I have a D3G 2005 Cat Dozer. The engine is the Cat 3046T six-cylinder. It is used on a farm in Kentucky and I use the red dyed off-road diesel versus the low sulfur diesel for sale to use for non-agricultural applications. The off-road diesel does not have to meet the low sulfur requirements of the on-road diesel. The off-road diesel may contain as much as 500 ppm sulfur while the on-road diesel cannot exceed 15 ppm sulfur. My question is, " will the off-road diesel with the high sulfur levels cause problems for the engine?
Your D3 has an old enough engine not to care, but i'm 99% sure that with the introduction of offroad IT4 engines all diesel is now ULSD. I've read that ULSD has lower lubricity and some say this can cause excessive wear in older injection pumps. I haven't found anything definitely confirming the second part, but i haven't been looking.
I had my OFF-ROAD tank filled a couple of weeks ago. My supplier told me that he couldn't get the old type diesel anymore. He said everything was Ultra-Low now. He said to make sure and add a lubricant to it to make the injection pump last. He said that he has heard many bad stories of the IP giving it up due to the ULSD.
Yep no such thing as LSD anymore its all ULSD and adding something for lubrication is a good idea, but kind of overkill generally speaking.
I had a replace a Bosch ve pump on my Hyundai 130 lc3 about 3 months ago. I have only been running off road fuel with power service and two stoke oil added. The pump failed because of water in the fuel. I had over 5 gallons water and algae in the tank. I tried to burn the stuff with a torch. I'm not the only one in my area having problems. I drained my other machines they had water in them to. I talked to a mechanic at local dealer they are having problems with water in fuel.I don't know if its a local problem only but my neighbor gets on road fuel from different suppler and his machine has water in it.
Thanks to all. So it is all ULSD now. One other point to add. I have a 2010 JD 5055D utility tractor and the manual for it "Strongly suggests the use of ULSD". I called the dealer to see if this was to just encourage low emissions or whether the more recent engines are designed for low sulfur and high sulfur may cause problems. He thought the injectors would be damaged by high sulfur. Thus, I have been using the on-road ULSD in it.
Dozerboy is right. Everything is ULSD now. What nobody tells you thou is that the ULSD tends to pick up sulfur from the pipelines which it is pushed through. The pipeline steel has become impregnated with sulfur from the older diesel as well as gasoline going through it for years and years. When the LSD comes through it comes back out of the steel in to the fuel. If you are worried about lubrication a quart of ATF to a 100 gallons of fuel does the trick.
The ULSD IS CAUSING premature IP failure! I see it with my own eyes EVERYDAY. Especially with the Bosch VE type pumps. It causes the housing to wear out SO BAD that it needs to be replaced, at a tune of about $400.00 per housing! Its gotten SO BAD that the factory cant supply the hgs fast enough and they are on back-order. I have boxes full of worn-out hsgs, in the hopes I'll find someone to repair them. [no luck so far]
Run a reputable diesel additive in every tank and you will be fine.Over at the Diesel Place, an additive study was conducted a couple years ago if you want to go with the very best products from the in depth testing.I run Schaeffer's fuel treat from my Dmax to my excavating iron with EVERY fill.Stay away from ATF,hydraulic oil,2 stroke oil,used engine oil,and any other ''witches brew'' that might have been slightly OK to use on older mechanically injectored engines,certainly not OK for modern electronic computerized engines.
Inyati - in reality off-road diesel is just on-road diesel with a dye in it so it be identified as fuel on which certain taxes have not been paid. For example in your area I'd bet that both types come out of the same refinery and the dye is added to the off-road fuel at the point it is loaded at the refinery into the tanker that delivers it to your local fuel distributor....... Regarding use of 500ppm LSD in an engine designed to use 15ppm ULSD the most likely result is poor injector life (fuel system component life in general really) and poor oil analysis results. Soot will be higher, this will cause premature wear in iron/steel components. Also sulphation will be higher, this will result in acid attack on things like crankshaft & camshaft bearings. Keith, if you had "5 gallons of water" in the tank are you saying that 5 gallons was delivered in one specific delivery by your fuel supplier or do you think it accumulated over time. How often do you drain your water separator on the tank..? There is a very simple test for water in fuel, we test every delivery and if we find a trace of water in our diesel the whole load goes back, even if there is water in only one compartment of a 6-compartment tank trailer. Algae is possible at any tank installation. If you think it's coming from the supplier have a sample pulled from a load (or loads) of fuel before it's dumped into your tank to check for algae, or ask the supplier to have his depot tanks checked for algae. In all my experience I can't recall test results finding algae either in a specific delivery or in the tanks at the fuel distributors' depots. Often algae can start from airborne spores entering a storage tank through the vent(s) on top of the tank, a good reason in my opinion to use a dessicant breather at that location. A good biocide will fix the algae, heat will do nothing for it.
Good reading. I've been running ULSD for the last couple hundred hours, hope its not to late to start premixing.
Ok lets not blame the VE pumps being POS on ULSD. They where failing long before ULSD.
But why let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh....?
I don't think it came from one tank of fuel. I pickup from local stations a 100 gallons at a time. I filter fuel from tank with a Cim-Tek 200 Series Fuel Filter. I'm thinking it has to do with the way they store there fuel hear in Arkansas and missouri. They have above the above ground storage tanks. I think it causes alot more condensation. I have never had fuel problems with any of my machines till i moved hear 18 months ago. I added a biocide to my fuel when i started seeing algae when draining water separator on tank and machine.The only problem i see with biocide is the dead algae was still in fuel. I had to remove the bottom access port off the fuel tank on the excavator to clean the tank out. My neighbor gets on road fuel from different suppler in Missouri and his has water and algae in it.
Keith, is there any way you can incline your supply tank away from the fuel outlet so that the supply line is higher than the other end of the tank. Then you could install a drain valve at the "low" end. As water in the fuel settles it will naturally run to drain valve. Drain the water once a week and you should be fine. If you're afraid of condensation within the tank caused by drawing damp air in while you are drawing fuel out then a dessicant breather in the vent is the way to go. Obviously it'll be easier to take action regarding your storage tank and as a result keep water/algae out of your machines than it will to have to sort out individual machines.
That sounds like the best way to go. I'm going to incline my tank and install valve on low end. Thanks for your help.
We've been running ULSD ever since it had replaced LSD and we don't add anything to it, and we haven't had any fuel related problems since then. The only way you will have problems is if you have an injection pump that uses fuel for lubrication. The newer pumps on pickups use fuel for lubrication but they are made to run on ULSD. You wont have any problems with Bosch P-Pumps or similar designs since they are lubricated with engine oil.
Excellent information. Thanks.
Can anyone recommend a good fuel biocide?
We have some in the shop that worked pretty good when we had problems with it. I'll have to look at the bottle. We haven't had to use it in a year or two.
It's called Killem. We had filters getting plugged up all the time and this stuff did the trick
This diagram should help you. Obviously the angle of inclination will depend on the tank. I'm sure this diagram is exaggerated for effect but it gives you the idea. As to how much to incline it I would suggest to do the following. You're going to have to drain the tank anyway to make the modifications to the valves and fittings. After you've installed the necessary valves for the water drain, incline the tank "too far", then put 10 gallons of fuel in it. That's double the volume of water that you mentioned previously having drained out of the tank. Leave the valve at the supply end open. Then slowly lower the high end until you start to see fuel coming out of the supply end. That means you have created 10 gallons of "dead space" in your tank for water to accumulate, so there should not be much chance of you ever getting water out the supply line if you drain the tank on a frequent basis. I would also strongly recommend a dessicant breather on the top vent. That will prevent you sucking damp air into the tank that will produce condensation and cause water to accumulate at the bottom of the tank.