Doing a trans service this morning on one of my K's and I found these in the transmission magnet/screen. I've seen a lot of crud in the screens in my days but I've never seen pieces shaped like this and such a number of them. The cat still functions perfectly normal and there was very little small filings along with these chunks. Just curious if anyone has see anything like them and where they could be from? My thoughts is steering clutches but I've been wrong before. Any ideas? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov1ln1fc30betm1/Photo 2013-07-23 10 45 34 AM.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rov19pxyf2z2ye/Photo 2013-07-23 10 45 51 AM.jpg
Looks like you have a bearing cage that has come apart with the bearing seperators and piece of the cage. Rollers are probably still in there but are now not properly supporting it's shaft.....and a forcast/warning of bad things to come. Without doing any research I'm thinking this would be a heavy duty bearing, maybe bevel gear pinion???
So what your saying magnet is instead of putting new oil back in I might as well pull the trans out? Haha It looks like the size of the bearing on the back of the trans shaft
What ever bearing it is, dismantle now or it will probably do it for you.
Already got the 3/4 drive impact out, rattling canopy bolts out. Having a sandwich. Pulling the transmission in the bush. I've always been a "spend alittle now, to save a lot down the road" kinda guy. I know by continuing to operate it will only explode into a million pieces.... Already drained the oil anyways, no sense dumping a grand worth of oil in it only to drain it again next week and do it all over again plus changing many more trans parts and a possible bevel gear
Not for the faith at heart owning old iron and keeping it out of the museums lol
Transfer gear bearings
Just crusing the manual on the H model it looks more like either an input or output shaft bearing as you suspect.
Just an update for you Magnet. Thanks for your input on this. Before I put my thread up here I thought it was steering clutches pieces at first. Silly thinking I was going keep it working till this job was complete. Anyways here a few pictures for you. Nailed it on the diagnosis! https://www.dropbox.com/s/wrmt4sg1ax8kqm7/Photo 2013-07-24 2 51 31 PM.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9jqi37d9hrudmk/Photo 2013-07-24 2 52 19 PM.jpg
No real harm I guess, very lucky you checked it
Ya DPete darn lucky I caught it. It happened to be too wet and thought my trans oil change was coming up soon anyways. So that's how I caught it. Couldnt imagine what carnage would occur if those rollers fell out an landed In the pinion and bevel gear... Yikes! Could just change the bearing through the back. But I think a guy would be foolish not to rip it down since its out and see if anything else is ready to come apart in there
Yup, nice save, the God's were looking out for you on that one. Thanks for the pictures.
You mean things wear out?? LOL
Got the trans all apart an everything looks pretty good. No pitting on gears and needle bearings on planetary shaft look good. Transfer case gear has alittle slop on the spline of the pinion gear but I have yet to take apart a d8 trans mission that doesn't. Only thing I need to replace is the bearing that went out and the input shaft... It's worn where that bearing rides. Funny they never designed it with a race you can change there or a sleeve of some sort. I am an auction sale junky so I've got a good shaft out of one of my parts cats I dismantled this past winter. Has anyone taken an input shaft to a machine shop and got that end sleeved before? I have had no luck in the past building stuff like that up and lathing it down.. Never get it hard enough.
I guess as long as you don't plan on ever running a winch on the Said machine you could get machined down and sleeved. A the spline would have to lathed down too to get a sleeve on
They can be built up with hard chrome, then reground; there was a cat reuseability guide about doing it, came out in the 80s.
My suggestion would be to try to find a machine shop to build up the shaft using the metal spraying process then machine back to original size. Chrome might be too hard and you'd have a devil of a job grinding it back to finished size.
Hard chrome is fine for journal type bearings but I have found it to be to thin and brittle for roller bearings and leads to spalling. Sleeve (with reasonably thick wall) would be nice but I would not be anxious to give up any meat from the splines.
As mentioned above by Merv there is a reusability guide giving the procedure for recovering a shaft damaged like yours. Guess what, I have a copy .......... if you want it please drop me a PM with an e-mail address and I'l fire it off to you.
Thanks for the offer, I'd like to get a copy...and any feedback on how successful was the repair. Will send a PM with email address.
OM; a lot if that and other parts reclaimations; ie clutch piston housings being metalsprayed etc where done down here in the 80s by the dealer, we had all the cat reusability guides, and theres a lot just for ps trans. We had to our pacific peso only bought 50c USD That kind of shaft damage was common on winch tractors. But that's first one I saw from a non winch machine, Originally expected bits to be from the upper transfer gear roller brgs as I saw a lot of those in rebuilds, that and sometimes pinion brgs.
Nige, thanks for the publication, interesting disclaimer at the beginning where bearing contact is direct. That's the sort of experience I found.
Hi Merv, thanks for the info. Got any feedback on how succesful those shaft build up repairs were, particularly with heavy direct bearing contact.
Spraying has come a long way. With arc spraying you can put what ever metal you want on without having to heat up the job to the stage where you lose the temper. A place I use does the bearing surfaces on haul track axles on a daily basis and its completely successful. Where it won't work is applications where the bearing rollers run directly on the new surface. I restore old stationary engines for spare time fun and I get worn out piston sprayed up with aluminium bronze which has been successful.
Thanks RayF, That was my conclusion also where there is high unit loading from direct rollers. Poor design to even attempt such loading without some sort of race. Interesting comment on spraying pistons. Is that good for recovering worn ring lands as well or just restoring diameter?.
Was for restoring the diameter where the pistons were running when engaging and disengaging both housings and pistons. These were metalsprayed. Most of this was following cat reusability guides. The pump drive gears that bolted to the impeller were also often hard chromed where the seal rings ran was another common repair. Was mainly involved in rebuilds in 80s for the dealer and all this machining work was done by a large contracting firm called Stevensons who had a huge cat fleet [for NZ anyway] working in a mine called 'kopuku' [is a few threads about it in scrapers] and a extensive machine shop. Shaft repairs were all ok afaik OM; but I obviously lost contact with the machines after the rebuild, but never heard of any comebacks. Know those output shaft repairs were ground well undersize so they had a decent thickness of chrome. Winch applications would be worst for this wear as esp on D6s and hyster winchs as the winch end on its pto shaft is only supported by a single row ball bearing and brg that failed on this trans has to carry more load than normally.
No have not used it for ring grooves. I normally skim the bore till it just cleans up then spray up piston to suit. I skim the ring grooves to clean up then make new rings to suit the new groove and bore diameter. Its often a lot less work than boring out and putting in a sleeve especially on the bigger engines.