This new thread is being started at the suggestion of another member and my interest for anything Detroit Diesel. I would be glad to hear your experience owning, operating, or working on them. Of special interest to me is hearing from those that where good at working on them. I hear people say "not very many people know how to work on those anymore". Many of those that where working on these engines when they where common are getting older or are no longer with us. Would you be willing to pass on your knowledge to us younger ones before it is lost? I would also be interested in hearing history on them to. I realize not everyone has fond memories of them and I'll admit I may not either if I had run one all day for a long time. Maybe you will share in my fascination of a unique engine in the history of Heavy Equipment. Hope you enjoy!
Here is a fun discussion we had about 2-strokes, years ago. HeavyEquipmentForums
I'm reading thru that thread. Glad you showed that to me.
Has anyone had experience with the 149 series?
I worked on 149’s in the early 90’s, during my dealership days. The crab fleet would come to town to tender salmon seiners. We did maintenance on them, before they headed back across the Gulf.
It was long before the Deadliest Catch. With salmon, instead of crabs. When we ran out of fuel oil. We called the A-rabs.
Where they used mostly in boats?
One very real rule of thumb, don't idle one especially on highway. Many of the slobbering issues and wet stacking was attributed to idling. The best way is to perform walk around inspection of lights, tires first then start build air, as soon as it hits governor cutout hit the road. Inspecting for air leaks should be done at end of day. Most I've seen in years past that operated this way had way less issues with leaks/slobbering. It's a engine that likes to be run at full blower speed. One of the reasons it made a great stationary, working constantly is necessary.
Euclid used them in mine trucks. The TransAlta coal mine in Centralia Wa had some. But, I only saw them in boats.
Was the 149 the biggest series they made?
Depends on how you interpret the GM branding. EMD and the various versions of Detroit Diesel. Winton vs the Cleveland Diesel Engine Division of General Motors (GM), and where you draw the line between high speed and medium speed diesel engines. You could make the case that EMD and the Detroit engine lines are related because they are very similar. Or, not. EMD has a fab block, Detroits are cast. Mostly.
It’s fascinating how Detroit got scattered when Roger Penske purchased it. Some of it went to Emerson, Steward & Stevenson, MTU, and the dude in Pocatello. Some of it simply disappeared like the 8.2 Fuel Pincher. If someone owns the 8.2, they are too embarrassed to publicly acknowledge it. Export only engines are still a thing. Look at Stewart and Stevenson. Just a few years ago, they were manufacturing brand new Detroit 6-53 engines. Casting blocks and everything. The military and other governments still uses them.
It's certainly the biggest one I've seen in service. A nearby mine I worked at has a 16V149 in a shovel motivator. For the unfamiliar, it's a 7200V generator on wheels used to move electric rope shovels longer distances. Nobody knew what the engine was and the poor thing was fed a constant diet of multigrade oil. I was told "there's no such thing as a two-stroke diesel".
Penske wanted no part of anything to do with two stroke design, all of his effort was to build on a electronic 4 stroke overhead cam engine. He and his design team knew that overhead cam was the future in a inline six cylinder and he was correct. He wanted to remove the stigma of a dirty two stroke, to regain confidence in the market.
The EMD SD40 was a fun locomotive to run. Sounded like an outboard Evinrude and made great power. It was the pride of the fleet when I hired on. Old days, good times I remember.
The Alaska RR has a respectable fleet of SD70MACS with EMD 710 series engines. Great to stand near the tracks when they are pulling gravel cars for that 2-stroke fix.
Gotta buy that special 2-stroke oil for them. Zinc Free - EMD’s have silver wrist pin bearings.
Those were the days. What an absolute incredible success story and engineering masterpiece.
Was the 149 series ever used in locomotives, or was it to small? Tell me more about the EMD, Winston, and Cleveland's.
Winton was the US company that invented mass produced, 2-stroke diesels. GM purchased Winton, to later become Cleveland, to eventually become Detroit Diesel Division. Winton pretty much had the 6-71 designed when GM purchased the company. While all this happened, GM purchased a locomotive company called Electromotive which purchased engines from Winton. That is became EMD. But, it was also called Cleveland during that transition. Today, EMD is Progress Rail, which is owned by Caterpillar. Which is why Caterpillar stopped building and selling their own Locomotives engines and focused on Progress Rail EMD. I think a person needs to include Gray Marine in this discussion because they took the 6-71 Winton< Cleveland< Detroit engine and turned it into a marine engine and sold it under their brand. That’s how the military got involved and then WWII came along. There are plenty of books, articles and videos to watch on the subject.
HeavyEquipmentForums
Another great place to hear that "2 stroke symphony" was to visit an oil drilling rig in the 60s-70s. Mud pumps, draw works, generator trailer most had twin 6-71s. And then the pair of 3-53s on the mud tank! All screaming at the same time.
Say again? What?
What does the DDEC mean.
Detroit Diesel Electronic Control. Thing about Series 60 12.7 L's, those engines could be rated at 470 hp without piston coolers. The later version was a piston cooled block and could go 500 hp and 1650 torque.
Was that only on the Series 60s? I thought some of the last 2 cycles had some electronics on them.
You are correct. There are some very bizarre electronic fuel systems on the last generation of two-strokes. Doing everything they could to make them hit emissions.
The Henuset Polarbear trencher started off with a Cat engine but was changed to a 16V-149. Depending on who you talk to it was either 1250 HP or 2000 HP. The historical equipment site where it's at did get started, as I see in the link below but won't be getting the trencher back in operating condition. It was built in the 70's, I think 1973 and only took a month to build. I would guess the assembly took a month with all the parts present. It weighed 168 tons! Got to talk with a couple guys that worked for Henuset. They designed and built several trenchers and other specialized machines. Edit. Just saw on another site that the trencher needs a torque converter but a long time Henuset employee thinks the trencher can be brought back to operational. That would be totally cool! 1960's Henuset “Polar Bear” Wheel Trencher To not ruin my 1,000 Suggestions I decided to re-edit a low-effort suggestion to a more interesting and obscure vehicle. This vehicle in particuar fascinated me so uh.. Here lies the “Tactical Neo” from Mongolia. Meet the Henuset “Polar Bear” built to trench permafrost on the Aleaska pipeline... ccdiscussion.com Heavy Construction Heritage Society HCHS The Henuset Polarbear seems to be getting a fair bit of attention on Facebook lately, and rightfully so. The 300,000lbs beast has been sitting for quite some time, but it is our pleasure to say that... www.facebook.com
I worked for a drilling company in the early 70s lots of jimmy’s 1-71 thru 8v71 some 110s and 53s
The lessons are going well. Mr. Wrench is a fast study. I think we can move on to advanced studies, now. This is the corporate logo, affectionately known as the spinning anus.
That is quite a trencher!
12v71 on highway engine spec's from the 70's. *
And here is a old one--not seen by many these days. *
Many of these trucks during this time were inline 6-71 powered. It was the go to power plant for diesel power because it cheaper than Cummins or any other at that time. Cat sold the D468 starting in 1939 but it was a flop for trucks. The 6-71 for what it was at that time just had more power/torque, most Cummins were only 150 to 180 hp while the Detroit was 238. *
The cool thing about the 12.7/14 Liter Series 60 was it's cylinder head design. Built to easily be serviced, camshaft was easy to remove using a holding fixture for drive gear. And cam lifted right out the top unlike Cat E models/C15's. The 14L could be rated at 575 HP and 1850 torque, we had a few of those, would give any good running a rough time. One 14L below I overhauled, actually it was the last one I did. Loved those engines. *
Did gray marine just put their name on them and provide the cooling system?
I'm interested in the Series 60 to. Most of what I've heard about them is good. They could be good on fuel.
Rather than spend a ton of time on Gray I'll post this Wiki, because Gray used many manufactures engines and relabeled with their name. The one I photo'd & posted is a old two valve head type instead of later 4 valve head, and were known for dropping valves. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Marine_Motor_Company
Just for longevity, the 12.7L was known for the ability to run very high mileage/hours. Some well beyond a million miles and still have the original head gasket. The 14L on the other hand usually needed attention in the 650, to 800,000 mile mark. Which was still high mileage. Cylinder liner/deck issue could/would arise with liner sinking causing head/block sealing issues. Any of those engines only ran a liner protrusion height of .0005 to .003 which isn't much but obviously effective. The block counter bores could oversize repair sleaves installed in counterbore along with a bronze shim to correct the problem and on out of frame the block deck surface, resurfaced as with most any diesel engine. Cat & Cummins also used shims in corrected cylinder counter bores. But the 60 ran fairly tight valve adjustment spec's .009 intake .020 exhaust. When a Series 60 jake engine brake would start showing signs of weakness plus the possibility of low power often it would found the intake valves were extremely tight. Like to the tune of .003 before zero lash was obtained. It was common after I would run overheads the driver would relay it had better engine braking.
I only did the college work so I don't have any experience, that's why I come here. This is what I do know, we studied the Cummins, Cat, and Detroit engines and all the accoutrements that go with them. For me, the Cummins (it was the big cam at that time) was too complicated - all that dial indicator timing jaz. The Catapillar seemed like a good heavy engine, plain and simple. The Detroit (8V71) was a wildly ingenious piece of work, two stroke, bolt two of them together for a 16V71, make it run CW or CCW etc. When I hired on with the railroad I was told they (the two stokes used in locomotives) were used in submarines; I don't know because I wasn't there, but it makes me wonder if Rudolf didn't invent that engine himself.
It was the military contracts and massive amounts of Higgins LCVP boats that made Gray Marine a thing. There are still a few operating in wooden seiners around SE. I think all the Gray Marine 6-71’s are low block engines with composite head gaskets vs the high blocks with fire rings.
I didn't realize S&S was big enough to be making engines. Their trucks I'm familiar with where never all that great and quite frankly had a fairly short life in the military. The internet claims LMTV production started in 1982? I remember first seeing them around 2003, at Osan AFB, Korea. And we still had plenty of CUCVs and HUMMVS then (however they are spelled). I've never heard anyone in the .mil speak fondly about them. They weren't in Hollywood much either compared to the M35 or Humvee.
It is till a person has timed a few, mostly it was finding the correct gasket thickness for the cam follower on #1 cylinder which two .014 gaskets used to start with got it in the ball park or right on the money. And #3/#5 could be checked using same gaskets. I've timed well over two hundred in my years now, once procedure is lodged in brain it becomes second nature.
I still don't understand where the hell all of Palmer and Wasilla's dirt goes in Anchorage. Would figure the whole city would be raised a few feet by now with how much dirt the RR hauls.
The fitting of liners in the 12V71 was a slightly bigger issue than the 8. IIRC there were .005, .010, .020 and .030 oversize liners. I know a 12V71 could have a menagerie of liners for fit up. Because .001 for slip fit was the ticket IIRC, at one shop I worked at there were boxes of new various liners from rebuilds, just because what liner was listed as didn't mean it was a perfect fit.
The thrill of victory and agony of defeat--defined in this photo. *
TS, there was an old mechanic that did part time work after he retired in 1978. He was well known as an excellent truckdriver and a better truck mechanic.. I watched him time a 743 cummins one time and he would cut the cam follower shims and gaskets in half and adjust for each cylinder. It took him a long time and I never saw any leakage from the gaskets. He said once in a while he would find 2,4 or 6 off just a tiny bit if he only did 1,3,5. Ever know anyone that did this? Was it worth it?
Oh yeah, I even did one time. But that could be done with the old style material the gaskets were made from, the composition gaskets now won't allow it without a bunch of trouble. The thing is timing every cylinder is really unnecessary it might change pushrod travel by .0004. Timing 1, 3, 5, is a absolute because when blocks were bored for cam bearings the straight line would be off from front to back. Cam lobes are pretty much on the money.
The ol guy was nearly 70 in 1978 and he was the best around with gearboxes too. He rebuilt a front SSHD that had the bolts in the ring gear start coming loose. He complained that these were getting to hard to do because of how heavy they were. After all the years around diesel, gas, asbestos, smoke etc he still lived to 92 iirc.
That’s one of the many nuances that get guys in trouble when the uninitiated mess with these things. There is a feel to fitting those liners. My memory is fuzzy, but I think there was fit A, fit B and C liners. Sometimes, you would unbox a whole shelf full of OEM liners to fit six of them. Sometimes a good fit wasn’t possible and blocks got replaced or warranty disclaimers were signed. On the other hand, a do-it-yourself logger would stuff a six pack of aftermarket liners in his engine, no fitting, no liner height checking and get lucky. But, it was pure luck.
Block and liners needed to be measured, and required honing by the book IIRC or it was off to machine shop for correcting. But how many were built and wrist pins were never checked too. 2 strokes had their own bag of idiosyncrasies, but like many engines all counter bores/decks need to be measured. The last 855's I built these last few years needed major machine work. There isn't a small main bolt big cam block out there that doesn't need a line hone of crank housing bores, everyone of them have a very slight bow from end to end. And these days it's a given that a two stroke from that era is in need of major block work, after all it's almost 2026 and a Silvers hay day was 1980. F--k I'm getting old.
I always said the best work in the house was gear boxes, I loved those too, because no one else wanted to do them.
All this makes me remember things like how much I hated Hydro starters ! A whole lot of pumping for a few seconds of cranking. On the bright side it improved my balance One foot on the ground one on hydro starter one hand on throttle and one spraying either in the intake and hoping it would start
Can you explain their electronic fuel systems farther? I guess the rack was gone. Did they have unit injectors more like a CAT C12? What else did it consist of?
What makes the difference between an early and a late? I have noticed the stamped steel valve covers and the cast aluminum ones. Is that one way to tell the difference? Was there other changes that happened over time or was there several at once?
What is the low block vs high block?
I had to mess with them a few times, hated the time I wasted trying to figure out how they worked. They are just a bad memory. Army mechanics are the experts on those.
High block = liners protrude above deck. Low block = liners sit below the deck.
How did the low block head gasket seal?
Thinking about it more, there are still Coasties around that are SME’s on the Textron 6V-92TA DDEC 3/4 Detroits in the 47-foot "motor lifeboat" (MLB) surf boats. The engines had dry sumps and could operate upside down. But, they got re-powered with QSC8.3-M Cummins.
A regular composite head gasket.
Speaking or detroits do you recall a hyster forklift that lived at the murrysville shop. Place I got it from claimed it came from cat in pittsburg. I never thought to ask when I was working there. Probably would have left tgere in the early 90s
Can't remember a hyster I think there was a b16 with a Detroit but towmotor took in a lot of trade ins
Here is a strange Detroit story. The Series 40. Mostly export, but it got installed in various products and imported back into the North American market.
Isn't that a DT466? 30 series was the 444
How goofy is that? A rebranded DT466/530 with DDEC controls.
MTU Solutions owned by Rolls Royce makes parts for 2 strokes.
We cant forget about the 51 series , has no valves. The rental shop I worked at in early 80’s bought an auction genset with a 2-51. The thing would barely run. Took the exhaust manifold off and the head exhaust ports were carboned up solid , had maybe 5/16 opening. I assume it had a very easy life with no/ low load.
What was the 30 Series on IH 444?
Is it really just a IH DT466. I thought someone had told me that is what a 50 series was.
I saw those mentioned in a magazine article. They are pretty rare and didn't work out to well.
Yup, but built with a Detroit ECM, programming, some sensors and wiring.
Didn't those pistons have three parts? I think they were called truncated. What was the reason for that? Or did I dream something?
I distinctly remember a four cylinder version of the series 60. A local freight company had one in a freightliner.
Two piston designs. Trunk solid piece and the multi-piece ones.
The connecting rod is bolted to the piston pin.
Did your college have a Detroit Powered Dragster? Mine did. Truck Shop has probably seen this thing around the PNW.
Never saw that, heard about it though.
Series 50, I think they were mainly in bus applications.
Didnt they have a 1-71 as well?
Series 50's were used in pretty much everything including military. Just a 60 minus 2. As high as 375 hp for a 8.5.
yes they did
No, we didn't have or make a dragster. That's impressive though. Makes a lot of noise AND moves as well!
Yes there was, collectors love them, not very many made and all pre-war. The only one I knew of was a an 80 year old DD mechanic and enthusiast in Hawaii on another forum, it got burned up in the Lahaina fire.
They also had 2-71 and 3-71 had to take a Detroit salesman to see the upper engine on a grade all because he told me there was no such thing as a 3-71
Notice--too funny the demonstrator {dad} Shush be quiet to the kid. *
The thing I always remember about the 1-71. My boss at the time was working on one he fired it up out in front of the shop and in no time it vibrated its way back into the shop
I spent a lot of time sleeping on the other side of a 3/4" plywood wall from a 1200rpm 2-71 genset on a boat. Wasn't bad with earplugs. The was also an 8-71 main in there, too, that would wet stack trolling for tuna (throttled back to 11 or 1200 all day). A guy I know and trust told me to run it a gallon low and it greatly reduced the problem though now that I think about it I'm not really sure why. Another boat I spent time on had 2 8-71 mains and a 3-71 genset that wasn't big enough to handle the refrigeration so it had a big 6 cylinder Isuzu that could handle everything by itself but made quite a rumble. It was a relief when the reefer system got caught up so we could shut it down and go back to the 3-71.
Are there still alot of Detroits running in boats up and down the coast? If you spent much time there would it be somewhat common to see them?
There has been a series of grants, programs, free money and guilt trips over the last three decades to encourage SE Alaska fishermen to re-power their vessels. With all that, still a surprising number of seine boats & skiffs with Detroit Power.
I have not read through all the pages of information but they made some much larger. The EMD 710 series was 710 cubic inches. That is per cylinder of which there could be 8, 12, 16 or 20 of them. Never worked on anything over a 12 V 92 myself.
That's what killed the two strokes in the rail industry. None of them go into commiefornia. All the maintenance of way machines used to have little Detroit's powering them. Now the new machines are all Kubota or something. Of course they were getting old and I'm sure the replacements are more fuel efficient and cheaper.
They still soldier on with intermittent duty situations like this. I gave it a shot of ether, it started up and did the needful, mostly at an idle. the days of dragging that derrick around by winch and anchor are mostly over.
I was wondering about anyone's experience with Jake Brakes on Detroits. Did they work the same way as on a 4 cycle engine? With every upward stroke being a power stroke they would have activated twice as much but where they stronger?
Not really, jakes work best at high rpm. With a Detroit you wanted them at 2100 to 2200 to get anything beneficial. With the 12V71 and extra four cylinders those were pretty good.
I do not know. Never drove one but a V8 with Jakes sounded really cool.
Sorry to ask a dumb question in a history thread. I have an excavator running a 4-71. Am I really supposed to push the throttle lever all the way forward and go to work? There is no tachometer and i don't know how fast it supposed to run or if the governor will protect it from over-revving. It seems quieter the faster it spins....
Detroit 2 strokes do not like to be lugged, In your case I would imagine 3/4 throttle would be satisfactory for the fact it's running a hydraulic system, but it's not going to hurt it at full throttle as long as governor is in good condition, I say this without having seen it or hear it run too. But there should be a tach drive on it.
Care to offer to us what excavator that is? I'm now curious. And I agree with TS, 3/4 to full throttle. Being an equipment application it likely has a variable speed governor which maintains engine rpm for whatever load it's under, set the throttle and go to work. Those engines are like greyhounds, they don't like idle, they like to run.
guessing an Insley 600 or 1000
Not all that strong because the nature of the engine is that some of the compression of the upstroke is lost to the intake ports still being open. But they were a whole lot better than nothing.
This was the one I learned to drive. 1980 W900. Shifting at 2150 and cruising 1900 seemed normal. This picture was taken after the troublesome double -0 block was swapped out for a 8VF62300 Silver. A-timed, blower bypass installed & super 100s. It would be years until Dad switched to Cats and I learned about gear fast/run slow.
Cringe, truth is salt water chevy's were the choice of many because it could put up with constant abuse. Throw a rookie in the seat, slam the door yelling instructions {keep her wound tight, remember to swing-em wide while giving a parting wave}. Epitome of the term WFO. If a driver was having a bad day taking it out on a 8-71 was wasted time, after a few hours his temper dampened realizing he wasn't going to win. Making that two losses for the day because his wife also won the first rodeo before he left for work. *
I wondered if that is how it would be because the volumeteric efficiency of a 2 stroke is not as good as a 4 stroke. That being said did they have lower compression than other diesels?
Can you explain "A timed, Blower bypass installed, and super 100's"?
Advanced timing turbo bypassing the blower and a set of big injectors
Does the turbo bypassing the blower allow it to build higher boost?
Area of 17 or 19 to 1 as opposed to a typical big cam cummins of 14 or 15 to 1.
The bypass equalizes the pressure between the blower inlet and outlet. So, it takes less hp to turn the blower at the higher RPM range. The air systems on these things had countless options of turbo A/R ratios and blower drive ratios. A rig pulling the Western Rockies could benefit from a different configuration than a rig pulling vans on the coast.
Right up until the quill shaft says goodbye.
Then you weld a piece of the broken quill shaft, to an old socket. Now, you can remove those leaking Caterpillar pre-cups.
That's a pretty big pre-cup.
The oil pickup screen on the 92s makes for a great pasta strainer, for the kitchen.
Mite be redneck if!!!! Heres your sign!
For that nice smoky flavour.
Perhaps the doc said your where low on oil drips and carbon
When you need a little more NOISE in your diet!
Well, IMHO, the 53 series Detroit, straight up nothing but noise, ugly, disgusting no personality noise. But the 71 series, pure two stroke music when it's pegged on the governor grading a hill.
Back in 1973-74 when Freightliner offered the Powerliner, built with extra cooling and breather for big power. Engines offered was 12V71, 3408 & the Cummins KTA 600 which made it the first truck offered with 600 hp. *
White Truck was an innovative truck brand that had a long run. Sad the company and brand fell away, and likely legit business reasons, still sad. I cut my big truck teeth in a '62 White 4000 with a C series 160 Cummins and Fuller 5x4 Quadraplex. And COE trucks are boss!
Until enough miles behind the wheel then a conventional looks real good. White died from poor management with too many brands under one umbrella. Finally in 2008 White took it's last breath, they had good ideas just bad people at the helm. * Quadraplex is a mack designation.
She is a 1985 Linkbelt 3400 and I call her the cockroach. I don't think there is a circuit board anywhere to be found. If i run across a greyhound decal, I might slap it on her.
Still have my Dad’s, off a 6-71, cheer’s
If it has a 71 series Detroit I wager there's no circuit board to be found on that machine. Likely the only thing electronic on that rig is the voltage regulator for the alternator.
Righteous
In case this comes up in discussion and to keep from repeating what's already been covered. This thread below has a perfect description of what needs to be done by kshansen & Count- Vetech. * HeavyEquipmentForums
I had to go and check out what I wrote, turns out that was about six years back. These days I'm lucky if I can remember what I had for breakfast when it's time for lunch!
I did some work on a BOMAG recycler today. It has a 6v92 in it. I didn't know they made 92's in 6v's. I thought only 8v and bigger.
Built scads of 6v's.
I drove a few trucks with those coupled with a 9 speed. They belong in that recycler….
Not much power but much stink out the pipe!
What all configurations did they build the 92's in?
6, 8, 12, and 16.
Which remines me of the guy I worked for and his 92's. First two were double OO's, one cracked the main web, the other cracked a main cap. After the first one and the vibe it was putting out plus a drop in oil pressure he nursed it all the way from Eugene to Seattle. Emerson diesel grabbed the zipper and put a Silver in it. It ran for 450K then the fourth one was dropped in, two story ford. *
I remember Sheldon repairing a 6V92 in his apartment.
Sheldon got that cheap---it came out of a cab over.
I was wondering what specialty tools I will need to work on Detroits. I know I'll need the injector height timing gauge. I have seen some tuneup tool kits, will I need all those things or do they just make it easier?
I’d say the most used item is a good manual primer pump. They are notoriously difficult to prime without one. There is so much special tooling for those things, depending on how deep you want to go.
A rag in the fuel fill and an air nozzle will get them primed.
Or like I had, a electric fuel pump for automotive with a box of fittings.
Once a local concrete company called the shop, a mixer with a 8v71 Detroit had left the plant with eleven yards of concrete in the drum and ran out of fuel on the way to the fuel pumps. They filled the filters a few times but could not get it going. They were getting worried the concrete would harden. I filled a gallon oil jug with fuel and disconnected the fuel line from the transfer pump and connected a short line to the transfer pump and got the driver to fire it up running off the fuel in the oil container. Once it was running I shut it off and reconnected the fuel line and told the driver to hold the throttle wide open until it fired up and picked up fuel. It missed and sputtered a bit but did pick up fuel and got the drum turning again. The transfer pump was located near the top of the engine so it had to lift the fuel a long way.
Speaking of tools, could anyone enlighten me on what brand or kind of tool it takes to compress diesel valve springs? I have a good one that works great for gas engines but it wouldn't last long on a diesel head. I have searched on line to no avail. I am looking for one that will cross over several engine manufacturers. Thanks.
There are several pneumatic that work that will cage up to 400 lbs of spring pressure. Diesels don't run that much open spring pressure. And OTC makes a HD manual 4842 that's not too pricy.
Can you list what you would use for like basic tuneup, to more in depth, to full out rebuild?
I have heard that they can be hard to prime. What is the best way to prime them? Where would you hook in at?
Mr. Wrench, oddly enough, I just happen to have an example of typical old-school, Detroit primary and secondary fuel filter head assemblies sitting on my kitchen counter, next to the air fryer. Here in the park, my neighbor’s expect me to make a favorite holiday treat. Liquor ball sandwiches. Then, on Thanksgiving, everyone stops by my single wide for a grab-n-go and a quick chat. Anyhoo, back to your question. Typically, the primer pump outlet hose is connected to one of the available 3/8” NPT inlet ports on the primary filter head. They are marked inlet. Then, you pump until your arm goes numb. Switch arms and pump some more. Then, She’ll fire up. Or, if you have more than two brain cells to rub together, such as Truck Shop. Do as he suggests and use an 12v electric pump. You can always grab power off the alternator or starter motor.
I still purchase and use these old school 5110760 Detroit primer pumps. Detroit installed them on some applications. They are fairly reliable, inexpensive and are handy to have around. I just looked, I can’t find mine. It might be under the trailer. I think the neighbor kids borrowed it to swipe heating fuel from the trailer park supervisor. G’Maw’s Tank was getting low, I hear.
Those were common years ago on all types. A option on older trucks mounted in dash, many trucks Cummins powered had those. That way driver could sit on his butt while priming munching on a spicey roller dog with all the fixings at the same time.
I have 2.5 at last count.
I assembled engines years back with on a 360* stand, it's the best tool anyone can have. The job is 100 times easier on a rotating stand, and person doing stays cleaner, it goes together better and it's safer. Specialty tools for engines just come with time and really only a half dozen needed for each brand. Cat, Cummins & Detroit custom tools can all be had through {Monaco Tool located in Eugene Ore} they make high quality specialty tools. Below is a custom engine stand I built a few years ago, made from a John Deere model 95 combine final drive for rotator. The frame and jib hoist is all 5"x 5"x 3/8" tube and center upright holding gear housing/rotator is 5"x 7"x 1/2". I also built a fixture for Cat 3406/C15 but never painted it or used it. I built 5 Cummins 855 big cams in a row on this, I could assemble the crank, install liners/pistons/heads & time it in my street clothes and never get dirty. A guy heard about it locally, walked in with cash and I loaded her up. He's built two engines on it so far, it would work well for Detroit inline and V8's too. It could easily hold 5,500 lbs of engine. A complete 855 is 2,800 lbs. The jib is great for setting cranks and heads. *
I still have a couple too….
Very nice engine stand. I hadn't thought about a jib on it, that is a good idea. I have two combine final drives I saved to make a stand I just have not yet.
Thanks for the information and pictures. Nice setup.
I noticed in some earlier post, some talk about cylinder sleeve fitment. Does anyone care to talk about that farther? Are they dry sleeves or wet sleeves? I thought that 71's had one kind and 53's had another but I don't remember which.
They come out of the air fryer nice and clean, will have to remember that trick.....
In that manual for 8V-71, IIRC it explains liner fit. 71 dry 92 wet.
There is an art and feel to it. Very subtle differences between the various options. It’s best to have someone show you. Then you can establish the baseline to the learning curve. 500 liners later, you’ll be confident. Or, slap some Alibaba’s in and call it good.
Actually there is a art to engine building of any type, gas or diesel. None of it is acquisitioned even within a few years. Cylinder bores, counter bores, housing bores, journals, decks & valve/ cylinder head components have to measured with accurate tooling, before and after machine work is completed before assembly. 90% of engines built--very few are assembled with assurance all clearances are correct. Most assume it's correct with a high luck factor for a long stretch, then suddenly several in a row bite'm in the butt landing them at HEF looking for advise. * I measure all liner flanges vs counter bore depth and use corresponding liner to like counter bore measurements-- it doesn't take that long to complete. That way I know liner protrusion height is as close as possible over the length of deck. Same with liner OD & ODB's. Each type engine has it's own idiosyncrasies, and takes a lifetime to acquire most of them. Plus to stay in the game and good at it repetition is necessary and constant, leaving the rest of repairs as a secondary. Most of my experience is engine internals, external is just that and can be altered to run without it, if it ain't right on the inside there's no point in worrying about the outside pieces. I don't get the talked about butterflies on start up, lost that a long long time ago, learn to be confident in your work.
I enjoyed reading your post. I was wondering where the problem is on those sleeves. Is it in the liner protrusion or sleeve OD to cylinder fitment. What are you paying attention to? What happens if you don't have it right? You have me scared now. I hope to rebuild two of mine in the future and I want to get them right. Do you have to watch it on all the series or just on 71's. You said 71's are dry 92's are wet, what are 53's? Do you have to watch for this on dry and wet? I appreciate you guys being willing to teach me what it has taken all your life to learn.
Yes, accurate and long post that couldn't possibly cover every detail, like the shade tree wrench benders who don't use new head bolts and don't clean the head bolt threads in the block with a tap. The little things that make a proper build.
Yes. So, if they don’t fit right, you get leaking fire rings and/or cracked liners. You can get lucky. Or, maybe you only get 500 hours from a rebuild, The crankcase pressure goes sky high, it starts blowing coolant out the stack. Maybe, She wet stacks on you & the air box drains start puking oil. One cool thing thing about these beasts, is they do like to fail in a dramatic fashion. I mean, the more horse power, the more critical this stuff is.
So if the liner protrusion is to low the fire rings leak and if the protrusion is to high they can crack. I'm still not quite sure if I understand. Can you cut the counter bores and use shims like on a CAT say a 3406?
Below is a Big Cam 400, the very last one I completed a year ago now. A list of machine work to correct to make reliable. Line honed crankshaft housing bores. Cylinder liner counter bores cut for .020x.040 oversized lower press fit liners with .020 liner shims. mag tested Deck surfaced .007, total allowable is .012 6 rebuilt connecting rods, housing bores honed, wrist pin bushings replaced, checked for straight, mag tested. Crankshaft polished, all std, mag tested and checked for straight. Head bolt holes checked for cracking. I installed new cam bushings. Three new cylinder heads, new ceramic coated pistons, new liners, all new bearings, new camshaft, I rebuilt cam followers, new push rods, resealed rocker boxes, rebuilt jakes, new oil lube pump, new water pump, I rebuilt oil cooler, new turbo, new head bolts, new piston coolers, rebuilt pump & injectors, I rebuilt accessory drive and air compressor. It's not cheap to rebuild even with aftermarket internals. Machine work alone my cost is around 2,900. Parts and machine work will easily hit $18,000 alone for a properly rebuilt Big Cam. Ain't nothing cheap about any of them, Cat, Cummins or Detroit. A factory rebuilt OEM Series 60 12.7L will run $38,000 and a $7,000 core Charge. So I can't express the need to spend the time covering every little aspect of a rebuild, cutting a corner can be very costly and too many costs a reputation in the business. Rebuilding for a hobby is one thing, a customer is entirely another level. One thing I always replace--the crank damper. *
The days of rebuilding for a thousand dollars a hole are long gone and ain't coming back.
Think of it this way; The liners all have to be the same height. Or, the fire rings don’t seal properly to the head. Next, the outside diameter of the liner has to fit the diameter of the block. Or, they rattle and crack. But, if they are too tight, they crack.
Does anyone recall ever doing counterbores on a 92 or 71 series engine? I’m probably wrong or my memory is fuzzy on this. I think they hatched themselves way before the counterbores ever wore out. I remember seeing the tooling and the inserts, but nobody did it. Except for the low block 6-71’s. They had lots of fire deck issues.
That is a big list and a lot of work. I have not rebuilt any engines that big yet. Mostly stuff in ag equipment so alot of them are dry sleeve with no liner protrusion. I know how it can be to pay real close attention to the details and then still have some problems and then I have a neighbor who can overhaul an engine in the cow lot and it's good to go, no problems. It is hard to find good machinist around here. I had a FORD engine I had bored oversize. When I got it together it was hydro-locking on one cylinder I guess it had started to have cavitation erosion and when it was bored it had a tiny hole in one of the cylinders that I did not see. The machine shop would not stand behind his work and it was not the costumers fault so guess who had to absorb that one! Now that model of engine I will only have it bored and sleeved back to standard.
Now that makes more since. So the liner protrusion has to be consistent and within spec. Now the sleeve OD, you don't want it drop in, and you don't want to drive it in, but it should just push in snug. Would that be about right? Would you want it the same for a wet sleeve and a dry sleeve?
So does the top of the sleeve actually set below the deck on the block on a low block 6-71? Can you tell a low block engine by looking at it from the outside. I'm still a little confused on the low block thing. Care to explain more?
Slip fitting the 53 series dry liners is fairly straight forward. The 71 and 92 is all about the rocking motion. Everything has to be super clean.
Finally, you had to say/// think it first. Only when blocks needed major from high hr usage, IIRC * Funny thing to note about most engines with solid or dry liners used in on highway, when those engines where done because of high hours--the vehicle was too. In Ag if it will pull a disc it will suffer another inframe. * Main difference I remember is head sealing area, low blocks used a layered composition gasket and later design is a perimeter seal with o-rings. Plus I think liners used a shorter port opening. Mainly 2 valve heads, IIRC.
OH complete kit for a 8V-92 averages $3,300 and up depending on brands. Cylinder heads are costly $1,400 complete with $1,500 core. New bare castings run $4,000 to $8,000 depending on brand/or oem.
I worked at a shop that had a Magnaflux machine. Most of the 71 and 53 blocks I magnafluxed had cracks between the water passages and the head bolt holes on the decks. You could not see them by eye but they would allow coolant to seep into the oil over time.
I have wondered for many years this question. I am aware of the possibility for the two stroke Detroit to run away but I can't remember why. The EMD SD40 engine was patterned after the 8V-71 Detroit. The block was fabricated out of 1" plate steel welded together then heated in an oven. At any rate it is basically a large Detroit, 16 cylinders. I never heard of one running away in the 30+ years I was around them. I always thought that would be quite a show, an engine who's idle speed was under 300 rpm turning 4000 rpm or whatever before it came apart. I sure wouldn't want to be around. What causes them to run away and why do you suppose it seldom or never happen on those locomotive engines?
I think most runaways are related to repair work. Somebody making a mistake with the rack or guvna. For example, on a 92, the valve cover can be slide up, far enough to contact the rack linkage. Always slide the valve cover down towards the exhaust manifold as far as it goes. Before tightening the screws. Next, it’s blower seals failing and the engine running away on lube oil. Third, it’s probably a turbo seal failing and again, the engine running on lube oil. Fourth, they are cursed by demonic entities. Perhaps, by the very souls of the Nephilim, bound to roam the earth since the flood. As foretold by Noah’s Grandfather, Enoch. Far fetched? Maybe not. Or, a combination of things like the engine running backwards. Which, can flip the blower seals backwards. Run it in the correct rotation and then the engine runs away on lube oil.
Stuck or malfunction of injector, or issue with governor are main issues. When shut down the fuel rack is at full fuel position so if one injector hangs it's full fuel till air supply is cut off.
Detroit 71 series had a "door"on the blower intake that could be closed to shut the engine down in the case of a runaway. It must have been a not uncommon event.
The EMD’s have the same principle as a 2 stroke Detroit , but that’s where it ends. Emd’s have separate heads & cylinders, roots blower at the back etc. We had problems with the blocks being cracked in the air box.Winton Emd, Cleveland were all before the Detroit 8v-71 .The cylinder & head would come out as a unit. I could change out a cylinder pack on 645 Sd 40 in a 1 1/2 hours, if you had everything ready and was cool enough. On a Alco 251 it took me 2 hrs, mainly because you have to torque stretch the rod bolts. Cheers
We had an old Wabco grader with a 6-71. Hadn't started it in probably 6 or 8 years. Fired it up and away it went. It's something to see in person. It's like buzzing it going so fast. Emergency cutoff cable was frozen. I cut the fuel line to kill it. It had a few stuck injectors. They all freed up except one. I disconnected that injector and drove it to the scrap yard on 5 cylinders.
I see. I also thought of something after I posted the above. After priming it to start it I would grab the lay shaft to give it a little boost while cranking it. Close to the lay shaft there was a governor box. If you revved it too high a button would pop out and kill the engine. Must have been some sort of fuel shut off. So, that engine may have been similar to a Detroit but different enough that it didn't run away for the reasons listed above. Correct?
Funny thing about all this runaway discussion--A Detroit two stroke powered truck is the only one I've ever seen with a pull cable in the dash marked {Emergency Shut Down}. That should cause the driver to think {just what kind of bomb is in this truck}.
Emergency shut down used to make people crazy they would pull it to shut down engine and then it wouldn’t start because you had to reset it on the blower
In marine use water in the fuel was always a problem. Boats on navy ships sat in the skids for months at a time and condensation settled in the tanks. The navy didn't mandate that fuel tanks had to be kept full. Drop the boat in the water for a few mile stretch to a port because you are anchored out and the water would take about ten minutes to hit an injector just as you are about to make a pier. A good snipe would hear it and get the helmsman to start turning circles while he pulled the engine cover and then tried to pull the valve cover. Ever wondered why there were hand knobs on a 6-71?
8v-71 also--Silver 92's didn't have them. *
1995 was the last of 8V-71's, although by accounts there are roughly a 1/4 million Detroit's of all configurations still in various use.
Woodward Guvna? I assume.
Looked like it.
You bet,
I've been reading about hydraulic and air starters on Detroits. What kind of equipment where they put on mostly. Would love to hear any experience with them.
When I was young i worked for a drilling company they ran a lot of dual engines to one output shaft to run large piston compressors made by Joy one engine on main compressor had a hydro starter you learned to dislike the hydro starter pretty quick! It had a pump with about a 3 foot handle on it that you pumped pressure into a accumulator Trust me you didn't get much cranking out of a full charge Once you got that engine running you engaged the clutch on that engine at a little above idle to start turning the compressor then you eased the clutch in on the other engine to get it started. Booster compressors were better they had a air starter that worked of the main no pumping needed!!!
Below is the howl of a Ingersoll Rand air starter. Required a large air tank designated for that purpose only, and the starters were heavy, air leaks were the bane. I hated air start in cold weather. *
Tank companies hauling hazmat used to run them. Detroit's or and Cummins. Never saw any of them with Cats but they were probably out there as well. One less thing to cause a spark and go boom. Those starters without a muffler have been known to wet some shorts.
Had a T800 with a Cat that had one at Ag company I worked for. Primarily pulled a anhydrous ammonia bottle. The driver just loved hitting the starter button when someone was passing by. He took two weeks vacation, while he was gone I stripped the air starter out stuffed a 42MT in and added another battery to make three. He went to fire it up then got out to check truck number to make sure he was in the right one.
I saw a 8V71 with an IR air starter and it was very loud but it was quick. So the air starters where not so good in the cold how about the hydraulic ones?
We had them on 4 3000 hp & 3 3600hp, Alco’s. We liked starting them up in the shop, would pee off the Boss’s & scare the secretary‘s. Would hook up another unit to get enough air. Bad though because the start button was just above the air starter, no wonder I have Tinnitus, used ear protection , but that was 50 years ago, cheers
First one I saw in the wild was a CF cab over. Large vertical tank behind the cab. That’s awesome.
Example of an air starter, not on a Detroit. The genset in the background IS a Detroit and how you got air to start the Waukesha.
A true drivers dream 8V-71, air start, weed burner, center point, dayton mag wheels, hip-hop spring suspension, short wheel base, eaton seven speed, 260 A/C, in any color you want as long as it's green & red or orange & blue with your CB handle lettered on windscreen or d-door, little billy babble quacker esq. * Ailments later on, spine damage, extreme bursitis in neck & shoulders, emphysema, deaf, hemorrhoids, damage to nerves in pelvic floor, drivers bladder, diabetes, and copd plus liver disease from alcoholism.
I worked at a place that was a quarry but stopped that and started selling stuff . I was told at one time the switched there stuff they used in the quarry over to air starters . I think every morning they would pull a air compressor around and start every thing they were going to use and leave it running all day. The stuff didnt have its own air tanks.
That sounds luxurious! haha! What about the little Ford cab-over in my avatar---Small low-backed rigid mount seat, nice firm (non sagging rear spring pack), easy clean cab (all upholstery pulled due to mice infestation), large (non functional a/c add-on unit) and...170hp! Super low gearing (2speed diff) due to ex-sweeper status. 4 speed Allison makes it really easy to drive; put my foot fully to the floor most of the time. One memorable drive (before my hernia surgery lol) 100km of potholed/washboard gravel out of Lillooet in 40c heat! Had to remove my seatbelt as it was tightening something fierce. Don't like to do that on this road... Jokes aside, it is a really useful truck in some situations... -----As to air starters, I am pretty sure my Dad told me the large (main) Cat engines on the oil rig (Loffland Brothers 93) he worked on had air start-----
Yes the old cats did and man were they loud I was at our rebuild facility for training one time they were having trouble with a 398 twice a day they would drain every ounce of air out of the shop trying to get it running
Meanwhile, out in the waste land,………
A magic movie mack.
And that is always the trouble with air starters and diagnosing starting issues.
Going back to the Detroit Diesel engines. If I remember correctly some engines the 53 series for sure had a small groove in the face of the compression rings that was a wear indicator. You removed the air box covers and rolled the engine so the rings were visible through the ports. If the groove was gone the ring was worn out. I don't recall if the 71 or 92 series had these.
^^^That sounds a good idea. I suspect the rings in our dozer must be pretty worn (6-71) as it is pretty hard to start without 2-3h of block heater.
One thing I remember about the Detroit's they were easily addicted to either
I bet the 6-71 in our dozer had a lot of ether put to it....It had no block heater when we acquired it. I added one first thing... I had heard about the possible ether addiction so was paranoid about its use. In summer I will use a few very short shots of ether (directly into blower via 1/4" plug) and only then once turning over for several seconds.
I have heard that an engine can became addicted to either but I have always wondered how that can happen. Can anyone explain the mechanical process that happens in the engine that makes it addicted to either?
We were just on a boat trip in Beauford.NC. It has a huge marina. This funky looking 65' work boat docks a couple slips from us. The boat has twin 12v71's in it. Captain said they're going to Trinidad to use it at the oil wells. At 6:00 AM they fire it up with the air starters. I wear ear plugs at night and it startled the crap out of me. I knew what it was , everyone else was what the Hell was that LOL
Ether is bad for the simple reason it dry's out bores especially the more used. Plus it has the probability of breaking rings. It's bad on any engine, engines with glow plugs or grid heaters really act up.
All CF linehaul trucks Detroit, Cummins and Cats had air starters up until mid-late 90's. Truly did suck in winter especially when lube valve on those big Ingersol starters failed. Go out into yard with 2" open end, unscrew #20 air line fitting, dump about a quart of fuel into line while charging very large tank with "start truck" (old beater f-150 with industrial Ingersol gas powered compressor) and stand back. Spun to life with a big old fuel cloud, don't forget 1/2 can of ether for good measure, especially in winter, was great in summer left a big shiny spot 10 ft. around. Definitely got the attention of anyone not familiar with those noise makers. Freightliner Fun Fact....All those linehaul trucks only ran one group 31 battery even hauling 2 or 3 trailers. Could leave all lights blinking in the shop till dead, hit air start and everything came to life again.
So the way they become addicted is that the either damages the cylinder bore/rings slowly over time and that lowers compression which means harder starting which means more either...
Besides being used in flammable environments what was the advantage of the air starters? More powerful, less batteries?
cheap, batteries average 3 to 4 years, starters about 400,000 miles, air starters can last depending twice that or more.
Keep in mind, we didn’t have good electric starters until the mid-80’s. Industry was still fooling with 24/12v systems for 24v Delco MT 50 starters, on high displacement engines. Compact, gear reduction, 12v starters are still relatively new, in the big scheme of things. Electric starting systems were high maintenance and heavy. Air was a good alternative back then.
I don't use ether, if fuel is good {not waxed} and batteries are up, I remove boot on intake and use a torch to heat intake air for 30 seconds. Then have someone crank it over while I hold flame to intake--fire right up, no muss no fuss and no ether.
Also keep in mind with air start if out of air, pull another tractor next to it , hook emergency (red) line to gladhand plumbed to start tank and press red dash button to charge airless tractor. No accessing battery boxes or jumper cables needed.
I hadn't really thought about that. Starter technology was not what it is now. Back when Detroits came out, some companies where even using pony start on their big engines, like CAT.
Remember this 2025 and air starters are outdated just like the two stroke diesel, both ran there coarse and had there day. But that day has long since expired and hopefully never returns. Reminiscing about old stuff is just that--old stuff Only large freight companies used air start--because it was cheap, not necessarily because it was good or handy, It's what penciled on paper.
It wasn't only big cats back in the day even small Cat engines used ponies I can remember starting the pony on a d2 with a rope some of the 977 actually had a recoil starter
What about the hydraulic starters. I havn't heard much talk about them.
It wasn't the armature or case or windings--most common was the 40MT. The real issue was the crap solenoids. OEM 40MT was good when new, the problem came in when rebuilt. Everybody and their brother was rebuilding starters/alternators back then using cheap USA made parts, solenoids with cheap copper contacts and crummy starter drives. Plus most didn't have a torque load test bench to test with. Pretty hard to compare a Delco 8200300 starter to a 40MT.
And Cat pony motors could have been as cantankerous as a Briggs too.
We’re just old guys talking about old stuff.
Kinda a rarity outside the third-world. Or, as a back up to the back up. I’ve ran into them on bilge pumps and back-up, back-up generators. For when all hope is lost. You can still crank up the generator.
Got to be 66.6 to be considered old.
Good I'm only 66.1
No kidding. Usually rated at 350 hp without a turbo, I'd rather have an L10.
Some of the last model two stroke locomotives had air starters. They worked fine except as posted above when the air reserve went empty and it's not coupled to another locomotive, you have to bring a locomotive to it to charge it.
Metlakatla had a Cat 3606 in their power house. I rebuilt the IR air starter on that beast. It was my last workorder for NC Machinery before leaving that organization.
I don't know about today, but CAT was still putting air starters on the C-175 engines in off road haul trucks in 2008 when I last worked in Decatur. It was a sound I'll never forget. Couple times a day you'd hear one crank off and roll out the door.
I'm waiting for the Bob Vila starters, the 3/8 220 volt cordless drill starter, just pack it on your hip like a six gun.
Cordless starters like they use to start top fuel dragsters and funny cars but with batteries built in.
Along those lines, but Vila.
Tool Time Heidi sells the Binford 2000 smart start, fits on your keychain.
That's kind of a weak setup.
Probably 70% of copper ore mined in the US is hauled by trucks fitted with air starters. All of our service trucks had compressors so jump-starting a 793 that had dumped its air was a snap.
Can I ask why?
Nothing weak about Tool Time Heidi.
I'm 64.993 and some days, I'm old. Certainly old enough to know better.
They are standard equipment on 793B, C, and D haul trucks. The trucks are continually rebuilt. Air starters are fairly reliable in that application so there's been no reason to pursue retrofitting electric start. Other side of it is the batteries are subjected to a lot less discharge on engine start. Dumping all the air does no harm compared to deeply discharging a battery, and a VMAC H60 or similar will have the truck fired up in a couple minutes. Downside is lazy operators deliberately dumping air after fueling so they'd get a break while we got a service truck up there.
Why those guys ought to be wh-------lol
Tool time heidi----sex always sells.
In the great scheme of things more than likely so on mine trucks. On highway on the other hand air start is a total thing of the past. Freight companies like CF were good for so many air start unit orders every year, when companies like CF died so did the output at IR. * But for those who want to turn something, IR 599 with 3.5" anvil. Called the 599 because that's what it weighs in lbs.
Good used one on EBay for $25K Ingersoll Rand Impact Tool Size 599, 3-1/2" Square Drive, 80,000 Ft. Lbs. NICE | eBay This Pneumatic Impact is in good working condition. The Impact requires 375 CFM of air to operate. It is 3-1/2" Drive and has a max output of 80,000 Ft. Lbs. www.ebay.com
80,000 ft lbs output gives new meaning to beat it to death!
Was going to post that but decided to wait and see if anyone would look. * Not a Bob Vila tool.
I was at the auction yard working today and guess what was there.... A Galion road grader and it has a Detroit Fuel Pincher in it. I have heard about those but never seen one yet! They where the worst engine ever? Let's hear what you guys have to say.
Now this thread is going places...
Absolutely, I've never seen one in an on-highway truck. They have certain advantages for mine use. That IR 599 reminds me a lot of pneumatic drifters. Our unit of choice is the Gardner Denver PR123; air consumption is similar but a PR123 only weighs about 300 pounds. We have three on site, one on a 3100A air track drill and the others on a rubber-tire jumbo carrier. I'm all but certain that IR built similar drifters - Gardner-Denver and clones just cornered the mining market around here.
Toss-up between the 8.2 and the International VT365.
Is 8.2 the actual name of the Fuel Pincher?
both were pinched, definite turds.
Going back in time to look at branding, “8.2 Fuel Pincher” or “Fuel Pincher” was used on their marketing materials. Looking at Service and parts information, sometimes they just shortened it to 8.2. But, a turd by any other name, is still a turd.
To properly operate the 8.2 in owners manual it gave a diagram of good cheek displacement.
Good picture. They left the oil cap off to start the leaking properly.
Somewhere on the web (a link from Trawler forums) I came across a fairly lengthy and interesting dissertation by a 8.2 Fuel pincher 'guru'. Some boats are still running these engines (including some old Tollycraft's) and the author of this paper discusses the shortcomings (like the poorly supported cylinders, and head gasket problems from movement) as well as ways to make them last as long as possible in a marine application... I am not a mechanic, and have never personally seen one in action; but found it quite an interesting read...will post a link if I can find the article.
Did they at least live up to their name?
Here is a link to the article about the 8.2 Fuel pincher Detroit Diesel 8.2 Liter "Fuel Pincher" V8 Engine - everythingaboutboats.org Detroit Diesel 8.2L “Fuel Pincher” marine engine “take-outs” with turbochargers but no charged air cooling. DETROIT DIESEL 8.2 ARTICLE CONTENTS: Detroit Diesel 8.2 Overview, Features,+. Link to EAB’s Main Detroit Diesel Article with Contact Information, other products,+. 8.2 Serial Number Guide... everythingaboutboats.org
It is advertising hype by a company that made it's name with really inefficient 2 stroke engines. They come out with this little 4 stroke, and sure it looks good next to a 2 stroke. Let's give it a name.
For the fact it could be or for fact in a boat, at this stage of the game a repower would have been the prudent thing to do. Boats that don't run under there own power are nothing more than a glorified raft or a raft with a sail. Now I know Vikings did a fantastic job with a sail boat, but they smartly equipped them with oars rowing in time with a rock drummer to keep time according to old movies. And we all know old movies are factual. Just like in Jaws when the boat didn't start and the Shark-a-Zoid attacked. Something about two strokes in a boat on a lake with a pull rope trying to start it in a haze of blue smoke at the furthest point from land in all directions should cause pause before leaving shore. One with a 8.2 should cause alarm to all on board that their wills haven't been updated as it starts knocking about to huck a rod through the hull.
What was the time frame that this engine was built? It was a 4 stroke right?
Fuel Pincher is correct if the engine won't keep running for long.
IIRC mid 80's to late 90's, 4 stroke.
The Ag company I worked for had two 8.2 powered farm fuel delivery trucks long before I worked there, both were still parked behind main office with tanks removed. Both died at a early age, and spent a fare amount of time in shop. They finally decided to knock both in the head. And bought two IH with DT466's in 90.
I have to say, the IH DT466 was a tough old engine. Wasn't a barn burner for power, but was in it for the long haul. Worst thing about them, as they aged, the unburned fuel smell that would burn your eyes was horrible, but the damn things would still run.
One thing that made them popular in the marine world was they were shorter in length than a 6 and took up less space in an engine compartment. Which, didn’t provide many options for repower. I was involved with a few repowers using Cat3208s and Perkins. 20 years ago, parts were dried up. Can’t imagine what it would be like today.
I could not tell you that, we never kept track of fuel burn. But they were very frustrating to drive, for similar reasons to a 2 cycle. They had very little torque rise and it was alarming to drive them because they ran over 3000 RPM all the time. It was a cruel joke, a 3208 was 10x nicer to drive than one of those.
Right here is where the competition from Ford with the mighty 6.6L/7.8L Brazilian gets inserted. Both were dogs, not inferring the four legged were bad. The mid eighties was a time of some real poor development in diesel power, the GM 6.2 along with Fords 6.9 right up the line to low flow BC IV Formula's/NT88's and Cat with Peek-a-boo series 4CK's. Consumers were the testing labs.
The Ag company I worked for had IIRC 17 with DT466. Most all were 1989 down and most had bad raw fuel issues. What I found was out the 17 about 9 had bad stats. Were only running 150/160 temp. Changed out all the stats/everyone of them and slowly those engines stopped the blue smoking and raw fuel smell. But it took awhile because cylinders were washed somewhat. These trucks were loaned to farmers with anhydrous/ dry fertilizer setups on beds, no one checked a damn thing, just got in drove. As long as it made it to field and back was all that mattered. Try as they might they couldn't kill them.
We currently have a 6.6 Brazilian (turbo straight into intake) and previously had the 7.8 (air to air). They are very reliable and as you say extremely underpowered; especially the 6.6. It is really easy to drive though as foot stays to the floor all of the time! I tightened the governor springs 3 clicks in order to save right foot fatigue! (needs 2600-2700 rpm for highway speed) Found some old (new stock Bosch )injectors in Ohio, for $300 (brand new in boxes!) put those in a few years ago--now goes up a steep grade (empty) at 70km/h instead of 50km/h...
We had 1 guy in a Detroit Diesel shop I worked in back in 1988 that was their 8.2 Fuel Pincher specialist. He seemed to like them but they did not last that long before they were all off the road. He use to redo the head bolts is what I seem to remember. Simon C
and back to the ir599. 1.6M views · 14K reactions | Using our Ingersoll Rand 2 inch impact wrench to tighten the flywheel nuts on the Tod Engine. Air supplied by a 125 cfm compressor. | Youngstown Steel Heritage / J&L Narrow Gauge Railroad Using our Ingersoll Rand 2 inch impact wrench to tighten the flywheel nuts on the Tod Engine. Air supplied by a 125 cfm compressor. www.facebook.com
caution, cross thread contamination ahead.
Enough of that sad Todd engine crap--this thread is titled Two Stroke Anxiety fun.
I worked a lot on 353, 453 and knew them inside out. Built over 50 completes and was my start into the rebuild world before jumping into the Cummins and Cat. The last 53's built that were silvers were way better for leaks and I seen some with lots of hours, it all depended on who was maintaining them. I knew a few independants who became wealthy rebuilding them. Simon C
What was the application for the ones you worked on?
They were used on Timberjack Skidders, Clark Skidders, Treefarmer Skidders, Forklifts. Trojan Loaders, Clark Wheel Loaders, Terex Bulldozers ( 6-71 ) also some 4-71 used in log processors. Did a couple 12V71 Twin turbos in Hawaii on sugar can haulers. some 8V71 found in underground rock trucks. Simon C
I thought they made some silvers besides just the 92's. What was different about the 53 silvers?
A friend that's a old logger says---{the best log skidder operators have red hair}.
Man, you're opening up a can of worms. I love the older 2-cycle Detroit's, their history, their design, their many applications, their simplicity, etc. They'd still be in production if it wasn't for the environmental requirements. I never worked as a mechanic on Detroits, but personally own three and have worked around several over the years. Heavy equipment, sawmills, dredging equipment, fishing boats, etc. My Detroits are a cute little 3-53N that ran a torque convertor in a 1969' Little Giant crane; a 4-71N in my 1979' Hein-Werner C-12B excavator (use her every day) and a 6-71N in my 1987' Grove TMS300B crane. I have a full library of Detroit parts and service manuals. The 3-53 series, 71 series, 92 series, the 110 in-lines and even the big 149 series. My best books were a pair of the older books that had REAL pictures and were as thick as two Bibles. An older gentleman that ran a local automotive machine shop (Mr. Calvin) gave me these two books, but when my boss at the local welding shop, Hank (at that time) saw the books and said that they were HIS from when he had worked at a local shop (long gone) that serviced Detroits. Hank claimed that he had LOANED those books to Mr. Calvin (both of them now dead) and I said, "Well you ain't getting them back Hank!!", Mr. Calvin GAVE them to me. Mr. Calvin laughed and said that was right, but it was too late for him to return the books to Hank, they were mine now!! True story!! I'm sixty-five now and I don't know how old you are, but I'm assuming you're a good bit younger than me if you're inquiring about the older Detroits. There's still a few of us Dinosaurs left roaming around and there's several of the older Detroits still in service (glad I don't live in California; they've outlawed almost anything with an engine). HEY, WAKE UP!! You started this thread; I told you that you were opening up a can of worms. It does my heart good to see that some of the younger generation has an interest in the older Detroits. Just like going to the local steam shows and seeing farmers' sons, grandsons and even great grandsons restoring the older tractors (steam engines too), especially the tractors that had been in the family when purchased new decades ago. This has turned into another short story, SORRY!! Thanks to anyone who doesn't fall asleep while reading this. And a warning to EVERYONE on this forum, "I'LL BE BACK!!, with more Detroit stories and pictures (not sure if I can post videos here or not, hence my wanting to start a You-Tube site). Thanks Again!! B.C.
Welcome to the forum! I'm around thirty years younger than you. Would love to hear more of your experiences. You can post videos.
Silicone valve cover gaskets, Quality fronts and rear crank seals, crosshead pistons that could produce 200 HP in a 453. The ones on Timberjacks had tuned exhaust so were way quieter to operate. It was sad that they finally had start to care as a company and discontinued them. Yes they made Silver 6V53, 6V71, 8V92 12V92 in Boats, maybe some others I was not aware of. Simon C
Early models labeled silver didn't have crosshead pistons, just updates stuck on a green engine--plus could be green and still be silver.
In 53 Series they started with turbo and small wrist pin, then went turbo and large wrist pin, then they went to crosshead wrist pin. Yes they were called silver even if not 100%. The crosshead ones had By-pass valves on the blowers to get more boost to the cylinders. They were interesting engines to me at the time. Simon C
As explained to me by a guy who worked for Emerson for several years. When the Silver came out in the 92 Series it was a completely redesigned block, rods plus crank. From there other series were rebranded with minor updates. The original double OO about put them in the ditch, no one trusted the OO and left a bad taste. Even after the 92 Silver hit the market with a 200,000 mile warranty it was a hard sell to many even though there seems to be many out there. So Detroit rebranded with the Silver name to try to get back in the market, with mild updates on remaining engine series. Late 70's early 80's was not a good time for Detroit. I remember seeing lots of 92's setting in back of Emerson with serious issues. And that's grasping from a memory X amount of years old.
Is the cross head pistons stronger?
Is there a way to tell if an engine is a silver externally besides just the paint?
Had some experience with these starters on Hyd Power Packs, mostly powered by V-8 Mercedes, or 6BT Cummins. Leaks and short crank cycle. Cold weather start without coolant heater was more difficult. If I recall correctly, each engine had a hand pump with a long lever to recharge the accumulator if it didn't start after first attempt. Could be very time consuming. At the same location, another type of starter that was on 2ea, 6 cyl Deutz power packs, was a type of Spring Starter [Don't recall the correct term] iirc, made by Lucas,[old!]. easy access and wind up with small crank. I thought this was a better type starter for application. Don't know what reliability was over the long term. At this point in time I don't recall seeing a hydraulic starter on a Detroit, at least where I was working. I would guess there were some somewhere.
IIRC it had to do with piston crown/dome, could be way off. I don't remember if it was a two piece rod. Detroit had more configurations than one thinks.
CrossHead Pistons were made in 2 pieces, and the rod Bolts to the wrist pin. They can withstand more HP, and crosshead 53's had different pulleys on the front, used sometimes different timing of the gear train, Had a whole assortment of different injectors, plus marine packages were very small but super high horsepower such as 6V53 or 12V92. The ones I worked on leaked nothing as compared to the old cork gasket engines, but the bad reputation was already there. Simon C
Looking for some help on my 96 international dt466
Put a post in the truck section. Mekanic will probably answer, he knows those the best.
Thank-You Mr. Wrench for welcoming me to the forum. I can tell by reading the various posts that a lot of these guys are very knowledgeable on the Detroits. I'm learning a lot just reading their posts. About 25 years ago I was about 150 yards into deep mud popping out pines with my excavator when she started vibrating bad. I was afraid to shut her down because it would have taken a good size dozer to get me out if she wouldn't restart, so I chose to crawl her out to where I could work on her and ended up ruining my 4-71's block and crank. Best I could tell after dropping her oil pan and removing bearing caps, I think her center main bearing failed first, then with the crank flexing, she ruined the bearings on either side of the center bearing. Cracked the crank and Jonson & Towers in Baltimore told me that to salvage my block in would have to be line bored and 'saddles' install to repair the bad seats. They said, much cheaper to find a used tested block. So, I got a good used block from an outfit in Blue Springs, Missouri and a standard tested crank from Frontier Parts in Texas. Had to remove the engine in the field, bring it back home to my small garage and did a total out-of-frame rebuild. She's in my 1979' Hein-Werner C12B excavator with over 4600 hours on her, yes, I have sat for over 4600 hours in that excavator. Well, I don't want to turn this into another short story. I've got some pictures somewhere of pulling her out and rebuilding, will put that in another post sometime. Thanks Again for the Welcome!! B.C.
I would love to see the pictures!
When I was young, there was a farmer around us that had some fence rows taken out over several years time. The man that did it had a large CAT trackhoe and a Terex dozer with a root rake on the front. I don't remember the model. He wore ear muffs when he ran it- not sure why? You could hear it before you could see it. I don't know if it had a 71 or a 92 but I do know it was a V8. That was before I cared much about Detroit's.
These Budd Company and Pullman-Standard Company, Westours' McKinley Explorer passenger dome cars still have some side-ways Detroit 6-71 providing primary electrical service. They practically ran 24 hours a day for the 90-day tourist season. Holland America tried re-powering some of them with air-cooled Duetz with mixed results.
Can’t even find a picture of the pancake generator. Here is a marine pancake.
The craziest field in-frame I've done was on a Trackmobile at Tate & Lyle. A Trackmobile is a compact heavy arse machine used to move rail cars at industrial plants. Not really a locomotive, just a small heavy *** tugger. Had a 4-53 in it. Got a call it was missing on a cylinder. Determined it wasn't a fuel or injector problem, pulled the head, found #4 piston didn't come all the way to the top when barring engine, bent push rod. Ok. Dropped the oil pan, the underside and crank looked good. Dropped a new piston and rod in it, buttoned it up, all was well. Left scratching my head why. Couple of months later, same thing, this time it was #2 piston. Ok, *** is going on here? After talking to the truck shop guys, the machine had a vertical exhaust muffler with a 90 elbow on top with an angle cut at end of elbow. Was told they wash the machine down with a fire hose. Oh, now it makes sense. Hydrolock, that's what's bending the pushrods, blasting the exhaust outlet with that fire hose, water goes down to whatever exhaust valve that's open and here we go. Fixed the engine and changed the exhaust. Rigged up what looked like an upside down plumbing P trap on the outlet of the muffler with an upside down angle cut tip on the outlet pipe which I fitted a flapper rain cap. It looked goofy, but they didn't bend any more pushrods.
Not a Detroit but a antique Hall Scott Flap Jack with a early Zoomie header. Cummins built a bunch of 743/855 pancakes too. *
Can you explain more about this unit. It must be a marine generator? Is it mounted sideways because of vertical height? What did they change on the engine to be able to do that? I saw in a manual, a 671 mounted like that but I think it was running a refrigeration compressor like in a rail car. Sound right?
Detroit jargon is “reclined”. That picture is an inclined marine 6-71 propulsion unit with Twin Disc marine transmission. I can’t seem to find a picture of an inclined 6-71 generator application anywhere. 40 KW unit, I believe. They were weird and difficult to work on. Any parts, outside the long block assembly, are virtually unobtainable. Holland America rail division in Anchorage was hoarding what spares they could find.
That has to be one of last 82-80's made with the 2 lift cylinders. The early TC-12 in the video shows the cable version. That would have been an interesting show to see. I wonder if they gave out ear plugs?
I drove a 61 hd hayes with 14 foot bunks and a 6-110 62307rd and it was an absolutely truck to drive
wonderful truck to drive
A lot of people do not like Detroits but many of us fellas enjoyed the sound of a Jimmy in the morning
And a lot more didn't!
Signs on top of pumps in fuel islands of Dudley & Petty in Corning Ca years ago said. {Trucks with Detroit engines PARK in gravel area of back lot}.
One of our mining claims had a ready supply of Mount Meager volcanic ash (~2400 years before present). This is high quality (kitty litter product). Could easily be shovelled strategically under 6-71 powered dozer to catch any 'small drips'. Must confess have not dropped the 1" thick belly pans...so really minimal to ground.
That is funny to me. I was working for an outfit with a herd of 8 V71 high mileage Astos all baby dolled up. One morning the boss told me to get them all started. It was winter time and one could hardly see across the parking lot through all the white smoke. A few hours later he asked me to move them from the fence line on that side of the lot and park them on the other side of the lot and turn them off. A man showed up a few hours later and checked them out. No smoke or oil on the ground and he bought the whole fleet.
I was just able to take some time and read through this article on the 8.2. A really good article. Did many of you guys work on these? It says the injectors where hard to set, any experience? Did you ever see many medium trucks buses, or boats with them? The one I saw was in a road grader. I had heard about them but did not think I would ever see one because they all where in the junk yard!
They were low horsepower and were used in my area in delivery trucks like Liquour Trucks, Mail Trucks, were often bought by government companies because they costed less. Only one guy worked on them at the place I worked at in 1987 and he was working on them regularly. He said they were okay if they had all the updates to the head gaskets and other stuff. Simon C
What model of road grader? That seems like a very bad application for them.
F series Fords and Chevy - GMC' s. Running the rack was a bitch shoved up it the firewall.
I think it was a Gralion A500E the best I can tell. I'm not sure what it sold for.
The most unique sounding engine built. To this day my ears are still tuned into the sounds of Detroit's , i could tell every one of them, especially those 6v53's
6V-53's are the worst!
2800 RPM is one the reasons for the excessive noise. They have an 'angry sound' tone changes with each shift
82-80 DA
I went to school on them. I have a training certificate somewhere in the archives of my life. The governors were next to impossible to get right. Everyone I touched ended up hunting, when I finished. Up and down, up and down. I got good at it. I could make them hunt like nobody else. Boat captains loved it when idling into the dock.
8.2's do not sound like that. More like the turd that they are.
They are a 4 stroke.
They all kind of have their own sound. The 71's sound deeper then the 53's. Still like to hear them both though. My favorite is a 671. Hard to beat the sound of any bigger inline 6 cylinder.
Why are they your worst?
They rev. higher and just really scream! I knew a guy that had 6 P&H excavators with 6V-53's. He wore a hearing aid. They revved at 2650 RPM in that application. He went to Hitachi excavators and they were 1700 RPM Isuzu's and even had a radio you could listen too without having to crank it way up.
Yes, 6 cylinders running at higher RPMs is more noise. Like I said at the beginning, I have not had to send all day in a machine with one in it. I can see how day after day in a machine that had a noise to torque ratio that was not equal could drive a guy mad.
Setting in the cab of trucks built years ago with little insulation/sound deadener, at the end of 600 plus miles you felt like you were pulled through a knot hole backwards and looked like the hind wheels of hard luck.
One guy not to far from me had a 8V-53. Plugs and muffs is almost bearable. Simon C
That would be worse!
I have never seen a 8V-53. Is that the biggest 53 series they made?
My service manual shows it to be the largest, was there any others, could not say for sure but that part I can say forsure on the 8V53. They are a wet sleeve engine with 2 -453 heads.. Military used them quite a bit in their larger trucks and who knows what else. Simon C
My dad had 6v-53 in his 1965 Chevy C80 dump truck, I use to love riding in that thing as a kid and the smell of the exhaust. Now I know why I have Tinnitus at age 15. Driving the 12v-71 for 20 more years probably didn't help but at least I wore earmuffs.
8V53 was Mainly military, Peterbilt did in a few in some model 341 vocational trucks
A lot of the west coast commercial fishing fleet are powered by 53 series.
Also there were a few experimental 12V53's built . I think when it got to 8 & 12 cylinder 53' series engines it did not make since when 6-71's & 8V71's made the same Horsepower. Attached is a video link of 12V53 running, someone in you tube comments referred to it as "Tasmanian Devil'
According to what I found the 12V53 was capable of 400 hp. But the weight ratio to hp wasn't there. So 12V71's were way more practical at 450 to 900 hp to weight ratio. Plus it look like there weren't that many built and only built from 1965 to 1968.
It didn't look like that guy had ear plugs and that 12V-53 likely sets the record for worlds loudest factory diesel engine.
The rate of acceleration is definitely good, like about 1 second from idle to full RPM. Sounded very good. Simon C
Is that typical (rate of acceleration) for a 2 stroke Detroit? I do know that when I release the de-accelerator on the 6-71 in our dozer the rpm increases almost instantly...Personally I kind of like the sound, but seems we have a good muffler on the unit. Also I have really good ear muffs. Sure can't imagine liking this power plant in a truck though! I remember that lope at idle from riding Greyhound buses years ago...surprisingly ours idles dead smooth; not sure why.
Idling very smoothly means the buffer screw is in the perfect amount. The better the cylinders are firing will affect it also. Cannot increase the engine RPM by more than 25 RPM or they run away,(buffer screw adjustment I mean). Simon C
That engine had short straight pipes too. Imagine that engine in something like a tractor puller under constant load at full throttle. Would probably be on par with a top fuel dragster!
I know this has been talked about before, but I thought that it would be easier to just ask here than search for it. What oil should I use in a 6v53?
Haven’t we beat this dead horse, enough? You only have a couple choices in 2026. Amiright? I can talk about oil all day. Mobil 1 Delvac 1240 SAE 40W CF-2.
Fresh from the tap!
Does any one have any links to threads of the last conversations on the correct oil? I would like to read them, but am having trouble finding any. Oil suppler is still trying to see if they can get it. Must be kind of hard to get.
HeavyEquipmentForums Chevron 100 SAE 40wt is another option.
Delo 100 40wt is what we feed our old girl...she seems to like it. We don't really run it in the winter.
Shell supposedly has a low ash 40wt CF-2 they claim meets spec, but I hear complaints about foaming and oil pressure drops. Like no distinguishable readings on the OP gauge kinda thing. More noticeable blowby and slobbering from the air boxes. The Mobile and Chevron are both good choices. I think there is less slobber out the airbox drains with the Chevron, but that’s just a hunch from personal observation.
Good info, thanks for that...idling (avoid mainly) oil pressure around 7-8psi if I recall.
I actually had to buy some Delo 100 SAE 40 last year. I have one customer with a 16V92. O'Reilly said they had it but when I ordered it they said whoops they don't have enough but later they came up with some and we did the service. We'll see how it is this year.
Must need a good size fuel tank for that thing. What would it be in other than generator big boat, or old rock truck maybe. Just guessing. Simon C
Eats too much fuel but too expensive to replace.
It is in a standby generator, 800 kw. It has a relatively small fuel tank, we have to 100% load test it each year for two hours, it drops many inches from that run.
It actually runs enough as a stand by unit to need a full service every year?
It hardly ever runs but it does get load tested per customer requirements. And the last time it had been serviced was 2018.
Local hospital removed the old backup gen unit some years ago, a huge Waukesha. hardly any hours on it mostly from testing. Was told it had under 500 hours on it.
Seen a Mine in Northern Ontario that shut down with a Cat 3512 Engine 20 years old with 600 hours on it. They left in elements without doing right thing and junked. I found another Detroit 8V71 Generator at another place shut down for 10 years, seized solid. No can on exhaust stack that was horizontal for the wind to blow right through. Simon C
I had one customer had me commission a nice used 4BTA genset, that was jacket water aftercooled. Had a Stanadyne pump on it. He left the area not long after, don't know what happened to that generator. I figure that little engine would have made a great pickup engine with the aftercooler and all. Never seen another one quite like it.
I saw a 671 generator sell in December that came out of an Air Force base. I don't remember the hours, but I think it was less than 1000 or just over. You could tell it was in an enclosure. You could not have found a nicer one anywhere! The data plate on the generator head looked like it did when it left the factory. Neat to see things like that.
I don't recall whether it has an aftercooler, but we have a 4BT with Stanadyne pump and Onan 480V generator end at one of our mines. It powers shaft dewatering pumps and is on standby waiting for the mine to be restarted.
This is the link to the oil we are going to use in the 6V53 that I am servicing. https://stores.buy1oils.com/engine-...q7w8ne8Gc1DJA8P03pFYoVqKcxc9EYgH0ArMDYKsJ2SuB Don't know if it is good or not, but it seems to meet the specs. I don't know what it cost, they paid for it. The auto parts store could only get me Rotella. Looks like this oil is made for Detroits or at least marketed like that.
Expensive, and works.
Flexing with your Gucci lube. I approve this message. I forget about Schaeffer. What happened to Tuney443? We haven’t seen him in a long time.
I just got a bunch of gallons of Delo 100 for a 16V92 I had to service, from O'Reilly. I forgot what it cost, but it was available. First they told me they did not have the stock that their computer said they had. Then it showed up at my shop.
This guy does a nice job explaining--how Ed S. showed my years ago, Ed was a Emerson Detroit mechanic in way past years. *
I still have a Detroit injector height tool. At 67 years old, don't expect to ever use it again.
Amazing just how many are still around.
Heck, I've still got the OTC tool for adjusting the cast steel twin disk clutch adjusting ring. I might as well toss that tool as well, don't expect to ever use it again either.
I have a collection of Eaton transmission tools, manual gear boxes are going extinct about as quick as the asteroid that ended the cretaceous period.
I have an almost new Cummins 855 valve adjusting wrench in my tool box. Here is a collection of engine tools I made over the years:
I made quite a few tools some small and some large. *
Crash boxes are going extinct because drivers have been going extinct for years now. The last driver we hired on, drove for TMC and others, but only autos. Me and two other drivers tried to teach him how to drive a manual, just not happening, I've never seen anyone who just can not get it, but that's him. Riding with him was like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. We had to purchase a '22 Pete 567 with auto so didn't destroy our 579.
That's only part of it, longevity and fuel mileage are the other two big factors. And even the old drivers for the company don't want to drive a manual anymore, these are drivers with 40 years experience. The world is/has gotten lazy Willie.
Word.
That was a good video. The best I have ever had it explained. The man really seemed to know what he is doing. From what I could tell it goes in a bus that they turned into a skoolie. Is that the way the Jack brake is usually activated?
Just a suggestion. Don't just throw away your old engine tools. Some of them are NLA. Advertise them or try to get them in the hands of someone that would still use them. While they may not be use on common things today there are people here and there that still have a need for that stuff from time to time. If you older/experienced guys don't pass on your knowledge alot of it dies with you. Same with older tools. If you don't get it in the hands of someone that will use it, your kids won't know what it is, and it will just go in the trash.
Good thoughts. My kiddo will probably never do engine work like I did, but I know another young fella that I’ll gift my specially stuff too and he will appreciate it and put it to use.
Crash box---I never called them crash boxes, I guess it's because I never forced any shifts. It's been awhile since I've driven with a auxiliary, but I don't think It would take more than a couple hundred yards to get it back. * I left before just before 7 tonight taking one to La Grand, just under 200 miles rt, back at yard at 10:40.
I have to confess, about the last decade of my career, they had a computer system that would run the train. I called it "the robot". It was something like CNC, you enter length, tons, axles, and other pertinent information and it did ever thing but start and stop. It worked well enough on the high priority stack trains I ran and I was really disappointed when it didn't work.
I get it. The interesting part is the thought that electronic control is the ruination, but reality is everyone likes it to some degree. Remove the laser or gps and see what occurs. People have grown accustom to pushbutton life. Computer engine controls have been around since the 60's in mass with Bosch's D Jetronic fuel injection system, which telescoped in every direction. So it was only time before a vehicle or equipment would follow with very little physical/mental output from operator to almost zero. If only the Donner Party had gps. * Below is a Freightliner DT12 shift stalk column mounted. Button on end has three modes, auto/economy, manual, performance. In manual mode lift the stalk to to upshift, push down to downshift. Performance mode tells it to have higher rpm levels between upshifts. To operate Jake, pull stalk back towards driver. There are three braking levels with DD13, 15, 16, continue to pull back for each level. All modes being used are displayed in dash screen. To descend a 6% grade 7 miles long using jake with a GVW of 100,000 as a example. Push button to bring up manual mode, pull stalk to level three all the way back. When rpm drops to 1300, push the stalk down to down shift to 11, 10, 9, 8, & 7th. Letting rpm fall to a minimum of 1300 for each downshift, applying airbrakes at same time. Once leveled off at 7th gear it will use nothing but engine retardation at roughly 2000 rpm all the way to bottom without using any air brake application @ 40 mph. Once at bottom of grade flip stalk forward and push button for auto mode, and go back to sleep. Sounds like allot, but really isn't.
We had a 60 series unit in our building. It would run 30 mins a month and a couple hours a year. Was in a heated room with additional heaters keeping coolant and oil at near operating temp.
Still plenty of 855s out there.
Any decent lube distributor will have some version (I'm not familiar with other brands) of Delo 100 30 and 40wt. Plenty of Detroits still in use. We sell a few drums a month. Places like Schucks, Napa, etc cater more to Johnny DIYer and not the shop using several hundred gallons of 15w40 and 5w30 TO-4 a week.
What was your generator backup power for?