Morning. Started lurking on this forum and I have got to say you guys have a wealth of information. I’m wondering if anyone has any experience with a low serial number D8H engine getting stuck from sitting. (Ran when parked, sat for about 9 years) Also any ideas where to find parts in the great white north? I’ve found considerably better prices on parts in the States but no luck on places in Alberta. Thanks
how old exactly is that 8? have had some exp years ago getting one going after it sat and locked up what i did then worked
Actually just got the serial number ran and found out it’s a 1964 model. Old brute with an open stack unfortunately. Interesting thing is the pony motor has been removed and converted to a 12v starter. And thanks for the reply.
wow it was 1967 that i did the one i mentioned.it must have been a 59 or 60 as it still had the pony` it would`nt run either. i spent 6 days working on that thing on a bet from the owner that i could not get it running was a lot of work but it did run. had to remove both intake and exhaust manifolds and valve covers , i then blew out as many holes as i could get air into with a 200 cfm compressor then soaked it down through all the it&ex valve holes with a mix of kerosene&10wt motor oil. then went to work on getting the pony motor started and running good enough to crank it. there is more to this story but not tonight
Post it up when you feel like it. It’s great to hear stories of wrestling old iron back from the dead. Kinda wish it still had the pony motor. The heat and vibration would probably help quite a bit.
I have one of those (D8 46A). did I understand that the exhaust was uncovered? if it was, you are in for a lot of work. if rain got in , you will have to remove the turbo and then the exhaust manifold and see where the water got into. I usually get whatever I need from Finning or Union Tractor. what part of alberta are you in?
Well that sucks. Kinda figured I was in for a bit of wrenching. I’ve talked to finning and Union. Was just seeing if there were any other suppliers around. I’m up near high prairie.
I'm between falher and Rycroft. is yours a 36A or a 46A ? my 46A is a 1965 vintage with pup engine start. are you sure its a 12 volt and not 24? you may have to read the plate on the starter to find out. I think the pup engines were all on the low horse H and electric optional on the high-horse.
I think if you've had water down an uncovered chimney you're in for a bit more than just the removal of turbo and exhaust manifolds. I can see the heads having to come off as a minimum TBH. If you have the capacity to do it why not bite the bullet now. Snatch the engine complete and get it into a shed/shop where you can reduce it to its component parts..? Because you might well end up doing that anyway if you start removing parts piecemeal from the engine with it installed in the tractor, and so end up doing a load of hard work when it could have been done a lot easier.
Hey Nige I’m thinking it’s going to be an interesting project. Gotta try something first to hopefully free it up. This machine used to have a put motor but has been converted to electric. The starter clearly says 12 volt on it. I looked because I thought it was strange as well. By northern Alberta standards that makes us practically neighbours 56 46A with the power shift.
The argument for getting it running first is to know if the transmission etc works. If you know the history personally, or from somebody you trust, there's still the possibility of what happened in the meantime. If "it ran when parked" is the story from the seller, then I'd be especially suspicious of putting any money into it before it runs and operates. Before even trying to break it loose, drain the antifreeze and see what's there, then loosen the engine oil drain plug enough to get several drops to see if it's oil, water, or antifreeze. Then figure out the next step.
http://www.kingofobsolete.ca/KING'S_BAR_STARTER_WEBPAGE.html Make a bar starter. See if you can't bar it over to free it up. Just a suggestion as i have never tried this method But given certain circumstances, I would give it a whirl. At least this would get the rotating assembly free again.
Frozen 36-46A D342 engines: 1st loosen oil drain plug and drain out anti-freeze coolant-water. 2nd remove injector nozzles and pour ATF WD-40 into each cylinder and let sit for a couple days. 3rd loosen exhaust manifold nuts so manifold has a gap between cyl head and manifold flange. THEN try to rotate the engine manually by hand . You can remove the cover located on top of the bellhousing (4ea 3/8" capscrews) and timing pointer; use a bar to engage the starter-flywheel teeth. OR remove the starter and use a bar (or Cat turning tool-make from starter nose) to manually 'try' to turn the engine. Leave injector nozzles out, install starter motor and try spinning over the engine. Good luck
I’d try the bar starter method but I don’t have access to a starter I can mangle. So what I’m gonna try is tightening the poop out of the fan belt then strapping a bar to the fan blades. I can get her to rock about a 1/4 inch so I think if I can do that a thousand times it should break free
You'll also probably have arm muscles like Garth by the time you're done. Best of luck, but as Stan said above, get some lube down into the cylinders in advance to get things well soaked and give yourself the best chance.
I’ve poured a bunch of smoo down the exhaust. Logic being that if that’s where water has gotten in the oil should get in there too. Should charge a membership fee to get people to come out and try. People pay to go gym and lift heavy things
Those same people are probably like Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies - not much up top but good at lifting heavy weights.
You probably wont free it up using the fan pull the starter and use a bar and pull the injectors and pour some lube down the openings
If its been sitting for 9 years and water has got in I highly doubt that you would free it up. As Nige said I would wip the heads of and have a look and make an assessment whether to carry on. Whatever you do it's going to be a fairly big job so tool up and good luck. Bill
first pull the dip stick and see if the oil level is in normal range and then crack the drain plug and see how water comes out, and then you will know how much water got in. then you will know how much work you getting into
Not seeing water in the oil. It’ll either be home or sold by Tuesday (shipping pending) Did the old power shifts have a tendency to lock up or fail by sitting? If I decide to work on it I’m leaning towards it being a labor of love as opposed to profit.
at one time mine sat for a few years but the exhaust was covered and once I got the pup engine running it fired up with no problems. if it has the torque divider like mine, it should be ok and there is not much to fail in the powershift unless a valve sticks( not likely ) if it was working ok when parked it should be good. if the undercarriage is in reasonable condition its worth spending some time and money on. also, how are the final drives? the good thing is that there were a lot of them made and you can still get parts for them. in my opinion they are a good old machine. if you get it loose, you will need to check the turbo for seizure and water damage. it likely has the big old rotomaster unless someone has changed it .
Many a man has done for love … much to his ultimate d… delight or dismay ?
I’m going with “what could go wrong” mostly everything hahaha
You have probably created a hydraulic lock condition by doing this. Get the injectors out, vacuum the cylinders out with a suck bucket or any other vacuum device available. I use an air powered chip vac and a piece of air brake nylon tube that will fit through the injector bore into the cylinder (same as sucking fuel and oil out of a 3406E cylinder.) Then do what you can to turn the engine. Don't use the fan... Not going to work.
If you have a inspection camera, pulling the injectors and taking a peek inside will give you an idea which cylinders are stuck. King of Obsolete swears by carburetor cleaner for soaking stuck pistons. Others have freed their motors up by soaking for a few days in kerosene/diesel, then lighting it on fire. You will get the best results of any procedure by drying the piston and cyilinder of water and cleaning as much surface rust out as possible before soaking. (On that thought, I wonder how electrolysis or evaporust would work for cleaning a cyilinder?...) One other thing to consider with water flooding is you will undoubtedly be dealing with stuck valves as well, so I strongly recommend that you pull the head.
I’m leaning towards pulling the heads. Big issue is right now it’s parked a long ways from home so I’m just doing minor things until I can get it moved. I don’t want to dismantle it and lose pieces before it’s hauled. Was being hopeful I could get it fired up and move it to a better spot for pickup. Pulled the forward valve cover and no visible rust there so it might not be as bad as it seems, it could be so so much worse (woohoo insert credit card to continue playing lmao)
pull the injectors and see if they have any rust on them then you know that cyl has some water damage
Pulling a dead dozer will be fairly simple. Disconnect the blade,(Those D8's will need the blade taken off for transport anyway.) Tie both steering levers back and it can be pulled around by a large tractor or another bulldozer.
do you have a service manual and parts book for this machine? if not, pm me and I can provide you with scanned pages of mine or if you're interested pm me your phone# and I can call you
That would be awesome 56. Once I get it home I’ll definitely take you up on the offer for scans from the manual. Found a fair amount of books for the later serial numbers but nada for the older ones. Don’t know what the rules are for phone numbers on this forum but I’ve got it advertised on Kijiji ($12,000 but open to any offer lol)
If it is difficult to move, hook to the top of the tracks back a ways from the end you are pulling and you will effectively double your pull. I have been around enough of these stuck machines to tell you that you are probably going to be disappointed when you discover what else you destroyed by forcing it over. My guess is that the slight movement you are finding is simply taking up slack in the front gear assembly. Pull the heads, often only one cylinder that happened to have the closest open valve will be stuck and rusted bad. Not sure about that model but often you can unbolt the rod and bring the stuck sleeve and piston out as a unit.
I've been through a few D8H engines. No mufflers on the units means the water has a straight track down the pipe, into the manifold and down which ever exhaust valve happens to be open. If the water has been down there a long time you would have found water in the bottom of the oil pan. But you never know for sure until you pull the plug. Your saving grace is that those pistons are the size of coffee cans and they have a big dish in the middle of the piston that will hold more than a pint of water. Forget about pulling an injector and looking down the hole. These engines are pre-cup motors and use button injectors. You also don't have to hold the steering clutch handles if you are going to tow the machine. The clutches are hydraulically operated as is the transmission. The machine will freewheel by itself. Just make sure the park brake linkage isn't stuck on. It is a ratchet mechanism that holds the right side brake on. The big resistance to moving will be how deep the tracks have settled into the ground and how much rust has accumulated in the tracks and rollers. I don't know about transport laws in Canada but we moved D8s with the blades on all the time in Washington State. It just took an over width permit and pilot cars. I don't see them much anymore but there used to be hauling companies that had trucks with the big winches mounted behind the cab. I've seen a few dead machines winched onto the low boy trailers back when D8Hs were pretty common. Good Luck and keep us informed!