Hello everyone, So we're working on a d9h that had a steering clutch non release issue. What had happened was the outer hub walked loose and the nut and the lock bold ended up in the basket. When the clutch was applied it caused the clutch to smash and jam. The last owner pulled the outer shaft and fixed and pressed a new hub on. They changed the piston seals but didn't do the swivel seals behind the hub. When we got to the machine we tested it and found the swive seals were gone. We also checked runout on the inner hub and found 10 thousandths run out on it. We pressed the hub off and found what looked like the front half of the taper belled.( looked looseand worn) The hub has been making metal to metal contact where the seals run with the bearing housong. We did out best to check run out on the shaft itself using a feeler guage against the threads and a dial indicator and got 6 to 7 thousandths run out. Does anyone know the max permissible run out on the ****? We're looking into either replacing the hub and bearing housing or changing out the bevel shaft.
Seems your issue is with a compromised spline/taper on the bevel gear shaft. I'd expect run out to be only a couple of thousands but I couldn't find any specs. My parts diagram is for the D9G but I believe the "H" is the same. If the replacement hub has been running that much out of round it probably has damaged the seal surfaces as well.
Thanks for the info. We haven't tried a new hub on it yet. We're hoping the old hub just belled out on the taper spline. We're going to be pulling the shaft this week. We didn't plan on it but during the process of running it to dial the shaft the bearings sounded terrible. We measured 11 thousands play up and down. We figure pull it and replace the bearings and we can check the shaft in a lathe. It's really frustrating caterpillar didn't machine a a smooth spot after the threads to check runout. It's hard to guage off the threads.
Specs on the hub press is 35-40 ton and the distance between the face of the hub and the shoulder of the bevel gear shaft should be 0.12", +/- 0.03 in. Might consider a little less press tonnage if belling or splitting the hub is a concern. Good plan on checking the shaft in a lathe. If tapered splines are buggered up or the hub presses to far it's a no go. Be aware that early machines have piston that is free to rotate. Later machines have the piston and pilot splined together and rotate as a unit with the hub. There should be an unthreaded portion of the shaft before the shoulder that could be used to check run out.
The specs you gave on pressing it on look like the same specs in my h book. They do have a little note saying later model h's will have higher tonnage I think it said 50 to 55, same distance. This one took about 60 tons with heat to get off. When I put the torch on the hub I did notice oil bubbling out of the front of the hub between the splines. We will make sure to press it on slowly and periodically check it. We might have to switch to a older hub and piston if we can't locate a h one. There are plenty of gs parted out locally. I double checked the shaft and couldn't find a spot to run the dial indicator on. Cat ran that thread right into the face of the spline. Thanks for the input it's greatly appreciated.
Mind the horrible oil. This is the press unit we built.
Looks to have a little moisture in there.
Typical tropical climate, can't keep water/moisture out of anything.
The oil is horrible, probably the worst oil I have seen in a while. Watery plus they were running that brake with no steering clutch. Its full of brake meterial. Plus they changed the seals on the outer hub shaft that goes into the final drive and managed to put one of the seals in backwards so it was leaking oils back ans forth. I'm hoping the water is from the brake covers being glued on with rtv red and absolutely no effort to clean the surfaces. They didn't even tighten all the bolts. It's hawaii and it rains alot, either thay or a bad trans cooler.
Here's some pics of the tear down. Spent a few hours pulling the right steering clutch and removing the bevel gear cover. We also drained the old oil. We managed to get a used good shape bevel gear shaft, hub and bearing housing for the left side. The bevel gear and pinion had 55 thousandths play in it.
Was wondering how it was going, looks like your in to it. Good luck with repairs.
We're really into it now. We got the shaft out and in the lathe. It has a ten thousandth bend on one end of the shaft. We also found the right bearing housing seal groove is torn up. We're trying to locate a replacement. If we can't we will machine it out ans press in a hardened sleeve. We also noticed a questionable line on one of the teeth on the pinion. We got a new used shaft, we checked it in the lathe ans it runs true. We also got a used good hub and bearing housing for the left side.
By questionable line does it look like a pending fracture? Can't really tell from the picture. That 0.055" backlash probably didn't help any. What kind of service was this tractor in, seems it lived a hard life.
It looks like either metal flakes smeared over or a possible fracture starting. We're going to clean it well and get a better look at it. Worst case we will be pulling the trans to change it out for a new pinion before we re shim the bevel gear shaft. The story on this unit is murky. It was at one time working in California then sold and shipped to hawaii to rip and pack lots. The lack of service was on this end of its life and happened in a period of a year or two. We purchased the machine broken hoping the damage wasn't to bad. But as of now it's looking like we're in for our money's worth. We can make back the investment pretty fast leveling lots. Most lots are 1 acre. It's about 12 to 15k to rip up the lava rock and level it. Rocks not that hard but if your abusive it will destroy a d9 in a shot period.
Forgot to ask, what is the s/n?
We still haven't found a serial number for this tractor. It seems all the tags have been removed. We have just been going off part numbers ro replace parts. The machine seems to be a latter serial number machine. Most of the parts are later revised parts numbers. We end up locating a brand new replacement bearing housing for the right side for $250.00 +100 shipping. We are now just waiting on bearings to show up. We still have to make sure we don't have a failing tooth on our pinion. I really wish cat made it so you could remove the pinion from the back of the trans.
s/n should be stamped on the rear case where the tag is normally found.....unless it is covered up by the ripper attachment. Lots of room to work in there with the trans out....
Nice pic, is that you in the pic? We're gonna order a new pinion tomorrow along with new pinion bearings. We're 90 percent sure its a crack or the start of a fracture on the pinion. I'll try to take some pics of the trans on the way out. My only fear is what else we will find failing when we open the trans up.
And at the moment the ripper is on the rear of the tractor. We're planing on pulling it after we get the machine up and running. It has a loose nut, possibly a broken stud.
That's a buddy working the "flintstone" tractor LOL. I was taking the picture. Good call on the pinion, you don't want to be going in there again real soon.
Spent half a day on it and got the trans ready to be lifted out. What a oily dirty job. Def finely have some leaks to sort out. Tried to get the lower bolts with the belly pan on but ended up dropping the pan. Just have ro locate 4 hardened lifting bolts tomorrow and it should be out. It's held in on the two top bolts atm.
Gotta love working on old iron.
Be a good time to replace the o-rings in the tubes feeding the transmission controls while your in there. Big question is where to stop when working on this old iron!!!!! 2500 lb lift on that transmission, be careful.
Haha yeah that's always the question, where to stop. We're going to try and replace all the oring and reseal the trans control and regulator blocks. Maybe try to replace some of the hoses while we're in there. We're selling off one of our new hammers as well as one of our older 977s to generate more money for parts. We're off this morning to do a grading gob and hopefully swing by a few bolt storrs to find some hardness lifting eyes.
Here some pics of the trans coming out. Thankfull we own a telehandler. I'm really happened we didn't have ro pull the whole trans apart to get at the pinion. We pulled the 3 down pins on the back of the trans and got the back plate off and the pinion out. We're gonna replace the pinion bearings due to them feeling loose. Would have snapped more pics but my phone died.
What kind of shape are the transfer gears in??
Transfer gears? The one that drives the pinion? They seemed to be in really good shape. This was supposidly remand by cat in California before it was sold at auction. Almost all parts seem new. Even the damaged parts are new parts with new stamped part numbers. The machine was painted with the transmission out to. There is fresh over spray in the bevel gear case on the trans side. The transmission is extreemly clean on the inside as well. The planet gears I can reach seem really tight and show no wear. I'll snap some pics whn I get back to the yard.
Hey old magnet would you happen to have a attachments parts manual for the d9h? We're trying to find a bushing for the blade. It's the center joint where the two braces meet in the center being the blade.
Best I can do is for the D9G 66A6678-up. Listed as bearing 8J7978. Probably the same for the H. 6J8792 Push Arm and Brace Group - Type 4. Earlier versions use a 6J6364 bearing.
The bevel gear shaft we got as a replacement was pretty rusty so we have been soaking it in vinegar. Seems to be working really well. Half is soaked the other wasn't.
New hub sowed up with the new bearing set for one side of the bevel gear. Also the new pinion showed up. Should be getting the new salt track links dropped off tomorrow. Ohh and the press adapter to press the hubs showed up from asia. Only one cat had left in stock. Few more bearings and we can start out re assembling her.
Pics like that should have the weight listed so you realize how big they are. Never new vinegar was so good at removing rust.
Hah yeah, we're having alot mailed flat rate through the post office lol. They love us haha. This is our first time using vinegar to remove rust. I'm 100% sold on it. Only thing is you need to wash it really good after and oil. But I haven't seen anything work so well.
These puppy's showed up today. The shipping company brought them in the back of a isuzu box moving truck. We couldn't reach in enough so they used their fork dolly to move them to the back of the truck. Their dolly punched it's wheels through the wood floor of the truck. It was comical.
Heavy!!! about 3,300 lbs each.
OWIE!! That will put a dent in deliveries?? Looks very good so far. I am going to note down the vinegar trick.
Got a chance to verify that bearing number for the late DH blade and it is a #8J7978
Also know as citric acid rust removal. Pretty common to "old iron" restoration.
Thanks om. We're gonna try get that fixed before we start working the machine. It's completely blown out, couldn't tell what was supposed to be in there.
I also read you can mix something else with the vinegar to make it more powerfull, I think it was wood bleach but don't recall off the top of my head. I started cleaning my shop tools in it and I'm completely blown away how beautiful my old rusty tooling is becoming.
Fun fry day with some hydraulic oil Ended up using dry ice and aceton mix. And heated up parts to 250. Everything just dropped in beautifully. Then we washed it all off with hotish oil to get rid of the condensation. Now we're waiting for our new shim packs to show up so we can start the re assembly process. Also got the new hydraulic pump and new hoses for the machine in the mail. It's getting there.
Watching with interest!!! Looking good so far.
Quick update on the project. The holidays have put a slow down on having parts delivered. Amazon has caused a shipping fiasco in hawaii during the holidays. We're still waiting on our new shim packs to show up. We got the new hydraulic pump and new hoses and the new transmission input yoke. Also a new transmission oil pump. I'm off to the mainland for a few weeks for holiday. I'll post pics when I get back home.
Update on the project, the holidays are finally over and I'm just getting over the flu. Spent the day cleaning and installing the bevel gear shaft. Took a bit of time to get the bearings preloaded to the proper spec. Then we installed the bevel gear and we're planing on installing the trans so could adjust the lash but it's now on hold because we opted to change out one more bearing in the back of the trans. Whoever installed the trans last didn't install the sprayers so the upper bearings were running dry. We thought we couldn't get to the bearing race pins without tearing the trans apart but we located the pins on the outside today. Also found the left side outer (driving the final gear) bearing cage had the bearing dowl sheared off and the bearing was spinning in the cage. So we ordered a new cage and all new bearings for both sides. The left gear taper spline also looks to be in poor shape due to the hub running loose so we're looking at replacing it. Trying to track down a local one but we found new ones for 550+shipping. Overall we are down to replacing almost everything in the bevel gear compartment besides the steering clutches and drums. Don't mind the green primer, it's still a cat I swear lol.
You are to be complimented on doing the job right. Amazing how these projects grow and take on a life of their own. Should pay off with many years of trouble free operation. Can almost see/smell the smoke. Good luck with the start up.
Thanks om. What amazes me is we talked to alot of d9 owners and everyone was confused when we talked about setting bearing tolerances and even shiming the pinion. We still have to tackle the hydraulic system. We have everything ti rebuild all cylinders and blocks and a new pump. We're gonna remove the tank and open it up to clean it out. I have a quick question for you. This machine has a oil cooler for the hydraulic system. One line pulls from the return and the second was blocked off. Should the second line dump directly in the tank? Would that be a big enough pressure difference to create flow? Still haven't pulled the ripper plate off to get the serial off the frame so we're blind on the serial atm. Our manuals don't show any such system but it looks to be authentic cat. Well after that we have to pull the equlizer bar out because the thrust bearings are completely missing and the bar has slid forwards. Figured were gonna put a new bushing and seals at the same time. There is also no shims on the outer pins so the track frames have been running wild. I refuse to operate the machine without it being shimmed up. Thay being said I'm worried the rear inner bushings on the track frames took a beating from the frames moving in and out. It's like one big bucket of worms and the sad part is there's no fishing involved. Thanks again for all your help om.
I do not show an oil cooler for the 183 & 193 Hydraulic Control. Are you referring to the machines hydraulic system or the Hydraulic Control. It would be helpful to know the s/n of the Hydraulic Control System. There should be a tag on top of the tank. There should be three lines going from the tank to the two section pump.
The hydraulic system for the blade and ripper. It has a cooler similar to the trans cooler on the side of the engine block. Looks like it a newer engine that had the hydraulic cooler on it. They added a spacer block to the return port on the tank and have one line plumbed up but the second is blocked with a cap. I'll try to get the serial off the tank today.
Seems that might be for s/n 42Vxxxx series 193B Hydraulic Control. I don't have a parts book for that one (yet).
another really interesting story here.. watching
Thanks for the info. I'll try to get the serial off of the tank. It might take me a few days though. I just had corrective surgery on my nose today to fix a breathing problem and it's gonna put me out of work for a week or two.
It's crazy how much damage was Don in such a short period of time. It was supposedly all gone over by cat by the previous owner. How much of that is true idk. But they changed all the bearings and installed new cages and new hubs. Somehow the twisted bevel gear shaft was over looked. It had a 10k bend on one end and it just tore everything apart. I'll try to keep the pics rolling in. Right next to this 9 is a d3b we got for a500 dollar trade. Beautiful little machine but they did a awful number on the undercarriage and finally gave up when they burnt out a steering clutch. I dream of the day we get to rebuild that machine.
You can stand on the ground to work on that one. No standing on you head over a hole with your hands in all that ground up metal.
Yep it's actually low enough to use a rolling seat. The part I'm most excited for is the low cost of the parts. Worst part is the machine was left in the weather for a few years and has some decent rust damage. The engine and trans are remand u it's with 1200hrs on them ans they look spotless. It just took the usual dow fall starting with broken track springs leading to lots of weldig and jurry rigging.
Why would you jinx a nice Cat with Terex green LOL? I guess it's like a racing stripe in your underwear, you just think nobody will ever see it huh? On the one hand, it's not crowded to work on a 9 but the weight of every thing more than makes up for the wide open space. I'd say that you've spent as much for one of those bearings as you did for that D3B. Get a pic of them side by side.
It's just primer, we plan on giving everything a nice coat of cat yellow once it's clean. I'll admit it didn't feel right spraying on the paint lol. But yeah its really nice with all the room. We had a 977 that we recently sold and I hated working on it. It was packed like a sardine can. But yeah a few were up ans up on the price. We did pretty good getting old stock for reduced price but we're still about 10k in on bearings and cages. Do you own a d9?
No i don't currently own one. Following this build along with the other one in Australia though with great interest.
Herr is how she sits atm. Can't wait to get the new tracks on her. Half of this side chain is a komatsu 355 links :/. I'm sure the pitch is metric because all those bushings are cracked. The second pic is the bearing retainer pin we located. You cat to it by going througg the bottom of the trans througg the suction whole for the sump. Drill out a 1/2 inch freez plug and the pin comes out.
Here's the 500 dollar d3b. It was still a good but even with the work it needs.owner was asking 8k but it sat on craigs for 4 years in the weather. He sold the ripper off the back but those are useless here anyways. We plan on a full restore job. Maybe track down a whole set of track frames. The chains and pads are decent with round bushings. Engine and trans have reman tags and the fluids are spotless. I started it and drI've it a bit and she hooked up strong and low on the rpm. The thought they could remove the steering clutch through the final so they pulled it off and got it half way back on lol.
What in the name of everything holy did they do to that track frame? Looks like they took a shortcut and cut it to get at the final drive? Then why is the recoil spring cut? I can tell that you don't mind a challenge. I bet that D9 came from California from the looks of that slope blade attachment on the push frame. It looks like you're on the part of the island that gets a rain everyday from the rust that I see.
Looks like the spring cage rod broke and they had to kill the spring to try to fix it. The adjuster cylinder and idler yoke appear to be missing from what I can see in the photo.
Lol right, sadly this is a pretty common sight out here. They paid 26k for the machine and did this in a year and a half of owning it. Even for 500 dollars we had to think it over for a bit. The engine and trans were the selling point. But yeah were on the wet side and if you don't keep things powerwasher and painted it rots out fast. And we figured it was a cali machine with the slope attachment and even the extra hight welded on the blade. The last owner said it was shipped out here not that long ago then it got run into the ground in a short period of time.
Yeah figured it started with a broken spring then on to welding thing together. Even the lower guides for the idler are torn off. The last owner paid 28k for the machine witch was reconditioned and then proceded to make it into this in a year and a half. The selling point was the engine and trans. Figured find a good set of track frames out of the state's and replace the cylinder rods and re pin and bushing the blade. It's still hard to find a decent d3 out here for less then 15k.
The larger bearings showed up now we're waiting on the drive gear , bearing cage and about 4 more sets of bearings. And two sets of seals. You can see how the spline was run with a loose hub walking on it. They also welded up the end and re threaded it. I'm not sure why one would not juse replace the gear at that point. Also the races have terrible impressions on them. We're probably going to replace every ball bearing in the driveline when we're done.
Starting to rebuild the control blocks. We also split the tank to clean it and re gasket it. I haven't seen orings this bad in a while.
Don't mind the home made parts washer we threw together to do the initial cleaning with diesel.
I like the big ass blob of red silicone on the green hose flange. That always indicates quality previous work. Those o-rings have been hot once or twice. Maybe they're supposed to be the high temp yellow ones.
I've got that same Craftsman tool box, was given to me as a gift right before I started my business, one of the last made in the USA ones, it has been great to me for many years. Just don't drop the tray when you carry it around, or all 3 like I once did, and as you can see it likes to fill with water.
Yeah it's the sign that corners were cut in every direction and more then one seal is put in backwards lol. But yeah they had the pilot system hooked up backwards and nuked 3 pumps from over pressure/heat. We finished the rebuild on the two blocks today and the new cat orings were a combo of black and a few red.
Haha yeah I've had I think like 4 or 5 over the years. They usually end with the cases failing. It the best feeling when the lid pops off and every socket from all the trays are on the ground. And yeah those trays are a bit to watertight. I just washed the whole tray out with diesel to get the water out.
I leave mine on the truck, I have it tucked in a compartment like it belongs there. Just pull out whatever drawer I need and take it with me. I only dumped the whole thing once, never again.
Haha I keep ours in the service truck now. Our fits in a compartment all to well. Biggest problem is some times were distracted on a machine and forget the door open and it begins to rain. It's always raining here. For the money these sockets have more then paid for themselves and we have yet to break one.
My 1/4 rachet handle long ago started stripping out, probably from a combination of water and overtorque, so I replaced it with a better one, but other than that mine have been pretty much perfect as well. I have a few Chinese Craftsman sockets in there now to replace ones I lost, American ones are hard to find and there is a little difference but not enough to care.
Yeah I think I've broken all 3 ratchets at one point. Sears replaced them but I can't stand the new 1/4 ratchet it's so sloppy chinese now. But yeah I use the old sets to also replace sockets I've misplaced. This must be common practice wit these sets lol.
I bought a nice looking 1/4 rachet handle off ebay, chrome and slick. I think it is a Husky. It works well, nice fine rachet teeth, but the blasted flipper lever is opposite of normal so I always have to remember that.
Good on you for figuring out all those issues. Somebody had really done some shoddy work on it in the past.
So update for the day We went to change out the outer seal on the torque converter and I decided to try and pry up the converter to see the bearings and I could move it up about half a inch. So we ordered the bearings and seals for it tonight. Planing on pulling it tomorrow I'll post pics.
We got the tq out and stripped down. I'm actually suppressed how large our old d7e tq is next to a d9. The main thrust bearing plate and gesr plate were worn so bad they were letting the main taper bearing run loose. We have all new bearings piston seals and wear parts in the mail. Maybe tomorrow I'll turn down some 5/8 rod to .620 so we can perform the clesrence tests. Also have ro track down some .620 balls for another check. The main stator cover looks like it made contact with the impeller just by looking at the flange. We priced one and it's reasonable. If it's bad were gonna order it. Here's some pics
We also got a 90 pound box of parts in today for the trans and the left side 18 tooth pinion. Also a new bearing cage for the pinnion. The difference in the taper splines is deffinetly notable.
Got the pinions broken down and new bearing races dry ice fitted. Also got the tq converter broken down and found the planetary gear oil feeds plugged with silicone.
Wow!, what do you know about the history of this machine? Seems you'd want to track down any recent previous work and undo whatever was attempted.
Supossidly it was a reman tractor sold at auction in California. The bevel gear shaft started going bad on the first owner and was sold and "fixed" and run for about 2k hrs by the last owners. We have located almost all the recent work and are rebuilding those components. We found rtv on the transmission cover and multiple trans case bolts finger loose. We're now going to open the trans case up and see if it's torqued together. The tq converter was a total mess. A retaining nut that calls for 750 lb ft of tq was finger loose. Tons of bolts were replaced with grade 5 true value bolts. If I knew any of these things prior I think we would have skipped out on this tractor.
I knew a guy that bought a small JD dozer used. After about 4 hours pushing dirt he noticed a small trail of oil following it. The trans case had an ~11” long crack down the side. The previous owner had covered it with silicon and sold the dozer. Trans removal, complete tear down, hours of welding cast iron, reassembly. Worked great for years. The purchaser had checked the machine, but the crack was impossible to see without some disassembly. Sometimes you just get Bitten, and it HURTS!
True, it's pretty hard to truly know what your buying. We figured a 9h at this price would have its issues. the plus side is we will now truly know this machine and have peace of mind taking it on jobs.
When compared against the price of a new D9T I'm sure the cost of operation will be a real bargain.
Yeah the d9ts out here are asking 360k for one with about 13k original hours. I'm guessing 300k to refresh one.
We got most of the parts delivered for the tq converter. We had to change just about 99% of the guts out. we measured the wear new vs old in the main thrust that tightens the main bearing and it's almost 70 thou. Last hold up is the new main tq shaft is in the mail. The old one was splitting on the oil holes.
So looks like we're going to be pulling the engine. I was pulling the pilot bearing and decided to check in and out on the crank. We have a wopping 130thou on the crank in and out. The up and down is only 5 thou. Could a failing torqueconverter cause the engine to eat its thrust besrings? The book is really specific about checking face runout on the flywheel. Could a failing tq converter cause the flywheel to get knocked out of true and cause the crank to walk? Any ideas what would cause the thrusts to fail. The engine has 6k hrs and looks to be not messed with since it was rebuilt. Anyhow were gonna pull the engine to get to the bottom of it. Trans is going in today so we can buttton Up the back end of the machine before we pull the engine. Just had to get new taper studs for the trans. Last idiots lost the taper lock studs and put bolts in their place.
I had that happen on a D9G. I was lucky and found the end play first while pulling down the motor and convinced the owners that the torque converter had to come apart also. The vanes on the stator had lost their press and the outer ring had actually tilted the vanes and the ring was being held in a circle by one of the aluminum parts. I don't know whether the problem started in the engine and went back or started in the torque converter and went forward.
That sounds like the situation on this machine. We're also trying to figure out what failed first.