I bought this Grove-RT60S rough terrain crane. http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Grove-Crane/ In that webpage, I have included a couple of pictures of wire rope. It seems to be rusted and may need to be replaced. I wanted to know what you guys think, do I need a new wire rope or not. Thanks
W Yes, Especially if you are doing any picking with people around on the hook end. You are only seeing the surface rust. No telling where there is a spot that is rotted internally from where the moisture got repeatedly wet and dried. The only way I would use that cable was if on a clam shell or something that did not matter if it dropped.
Thanks a lot. I also suspected as much. Do any people here know a good place where I can buy good wire rope, maybe online to save a little bit? My manual says I need 720 feet of rope. Thanks
I wouldn't even pick the hook with that, lol. If I was in a pinch and didn't need the full pull, I would unspool the first layer, cut it off and rerig. But as OIH sez, not with anybody working near a pick. What part of the world are you in, might be better off to go local, at least you know what you're getting and have someone to yell at if there are any issues?
OK, it turns out that I only needed 350 feet. I bought 350 ft of 1/2" 19x7 wire rope from uscargocontrol.com, which I used a lot to buy trucking supplies. Next question, lubrication (so that the new rope would not rust out): I have a lot of new and used hydraulic oil, can I just use that to saturate the wire rope with hydraulic oil? And then reapply maybe every year?
We never ever lubricated wire rope. It was changed often enough to never need it. We did lube pennent lines on the stick cranes. Ask your cable supplier to give you the handbook on care of their cable.
Please baby Jesus dont let me be within 5 miles of any of this guy's lifts.
Which guy?
Not trying to be rude but you come across as having zero knowledge about cranes. When inexperianced people and cranes get together, equipment failure, injuries, and death results far to frequently. There is a reason why cranes need yearly certifications in most states and operators need crane certificates. Not sure what you are going to use this machine for but please read the manual, understand the charts, and get a experianced crane operator to work with you for a while. Your life could depend on it.
I think that you are right and you do not come across as rude. I am reading up on crane safety and operation right now and will try to his someone to show us the ropes. I am a scrapper and will use this crane for scrapping. not for construction.
Nice find ichudov , I like it :thumbsup Should come in handy in your operation not to mention customers will be asking you to set something at times with it . Grove web site has some information on it . This is for an RT60S , scroll down to the bottom and cable specs are in the blue chart depending on what winch it has . http://www.manitowoccranes.com/~/me... Terrain Models/RT60/RT60S-Specifications.pdf Load & boom chart for RT60S . http://www.manitowoccranes.com/~/me...ough Terrain Models/RT60/RT60S-Capacities.pdf Grove is also pretty good about servicing older units as far as parts go . You need to find out who the dealer is in your area , give them the serial # , and they can tell you exactly what it is . Good luck with it .
The second document is priceless! (I already had the first one). Thank you!!! I am very aware that 1) cranes are dangerous and 2) There is a lot of potentially dangerous things that are not obvious. I am trying to learn as much as I can and I am generally a careful person.
Cool ichudov ! These internet forums seem to be polluted with the whole " safety culture " nonsense . It gets a bit over the top at times . If someone is scared of there job then they need to look elsewhere for employment & get over it . I don't put up with it & neither do my customers . Hell ....... It's dangerous getting out of bed in the morning to mow the grass . Best of luck with the RT60 .
I second that , I've seen lots of guys with all the training in the world do things that make you wonder how they survive brushing there teeth in the morning without choking them selves, or on the other end of the scale one of the best operators I ever worked with was a iron worker that got sick of driving to the city every day, one day quit and bought a small crane and started a business .He was a guy that just had a ton of common sense and a gift with machinery. Become a student of what you are doing and always keep in mind the fact that mistakes can more than likely cost a life or serious injury. Best of luck to you
td25c, I agree with you in general, for example about forklifts and so on, too many scaredy cats out there giving advice. But, at the same time, cranes are special, because they lift things high in the air, people hooking things up may also work high in the air, and if something goes wrong, the consequences are so much bigger than for forklifts. Plus, forklifts usually do not come close to power lines!
OK, you got me, I am curious, how well did that iron worker do with his crane business?
Great! he was the go to guy for trusses and jobs that needed a small crane, he did all of our work till he retired then I bought my first boom truck and progressively learned the job, but i take it very seriously and as my cranes got bigger I made sure I educated myself accordingly, by taking some formal training and reading everything I could get my hands on. Im the first to agree that not everyone has the common sense and the God given ability to do what I and MANY others have, but that doesn't mean that some-one with the drive does not deserve the same chance that I have had . And I'm not trying to be an ass, but There is way too many pin heads with clip boards telling us working folks how to live our lives. regards Tradesman
I understand, but we have all seen close calls that nearly resulted in injury. And there are so many life changing or life ending accidents that are preventable, when it comes to rigging, better to be on the safe side. Everyone always thinks it will never happen to them.
That's cool Tradesman ! My background story is very similar to yours on the crane side . Got to know the local crane guy while working as a truck/equipment mechanic in my early 20's . Then after I branched out in to excavating we would use him when we needed a crane . About 8 years ago ended up buying one of his hydro rigs for our own jobs . That worked out great for us plus I enjoy it . Then last summer bought the remaining rigs & parts inventory . Keep up the good work Tradesman .
Well said Buckethead . I agree totally . A crane operator has some skin in the game . As an owner operator we have all of it on the line . But then again a lot of trades are like this and can be just as dangerous . A job is only as dangerous as we make it , whatever you are doing . All in all crane operators are some of the safest best organized people I've been around . I'm to the point now where I don't worry about the job site itself , if I don't like how a job is going we just stop & regroup as needed . Where we are most likely to have an accident is when moving to & from jobs on the road . I'm glad you chimed in on this Buckethead . I done a little digging in the archive's this afternoon & came up with some Grove manuals for ichudov's RT60 crane . PM me a mailing address or P.O. box number if interested ichudov and I will send them your way .
t25c, thank you very much! I PM'ed you. Regarding safety, I think that all of us owner operators know that our careers last until the first serious accident. We are all mindful of that.
yeah ichudov . Read through & enjoy them . Just be careful ...... you might get to like it a little to much . You aint gonna go wrong with the big G crane with operators & service manuals Bro. Follow the rules & it's all good .
Follow the rules & it's all good . [/QUOTE] That says it all!
Absolutely old-iron-habit .:thumbsup Now the Grove operators safety hand book is geared more for grove TMS truck cranes but many of the procedure's will still apply . Should at least make for a good start learning about the machine . Hell , I'm just glad I found the manuals before the wife did as she would have gave them a toss
Guys, I was messing around the shop today and found a 1/2 wire rope sling. I put it up to secure the load block for truck transport. Take a look at the picture. It is attached securely to the crane and is somewhat taut, but not super tight. You can see that if you look at the picture. Both ends are secured from accidental disconnection. http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Grove-Crane/20150719_103519.jpg.html Would you say that this is "secure" enough for truck transport and driving around the yard? Thanks
One thing to remember is to always use a shackle (screwed pin) and not a clevis (pin has a snap pin holding it in) when hoisting. Clevis's can spread much easier and come unhooked if caught on something. Also required by our beloved safety regs is a safety latch on all hooks. Your hook on your ball is set up correct.
Good point. So, old-iron, would you personally put this crane on a semi trailer an drive with it, you would think that the hook is secured well enough as shown on picture?
If I were hauling it would probably rig it something like this & snug up the block . This would keep the block secure plus be added tie down for the boom . That's a nice truck & trailer set up ! Perfect for the Crane .
This is a great idea! This is my truck and lowboy trailer, I use it for everything! Forklifts and machinery. It is a very lovely trailer, very old (1981), but basically without rust. I used to have a homemade gasoline hydraulic unit on it, until I put a PTO hydraulic unit on the truck.
I like your trailer , Like you say it can haul everything with the folding tail ramp . That's a handy rig & looks to be in great shape . We still use an old 25 ton lacrosse lowboy for moving iron . It's a 1951 vintage .... Rock & Roll music was in it's birth when that trailer came off the assembly line . LOL ! She still works fine . HeavyEquipmentForums
Those things are so heavy duty, they just would not die! I spray the underside of my semi trailer with hydraulic oil, it works well to keep rust at bay. i
You have your wedge socket wrong on the crane. You never clamp your dead end to your live wire. That prevents your wedge from setting right. There are several ways to do it but I usually cut about a 8" piece of cable off the wire, then after I seat the socket, clamp it to the dead end. Always put the cinch on the tail and the saddles on the piece of wire you cut for filler. If I can I will get a picture to show you the correct way. It should also say in the operators manual if you have it. Good luck with your new adventure.
We did it like you have it when roading them but when hauling we set them as TD25 shows. Yours might be just a bit tight but not much. You just want to stop it from flopping and banging. Which reminds me, take a look at a choker/rigging handbook and pay special attention to how a choker is derated when the spread becomes flatter than 45 degrees. When you get two chokers spread way out you can break them with 10% of the pull.
When securing an RT to the trailer i like to use a spring lever binder to give it a little extra cushion for any movement the crane may have on the trailer to keep the line from taking to much shock load.
For the dead end of the rope after the socket we would often pull it into a circle or pigtail and install the clamps on to that, both on the dead end of the rope so to speak. In some applications it takes up less space than a straight section of cable if you are wanting to run the block really close up to the socket. However either way is perfectly acceptable.
In the absence of a photo maybe this diagram will help. 3 ways of doing it wrong on the LH side and 3 ways of doing it right on the RH side.
That's interesting Nige . My wedges are symmetrical . Can flip it either way in to the becket socket . This is out of a Grove manual showing only two ways ..... Correct and Incorrect .
Some wedges are directional, others are not. I can't think I've ever come across too many directional ones. Mostly what we were trying to show the OP is that you shouldn't install Crosby clamps between the tail coming out of the socket and the live end of the hoist cable like on his crane. Thinking about it when that anchor is re-done I personally would pull the cable through the socket by a foot or so just to get the area of live cable that has been compressed by the saddles of the clamps on to the dead side of the socket. Any deformation of a hoist cable on the live side has to be considered as undesirable.
See what Grove says: (look into the circled paragraph) This is for Grove 540 crane. Of course I do not know much and defer to everyone else's superior knowledge. I just found this in a manual.
Basically Grove is saying that any of the 6 methods A thru F are acceptable, but 3 of the 6 are "preferred" solutions. It's worthwhile pointing out that if you are thinking that your hoist cable is anchored using method "B" that is not correct. The "specialty clip"used in that option is effectively a modified version of a Crosby clamp with a "double saddle" specifically designed so that the U-bolt does not bite into the live end of the cable and damage it. The photo in your post #25 on Page 2 is using 2 standard Crosby clamps which is not the same thing as shown in your manual.
Nige, I finally "got it" what you are saying. Yes, I have Crosby clips and not Grove "specialty" clips. Therefore, I will NOT use method B, but will use method A or F.
BINGO, We have a winner. LOL Good choice.
We run a becket / wedge set up similar to (F) on the diagram . Did you get the jib with the RT 60 ichudov ?
Td you know you can't post a picture without someone telling you what you're doing wrong. Figure f shows a different wedge. The clamp actually clamps to the wedge and the cable on the dead side. You should have another piece of cable clamped to the dead end on yours. Side note what is that little metal sleeve on you cable for.
TD, thanks, I think that that is how I will do it with the new wire rope. I did not get the jib with the crane, I wonder how hard are they to find?
Boy aint that the truth Knepptune ! The cable clamp on my set up is just for show ..... It don't serve any purpose . Once the wedge is seated it aint going to jump out Bro . I'm going to let people guess what the pipe & chain are for ?
for anti two block?
Don't know ? Probably pretty hard to find an original jib for your RT 60 . But with your work you may not even need it . Your Rt 60 has 70 foot live boom ? Rite ?
It always seemed pointless to have the cable clamp but I promise Osha wouldn't have any sense of humor about your set up. Pipe and chain are for pulling the cable over the jib without getting grease and oil all over yourself. Am I right.
Yes, 70 foot boom
The purpose of the cable clamp on the dead end side of a becket is so if the becket hits something hard the wedge can not come out. The end of he cable stub should be close enough to the becket to keep the wedge from moving far enough to fall out. It has no purpose in hoisting. I to think the chain is for the anti two block.
Yeah , question old-iron-habit . My Grove manuals are from the late 1960's to the mid 70's . The picture in post #37 was from an operators hand book dated 1974 . What's interesting is there is no mention of rope clips on the dead end at the becket . Even pictures show the cranes without them . Did the the use of clips at the dead end on the becket become common possibly in the late 1970's or early 80's ?
Oh yeah , good guessing so far guy's on the pipe & chain rigging . No winners yet but you are getting close . Hint , no anti two block on the machine . Hint , pipe is sch 80 thick wall for strength .
So you can seat the wedge with a two lb sledge. Lol
Getting closer Knepptune . I'll give you another hint bro . Old School Grove . Talking about wedge sockets , here is one I took out of service . Pin bosses had some wear in them but what concerned me was what looked like a hair line crack starting at the base leg . This is what Ichudov will have to do with his RT 60 . Start at the hook & work his way to the outriggers inspecting & repairing as needed .
1 lb sledge? Lol I give up
Nope I don't hit it with a hammer . This could be a tough one for the young guys .
Hey that's true I am still a young guy. Doesn't have anything to do with pulling your dead section in with the cable does it.
Good man Knepptune ! The pipe & chain are for ..........Drum roll ................ Two Blocking ! The pipe keeps the becket & dead end out of the works when pulling back the dead section or installing the jib .
Good question td25c. I have no recollection of clamping the beckets in the seventys either. I don't remember when we started using the clamp but it become a must on our annual inspections somewheres in the 80s to the best of my memory. Even DOT inspectors are starting to check on the rigging of cranes traveling on there own power on the highway here. Buggers can't seem to get enough sick satisfaction off parking someone with most trucks up to snuff I guess.
Yeh, What was I thinking on the anti two block. It could not ride on the cable. It would have to fasten to the boom so it stays at the tip. Wasn't thinking on that one.
That sounds rite old-iron-habit . The man I bought the cranes from is in his late 70's now . I remember when I first went to look over the units I noticed no clips on the dead end . I asked him about it out of curiosity ( After all he has been in the crane game for 40 + years ) . He said only time he would drop on a dead end clip is if they just swapped a block out for a single line hook for a light load or a man basket . Other than that he never bothered with the line clips . I was good with that answer .
Different country obviously but when I first came into the lifting gear/crane business in the mid-1970s clamping the dead end of the rope was an SOP.
I usually drop the clamps and cut the tail short when clamming.It cuts down on line wrapping.The only time ive seen a beckett slip is when we got the bright idea of hooking the beckett direct to the lug on adrop hammer for a nice tidy connection.we couldn't keep enough clamps on it then,so it was back to a clamped eye.In saying all this I wouldn't do lift work without clamps on the beckett.I like the Crosby terminator beckett best ,they have the clamp thru the wedge.Cant go wrong with anything Crosby.
You make a good point about Crosby clamps Tugger. There are a lot of inferior lightly built clamps on the market. Many of them have smaller bolts in them and are not worth a crap.
Cable Lube Yeah ichudov , Found some info on cable lube in a Grove manual . Sounds like they recommend a light weight oil . This is most important if your machine sets out in the weather all the time in my opinion . We keep our units under roof when not in use . Extreme hot weather & sun tends to melt what oil is on the cable and the rain washes it off & rust starts .
td25c, thanks a lot, I will do just that. I found that used hydraulic oil works pretty good. and I have a lot of it. Does it need to be applied to new wire rope?
used ATF also makes a good wire rope lube
I come from the millwrighting side of the world and agree wholeheartedly that most jobs are only as dangerous as you make them. I've just recently been exposed to alot of craning and have just purchased a Grove RT740 to replace an even older Coles Grove 25T Hydratruck. I have full manuals for the old one but would really like to get a set of manuals for the new one. My crane buddy is super excited as he first learned on this model and will now get to close out his career on the same machine. Anyway, if you can help me out or point me in the right direction regarding manuals, he and I would both appreciate it. Thanks,
I bought 325' of 9/16" AR for the 30 ton National the other day, in the big city, Salt Lake. A big rigging supply outfit, I was like a kid in a candy store. Just because.....6 K +hours, mostly truss setting, on the hour meter now. The original rope I'm pretty sure, no obvious kinks or broken strands, but it was shortened up several times, mostly because I didn't like the shiny spot where it rode on the boom tip sheave when I'm pounding down the road, and the becket free end getting frayed by the ATB weight. Haven't put it on yet....no hurry, I think I'll put a ad in my local penny saver rag in the farm section, 325' OF 9/16" WIRE ROPE, MORE OR LESS, DELIVERY POSSIBLE. I don't wand to mess with coiling it up or trying to reel it onto a spool, I'd rather spend a few bucks on diesel ($2.68 here right now, cheapest in a LONG time) and after I get the cash in hand (80 bucks) just spool it right out in the guys yard. I did just re rig my tail end for the last time, and used a magnifying glass on the becket and wedge area, after wire brushing it, checking for incipient cracks and couldn't see any. It has the Crosby built in clamp for the dead end, which I like, though I get how the becket is the part really doing the job, it keeps the free end contained better for me.
I am not familiar with the becket with the built in Crosby clamp. Been retired a few years now. Please post a picture if you can. Its 40 miles to the nearest rigging store. Really curious on what it looks like.
This is my becket, if you zoom in you can see how it works. This is just after I had my last inspection, the inspector wanted me to shorten up my line and put fresh rope in the becket. I have always had about 6“ dead end but he suggested shorter.
So it appears the Crosby pinches on the wedge. Different but looks to be effective. Keeps it off the working cable completely.