Hi all, we have recently purchased a 1965 cat 12e grader serial #21f1077. It has done all that we asked of it well and looks like it could go for a long time yet, If I had a complaint about it, it would be that the dog clutches for the circle rotation and also for the wheel lean are getting quite bad. I have asked at our local cat dealer and they said only 1 of the 2 clutches is available. Does this mean that I will be able to get it working in one direction only? or does it mean that its a lost cause trying for new parts? Also any ideas on changing them out would be much appreciated and if anyone has the pages out of the service manual pertaining to this procedure, would it be possible to post them? Any help would be much appreciated, thanks Steve
Give me some Part Numbers. I'll check what's available. Service Manuals I can help you with.
Hi there, I would get a rock n dirt magazine and start emailing calling faxing a list of al of the parts numbers of the clutches u need to replace, chances are something else fits in there from another machine or there are new old surplus parts online somewhere, one thing i have had to do with my cat is buy what is obsolete for a spare when i find it, i have those lift plantarys for lift arm drives and they are no loner avaialble from cat new, but i found a both sides n a cat junkyard for under what the price new from cat was for one gear, there are about 20 geards misc in the giant box i found for sale online so am set for life and if need by have a good used spare for machine shop to make from scractch, good luck, like the poster said, post the part numbers on here and somebody will know where to go or what to do with them as far as aftermakarket
I'll have to dig around a bit more before i can track down part numbers cause I havent actually pulled the control box apart yet to see what is worn, I was sorta hoping someone might be able to help me with a procedure for the correct way of pulling things to bits before I get in there and wreck something and right now the grader is earning its keep making access for road trains so we can get some grain out during harvest. When I get a chance I will pull things apart and see what I can come up with. Thanks for your help steve
Apologies. I deduced from your original post (when you said the dealer told you one clutch was not available) that you HAD Part Numbers ........ silly me. Let me have a butchers at the Parts Manual and see what I can come up with. Regarding D&A Procedures for circle & wheel lean let me have a look when I get in the office in the morning, it's getting a bit late to be starting now. Also please PM me an e-mail address to which I can send whatever I can find.
Thanks for the help Nige, I will pm you the address now. steve
I might be wrong but I believe you can turn them around.Unless thats been done all ready.
it would be nice if that where the case 2stickbill but I will just have to wait and see..
E-mail on the way fella .......
Thanks for the comprehensive email Nige, now I just need access to the grader when its going to be sitting still for a bit to get into it and take a look. If its ok with you I might have more questions about more specific things when I know more about whats buggered and what isnt. Steve
You really should get a parts,service and operators manual. Those are three separate manuals.e-Bay has a good variety,or your Cat dealer. I have not had the console apart (to scared)but most every thing else.I'm looking for a wheel puller now so I can fix my leaking slave cylinders. Please keep posting your progress so I can follow the procedure. I have a 9K, 70D and a 12K, grader poor!:beatsme
No worries fella. You have my e-mail. I'll second the recommendation about trying to get a Parts Book & a Shop Manual. eBay & Amazon are both good resources to try. The available on-line resources available are pretty slim pickings for a machine this old. One thing I forgot to mention is that the on-line systems don't mention machines of a 21F prefix as yours supposedly is. The only model 12E listed is 99E prefix. Maybe your was manufactured outside the US (Brazil possibly?). I would just hope that parts are interchangeable.
Nige the 21f prefix as i have heard it was either built in australia for australia or built in the states specially for australia, I dont know if either of these (or neither of these) is true, that is just what i have heard, I had a bit of a dig around and managed to find what I think is the correct service manual for a 99e 12e online in a military technical manual website, I downloaded it and it all seems legit and as far as i can tell the 99e and 21f are as near the same it dont matter, in fact i think the local cat dealer uses a 99e parts manual as their reference. For interests sake here is the address for the online manual i found. http://books.google.com.au/books?id...=related:OCLC25261659&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false steve
hi farm were are you i still have some book from wigmores on O/s 17f/21k
Steve - There are at least a couple of things you can do. One is to check for any binding or damaged bearings/bushings in the circle drive mechanism, and the wheel lean mechanism. If the small direction reversing box on the circle A-frame has worn bearings, this places excessive load on the dogs in the control box and makes them kick out. Similarly, any wear in the driveshaft bearings increases load on the control box clutches. In addition, make sure the circle can rotate easily, and that it's not bent or warped, or binding in the circle shoes. A well greased circle is one that turns easily. If the problem is in the control box dog clutches, you can swap the dogs around and place the worn ones in positions where they're least used, or have less load on them. If the dogs are badly worn, you can build them up with weld and grind them back so they fit together more accurately. The control box isn't complex, it's as simple as they come. However, the shifter forks contain a cute little double-plate, spring loaded brake that has to be working properly to hold the shaft locked when the clutch is released. You won't find a service manual for the 21F, but you will find parts books for it. The 99E model is very similar, but the Australian-built graders had some minor design differences. The Cat 12 service manual pretty much covers the machines from 1938 to the mid-1960's I can lend you some books if you want to send me an email. It's been a long long time since I owned a 21F - it was an early 2 speed reverse 21F, sold in 1962 to the Williams Shire. I traded it, in late 1981, on a Powershift 14E!
OxDozer, thank you so much. I am, just like "Farm", having the exact same problem with the dog clutches on the circle control and also the outer two controls, the up and down clutches. I have a Cat 12. I, too have to eventually get inside and repair them. It is so good to hear you can swap the dogs around or weld them up. I bought a service manual off of E-Bay, but when it came, it was only a parts listing, a disapointment, since the picture the seller on E-bay showed was a manual. So I too, am looking for a repair/disassembly/reassembly/service manual. [In the meantime, I'm still finding grease nipples on that machine that I didn't know about after running this machine for 6 years.] Farm, I find that keeping the circle teeth "over-greased" will help a lot to keep the circle control functioning.
Hi you blokes, thanks for the replies, I ended up having a bit of a win with the old grader, one day I just decided to get inside the control box and have a bit of a looksee, as you said it isn't really a complex system. I haven't specifically checked the circle or direction reverse gearbox for trouble but while I was in the control box I reversed a couple of the dogs and gave the worst ones a little touch up with the grinder so that they looked more like the scarifier ones (virtually unused), and it's made the whole thing much nicer to use, not perfect but better. I also put new bushes in the wheel lean worm drive box and checked over a bit of other stuff and while doing so found a few extra grease nipples. This all happened a fair while back and since then I had to put a new engine oil filter canister on as one of the ones on it had a hole rusted through it on the side against the engine block because the previous owner had let too much **** build up there and not cleaned it. That was an easy job and after that was all done I drove her 30km out to amour other property and did a reasonable days work with it patching up roads and just tidying up a bit without it missing a beat. My only problem with it now is how loose it is in the front end, it gets the wanders pretty bad while shifting it down the road with all the joints being pretty loose and in need of some attention. Westrac in Geraldton have been pretty good with faxing me bits of their parts book out at times and my downloaded copy of the service book has been good too. All in all it's been a handy machine and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't continue to be so. Steve
Steve , you can't beat the old mechanical lift 12's for simplicity and reliability. They built them from 1938 to 1974, and they ruled the grader market for the majority of that time. Glad to hear you found that downloaded military manual was useful, I find the military manuals are the best, they're more comprehensive than anything Cat wrote up in the early days. Also glad to hear you worked on the control box without any major hassles, and fixed a lot of the problems. The worn steering on the 12's is a pretty common problem with age, and its a PIA to work with, and a bigger PIA to fix. The basic problem is that there's so many moving parts in the front end, and some wear in each part, all adds up. To rebuild a grader front end is pretty costly - if you can still get the parts. It's better, if you have the time and skills, just to recondition as many of the pins as possible, and machine up new bushings where needed. Errol - That military manual link that Steve put up, early in the thread, will do you just fine. That's a huge, combined instructions, maintenance and repair manual that pretty much covers all the 12's, and you'll get good value from it. You never stop finding grease nipples on Cat 12's! I can't recall exactly how many there are, I think it's 128, or some figure close to that!
I just bought a Cat N. 112 Motor Grader Serial # 3U2427, just getting it going ran it today for the first time and the circle blade turn quit working in one direction turns out the fork busted. How do I remove the fork? Do I have to take the driveline off the one end and slide the lower shaft off at the same time? I bought a owners manual and a parts book. I know this is an old thread. Any help would be appreciated!!
Some of them can be turned around. If the OP goes to the ACMOC Website and then to the Technical Library there is a very good post by Deas Plant that walks through how and which ones can be reversed. If I recall it requires switching the right ones with the left ones, etc.
I was asking how I remove the fork not if they could be turned around, I went to the site and apparently you have to be a Paid member for Any information at all. Thanks though
you have to pull the stuff off the front outside and remove the fork assy and gear shaft together.
Actually you have a number of free passes to the member side to check it out before you have to join to enter.
I ended up removing the yokes or driveline and was able to get enough free play to remove the fork I needed and the one next to it. We had trouble with a normal puller so we came up with this to get the yoke off.