so we just bought a brand new skid steer we went with a kubota just because I liked the financials on it. I went an hour out to purchase the machine because my local dealer was about 15k higher on the machine and the payment was about 120 higher a month. They took it personal but to me it’s just business I called 4 Kubota dealerships within an hour and they were all higher then all of them and they wouldn’t budget on price at all. So I guess that’s the question I have at what point is it screw your local dealer because they are higher then everyone else or you support “local”
$15K is a big number!! It would seem to me they ought to be within a few hundred of each other or at least want to work with you for your business. Have you bought from the local dealer before or is this the first opportunity?
Yea, I am all about supporting the local dealer, but there has to be respect from both parties. 15K higher on a skid steer is ridiculous and to the point of being disrespectful. I have used one dealer for the majority of my new purchases during the last almost 30 years. I still price check them, and call BS in the service dept when it is due. I also help them sell machines, tell them who is interested and so forth, mutual respect, trust, but verify. If my dealer was 15k higher on a ssl for no good reason, 30 years or not, I would not buy from them and they would know exactly why.
The dealer who gave you a $15,000 discount is who you should be loyal to.
Did they not even attempt to match it? Or add some incentives
15K is a lot for a small business. My old company dropped the regular dealer on this last batch of new trucks, 3-three axle and 7-four axle. Quoted a 7K difference each on 10 trades and 6K on overall price. Labrador Retrievers are loyal, people are not and shouldn't when it comes to costs.
I’ve bought a tractor and a zero turn from them along with 80% of my hand tools. Now I’ll say I’ve been a tire kicker out there before to so maybe they thought I was doing it this time to but still
Well here’s the thing to my local dealer is suing the dealer I got it from because they are selling it at msrp vs markup
Plan on it they are an hour away called them because the final drive has a leak on it and they are sending someone out no fuse no problem or nothing
Nope I went to 4 dealers one was 5k cheaper and I asked them to price match that one before I called the other two they told me I better go buy from them then. So called the other two the one was 15k cheaper so went with them
I’m not brand loyal or anything but id rather use the local dealer but I anit trying to make it where I feel like im getting shafted
What I was thinking too. That's a difference of a machine being $60,000 or $75,000!
90 vs 76k
As far as Kubota goes, I buy *most* of my equipment from our local dealer but not always. I have a good working relationship with them and they understand this. I do buy all my parts, fluids/filters, and accessories there regardless of where I bought the machine. I have bought a CTL, 5-ton mini ex, compact tractor and several implements and attachments there in the past 3yrs. I also have bought equipment from a couple other dealers about an hour away. When shopping for a new machine I'll call every dealer within 100-150mi and get the best price possible. Then I'll go back to my local dealer and see if they can match it or beat it, usually they can or at least come close. If they're better or reasonably close I'll go with them. As for pricing, I have never paid MSRP for a piece of Kubota equipment or even close. If you shop around and drive a hard bargain you can usually get at ~10% off MSRP based on the Kubota build your own website price. I have gotten as much as 13% off MSRP on Kubota equipment over the year.
My only concern with stepping out of my local market is field service, I add travel in to my warranty and I was told that is a dealer option not the manufacturer. I call them out for squeaks and rattles. They may be blowing smoke, I will dig deep in to this when it comes time to upgrade. But I just bought out my lease and put a transferable aftermarket market (through the dealership) for 5 years 1000 hours power train and hydraulic. I was going to order a new machine but it doubled my payment and it was near $100k for something that doesn't make me anymore money than the machine I have now. So I bought the grader blade instead
Well like I said before when the one dealer was 5k cheaper the payment was like 20 dollars cheaper and when I asked if that would match it they wouldn’t budge so I called the next dealer. Then luck gave it saw a Facebook post for the dealer I bought the machine from and they were just that much cheaper. I can’t imagine asking them to go 15k lower if that wouldn’t budge on 5k.
In North Carolina everything is still so spread far apart so most dealers from my town are 45-1 hour no matter so I think most dealers cover wherever if it’s reasonable here
But we are enjoying this machine
Reminds me back in the '90's when Perimeter Bobcat in Atlanta was selling skids way cheaper than our local dealer. IIRC they got in trouble for that too. Congrats on the new machine!
Yeah our local dealer is suing that dealer but I don’t quite understand how you can sue a dealer for selling at msrp? But it’s a nice machine definitely a lot quieter then my takuchie
$15K difference is way too much to ignore. The only way I can see the local dealer winning a lawsuit is if the other dealer isn't an authorized dealer. I could see maybe a $2K difference between dealers but some dealers have fancy buildings and fancy company vehicles they have to pay for. The sales people make a big difference and some try to swindle you.
Yeah, dealership business models are weird in general. If it's anything like pickup trucks, some dealerships are trying to make only nickels on selling the trucks so they can make dollars on service plans and warranty work. And it's interesting because of how each dealership records the value of each piece of equipment. For instance, if there is a new truck sitting on the lot for a while, like 3 months or more, the dealership starts to eat the holding cost of the truck just sitting there so they they have to raise their breakeven price on it. But if I special order that exact same truck and it gets delivered in 6-8 weeks, I can easily pay 3-6% less for it than the same truck sitting outside on the lot because of no holding costs, no dealer work, etc. And the dealership 'makes' more profit. It's not the rule but it's pretty common...and weird.
Probably has to do with the contract/agreement they have with Bobcat as a dealership. Protected sales area and such.
Well both are dealers once just been around 20 some years and the other just started 7 years ago
In my town it’s basically known as your better to shop out of town then in town because everything is higher here for some odd reason
Well they are an hour away and all the Kubota dealer ships in central North Carolina are independent owned it’s not like the cat dealer
Sany has this, when I was looking at my mini my local spot didn't have one and I was going to buy from a dealership in Iowa (about 3 hours from me) they said they wouldn't sell to me unless I had a local address, and likely wouldn't get financing if all my business stuff didn't match. Sitech must not have this kind of set up because our local Sitech "Central" pisses people off daily and I know several people that buy their grade controls from Sitech "Mid States" also in Iowa
Seems Sitech is good at that across many regions.
Suing the other dealer? Lesson learned should not tell the azz well,( well is a hole in the ground) dealer who the good dealer was. And I'd be telling them I'm never using you again, and telling my buddies too. Oh and I'll be back for your bankruptcy sale. This one allways gets em very mad. Told my brother to tell that to a crap outfit years ago, and yes we showed up for the auction like 2 or so years later, and the items were still there and got em for the right price.
I think our cat dealer is like that it’s two companies for North Carolina
Well my local dealer asked me why I dint tell them……. I told them when someone was 5k cheaper. My favorite was them telling them if I bring the paperwork up there and it shows they are 15k cheaper they would give me 15k. I’m way ahead of letting everyone know about the pricing. Yeah part of their lawsuit is saying them having lower prices will steal their customer base and make them go bankrupt. I feel like the simplest answer to that would be have lower prices
Is the more expensive dealership huge and the other one smaller? Like we have a lot of overhead to cover so we need bigger mark ups?
….. no it’s actually the opposite our local dealer is small and more expensive and the other one is huge they told me they are the 2nd highest selling Kubota dealership in Nc
With those prices I bet. Not trying to make your month on a single transaction is a motto we should all live by
How do you know so much about the lawsuit? I can see where dealers have an exclusive territory their sales people have to sell in but they can't stop a customer from going outside the territory or even ocompare prices. Something is really wrong when one dealer is about 15% less expensive for the same machine. Maybe the bigger dealer brings in a lot more machines and gets a better price on them?? Quantity sales over the highest margins. Kubota could also have construction and Ag dealers selling the same machines in the same territory the same as JD does with skid steers and smaller construction equipment.
Sells guy told me after I told them how much cheaper they were. He then told me my local dealer was sued in 2020 for price gouging. I think a lot of it is my local dealer is commission based sells vs salary. But either way it’s ridiculous my family has been skeptical of our local dealer since 2013
Every job I bid I try to make a certain minimum as long as I do that I’m happy but if it’s happens I make more I’m just as happy.
I have a daily minimum that I shoot for, if it is only going to be a couple of hours on site I will do half day. I bid almost everything by the foot and try real hard to stay clear of the T&M
That guy told you a wild tale. One private party can't sue another party in civil court for price gouging. If that was the case the civil courts would be jam packed. Price gouging is a criminal matter with charges being brought by the state.
I’d believe it but at the end of day that was 6 years ago during peak covid I think everyone was pricing gouging that was any dealership
Time and material bidding is a straight pain
Price fixing is illegal too but can be hard to prove in some cases. The price of gas is a good example. A lot of stations charge the same and it's not necessarily the lowest they could sell it. If station A gets away with over charging the others follow suit. If you're lucky you can find a lower price. I don't get how gas instantly goes up in price for whatever reason. There's thousands and thousands of gallons already refined sitting in storage tanks. Fuel that is already refined shouldn't be subject to the higher price. When the storage tanks are depleted then there could be a price increase. Price hikes before a long weekend should be illegal too. Diesel is the biggest rip off of anything! No way it should cost more than gasoline. Gov't. won't do anything because they make more in fuel taxes.
I think diesel here hit 5 dollars a gallon today and in my storage yard it was about time to refill the bulk tanks. Gonna love that bill
Better now than in a couple of months, most likely.
You don't know much about sales then. AG and construction have been that way here for 20 years. There are some circumstances, but if you want to buy a new Caterpillar, you're buying it from Butler, through your region's rep. Same with Deere construction, it will come from RDO, through your guy. Ag is a little different, if you had purchased a new CaseIH machine from a different than your local before this rule, you would have them, and your local. Deere AG is the only one I'm aware of where you can buy new from pretty much anyone you choose, and it's a cutthroat business.
Nobody owns your business and I can't stand people that act like it. I'd be more inclined to never go to a place when they get upset when you didn't buy from them,they won't make you happy when it matters anyway.
Grove has always been that way with the crane parts. I'm stuck with Kirby Smith, and the cranes is kind of a side line for them, they are really a komatsu dealer. They are even difficult about what branch I buy through, they have st. Louis, Kansas City and Tulsa, that are all the same distance from me, and at one time or another, we've been in all their territories. I'll call in and get the " your now in kc or Tulsa territory" runaround. And none of them are capable of calling a different branch. I don't care, I just want my parts. Link belt is a little more of a free for all
Kubota has at least 2 dealers within an hour from each other here. They both sell Ag and construction. I also know some brands have strict territories. My dad had the exclusive territory for Mott flail mowers and sold almost half of the first 100 Interstator models made. He was good friends with Elmer Mott the owner. A company in Quebec was selling a small articulated tractor with a front mounted Mott mower. The mower is designed to be pulled on a 3pt. hitch. The mowers have a full width roller on the back so when mounted backwards don't do a quality cut because the roller folds the grass over before its cut. Mr Mott flew his own plane and came to visit my dad. My dad informed him that he couldn't compete with the Quebec company because they were selling the mowers at less than his cost in a package deal. Mr Mott didn't like that the mowers mounted backwards didn't make his mowers look good but more importantly this Quebec outfit was undercutting one of Motts biggest dealers with exclusive territory. My dad told me Mr Mott picked up the phone and called the factory and told them to immediately stop all orders to the Quebec firm. That's how exclusive territory works but it can't always stop a customer from going outside an exclusive territory. In the case of the OP the $15K price difference is insane!
I have worked at five major equipment dealers starting as a floor sweeper and working up to a service manager and back down again. I settled at the last dealer as the used equipment appraiser. I have a few insights on how an equipment dealership works. First of all the manufacturers set up defined territories of which dealerships may conduct their business in. There are specific rules and penalties for selling new machines out of your assigned territory. Under some brands a dealer can sell new outside of their territory but there is a penalty for doing that, usually a percentage of the sale that kills commissions and profits. Other brands bring on the kiss of death to their franchise if the edict is violated that may include loss of the franchise. In my experience there are no rules on selling used equipment out of territory. New parts sales work the same way as new machines. I can't purchase a new Cat or Komatsu or John Deere part from another territory and have it direct shipped to my door. It has to go through my local dealer in some manner. Second issue is pricing by individual dealers. Number one issue is that the sales force never actually knows the acquisition costs of any piece of gear. There are many costs associated with a dealer's purchase for stock or rental markets which are hidden in the accounting. The sales force is given a list price and a set of guide lines of how they can deal with their assigned customer or territories. Most will try to impose on their customer that they are dealing on the customer's behalf but only inexperienced buyers buy into that. The asking price at most places I've worked is just a starting point. Last place I was an employee, the sales force automatically told potential customers that they would provide ten percent discount on a new or used machine. The savvy buyers would start at twenty percent below that. All that also depends on who the customer is. If you are a thirty million dollar yearly business, you will be treated much differently than a five million dollar business. At times prices may depend on business potential and competition along with possible factory support on pricing. Joe Blow putting in a new mine and needing twelve million dollars worth of machinery for a twenty year life cycle of a project might get a lot of help on the pricing. Douglas Fir landscaping looking to purchase a mini excavator to jump into a construction market isn't likely to get any help. With equipment, size matters a lot. Dealer sales reps can make a difference in how customers are treated. A veteran rep with fifteen years experience and fifteen million in total sales in a territory is going to have more influence on management than a two year newbie working a crap territory and getting one point five million in total sales. The statements on service and parts departments are off track by quite a bit. The three departments of any dealership are run as separate profit centers. They are all trying to screw each other over because there is only so much money to be made on the sale of new machines and each department wants more. I call it funny money because it is all treated toward the bottom line of each department. Street markups which is Joe Blow bringing his machine to the dealership is usually subjected to set markups usually of thirty percent from the parts department and thirty percent on labor. Those two percentage points are additive and this is real revenue. The sales department in most dealerships only get a ten percent discount on parts and service. The pre-delivery inspections and dealer add ons are the best way for parts and service departments to steal profit and commissions from the sales forces. This funny money does nothing but increase pricing to the customer. My final point I'll make about in this venue is that the customer has a lot to do with the prices that are given to them. A calm easy going and knowledgable businessman will get concessions just based on how they treat their dealership. An abrasive personality that tries to cheat the dealership on every transaction and whines about the dealership to all the people he knows with every breath will usually get smile from the sales force and sales reps bragging to piers about how they are going to sell this company into bankruptcy. I detail how the industry works in my two books on the subject that are available on Amazon. They can be obtained by clicking on the link. https://www.amazon.com/~/e/B0742Q36JL
Well said John. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. This hit home with me - This is the kind of customer I try to be and I think it has paid off for us. We are a very small contractor but get treated very well by our dealer. I've been a customer for 24 years and have bought primarily Cat iron during that time. Sure I've bought a lemon (TH460B) as well as very reliable iron that's 22 years old and still working part time in the field. More than once they have went to bat for me and more than once I accepted things I could have bitched about but didn't. It's a two way street. This is also spot on - I know several guys around me that fit this description. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Well, pardon the crap out of me if I wish that a man buying a lawn mower could get the exact same level of customer service that the guy buying a couple of 395 excavators gets. I'm sure there was a time in the past that that was the case, but certainly hasn't been for well over 50 years.
Life ain't "fair" neither is equipment buying and selling.
I'll agree with John C & Shimmy. There is a grey area that a buyer needs to hover in to get decent service and sale price, without having to get on his knees. But If a dealer is a known hostile business in as far as zero compromise usually not always they will get a visit from the twentieth floor, and that attitude can be found in chain franchise stores. One is great to deal with and the one in the next town under the same shingle not so. Years ago a car dealer I worked for had one of the best relationships with customers since it started in business in 1909 selling model T's. A long linage of patriarchs in the same family created that. When the last one fell to his death changing a light bulb on the show room floor {He was that type no work was below him} everything changed. His wife and sons took over, the business was in a steady decline. Internal departments were feuding with each other over internal sales such as John explained. It finally ended when the brass from F--D headquarters descended from Detroit. In the end the old company controller was assigned total operation manager. But it took years to build back what was destroyed in two years. Once a old customers trust is lost it takes 10 times as much work to retrieve. The sales person who comes right out and says {I can tell you what it will do And I can tell you what it won't do--is being straight up and knows his product.
I wonder if the OP's machine was a year old model or a demo machine or something? That might explain why such a huge difference in price. A good sales person treats all the customers the same until a customer does something to change the relationship. Service goes a long way too. There has to be good service as well as a good sales person. There was a lawn service here started by a school teacher. He bought a couple ex-city Toro mowers at an auction and expected he should get a good discount on parts/service because he had 2 or 3 well used mowers. He ordered a rotary broom for one of the mowers. It would take a few weeks to get one in because it was for an older model mower. A couple weeks later while the broom is in transit he cancels the order because he found another broom for a couple hundred bucks cheaper from a residential lawn and garden dealer and wants his $500 deposit back. They reluctantly gave it back. The next time he went in for parts there was another customer who they asked if they should put the parts on his account. Yes. This guy picked up his parts and they told him it was COD. He then has the gall to ask why it can't go on his account like the other customers parts were. Because the other customer doesn't cancel orders after they're shipped! This idiot thought he was a big time customer with a few old half worn own ex-city mowers. The Toro commercial dealer could care less if this idiot was a customer. A golf course that's a long time customer or the city buying $250-$500K of equipment in one order gets a much better deal than a bozo who bought a couple worn out used machines. Some people think they're special though!
I have to disagree with you on this one with respect to new equipment. It was explained to me if a dealer wants to sell out of their territory mother Deere will withhold the marketing, advertising, and any promotional money that is normally available on a piece of equipment. You can still buy it, but its impossible for a dealer to be competitive without those funds. Now if you have a knock down drag out battle with your local dealership to the point that mother Deere steps into the argument and you swear to the factory man that you will never buy another piece of Deere equipment from that dealership chain again, Deere will fix you up with another dealership chain (if you are a significant customer). Of course, every Deere dealer has been told they are either a seller or a buyer with respect to the dealership itself, so your crappy dealer may buy out your better dealership next week.
There's also salesman that comes right out and tells me, as an operator for 30 years, there's no way he's ever going to know the machines as well or as in depth as I do, but he will get answers to my questions, which he does every single time. Even though I've only bought one machine from him, I've gotten him at least 3 other sales to rancher's looking for loaders, and he's told me he appreciates it every single time. I only wish I'd have been a buyer in this line of work 40 years ago to see how it compares to today.
Not heavy equipment related but I get great service at all the home Depot any where in my metro area, Lowe's on the hand is a crap shoot. I have a Lowe's right down the street from my house but the customer service is horrible so I drive 10 minutes past there to go to the HD. I like to check out at the customer service desk when I am buying something on that end of the store. Home Depot step right up sir are checking out or returning? Lowe's will have 3 people standing at customer service doing absolutely nothing, " oh this is for returns only, you can go right over there to self checkout. No matter how much of a hurry I am in I never use self checkout any where ever
Well, I can tell you two things. First, we have 3 different Deere Ag dealerships within 50 miles of me, and 2 more within 100. That makes FIVE dealerships. Second, there are customers that have bought new from 3 different dealers in the last 5 years, I don't know for positive, but pretty likely all 5 in the last 15. If you buy enough iron, it's pretty clear you can pretty much buy from whoever you choose, Deere is not going to stand in the way of millions of dollars in new sales by one customer. It's complete bulls hit compared to us guys buying yellow iron. We have ONE dealer for each color in this state.
I think there are other factors that matter. Loyalty is important. Like I mentioned somewhere else, I have bought from the same CASE Construction store for 30 years. I show them my loyalty. Through spreading their dealer info on my social media. I help them sell machines, but providing my machine as a demo at times or making my self available to attend a customer demo. I try when possible, I give them a hand. I keep my bill current. They I show up, they know my money is good. If I need the shop to quickly get my machine up and running. They do, if I heed other
Good sales people take advantage of factory training and study the machines they sell. Unfortunately a lot of newer sales people just treat it as a 9-5 job and not as a career. Selling isn't easy but the best sales people sell on commission so product knowledge and customer service is very important to them. They also get a good reputation in the industry.
Funny thing about all this loyalty. I always bought any Cat engine parts for trucks through Freightliner or Kenworth, but mainly Freightliner. Because I always got a better price than directly through Cat. And many times the dealer parts runner would stop by Cat on their way to pick up the parts to fill the order. Just wasn't much reason to go direct.
Ag equipment buyers are in a very enviable position in your area then. There are only about 5 Deere ag dealers in the state of Kansas, and rumors claim there is another consolidation in the works. Over the last 40+ years I've seen dozens of dealers in this state get bought out and become part of a conglomerate. 40 years ago Deere told salesmen their biggest competitor was not another brand, but the Deere dealership in the next county. Mother Deere has been working hard to eliminate that competition.
To Shimmy1's point there used to be even more. The town I went to high school in ND (Wimbledon) had a good sized JD dealer and closed in 2015. They also had what they called the set up shop where they assembled implements. That town in its city limits, at its heyday had like 2000 people. Probably half that now. There were Deere dealers everywhere and it kept towns like this alive. Companies like RDO and Titan bought up most of these rural dealers of both colors and they consolidated locations which I think was what corporate wanted. They would rather deal with a huge organization like RDO, then dozens of mom and pop run stores. More stability I would think. However a lot of towns, especially in that part of the country depended on that dealership.