we have a D8r was rented out got a call for a strange noise and excessive smoke , found exhaust adapter leaking and machine was indeed smoking a lot while trying to push , seemed to have plenty of power , was close to home so lowboy"d it back to the shop , after running with outer filter and inner filter replaced stile smoky, also noticed it was starting to ,melt the dust ejectors guts and when put under load blow soot out air cleaner , so I replaced exhaust adapter between turbo and other adapter that goes to muffler , muffler and stack new few months back - cat part, I pulled the intake boots off and pulled pipe plug on after cooler and blew it out - didn't notice any carbon in charge piping , I replaced all injection nozzles with cat remans , I pulled fuel ratio valve and replaced diaphragm , springs, o rings and rods , changed the little oil screen in there as well , install new air filters , run machine stile smokes not as bad , stile have black smoke pushing out air cleaner with I load her up , pulled boot from pre-cleaner to air cleaner assembly , dust ejector is melting turned my outer filter sooty in 10 min of run , so I blew filter out and reinstalled and left boot off to pre-cleaner so just sucking air right to filters , noticeable less smoke I can push material til mechine stops or spins tracks and have just a slight haze of smoke , is this acceptable ? we barely run this machine most of the time its rented out , the customer started that he fired it up after siting and it was noisy and smoky , I noticed they also replaced the tubbing from the exhaust to the pre-cleaner dust ejector , so I obviously I have to replace the dust ejector must be allowing hot exhaust gases back into it self
It kind of sounds like the muffler could be partially plugged up. I've seen on other machines where a baffle in the muffler would break and fall over the inlet pipe. We found the problem by pulling the muffler and shaking it around real hard and heard the rattle.
Try looking at the valve adjustment as you might have a knackered camshaft?
Check to see if you have the right stack. in the bottom there should be a venturi that makes the dust ejection system work. I have seen where the stack has been damaged and it has been shortened and the venturi system has been cut out or the pipe has been made to fit upside down Mark
Agree with Mark. Also consider the possibility that the venturi in the exhaust stack has corroded so much that it has fallen apart. That will also cause hot exhaust gas to blow back through the dust ejection system into the air filter and melt everything. Flip the rain cap on the top of the exhaust stack and shine a flashlight down the stack, see what the venturi looks like.
the stack and muffler are a couple months old , cat oem parts , I got the new dirt ejector in Friday , I pulled stack and verified stack and venturi is clear have tubed pulled off and shine flashlight threw it was clear , left tube to dirt ejector off , Iam getting exhaust out of where tube connects to muffler/stack ,pretty straight forward system , the stack pipe has indentations 3 off them toward the bottom , Im pretty sure the old stack was the same , she was pretty rotten when I replaced it
As the Chinaman would say - Sum Ting Wong The vaccum is created in the dust ejector system by the open end of the venturi pipe being just below the three dimples in the tube. The physics behind it is that the exhaust gas is compressed as it passes through the dimples. When it is allowed to expand again it creates a drop in pressure. That drop in pressure is right where the opening of the suction tube for the dust ejector is located and creates the suction in the tube. The illustration below (from a different machine, but the physics remains the same) shows it, not very clear but it's the best I oculd find at short notice. You can see the end of the suction tube (circled) down below the dimples.
that's what I got the dimples or indentions right below that is my venturi tube of suction tube , ill double check to make sure that tube is centered between those dimples , when I ordered the new exhaust my dealer called me and back and said the part number had been updated , but everything looked the same when I received it
Looks pretty darn center to me .
The centre one of your three photos. Do the dimples really come as close together as they appear in the photo..? They look like they are almost touching. The distance between the dimples should be about the same diameter as the O/D of the suction tube. Another question. In your 3rd photo the flange for the suction tube appears to be part of the muffler outlet tube. Are the dimples in the exhaust ejector tube that clamps on to the muffler.? If so try loosening the clamp and moving the exhaust ejector up or down a bit on the muffler to see whether there is a sweet spot somewhere that gives you the correct suction.
Yes they are that close , not much clearance between them , but there is some , I thought it was awful tight when I was installing the stack , I’ll try and move stack up I’ve got it pushed down is far as it will go , just seems like the center of that stack should be opened more , original parts usually seem to be right on the money
My rule of thumb is that the gap between the inside of the dimples should be approximately equal to the outside diameter of the suction tube, give or take. I cannot believe that the dimples are supposed to be as close together as that, but then again I've never had the genuine parts for a D8R in my hand before so I cannot say with any certainty one way or the other. It just doesn't look right.
Well I tried moving it up and down, stile the same result, blowing exhaust blowing out ejector section hole , looks like tomorrow I’ll modify those dimples a little , it’s a simple system , shouldn’t be this much messing around , haha yeah right , just turned into one of those jobs
Somewhere in the ejector plumbing there should be a check valve with a stainless flapper that prevents back flow from the stack when the rpm drops and comes back up, such as reversing the tractor. But I think you have a stack problem too.
Yeah dust ejector is new , replaced it the old melted apart , there’s a stainless flapper valve in there , but I think your right as well , believe the dimples are too tight In the stack to establish good Venturi effect
This a picture from bottom of stack , or as it’s called dust ejector on sis , those dimples are 18 1/2 long in that pipe , don’t know if I’ll be able to modify them , don’t wanna trash a $330 pipe from cat
I understand what you're saying and here's what I suggest. Take that photo above to the Cat dealer where you bought the ejector, make sure you have the Part Number (7C-2991.?) of the ejector to hand. Ask the Parts guys to have their Technical Communicator contact Cat via the DSN system to have the dimensions of the ejector checked against the measurements given on the engineering print for the same Part Number. That would settle the question once and for all whether the dimples are correct or not, but in my opinion they are far too close together and are effectively plugging up the flow of exhaust gas up the chimney. As a work-around for now you could install a blanking plate over the 2-bolt flange where the hose from the air cleaner connects to the exhaust ejector. All that will do is result in the air cleaners needing servicing at slightly shorter intervals than normal because the larger dust particles will not be getting sucked up the exhaust stack like they normally would.
My experience in D8R's is fairly simple.......If they start smoking,farting or fluttering even a little bit,it's doom for the cam. I think it would be prudent to measure up the valve clearance whilst you are under the bonnet before it blows the engine to bits. I've had this twice.Each time I thought it was muffler,or fuel injection issues and each time I was wrong. Thankfully,I had the good sense to take advice from my fitter chap,so no massive harm done. I think your D8 engine will be seeing daylight soon. Sorry.
Excellent first-hand experience Nicky. Worth its weight in gold. It might also be worth the OP posting the tractor Serial Number, just so everyone knows which iteration of the D8R we're actually dealing with. Nicky, a question for you. What change interval do/did you use on the engine oil & filter on your 8R's. I'm not sure if you still have any.
I’m curious to that as well , also what kinda of hours we’re you seeing cam failures at? We are running 250 hours on the oil , filter , and outer airs
Well was on my way back from a service call this am , remembered about another company we do work with and they have a D8R ! So I stopped over there and looked down he’s stack , wide open in the middle can see the Venturi tube clear as day , also the dimples are about quarter of the size of what’s on our stack !i knew my wasn’t right but wow ! No wonder I have so much back pressure
Take it back and demand a (correct) replacement ........ Good result, at least now you know where it appears as though the problem lies.
Nige and Mobile tech....... I religiously changed oil around 250 hours. Tractor had 36000 hours when I bought it and over 39000 when I sold it. I never spotted the cam issue at all.I'd noticed a 'slight flutter'at full throttle and had asked Tony the fitter to take a look at it when he got chance. He didn't even bother to fire the machine up when he saw it.He just pulled the rocker covers off and measured the lash on the valves. I couldn't believe it when he said the cam was shot. Well,I know that I'm no fitter,so knew he was right. He was. Fortunately,I brought it home immediately and pulled it to bits. If I'd of carried on,it would have been a disaster.,as it was,it was a relitevly simple repair for a man of his ability.
I should add that the cam followers and camshaft weren't the culprits,they were the victims of a worn block where the follower clips sit. To do the job right,the little cam follower bore holes need sorting first before replacing clips,followers and cam.
Another question for Mobile-tech. Do you pull oil samples from the engine.? If not I suggest that you start doing so and trend the soot numbers as you go forward. Provided you are pretty religious doing your oil changes on time if there is a spike in soot at any time you ought to be able to spot it.
I do maintain regular service intervals , but sometimes my operators can’t read the stickers in the cab , the hours on the filters , or where I write the hours inside engine compartment .... operators , yes we’ve been absent on our regular oil sampling gonna get in a better regiment of sampling to avoid major problems
That’s more like it , that other stack had to be a manufacturing defect , no other explanation for it
Did you tell them they owed you a dust ejector because the restricted pipe caused exhaust to back flow and melt the cones?
My product support guy comes tomorrow - hopefully , I’m gonna lay it on about the dust ejector , lost time , and general pain in a$& of whole deal , we buy cat oem parts to avoid such situations , I understand problems occur , I’m more than reasonable about that , it’s just the poor attitude and lack respect and understanding that gets me , you see it more and more , no one takes pride in workmanship or gives a darn, drives me nuts , I take pride in everything I do , it’s a lost art now a days
I guess I should have caught that faulty stack pipe , the old one had disintegrated and fell off the machine as had the most of the muffler I simply installed new muffler and piping and didn’t give it a second thought stupid new
How’s the machine running now.?
Runs good , the odd exhaust note is gone , pre cleaner is functioning as it should , only pushed some 3 inch recycle up our pile at work , runs strong
Make sure that you nail Cat via the dealer for all the collateral damage caused by the defective exhaust ejector.
Good Luck on that. Most all of their paper work includes the legal provision "not responsible for incidental damages." Talk nice and be reasonable and you only need to hint at repercussions. Most dealers will pick up on it quick and try to work with you. Good Luck!
I just wondered if she is still working ok?