I am only 13 now but I am looking ahead since I will be in high school next year. I am thinking about going to college and getting a degree in Construction Management. But is it worth it if I really only want to be a operator? Would it help me get a job?
It can help you get a better paying job if you´re willing to apply yourself.
I agree. Without the degree and the desire to just stay at an operators position/payscale, you're subjecting yourself to the "food chain" as the company I am with refers to it as. I always felt being an operator who applies himself and is proud of his work would speak volumes, but I'm finding out in today's world, in certain areas anyways, that good working habits and a percentage of self-pride is no longer an asset. At least where I'm working. If the foreman or superintendant has a bad attitude from the beginning, then no matter how good a job you try to do still doesn't seem to be good enough. Possessing any extra knowledge or skills in management, layout, etc. would definitely land you better opportunities. Go for it!
what kind of construction management degree are you looking for? Theres the type you can get from a trade school in 2 years, or there is the type i am going after where you graduate in 4 years with a Civil Engineering Degree....this type allows you to be a pretty important person to a company, because not only do you have the management skill but you also have the ability to change and stamp plans on a jobsite if something isn't working right...you could easily be a superintendent with either degree which allows you to run any equipment if one of the guys is off a day and you need to fill in for him...you will be on a higher pay scale because you went to school as well
I have a Bachelors of Science in Construction Engineering. My current position is a Project Superintendent for a developer. We are a small comapny, but I run the projects, mostly residential/light commercial. I do everything from run equipment, to make phone calls, scheduling, estimating, coordination, safety, etc. My degree has gotten me where I am. I started as a Asst. Super, alot of that job involved running equipment, managing materials, etc. Many larger companies are looking for people with degrees. In this day and age, you need educated people to run the jobs. Laborers, etc, are easy to find, but people with education and experience to manage and run a job are in high demand but hard to find. Dont limit yourself to just running equipment, or you will be stuck in a position with not alot of room to advance. With a degree, you can start at the bottom and work your way up to the top. You will even have the knowledge and experience to run your own company if you choose. Besides, at 13 I didnt know what I wanted to do with myself. I even started college in Mechanical Engineering, thinking I wanted to get into automotive work, and here I am, wearing workboots and a hardhat every day, building condos, and apartments. In high school, concentrate on sciences and math, and prepare yourself for college. The first 2 years of college are mostly general education classes, so you have time to decide once you start. You never know which direction the economy may turn, or what industries will be booming in 10 years.
Well I don't want to be the lazy boss standing around, just an operator. But I was looking at a 4 year degree. @ Landrvrnut22, I have been operating equipment since I was 5 I know what I WANT to do. Parents still have a s tick in their butt about me being a lawyer or something... Although I am good at techy stuff. But I like operating better.
you gotta do what you love to do, but at the same time you have to do what will always be in demand too...being an operator you are subject to winter layoffs and short hours when the work slows...with something as simple as a 4 year degree you can still run equipment but the company values you a lot more so chances are you won't get laid off or work short hours because they know its a lot easier for a person with a degree to go find a another job so as long as you are doing your job they will keep you around....plus going to school for a CE degree is really neat, I have never known so much about the small things that go on around a jobsite Landrvrnut22...do you have your PE in construction management? I heard they just recently created the C.M. "engineering title"...just wondering if you did it?
I am not a PE yet. I have to have 3 more years of work experience before I can sit for the test. The state of Ohio requires a 4 year degree and 7 years of work experience before you can take the PE exam. I am taking the CPC (Construction Professional Certification) test this fall however. Agent, you may want to be an Operator, but at 35 when your back is gone out, you won't want to be an operator. I was in the same position, I started operating at around 6 years old. But I looked at my dad's friends who have been in construction all their lives, and their backs are gone, knees are gone, and have no pension. That is why I opted for a management position. I dont have to do alot of the physical labor to perform my job well. Less wear and tear on my body, more room for advancement, complete benefits and much higher pay. And when I get old, I can play project manager from the comfort of the office, than running a dozer in January in the snow. As a Superintendent, I still get to operate when the need comes up, but I am involved with every aspect of the job, from the site clearing, to foundation, framing, roofing, mechanicals, landscaping, finishes, and punchlist. Every problem, solution, material, subcontractor comes through me. It is a huge responsibility and a Super will make or break a project. I work 10+ hours a day, but the hours fly by, and there is little time to get bored. Why waste 5 years, and thousands of dollars of education just to push levers the rest of your life. There is nothing wrong with being an operator, but you have the potential to do more in construction management and still operate heavy equipment when the need comes up.
OK - couldn't let that one go. Agent, I will give you a break because you are a youngster that lacks the experience and knowlege to understand what it takes to run a modern day construction project. I myself thought the same, many moons ago, but oh how life changes that. I have a small commercial/residential building and excavating company. Unless you live in a cave, isolated from the outside world, you have some sort of understanding how bad the real estate market is. The pressure and strain of making the ends meet, keeping everyone employed and the bills paid is a challenge at best. Just the other day I was on one of our commercial building projects for a national chain resturant where we were acting as a subcontractor for the site work and building framing, etc. The local electrical inspector (who I know pretty well) was there inspecting the electrical rough-in. He made the comment to me "I wish I had your job", now I was standing there watching everything that was going on - you know the " lazy boss standing around ". In reality I was thinking of how I was going to make payroll, pay for my equipment that was sitting still on another job, wondering when my recievables for this job would be in the mail, which guys would be laid off first, what equipment/land/buildings I could sell to raise some cash and worring about how high diesel prices were going. I looked the guy in the eye and told him "Brother you don't want my job." He sort of looked at me funny, realized that I was under alot of stress and went to look at the distribution panel. I long for the day of just running equipment, without worring about all the business BS. But life isn't that way. If you want to be just an operator and work for someone else, then you are at the whims of your employer. If you want something more out of life then you have to take a chance and risk everything you have earned so far. If you choose the latter, then it is a roller coaster ride that has risks and rewards - it's not for the faint hearted. If you choose to work for someone else, then your job is always at risk and your payscale is pretty much set. I myself have a Building Science degree from Auburn University. I am also a 3rd generation homebuilder. My dad pushed me to get a degree, always saying " you will have your degree to fall back on if things get really tough, it will give you a competitive edge". And he was very right.
Chico State has a good construction management program. That being said, in 4 or 5 years if you choose the college path be prepared to focus at whatever school you may attend. I have a buddy who graduated from Chico around 2001, and went to work for Granite which is a huge outfit here on the West coast. Just having a degree does not guarantee you a thing. He is one of the smartest, most humble people I know, hell he is even an eagle scout. He worked his ass off, and made a lot of money for Granite, but had a manager who milked him for all he was worth and paid him just enough to keep him around. He was just too quiet, and did not push hard enough for more money. It is not like a union job, you may need to fight, change employers and work your ass off to make as much or more than any of the operators you may have working on your jobs. But after 10 years or so you should be making a very good wage, and should have the ability to pick and choose where you want to live and work (within reason). Long story short, he got sick of begging for money. He now is a new construction manager for a electric utility out here on the west coast and has a secure $90K+ job. Personally I think most C.M. programs are probably the best bachelors program anyone with mechanical ability can choose, unless you are a serious math geek, then you may want to be an engineer. Here is the obvious stuff... Try to do well math, maybe do some pre-calc in high school. If you have problems, get help. You MUST learn the basics well. Do two years of a foreign language, it may or may not suck, but it is your key to a bachelors program. Try to get good grades, if you have some crackhead teacher, try to please them and just bite your tongue for a decent grade. Learn to do some things that you hate, the earlier you master this the easier everything will be. Do some things outside of your interests, trust me, you will have to take some classes that don't mean a dam thing to you in college. I flunked out of recreation 80. Try to get a good idea of what classes a major requires. Do these classes interest you? Do you have the ability and drive to do it when you graduate high school? If not, you may consider working for a year or two before school. Learn to work well with other people. Good luck, Peter
I am really glad someone started this thread. I will be transfering from a community college for the fall of 09 to ferris state for the CM program. For a few years I threw around the ideas fo being a operator, then to a crane operator ( I have a friend that makes real good money) , but fell on the the CM degree, because as everyone has said, its something else to fall back on.
I don't think it should be something to fall back on. Use the skills you learn or that investment for college is a turd in a picture frame on the wall.
I would like to qualify the term "something to fall back on". That doesn't mean you will not be using the vast amount of knowledge that you can learn from a CM type degree, but rather give you an edge over the competition. Example: I have a friend that is an estimator/asst. PM for one of the largest civil contractors in the state. He is sharp as a tack and can run Agtek (3D dirt software) like a pro. However, he lacks a 4 year degree and he has hit the ceiling with the company, regardless of how much he knows. The company only considers people for upper management that has at least a 4 year degree. While I do not agree with that logic, it seems most companies do.:beatsme I myself have been using a lot of the skills/knowledge I learned in college recently. We have made the rather quick switch from land development to commercial site prep and building. Project management, estimating, soils, safety, steel and reinforced concrete design, scheduling - all of these classes and the knowledge I learned, helps me everyday. Check it out http://www.cadc.auburn.edu/bsci/ I will reiterate what some other folks have said. Take all the math and physics courses you can in high school and learning Spanish is also a plus. You are a young man with an open future ahead of you - take advantage of that and learn everything you can as you go along- it will definetly pay off.
If you want to be a operator then be one: Having said that I started running equipment full time at 15. Some 25 years later I'm working on my degree and have about 7 classes left. So having fun is great but having a education is more important because it allows you the opportunity to pick and choose jobs and also allows you the opportunity to for expericence. So run some equipment but seriously consider getting your degree when you are young and have no real responsibilities! It will be a great investment and when you are old like me you can do other stuff besides go to work and school and pay bills.:Banghead I wish you the best of success in your desicion because I'm sure it will change along the way a you get older.
Thanks guys, I am looking at "planning" my high school classes to work towards it. If I can, they don't have allot of construction classes... Actually they only have one.
I agree soundly with a lot of the statements previously made. I am a licensed engineer with a civil engineering degree, business owner, and operator as needed in our company. I have found in my limited experience that all three "titles" are enhanced by the others, ie, the "whole is greater than the sum of the parts". I feel that i'm a more competent engineer because of my time in the seat. I excavate and treat a machine differently because of the company "bottom line" that's in the back of my mind. All that said, my recommendation echos what others may have already stated: 1. Get as much education in this life as you possibly can. If that opportunity presents itself through college or university training, then excellent. If through experience or the experiences of others, then excellent. Continue this process for as long as you live, in my opinion. 2. Be driven to excel in every arena of your life. Work toward being the safest, most efficient operator that you can become, and/or the most knowledgeable, genuine construction manager that inspires excellence in others. Bottom line: as a business owner involved in civil-type projects, my CE degree has been priceless.
Career Choices ? Young man, your being offered an abundance of advice. Follow your HEART , you got to be HAPPY in life with your line of work to be successful. Construction is like a war, being fought, with many moving fronts, nothing ever remaining the same, over time. Many successful CEO'S don't have degrees. Many Degreed people are totally unsuccessful for the amount of education. They are totally over educated. Morons ! Don't ever think you are going to fall back onto something else if you fail ! Your subconcious mind is already told you , failure is acceptable. Your doomed. If you follow that idea. Find an Objective or Goal and seek it forever. Like Dairy Farmers, Ironworkers, Airline Pilots, Astronauts,Etc. , recognize the ups and downs of the industry. Don't pad an education for in case of failure in one thing, to go onto something else. Strive to be sucessful and the very best in "your chosen lifestyle". That may even change as you get older. Operating Engineers is a quality life for those that choose to follow it. There are Union Pensions , Medical Care, Training Programs, etc . You might even consider the Military, Navy SeaBees, Combat Engineers in all the Armed Foreces. Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, all have them. Free Education on top of it. And I'm telling you from 38 years of experience, that no family member, or owner, or office pogue is ever going to help out, and make the job go better . They invariably interfer, in a well run job , and create chaos and turmoil. I've seen it ! It's hilarious ! The entire crew knows it. Sad to say that, but that is real life ! The professional Operator know how to do their work. When the job suffers , it is almost all the time because of the estimaters , stupidly underbidding. I seen lot of well bankrolled firms ($100 Million ) think they can out do the competition. Ha, Ha, LOL they failed big time !
I wasn't going to mention that due to the current status of our armed forces in the world. Exactly 22 years ago today I was in Great Lakes, Ill. getting my head shaved and getting ready to become a Sailor! I wanted to be a Seabee more than anything but they weren't open at the time and I needed to get on with life. 13 years later I got out and finally got married and right now finishing up my BA with the help of the G.I. bill. The world is an interesting place and at 13 I'm sure you see it as a large place but many here can and will concur the world is a pretty small place. So saddle up young man and give it a go because it is yours for the taking and I hope you'll get your dream of becoming an engineer. I admire your vision because at 13 I lived in a boy’s home and I had no vision other than getting out. Be the leader and make it happen no matter how much it hurts because with pain comes growth!
Well I am already operating some equipment now and then... I like equipment and would "love" to work with it for the rest of my life... But I am also good in technology and web design/programming and can make allot of money there but I don't really "like" it. :beatsme
so get a degree in computer science and go work for Cat, Case, or Deere and design their computer systems
But I don't want to do that. I could but I don't want to.. Anyway. Thanks for your answers guys, guess I'm going to college after high school.
CM1995 I also was given this lecture growing up by my father and I would have to say it's been some of the best advice ever. I also was just like you at your age all I wanted to do was operate, but I also wanted to be in charge of projects. I went to college and got a 4 year degree in CM. When I graduated I had 3 offers to go work for excavating/heavy highway contractors in supervision including one being Granite Construction. At the age of 22 I would have never been considered by one of this companies without a degree. My present job I do everything from operate, foreman, superintendant just depends on the work load or season, but they keep me busy year round unlike alot of operators. I would definately advice getting a degree of some sort, and getting all the education everybody else says. My number one advice would be at a young age get all the experience you can laboring and operating during the summer or when ever, with some real outfits and be a go getter. When I graduated employers all looked at my work experience at a young age. I lot guys I graduated with in CM had no construction experience except maybe the internships where the where assist's (errand boys). Plus having working experience will help gain respect from older works. At my currennt job we have a older foreman that hates young people with college degrees telling him what to do. My first year was on a large highway project and I didn't hardly ever run equipment. After that job I did a number of smaller job where I ran equipment, that older foreman saw me take a 300EX down the side of a river bank and work and seen I can get jobs down just as fast as him and now he's best buds with me Lifes full opportunites, good luck!
My father is a business man. Anyway, thanks for all the answers again, my parents said I can do what I want and have stopped pushing me to become a retarded lawyer. :notworthy ointhead
A Lawyer? Uhoh... Both my father and grandpa are businessmen. Grandpa got Civil Enignering/Land Surveying degrees decades ago and they're still valuable today as he not only consults us on our projects but also gives advice to his younger counterparts. My dad went to college for a few years but never graduated. However, he is probably tied for second for the most successful (financially) of his siblings because he followed the advice of his more-educated father and then took over the family business. Now I am getting postitioned to finish high school and proceed to college, where I plan to get a CE degree, and then take over the family business (and expand into excavating and construction, of course). Always make yourself ready to learn something and always do your best. This is probably why my father told me that he and grandpa are educating me more than my brother or any of my cousins: because I always made it look like I wanted to learn something new. Sure, it may get a bit boring with all the lecturing, but all of those random lessons make you open-minded to the world, opinions, and others' thoughts and ideas. Don't be afraid to ask your parents, grandparents, relatives, or others about their education and venture out into the world armed with knowledge and experience. In my opinion, get a college degree, it will be invaluable throughout your life. Companies will look first for those people who have degrees because they are most likely those who are more competent and intelligent. People will look up to you and years from now you can give your grandchildren lectures! (Hmmm...maybe some of it doesn't pertain to degrees but it's all good education advice that I've figured out or learned over the years.)
Yeah they wanted me to be a lawyer, or own a company, I said I would own my own construction company one day and be some millionaire that still sits on equipment all day. But I have been running equipment for 5 years now, what did they expect when they told that operator I could sit on his lap??? :beatsme
LOL Agree with the millionaire one...but until then we gotta start small like everyone else once did. I know I have to. And I haven't had a chance to run stuff yet...looking for a summer job with a friend of my dad's who may give an apprenticeship or something to me and let me operate/work on equipment...and direct traffic :spaz Probably not a good idea....
We could sneak onto a site real quite like, bring in 50 trailers, steal the equipment, repaint them all. And start a company. :guns :badidea But yeah, I have been running equipment since I was 6. But what did they expect saying yes I could. :beatsme But I already know allot of companies around here looking for operators.
"Umm...yeah, we got them all at a Ritchie Brothers aution...had the RB overhaul and everything." Yeah, although homebuilding is hurting, there are a lot of 60 and over complexes, road reconstruction, commercial/industrial projects going on and the companies are especially looking for those with a construction background and a related dgree. But I still can't convince my dad to get out of homebuilding! I guess it's what we supposedly do best (ummm...somewhat).