The reality Employers have a duty to protect workers and the public from dangers caused by their work - and HSE is committed to making sure they do that. But health and safety isn’t entirely someone else's responsibility. We all have a duty to keep ourselves safe, by co-operating with safety measures and not putting ourselves or others in danger. This is just common sense - something we all use every day. It's important that we aren’t put at risk by other people’s actions, but if we ignore our own responsibilities, real risks can get missed. Playing the blame game doesn't keep people safe - better to rely on common sense and co-operation.
here in america, people are no longer responsible for their actions. i see this on the job with the new, younger generation. i watch over my brothers and sisters in the trades but i can't see everything.
Well said Stock. As employees we are responsible to work safe and we are responsible to practice "due diligence". There are laws in place to protect the worker. In our Regulations an employee has 3 basic rights, the right to participate in solving any health and safety problems in the work place, the right to know of any unsafe work conditions, proper training etc, and the right to refuse dangerous work. Unfortunately many employees are not aware of these rights. As well there are many workers out there that do know this but ignore it. I give you an example...Any training course that I provide, these employees rights are discussed. I have heard many horror stories of employees placed in dangerous situations. They won't refuse because they need the work and have families to provide for etc. I hear this a lot. Bottom line is though .. it is your right and no one can be fired for refusing dangerous work. There are steps to follow..read up on it in the OHS Regulations. That should create some discussion..
I read the wonderful state of New South Wales in the Down Under is the third most litigious state in the world after New York and Californication. I think that it should read "morons, stupid people and druggos are no longer responsible for their own action" responsible people with insurance policies will be considered prey. Maybe I've got a bad attitude about this but it seems there is always somebody else to blame. I was on a site with a client (who is also an engineer) today. We got the laser and spent about an hour working out where the stuff up was in the building of his three units. In the end we found a whole raft of things the builder has screwed up and failed to take due care with. The engineer found a problem with one of his drawings that I used at the getgo to build retaining walls. Although it was his error I still can't believe I didn't pick up the error and I told him I had some responsibility in the matter. He laughed at me and told me in all the building sites he works on no contractor ever comes out and tells the truth. :beatsme He's off with a defect list to bash the builder.......after handing me another 20-30 Grand of work on a plate.....he was still laughing when he drove off.
I'm pretty sure qball is being facetious, and I have to agree with the statement. Here in the States we have a surplus of libel attorneys (many are called ambulance chasers) who are at the ready to pounce on any entity they feel might have enough money for a profitable lawsuit. They'll take a completely idiotic act and make someone a victim of their own stupidity, winning a huge award in the process. A simple lawn mower has become so technically difficult to use it's ridiculous, all because some morons will stick their hands under the deck while it is running, or mow their lawn in flip flops or sandals. But they aren't responsible for their own stupidity. I'll agree employers have a responsibility to provide a safe work environment, but individuals have a responsibility to themselves not to put themselves in a hazardous position. No matter how safe you make an area, someone will find something stupid to hurt themselves. I think it was Bill Engvall who said "You can't fix stupid".
Don't know how many times I have read this to people I could have saved a life that day, But I choose to look the other way, It wasn’t that I didn’t care, I had the time, and I was there. But I didn’t want to seem a fool, Or argue a safety rule. I knew he’d done the job before, If I called it wrong, he might get sore. The chances didn’t seem that bad, I’ve done the same, he knew I had. So I shook my head and walked on by, He knew the risks as well as I. He took the chance, I closed an eye, And with that act, I let him die. I could have saved a life that day, But I choose to look the other way. Now every time I see his wife, I know I should have saved his life. That guilt is something I must bear, But it isn’t something that you share. If you see a risk that others take, That puts their health or life at stake. The question asked, or thing you say, Could have them live another day. If you see a risk and walk away, Then I hope you never have to say, I could have saved a life that day, But I chose to look the other way. does this ring a bell with anyone?
I have a grat story about ambulance chasers andbums of his sort. Whn I was young I was delivering pizza, and puled ino a gas station to fill up. I left the station behind another car, and pulled out onto Rt 30 asti oter car had. All of a sudden, this person jamms thebrakes an I tap them.Going about 5 mph, so we pull over and I appologize, offer to come over to buff the minor scratches out and not bother wih the police and insurance companies, as our rates will undoubtably raise for both of us. No, they insisted on calling 911,as 350lbs momma ran 50 yards to the phone, sister and daughter walked to the mini golf course(1.3 miles down 30) to tell brother and papa stayed and waited for everyone + FEMA to show up with ligths and sirens. After momma and papa refused treatment, the police sent us on our way. 3 months later my insurace co. calls saying momma,papa, sister, daughter and of all people the SON have severe neck/spine/back TRAUMA!!!! He wan't even in the car. I had 250k insurance and it must have lit up the dollar signs in their heads. All while I had to listen these vultures talk about how the Lord works in mysterious ways...sheesh. Needless to say I ddn't have to pay any expenses to fix their car.
thanks, steve.
qball, let me clarify my previous post. The discussion I mean't was "the right to refuse dangerous work" as I thought it might have generated some examples of situations that some of the members might have been in. I was just confused by this statement thats all. Hence the smilie
I have a story that relates to this topic, although it is not about heavy equipment, it is still construction related. I was building a 61 unit townhome project that 2 and 3 story units mixed throughout the project. Wanting to provide a simple fall protection system to cover everyone that has to work on the roof, I did some research and found a metal roof bracket that can be mounted on the first run of decking while standing inside the building before the rest of the roof decking is installed. This bracket has a place for 2 2x12 walkboards, toeboard and 2x4 handrails, you mount the bracket and then install the wood components. This system allows fall protection for all the workers that have to be on the roof and the roofing can also be installed, remove the brackets and handrail and complete the bottom few courses of shingles. We were framing the first building and I brought the brackets out and had a safety meeting, using the manufacturers instructions, to explain how to install them. You would have thought I asked the framers to all put on pink tu-tu's and dance around on the highway. The amount of bitching, moaning and smart ass comments was enough to just lay down the law and say "my way or the highway". Fast forward to the second building. The framers installed all the rafters, first run of decking and the guardrail system. They were in the process of decking the rest of the roof when one of the guys was walking a 4x8 sheet of plywood up to the ridge and a gust of wind caught the plywood, pushing the guy back down the roof and off of his feet - you guessed it he slid all the way down the roof and was stopped from a 20' fall to the ground by the guardrail. I went from being the "safety nazi" to being thanked over and over by this guy and his fellow workers. It doesn't stop here. I had to change framing crews 1/2 through the project and went through the same training and bitching as before. Lo and behold, the exact same thing happened again while decking the roof on one building. Only this time it was a 3 story unit where the guy would have fell 30' plus. Needless to say the remaining two buildings these guys framed had some of the best built guardrails around.
I have to agree with qball and steve on this. Seems like everyone is so worried about being sued and or getting hit with higher rates from the insurance companies that we now have to "dumb things down" so much so that now it requires 30 steps and a mile of paper work just to wipe your nose. I'm all for safety and watching out for eachother, but you shouldn't have to put a label on a coffee cup that says "Caution contents could be hot". No kidding, and knives are sharp? Who knew!? :beatsme There's this thing called natural selection, where those not smart enough to adapt to their surroundings are purged from the bloodpool... I think we need to bring back common sense and stop babysitting those who are a danger to themselves and others. Just my two cents.
JimBruce42, I can see your point as Steve said, you can't fix stupid. All you can do is provide the training and the tools that they need to work safely. Have your "safety talks" and document these talks, as it will help protect you against liabilities. It would be very hard to continually watch your workers at all times and also do your job. Any employee that has a total disregard for safety or is just an accident looking for a place to happen then, maybe someone should think of a solution. The post by CM1995 is a good example of an employer practicing due diligence to keep his crews safe. My hat is off to you Sir. Very well could have been lives lost in that situation. Look at the lesson that was learned. My opinion, and I have seen this many times...people try to cut corners, get the job done as quickly and as cost effective as possible, and I can see the logic in that..but..everything is good until someone gets hurt. Then the :shf Just my 02 cents
Safety is number one as long as it doesn't cost money
Correction: Safety is number one, no matter what the cost. If you have to spend $100,000 on guardrails on a site, it is way cheaper than spending several million on lawsuits, and OSHA fines.
here we have not gotten into the large legal payouts $50,000 is the largest one that I have heard of. Enviromental fines are more than negligent ones. Alot of companies here take the safety talk but complain, when they have to update their safety vest or hard hats.I do not approve of the large legal settlements you have in the US but I guess they do have their benifits.
You are so right,... or were..... Slowly the wheels have turned and safety has become the top priority before ANYTHING else. It is still taking time for lower levels of the gene pool ( see the roofers in earlier post ) to understand that just because iron workers walked along beams high in the sky in the 50's does not mean that they have to do it like that now. Senior managers now know that they answer to directors who can and will end up in court and even jail if somebody gets seriously injured or killed on one of thier sites, that makes it much easier to make safety the TOP priority rather than just giving it lip service. Still the problem is getting that message through to some of the old school ( me included). The newer younger guys seem better as they have not been raised and bred on the go, go, go attitude of previous generations. :my2c
Everyone has the right to go home at the end of the day. In theory the cost of a safe workplace is non factor, as every workplace has the same as their competitors. In reality though there are still places where safety is seen as a cost burden and that's why we need OH&S inspectors to make sure everyone plays by the rules. One of the worst culprits is the agricultural sector, where money and time is always short. Some of the equipment is ancient or has been modified to make it do the job quicker, safety shields are routinely removed to make servicing quicker. Heavy loads have to be shifted by hand, power tools are used daily, often in confined spaces. People work at heights with no safety harnesses in all kinds of weather. Climbing on and off machinery with no grab rails. I could go on for quite a while yet but it was the use of chemicals without proper gear that got to me in the end. After filling up the air seeder one day I jumped back in the cab and looked down at my trouser, the bottom half of which where red with chemicals used to treat the seeds and I just thought, I've had enough.
Was at seminar recently about safety, and as the only work on going here is state work ,the umbrella representative bodies are looking to have the Health & safety budget separated from the main price of the contract, so the safety management, traffic management, ppe etc are considered a fix cost between all tenderer's.This would ensure properly resourced safety on all jobs with but would allow the HSA to be stricter on breaches and the judicial system like wise.The argument that safety costs to much would then be null and void . Stock
When the safety package is left at the hands of the contractor...or sub-contractor this gets my Goat. I have lost tenders to cheaper bids...and when I saw what they did for safety it was a joke. We often work on the verge, footpath and in the street and we run with a fair amount of procedural stuff and equipment......then I see a fat guy with a lollipop stick on the street (cigarette in corner of mouth) sorting of getting in the way of the traffic, occaisionally. ...no safety barriers...no communication..and no pedestrian controls. What makes it worse is some of these jobs are for the government. ointhead I'd like to see the safety package separated on some of our bigger bids.
ok.. let's way may put it that way... men should take their own individual responsibilities while working.. but there is not enough safety measures and equipment in a given company.. there is this big responsibility a company would take should there be any accidents. SPAM REMOVED