Found this part in the screen filter for the transmission on a d8t. Wondering what it could be or came from. Sometimes when tracking when cold the tracks will lock up. Any thoughts?
First off, what is the serial number of the machine? Secondly, which screen did you find that inside? The magnetic screen at the pump or the sump screen at the back of the transmission?
Kpzoo775 is the serial. Sump screen right before the pump
Sorry not the sump one. It's the one right under the floor board next to the pump. The suction screen
Do you mean this one (#1) in the area listed as "K" on the LH illustration.?
This one here the power train screen.
First thing in the morning the tracks won't engage then will after a couple trys. After that it is fine the rest of the day. Any ideas?
Do you mean it doesn't want to engage gear or that it engages gear but it appears as though the brakes don't want to release.? Any recent repair work on the power train (converter, transmission, final drives, brakes)..?
Its always when you go to first fire it up and use it. You put it into first gear and it won't engage or move or it will sometimes move a few feet and then lock up and stop. Seems to just do it in first gear. If you put it into second gear seems to move fine. After you fire it up and are using it then it is fine the rest of the day. Even after it sits after being used and warmed up it doesn't do it.
No recent work has been performed just regular service. The perform service on the transmission filters has come up and I have changed those out a couple times within last 1500 hrs. Machine has 13000 hrs on it.
What brand & grade of oil is in the transmission.? At 13k hours it is probably getting a bit tired in 1st speed if it moves OK in 2nd. I take it that it does the same both forward & reverse when it's cold.?
Cat to-4 sae 30
Well that answers that question. No issues there. It might be about time to put pressure gauges on the transmission when it's cold and see if there is any difference between how the 1st and 2nd speed clutches react when engaged. Was there anything else in the suction screen apart from the spool in your photo? Still baffled as to what it is though.......
Yes both forward or reverse. That part I found in the suction screen has me stumped on what happened and where it came from
I'll have to check the pressures and see where they're at
Maybe just a few tiny pieces of rubber from maybe a hose or something was in there other than that pretty clean.
I'll be honest it doesn't look like anything I've ever seen in a transmission, converter, or anything else related to the rear-end.
I searched throughout the parts and service manual yesterday and couldn’t find anything that looked like it.
Same here. Nothing.
Well thanks for your help guys hopefully figure something out.
If you do find out what it is and where it came from be sure to come back and tell us. Time to break out the pressure gauges I think. Or maybe first try a full calibration of all five transmission clutch solenoid valves if you have access to ET. Apparently you can also perform the calibration using the Advisor Panel (procedure is in SIS) but I have never done it that way.
I thought I'd seen it somewhere before............
Looks similar, what is that or where is it located?
It's an oil gun nozzle. The rest of the bits are probably floating around in the sump.
That's one to file in the old memory bank.
Oh wow! yeah probably what it is.
CMark deserves a pint of beer for that one.Top man.
In relation to your cold tranny problem,my D9T had a similar issue a couple of years ago.Got the laptop chaps out and found a couple of cellenoids in the tranny needed replacing.Was no great problem or expense thankfully.
I'm getting transmission speed sensor fault codes. 113 585-2 and 113 673-2. Are these located inside the transmission? How do you access them? I'm thinking they might be dirty because of sporadic stalling in first gear.
They are mounted inside the transmission planetary group, and to get at them you have to pull out the transmission. You might be lucky and find it is a harness fault because they have both gone AWOL at the same time. See attached testing procedures. I'll send you an electrical schematic. Is the transmission oil clear and bright in colour.? Doesn't smell burned at all.? If it has a good colour and no burned smell it is quite probable that your problem is electrical.
All my clutch pressures seem to be good and in operating range. I think it either has something to do with the speed sensors or the shift solenoids. Do the shift solenoids have any fault codes when they go bad?
Yes they do, and from what you're saying you don't have any of them. Go through the two troubleshooting procedures above and see where they get you. What's the transmission oil colour & smell like.?
Ok will do. I will check the oil again. Seemed like it was in pretty good condition. It just seems like it's something eletrical
How do I do these troubleshooting procedures if I can't access the sensors?
If you study the procedures the tests are made on the sensor harness connector on the outside of the transmission.
How could someone not notice something like that was missing?
I'm getting this current on #5 solenoid in first gear forward and reverse. Going to try and swap it out. Are the solenoids labeled which one is what or is there a diagram?
I think I have it figured out on the schematic we'll see
I think if I was in your shoes I would be tempted to try a transmission clutch fill calibration first before going into the control valve with tools.
I'll try that now
Any time that you replace or interchange those solenoid valves it is a requirement according to the Service Manual that the Powertrain ECM needs a complete clutch fill re-calibration.
This is what I got. Clutch #4 failed calibration
Remind me of the calibration again. Does the process calibrate each clutch in sequence automatically or do you have to manually do it one at a time.? #4 clutch is for 2nd speed. Did #5 clutch calibrate OK or did the process not get that far.?
It goes in sequence. It did not get to clutch #5
I'm not sure why its saying #4. 2nd gear seems to have no issues.
I can't see anything in the Service Manual. Does ET have any sort of diagnostic procedure for the "10C0" Error Code.? If there is no procedure I would suggest to swap the solenoids for #4 & #5 clutches and attempt the calibration again. I cannot see anything really quick that identifies which solenoid is which. The best I can suggest is to identify each individual solenoid by the colours/numbers in the machine wire harness at the transmission control valve.
Not the best picture but they’re identifiable.
What do you reckon to the idea of swapping solenoids #4 & #5 and attempt to run the calibration again.?
That’s what I would do, yes.
I'll have to try that in the morning. Should I swap them or try replacing with new. Thanks
Swap them and see if problem follows or stays. No need to throw money if the problem is in the clutch and not the modulation valve.
Agreed. If the problem follows the solenoid then #4 clutch will calibrate, #5 will fail, and the fix is a simple solenoid replacement. If it doesn’t then it looks as though the transmission is coming out.
I would suggest if it comes to a rebuild you should replace all of the modulation valves anyway because they are a common failure point.
100% agree. The modulation valves should be on the list of "must use parts" for a transmission in just the same way as clutch friction discs, plates, bearings, etc.
I swapped #4 and 5 no difference. Failed to calibrate clutch #4. When it's trying to calibrate #4 I can feel it like it's trying to engage. Like a jolt every few seconds. #1-3 doesn't do that.
I don’t know what @ahart & @Mobiltech think but it sounds suspiciously like transmission out time to me.
That’s the ECM commanding the modulation valve to increase pressure to the #4 clutch until it sees the necessary speed change to confirm that the clutch has engaged. If it doesn’t see that speed change by the time the connanded pressure has reached X psi the calibration falls over. That’s what yours is doing.
I just ran the calibration test again. It did clutch #1-4 and now clutch #5 failed
And the #4 solenoid is still in position #5.?
Yes
In that case I suggest to try a new modulating valve in #5 station and run the calibration again. From experience it helps to have the tractor well warmed-up (both engine & trans) before you attempt a calibration.
I replaced with a new one and tried calibration again. Still the same. #5 failed calibration error code 10c1
You posted earlier that the calibration was failing at #4 but after a modulating valve swap and a few more calibration attempts it finally succeeded on #4 only to fail on #5. Have you tried it multiple times.? Are there any other Active Diagnostic Codes still present.?
Yes I tried multiple times now. Now it goes through 1-4 and #5 fails. The transmission output speed sensor #1 and #2 code came up once. I then moved the machine and they weren't active no more
That's because a clutch was supposed to be engaged somewhere and did not produce the expected transmission output speed reading - because the clutch was not engaged and the machine was not moving. Going back to what the oil looks & smells like. Can you possibly drain a small quantity into a transparent container (an oil sample bottle if you have one) and post a photo with the light shining through it so that we can see what it looks like. Then stick your nose over the container and take a good sniff. Does it smell burned.?
When it try’s to calibrate clutch 5 is the machine jumping ahead. If so that will abort the calibration. Make sure you have the latest trans software as I had a d6 that would abort due to movement. I downloaded latest flash file and it completed the calibration with much smoother shifts overall. Due to the oil looking bad though you may be in for a rebuild soon anyway.
I’d suggest filling out the entire pressure chart for the powertrain system before you go any further and definitely before you go pulling any components. Another thing you can do is set up a data log to record transmission temp while the calibration is running and see if it increases when a specific clutch is calibrating.
It does not jump ahead while trying to calibrate. And I'll see about getting a oil sample. When I changed both the transmission filters recently because the powertrain filter service light came on. The oil that drained out of the canisters didn't look the greatest. Kinda metallic.
I have done the chart and looked at the pressures. All clutch pressures are in required range when engaged. It seems transmission temp stays about the same through out each clutch calibration
I know you found the oil fill nozzle in the suction screen because this was where we came in........ What else did you find in it.? Any appreciable quantity of what looked like black "sand" for want of a better expression.?
Took 4 pages of discussion for that to come out? Did you happen to cut open the filters and see exactly what you were dealing with? Metallic oil in any system is pretty relevant information. Have you hooked any gauges to the powertrain system yet?
Would you like to post it up so that everyone can have a look.?
No the screen was pretty clean maybe a few little tiny pieces of like rubber
Back to the question from @ahart regarding whether you cut the powertrain filters open and what you found in them.
I'm not at our shop at the moment. I believe I still have the filters. I have not cut them open.
I’d like to see torque converter pressures and lube pressure also.
Clutch pressures i took with a digital gauge at low idle.
Here is a LINK to the best video I have found so far showing how to cut & inspect an oil filter. Yes I know it's an engine filter but the principle is the same. The important part is squeezing the sample of filter media in a vice to remove the oil which enables you to clearly see the particles.
I see some of the black sand looking material you're talking about Nige. And some metal. Doesn't look very good.
I’ve seen worse Franklin,much worse. Looks ok without close up glasses on job. The pleats are black from new and you often see the odd flake of metal in there
He's gone very quiet..........
There seemed like there was quite a bit of black gritty material in the creases of the pleats to me. And pretty metallic looking. Yes probably harder to see in the pictures posted. They're shouldn't really be none unless one of the clutches is starting to go right?
Correct. That hard gritty stuff is burned clutch disc friction material.
Machine has still been working. 1st gear seems as if it's getting worse with the sporadic stops. Been using it in 2nd gear and working fine just pushing garbage off a slope with no real hard pushing. I think I might have to pull the transmission.
I think you're probably on the right track.
At least it’s pretty easy to pull tranny out even with a ripper