I had a CAT field tech tell me yesterday that the service rates were going up October 1st. He then commented that the reason was to DISCOURAGE service calls. I found that really odd and so did he. He said that its been impossible to hire qualified help whether its shop or field. He said on average that they are several weeks out when called and management felt this was the only solution. I have listed the current rates and the new rates below. I was wondering what others thought of the decision and what your dealer rates are currently. Current rate Shop-$125.00 New rate $135.00 Current rate Field- 135.00 New rate $150.00 Current travel rate per hour $110.00 New rate $120.00 Current per mile $$2.50 New rate $3.50 Is this somewhere in line with what you see in your area?
I think we're in the high $160's but with the exchange rate that probably puts us in the $130's in US dollars.
Wow.. that IS odd.. but generally speaking.. & I don't care which brand of tractor/machine it is.. the "field tech" doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground anyway.. & ends up costing the owner more money FOR NOTHING.. 80% of the time they spend all their time driving, only to get out to the site & tell the guy, either I don't have the parts on the truck {prob. NEVER hear a tech admit THAT}.. OR.. its gotta go to the shop.. SO theres a 1000.00 bill down the drain.. Has anyone EVER been satisfied w/ a DEALER TECH that's come out to your site?? {seriously} I say, its NOT because of the work load.. I say because of the embarrassment to the dealer.. Sorry if I offended any dealer mechanics on here.. its just been MY experience.. But I would like to hear from others.. Don't mean to hijack the thread V..
If you are several weeks out with work and understaffed, wouldn't raising the price make sense? Supply and demand it seems.
No problem TPG. Im very curious myself!
You would thin k so, but the service tech said they had a management meeting over this and the reason was SPECIFICALLY to discourage service calls, shop and field. That's what is really odd to me.
I only raise my rate if someone wants their sh*t infront of everybody else.. If I have to stop what I'M doing & put someone else on hold, it costs more..
You said, "service calls shop & field"?? You mean someone elses shop?? What do they wanna do, just answer phones & sell parts??
Their shop rates. Evidently the shop is in as bad of shape as the field service. I was in their shop at CAT a few weeks ago...….I only saw 2 guys that looked over 40 years old. Everyone else looked like 20 somethings. The last 2 field techs I had come out both said they didn't know a lot about the equipment that I called them out on.....that's even more shocking! I know when I was a dealer tech, I was expected to know everything about the equipment and how to troubleshoot all of the systems. Things have changed a lot since then I guess.
I know whatcha mean.. I don't know weather they keep the "good techs" IN the shop to work & send the "scrubs" out in the field, just to show-up on the jobsite?? but that's the way it seems.. It was just the EXACT OPPOSITE when I was working for a company.. They WANTED THE BEST out in the field as a representative of their company.. "I" have NEVER, in over 25 years, left a jobsite w/o the machine running.. even if it meant making a trip back to the shop for a part/filter.. & ONLY BECAUSE the customer lied.. {that never happens, does it? }
Last road call from my CAT dealer was early last year, $115/hr &$3.80/mi & fuel surcharge. 1hr @45mi = $276..... x2 = $552 just for the privilege of the truck and driver. As for support/ knowledge/ ability, I've only ever sent 2 techs packing in all my years. But, I've had quite a few that I've had to educate. And, believe it or not, there are quite a few techs out there worth the $115/hr, but, that's for the jobs that require more than a book to figure out, or the jobs that really suck. So, A) it is job security for me 2) it ensures that my dealer(s) never get "gravy" jobs from me iii) it should create a better environment for independent repair shops
I've run across a few real winners for field techs through the years. I don't have to call for help often but recently I've dealt with a couple of the local Deere/Hitachi field techs and I have to say I've been impressed. They know their stuff and they are not arrogant,getting all bent out of shape because I was there working on their equipment. While working with one of them he was asking my opinion on what he was finding. I find that very encouraging, so yes, I have been satisfied.
I get $65.00 a hour and 1.25 a mile and I felt guilty when I raised my rates $5,00 a hour but I am old school I can't do much with this computer crap
Hey, here's an idea...why not pay the field and shop techs more money and give them benefits so as to attract them to work for your dealership and stay with your dealership for years and years? Of course, the CEO might not get to continue making $140 million a year if they did that...
the cat house here has been over a 150 field rate for a year i think the shop rate is over 120 to and it will probably go up again soon the deere house has been a little more reasonable. but i really have no complaints over the techs most know there way around well enough to get the job done. the problem i see here is yea its hard to find people but the guys doing the hiring only look at guys that have some kind of schooling from a trade school and wont hire anyone without unless they have years of verifired experience they end up passing over some good people cause the suit thinks paper is gold to hands on real work. everyone has to start somewhere i dont mind guys learning as long as my bill doesnt finance that education free and clear
If you're directing that at me, my beef isn't the hourly on the jobsite. My beef is that my Caterpillar truck driver and truck with tools (travel rate) is between 20 & 50% higher than any other heavy equipment dealer (Case. Komatsu, Deere). Need a Cat guy to update an ECM, on a service magazine update, and the 1 hour update can easily top $1000? I have every tool they would need, and the same truck, but I don't have the software update capability. What happened to, "we'll throw a guy in s pickup and only charge $300 instead of a $1000?" Or, for a software update, "we'll set your PSSR with it"? Had loose hoses inside the newfangled coupler on my 16hour 325FLCR, and, since it was two hours away, they quoted (over the phone) that the onsite labor was covered, but the travel wasn't, at over $900. Due to the design, the coupler had to be unpinned at the power link just to access the ORFS loose fittings, and broken O-ring.
I actually have had very good service from the field service techs at carolina tractor out of the monroe , nc store . Used them while i was at the landfill and the new company i am at also uses them as needed , the main store in charlotte we dont use except for parts and hoses
No, talking about the dealers' excuse that they can't find technicians. I get those ridiculous rate quotes from our dealer too.
I know when I was a field tech working for a dealer (wayyy back) , the best people you employed were in the field trucks. We had to be able to troubleshoot and repair everything on site. If it was a major, like a transmission, we had to pull it in the field and transport it to the shop for rebuild. The same for engines and diffs. I can even count how many Detroits ive had to inframe in the field, in the rain, snow, ice, or blazing sun and heat. I don't know how many times Ive had a field tech tell me a problem with a machine was a "shop job" and that machine would need to be transported. Understandable in some cases I know, and it is every dealer not just Cat. I haven't had too much issue with the knowledge of the techs with maybe 2 exceptions over many years. What I don't understand is when an electrical problem becomes a shop job.
From what I understand, the Cat dealer has excellent benefits and are the highest paid techs in this state. Attracting people to work isn't the issue, its attracting experienced, well skilled people that's the problem. There just isn't enough people training in this industry to replace the ones at retirement age. That, and the fact that most young people don't want to work that hard for their incomes.
and I don't know how it is in your areas, but its funny to see people that were working at 1 dealer that now works at another. Its like a carousel with the equipment houses. Its been that way since I can remember. I don't see many new people just well known ones moving around a lot!
About a year ago the local Cat house was getting $140 per hour for field and $3.25 a mile for the truck. I've always figures a call out at a minimum $1,000 charge. What they don't tell you about is the add on charges. Miscellaneous hardware and environmental charges are usually worth another $5 to $10 per hour. Expenses can add even more if you are more than a few hours away from the branch. Every company here is looking for skilled labor. Last I heard the Cat house was paying $39 an hour to top field wrenches. I'm sure that has gone up. The good shops know better than hiring bodies to fill an opening. The lesser shops will hire anyone with a 1/2" Craftsman socket set. When I started only the best got a truck and worked the field. If you apprenticed you did at least three years in the shop and then would get sent out on the quick for short field projects and what ever truck was not being used. Eventually you got a truck assigned to you. In the last few years I saw nation wide advertising for wrenches and newbies being paid bonuses for moving up and going to work here. Most all moved out to the end user companies because they paid a buck or two more and hour. The other issue is how the dealers are treating their top people. Job burn out and the damage to bodies over many years of climbing on iron is making the older guys check out early. I've seen some of my brethren treated like throw away garbage when they started making those health insurance claims on carpal tunnel, worn out knees and bad back pain. Other issue is the retirement systems for the new guys coming in. The Automotive Machinists Union here has been voted out of the last dealer shop because their retirement plan is nearly insolvent. Someone with more than ten years of service will only get about a quarter of what they should have been paid before the last recession. We live in interesting times.
I would like to explore this a little more. I see the same issues, too. One thing to consider are "alternatives" in economic-speak. Lack of mechanics and/or mechanics demanding better pay and benefits makes service rates higher. When service gets super expensive, keeping old stuff running becomes less cost effective to the point where if the customer is a real money making enterprise, they sell it off and buy something newer. Places that are not making money will fold up. Being self employed and having been previously employed at a low-benefits place, it has always been about IRAs for me. The short time in history where the employer/union took care of your wages, health, and retirement is over. (Thankfully I would say.) Nobody will watch out for your own welfare as well as you, yourself will. I would much rather have cash in hand than a benefits package administered by somebody else. It is all about incentives. Much more to say but trying to stick to one idea per post here.
I think it goes a long way to explain why there are so many "second tier" excavating companies. The "top tier" shops buy new equipment and flush it soon after the warranty is up. The little guys gobble it up and fix it themselves. I just can't fathom these shop rates. It's a different world than the one I live in or was brought up in. Heck, my dad's shop rate is just slightly higher than what you guys are saying equipment mechanics are being paid as employees. I see equipment mechanic jobs advertised here in the $18/hr range frequently. I saw one not long ago at $15/hr as a 1099 contractor. There must be some secret inner sanctum that I'm not allowed to see inside.
We try to keep a lid on it but the engine noise is a giveaway . Charge $ 100.00 an hour from the time we leave until I get back . You get the rig & what's on it along with the driver . Could be welding , wrenching ,or winching ? All plays / pays the same . Sometimes late at night I get to feeling bad about billing a customer for the " Fun & Games " . You get a $ 1,000.00 bill from TD that's for 10 hours . After that I am scuffed up & dirty and headed for the shower and some cold barley sodas . LOL !
I live about 2 hours from any thing if i was closer i would buy a truck load up the 23 year old guy that works were i do and go to work. I cant under stand why companys dont try to take young guys and try to teach them to be mechanics. You would need a old mechanlc to teach them and some one that wasnt a ass to manage them then if they were showing promise pay them were they wanted to stay. The guys are out there but you have to want them.
Great point Old Doug ! Outfits big & small come & go quick without the young fellers that are interested in it .
It can be quite a search to find them also. It is awfully hard to find someone who takes pride in their work it seems.
Doug.. when I was "on my way out", decided I was gonna leave,{ but didn't tell anyone yet} I would say, Hey. why don't I take "X" along & teach'm somethin'?? The answer I got was> WE cant do that.. We'd have to charge the customer for an extra guy & at 110.00hr, the customer's not gonna pay that.. I wonder how much they had to KNOCK OFF the bill because they had to send another mechanic out BEHIND "X" to fix the job "X" couldn't.?? Stupid, stupid, stupid !!!
The sawcutters we use have been adding to their workforce and they'll send an extra guy out n/c to do the actual cutting every now and then... the only issue I have seen is the experienced guy that should be instructing him just hangs out and wanders around while the new guy makes mistakes on the cuts!!! now most of our jobs are low profile warehouse locations so most messups aren't that critical but besides doing it wrong and having to do it again it makes a two hour cutting job take 3-4 hours!!! which really messes up anything else I had planned on getting to that day.
I always wondered why a dealership couldn't provide a lesser charge for using an apprentice with a journeyman. When I ran shops I tried to pair up old and new and it worked out OK as long as I shifted the newbies between the old guys every so often. If you don't shift them the newly starts to emulate all the bad habits of the old guy and that isn't alway a good thing. Formal training at dealerships is part of doing business now days with the failing of the unions and state sponsored apprenticeship programs. The only union school I know of left is the Operating Engineers layout outside of Ellensburg. I suppose the community college programs are still running but I haven't heard any noise out of either Bates Votec or South Seattle Community College. I didn't have much use for either of those programs as the graduates usually had a big head and an aversion to doing the really dirty work one gets when breaking in. Poor people and immigrants seem to be future of the industry for good wrenches.
Part of the issue today is... who wants to learn this damn dirty, greasy, job that leaves you with bruises and cuts from head to toe, just so the customer can yell at you for not fixing the thing he didn't tell you about to start with? It's way easier to get into something computer related that pays better and the only cut you get is an occasional paper cut. lol
A generally well respected independent shop here built a fancy new building and also got new management. There were lots of long term employees and service managers that were either forced out or couldn't stand the new management. These are the people that knew the equipment and dealt with the same customers for years. They especially knew the older equipment. They were advertising all kinds of signing bonus's and incentives for new HD mechanics for month's. One of the parts guys that I know stayed on but carried my parts outside so he could talk to me. He said he couldn't say anything inside because they were being watched like being under a microscope. I'm guessing they've lost a lot of business.
Exactly my thoughts. Just like sewage lagoon divers get paid extra for that job. Doing a job that nobody else has the knowledge to do and it is stressful and unpleasant and dirty. And it takes expensive trucks and tools. I learned a new saying a couple weeks ago from an old timer. "This isn't 1974 any more." Gomer and Goober could not do this job.
The shop I work at is pretty light on experience. Most of the shop guys are apprentices or fresh journeyman. Unfortunately they tend to not take much pride in their work and love their phones. The field guys have their ducks in a row though for the most part.
oooh.. don't get me started on the phone thing!!!! I had mechanic "X" broke from that habit the 1st day when he came out w/ me.!!! I heard from other mechanics how he was.. "That phone STAYS in the truck until we get back TO THE TRUCK.." I thought he was gonna cry.. & he looked like a heroin addict all day, lookin for a fix..Lol
I think we're all guilty of the phone thing to be honest. Once in a while I'll send a text or 2 if its super important. 99% of the time the personal phone stays in the lunch box.
Mine stays on one of the service truck doors with some tools i check it on ocassion i rarely hear it ring over the noise of the job site , we have company radio so if its truck related problem comes over the radio i grab my phone cuz a call will be coming shortly
I'm not that old but I have always been one for a large computer screen. I don't even like to use a laptop. So looking at things through a phone feels like looking through a keyhole to me. I leave it alone other than to answer real phone calls until I get back to the office. I know what you mean about the heroin addict thing. I've met that guy.
If anyone is expecting a cell phone " Text Message " back from me it could be 25 to 30 years before I bet back to ya .
HAHA he was probably checking his PAYPAL BALANCE LOL
Having a phone is OK depending on who the mechanic is. A good friend of mine is a mechanic and fixed some wiring on my Cat. He forgot his magnetic light so rested his phone on the brake pedal to use the light for the camera. Don't ask me how you turn it on. There's so much you can do with phones now that talking is only the simplest thing to use it for. If someone is talking or texting all the time, then tell them to leave it in the truck or don't even bring it to work. I can't count how many times I've seen people yapping away holding up other people or just being loud and annoying where I wanted to grab their phone and throw as far away as I could. Worst was when I working at a counter with other people in line and half way through they take a phone call and walk away to talk for 5 minutes or more instead of just saying they'll call the person back. You don't want to delete the stuff on the screen or what you're in the middle of but you feel like taking their phone and smashing it.
The cameras are amazing for trying to see where you can't quite fit.
Yeah John , young fellers have to learn somehow ? In a business the billing stays the same regardless how old the wrench is or who he had to help out to complete the job . Anyone that's ever had to write a pay check out to an employee will understand it . Yep , the old fellers will have to help out & aid a young guy starting out in the trade . Aint that how life works for the most part ?
td25c, I guess I don't understand the logic in your post. A newbie making half the hourly wage of a journeyman is getting less than half the loaded cost of that employment. It's another reason end users don't trust dealer shops and those same shops can't find and keep quality people. As far as the newbies learning from the "old fellers", we have already left.
I see a lit of the more experienced hands having a harder time with all the emission stuff to the point they start throwing parts at it and boy does that get expensive One problem I see with the younger guys is they have a trade school paper and think that equals years of experience and therefore wont learn things the first time or three times One things for sure tho prices wont get cheaper
I think some 1st year apprentices are the worst. They finish their 1st year training after 6-8 weeks in school and when they get back in the shop think they know it all. I had one guy that thought I was supposed to be his apprentice when I was the journeyman. Let him try a short cut one time and didn't take too long before he realized it wouldn't work. I think that humbled him some and he started to listen to me a little more. You have to know how to do things the long way before you start trying to take short cuts. That said sometimes a new guy will have a good idea. You shouldn't dismiss it just because he's new at the trade.
My son in law worked for me for 5 years, he was in his late 20's at the time. He was constantly on his phone between jobs which I didn't really mind since it was drive time. What I did realize was the fact that he had no idea where we went to get parts even though he had been there 1000 times with me. If I said " Go to X co." he had no idea how to get there. He dam could sure catch a huge fish on that fishing game he played all the time! LOL
I cant count how many times I said that exact same thing, Dave..
Sorry John , will try to elaborate on it . Went to work at a truck & equipment shop when I was 20 . Smaller independent shop had 4 to 5 wrenches parts guy & service manager . Had went through trade school prior and thank God we had a great teacher . 73 year old retired service manager from an International dealership . Old Navy man as well . Sure helped prepare us for the wrenching world . Thanks Keith ! Back at the truck shop …. Got hired on and business owner would " feel out " what you were capable of after a few day's . If he was happy ya got to stay . He would also step in at times to interject his opinion when needed , or even jump in & lend a hand wrenching to finish a job quicker . Myself being the 20 year old knucklehead new guy was capable of allot at the time but would also get stumped & need to yell at " Boss Glen " for his advice . Job got billed the same even though I was green but the key factor was Glen keeping a close eye on everyone . After all it was his show . And he was the oldest wrench in the shop at age 37 . Man …. At the time I thought that was pretty old ! Owe a lot to " Instructor Keith " & " Boss Glen " .
td25c, I think we all had our mentors in the days when we were young. Issue now days is that there are few 35 to 45 year olds now and nearly no 50 to 65 year olds to serve that purpose. There were lots of Vietnam vets in the seventies, no one brought much talent into the trade in the eighties and nineties and only an occasional newbie in the auts. Now I see shops with twenty something newbies and the thirty plus guys are in the trucks. The apprenticeship programs are dead, the trade school teachers are the people who couldn't hack the trade and have little to no ethics. If ever there was a time to start some kind of value billing, it should be now.
Yeah John , " Boss Glen " had a pretty good apprenticeship program . It lasted for 3 day's . After that you was either in or out as it should be in a business Ya got 3 day's new guy ………. Show us what ya got to bring to the table . LOL
I'm glad you made the grade
Oh Man ! I sure had a lot of help along the way . Was fortunate to get to work around some sharp cat's & pick up some ideas . On a good note " Boss Glen " retired last year at age 65 . He's more than likely finishing a golf game at this time in the evening . Cooler of barley soda in the back of the golf cart . Its amazing once a person gains that mechanical skill how many different directions it can take them in the trades . The wrenching , welding , problem solving . Skills you take with you through life in different areas . I never even thought about the Equipment Appraisal aspect . The appraiser will need an idea on the machines condition , it's weak & strong points and what's it going to cost to repair it ? Who better than a seasoned wrench to make the appraisal . They could rattle those numbers off the top of the head from experience .
IPhones are the bane of the world, they are handy as hell but in the wrong hands the most distractive destructive to time device ever built. I use mine for the camera and Google for information or maps otherwise the damn machine is off and in the passenger seat. will make hands free calls as feel a need and receive calls from my current employer on plans changes. I will NOT text while driving, I will photo the idiot doing stupid **** in front of me, I have added a dash cam in the truck for those morons that lane dive in front of loaded semi's.
The funny thing is the GlassDoor is saying equipment mechanics only make $46,000 per year: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/heavy-equipment-mechanic-salary-SRCH_KO0,24.htm That doesn't seem right. According to this survey by Construction Craft, in 2015, equipment mechnics were making around $57,000 per year: https://www.constructionequipmentgu...aries-stack-up-new-study-has-the-answer/27976 I can't imagine it's gone down since then. Still, neither salary is very high. If they need technicians so badly, why don't they pay them more so that more people will enter the field?
Is a self feeding watermelon Karaya, growth demands feeding the entity so that it may feed others where as they get paid more and costs escalate then too the growth demands require MORE money to feed and be fed.
Remember something. The field guy can't read minds. When you say it's broke and don't elaborate, it's going to cost. If I have to go out on jobs and figure out whats happening that's going to get billed. It's the GIGO factor. I don't agree with the rate hike. From a dealer perspective, it's cuts the company out of the good work like hydraulic hose replacements and light bulb replacements to the jobs that no one wants to touch. The easy jobs are low liability. The blown up hydraulic pumps and transmissions that call for hours of cleanup are hard to sell to the customer because of the hours of labor. There will be bill arguing. I've had customers tell me they like my work but they won't pay for my labor because i'm too expensive. That creates pressure on me and the guys I work with because we do care about our customers. We end up running mach 9 trying to finish a job under budget because we know the customer has limited funds. Most of the field hands I know care a lot about what they do and want to do the best. Many of the guys I work with will call customers and preorder parts in order to speed up their response time. I've seen the other that have been mentioned in this post and it is frustrating because it becomes all field mechanics. I am always aware of how much it is costing whom ever I am working for and I try to work as efficient as I can. At the current labor rates, I'm not efficient enough. I'm 43 and I am one of the old guys in field service. There are some new prospects, but not many. I guess a key note in this is if you want the bill to stay low, make sure you give as much information as you can before the mechanic comes out. The less they have to figure out, the less you will pay in the long run.
I agree w/ you for the most part.. BUT THEN.. you have the other end of that scenario.. the customer who KNOWS whats wrong w/ it.. & insists you replace THAT part.. & stands there screaming & yelling because YOU want to diagnose the problem.. On 1 hand I hate that & on the other, I love it.. Because I'M not leaving the jobsite until "I" determine the problem and the cause & the correct action to take.. & when I find a dirty filter or a pinched rubber line or a supply pump that isn't working, instead of yanking off an injection pump & spending their 1,500.00 bill & watching the look on their face is priceless.. But is THAT ever appreciated?? NO, No it isn't.. THEN all you hear about is "Well, the last guy that was out here, said"..
That whole "the last guy who was out here" bs drives me nuts. If the other guy was so awesome, why did they call me? Ugh. I charge 95 shop, 130 field, 50 drive time. I don't charge mileage.
You'll short yourself by not charging more per hour drive time AND not charging mileage. I have one job site 186 miles each way and 3 hours drive time normal traffic flow. @ $50.00 per hour drive time rate would equal $300.00 minus $167.00 (42 gallons) for fuel cost equals $133.00 for 6 hours of drive time. If you have heavy traffic congestion, charge drive time @ $95.00 per hour and minimum $2.50 per mile (dealer charges $4.53 per mile) Current eLog regulation 12hrs on duty; gives me 6 hour window to do the repairs! eLog reg isn't working out for dealers or independents. Motels and additional expenses for the customers!
I agree, I don't understand charging less for driving. It is the most unproductive thing we do. Every minute you are in that truck you are eating gas and tires and wearing out very expensive parts and causing the need to buy a whole new one. Whatever you want to do more of, charge less for that. So if you charge less for driving....
I don't keep log books, but you should be allowed 14 hours on duty, and 11 hours driving, before a 10 hour rest period. Those rules were around before e-logs. 3 hours would be about the max before you get into diminishing returns. Any more than that and I would figure on an overnight stay. Hotels are cheap relative to the other expenses being discussed here.
I think we should charge more for travel time, as it’s the most liability. This year I went up to $125.00 per hour for all time whether driving, shop or field. I’m still at least $25.00 per hour under the dealers. I don’t feel that I’m ever as efficient as I would like to be. I have been wanting to have a sleeper on my service truck for a long time. So many times I end up several hours from home and work until 10:00 P.M. trying to finish up. Then the little mountain towns don’t have a room available. I have a really nice K100, Kenworth I’m thinking about stretching and putting my service body on, for such an occasion.