots of guys will switch out the segments to squeeze out a few more hours out of old chains, because it is the easiest thing to change, but won't last long. Sorry for being so long winded, but the more info you can gather the better.
https://www.rbauction.qc.ca/blog/equipment-inspection-tips-crawler-tractors , just say this has some good tips on undercarriage inspection.
Undercarriage often seems to be a black art ........ well it's not. It's all science and measurement. if you want a good undercarriage guide PM me and I'll happily fire you a copy.
Talking about wear on tractor undercarriage in reverse .......... maybe this will help.
There are a few Cat D7H for sale in western Canada.Spence Equipment in North Battleford ,Some in Edmonton,Calgary Kijiji,and you could check Brandt Equipment for used Crawlers.
Hi All, Yes I have noticed there are a few d7h in western canada. There is one at Arrow-west equipment in alberta that they are asking 125,000 for.(Found out the price through another website) This crawler is spec'd exactly how we would require it but I seems like a lot of money for this machine but it has had recent tranny and torque work so maybe it is worth it? Here is the link D7H I also found a D8k in Alberta as well that has had some work orders on major components and was wondering what it would be worth? Here is the link for it http://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-equipment/edmonton-area/1977-cat-d8k-orops-angle-dozer-scraper-hyds-q-c-for-ripper/578595383?enableSearch What is a cross shaft? How much is a tilt attachment worth to add to this 8k? What would it cost to do the final drives on an D8k? As this would be the only major work order left to do on this machine. I could do some of the work myself but would require a experienced mechanic to handle things once opened up. Thanks again everyone for your feedback. Scott
Be a little careful with arrow west they have some good stuff but there is some junk too. Spence lots of times does minimal work to the machine to sell it as well. A good 7g is bringing 40-50 at Ritchie's with the exception of the April sale. A "4,000" hour machine(yea right) sold for 65,000 it wasn't even in that nice of shape. I looked it over just out of curiosity when I was there and it most definitely had more the 4,000 hours on it. If I were you I would look for a d6r/h at Ritchie's. there's some decent deals going through yet. Not every sale but definitely some. You could try Alex brown in Tisdale as well he is always shopping and may have so something for you. I've taken out a fair bit of bush with my old 7e. If you're working before the frost sets in the 7 should do the work with no trouble. If you're looking at the newer high tracks you can almost compare a 6h/r to a 7g and a 7h/r to a 8k. It's not quite even but its closer then some think. I don't have Hyd tilt on my 7 and am constantly wishing I had twin tilts. If you have lots of dirt to move further the a couple hundred feet a cat is not the most economical solution to do so. A scraper fits the bill much nicer. For longer distance and larger volumes a hoe and rock truck is a nice combination and then finish the grade with the cat afterwards.
get to know a good contractor near you who will do all your work. Hire him. you get manpower with knowledge and he fixes the iron. you get no headaches and the work gets done quickly to your satisfaction. The whole cost should be a straight deduction. this yellow iron thing will never be a money maker on any farm, but it sure will be a money taker.
I would be careful shopping for equipment with recent work. Sometimes it is fine, however it always scares me. It may have been opened it up and the owner found more problems than they wanted to fix, or it's just patchwork to get it to work long enough to let it find a new owner. Bright new paint jobs are also in the same category, makes me wonder what they are trying to hide. A solid piece that is out working would be a safer bet than one with recent work done to it to me. With some good judgment it is not out of the question to buy one, get your work done, then sell it, and end up with little to no money in the work you have done. Just my 2 cents, good luck in your search.
I agree,I like to see them settled in abit after major surgery!
We call those "Five gallon overhauls", or less for smaller equipment!
A "Du Pont overhaul" is a "one size fits all" description however much paint they use ......