Gentlemen, I am seeking additional information on a particular (and peculiar it seems) RTL. It's a DL250-3. From what I understand, if the need for regen is stalled by operator to 120%, it cannot be forced by the normal procedure. I have made that attempt unsuccessfully to this point, so either it is at the intervention level, or I am not getting the proper procedure to force the regen. So, is there a way to determine if the percentage is too high, or is there a firm way known to execute a forced regen that I am not seeing? What exactly happens if it goes too long? Is it time to pull, open and vat the elements in the reaction chambers? Is there a defeat method to force regen by another means? Thoughts appreciated! PS: I posted this in the wrong subforum, and have requested it to be moved here. That has not been done yet, so the other may simply be deleted. I reposted it here.
If that is a Doosan DL250-3, make sure the machine is at least at 170F, the park brake enabled, hydraulics disabled, and the machine is around 800RPM (low idle) before you press and hold the regen switch for around 8 seconds then release. It should idle up within 2-8 seconds. Don't touch anything or the machine will kick out of regen mode. Usually a DPF filter does not need cleaning until around 6-7000 hours. Most of the issues I have seen are the operator doesn't have the idle low enough (auto idle must be engaged) set in the dash, or the temps are not high enough. If you cannot get the machine temps up, buy a -5 Doosan thermostat, they are set for a higher temp. I live in Canada, that solves most of the regen issues up here. IF it does not go into regen, the best thing is to get a tech out with DDT/DPF program on a laptop. You can check your own codes by pressing the up button and the menu buttons at the same time on the dash, left of the steering wheel (up and menu are the 2 rockers one on top of the other) Press and hold till a menu pops up, then release. (that might take a few tries) Navigate to current failures and there are your codes. If you are seeing a DPM failure error, have to fix those first. Again you need a laptop to troubleshoot. Only way to delete the codes is with a laptop. (I'm starting to sound like a broken record here) Safety first, ONLY regen where there is NO CHANCE of anything lighting up around the machine, I have seen tip temps over 500F Hope this helps.
Thanks, Old Timer, for the reply. I've read instructions similar to yours. I believe I've followed them. The only fuzzy area is exactly where/what the hydraulics disable switch is. The switch markings aren't exactly clear to me on this machine. I have the machine alone inside a large concrete building away from anything flammable, so fire is not a concern at all. Others have tried this outside with the same (non)results. Alll temp, rpm requirements, etc. are met. The only "fishy" thing I see is maybe nothing, but I'll mention it. When setting the park brake, the indicator lamp comes on, but only for a second or two. If there is a fault there, and the onboard computer is reading that as an input, it may not see the brake as set. The brake does function despite the light not on. I don't have anything more than a Diesel Laptop w/offroad package. I don't believe it will interface with the Doosan, so I may end up having them out. Their help has been a little disappointing, so I would rather avoid that if possible. But, they have to make a living too. I'll try to get a code read. That I have not done at this point. Monday. We are down to 3 loaders, no spare. Would be good to have this one back up. Runs great otherwise.
Hi Tony. The pilot disable (hydraulic lock) switch is in the right side switch panel, should be the first one of the inside line of switches. Try the switch, if you have no hydraulics, good to go! As for the park brake, most -3 machines have a starter interloc from the factory, should not start if the park brake is off (ECU controlled). The ECU gets that signal for the light from a pressure simple switch. I have seen that bypassed sometimes. If you can, search the onboard codes, If you post the results it will go a long way to getting it solved. There is one trick I have used on -3 excavators, warm the machine up and get it ready for regen. Shut the machine down and turn off the battery switch for 1 minute. turn the battery switch on, start the machine, once the idle is down, press the regen button for 5-8 seconds, it might go. When the ECU is switched off (battery switch) it sometimes takes 1 or 2 minutes to recheck the emissions system. Once the ECU has a signal to regen, it ignores the soot level in the DPF. Problem is, if you have a DPM error (metering unit, doser etc) it will rev up but not burn, or not rev up at all. As for the dealer coming out, yah everybody has to eat, but success is the metric we should all be judged by. There are resources that the Doosan/Develon dealers can get. If you can get the dash codes out I can likely point you right to the problem, but the dealer will have to come out to confirm the repair and delete the codes. It would be great if your laptop would communicate, much easier. Really hope this helps!
Thanks again! I'll have a go at it in the morning. I'll post any codes I find, and go from there. I was not aware of the park brake interlock, so that should be telling. By memory (ha!) I don't recall having to set the brake. Most of our operators aren't in the habit of setting the brake, TBH. We keep the battery switch off when not in use. Sort of policy around here. It's a green waste/wood grinding/chipping/screening operation, so lots of fire potential. Most of it leaves as compost or soil amendment of some sort. I think I may attempt to relabel some of these switches. I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing the dealer, but it is a fact that on several machines, they have come to the yard, diagnosed and claimed a repair only to have it appear they never were there, so had to be called back. More than one trip per machine. Plus they really, really seem to be busy. Maybe they are, or are understaffed, but 2-3 weeks to make a service call? Hmmm Thank you once again for the additional tips!
OK....today I spent a little time with the machine. First problem was that I could not get it warm enough. After 15 minutes at idle, ~140° F, so I ran the engine speed up for a time, and at no time did it exceed 152° F. Might be someone has removed the thermostat, or it is stuck open. Either way, that's not warm enough. I'll address that later, but for this session, I can block off part of the airflow and see what I can gain on the temperature. It may be as simple as that. There are a total (historical) of 66 DTC's, most of them back around 2-3,000 hrs. Machine currently has a little over 9,000. There are a few recent enough to possibly be related to this problem. I took a few pics, which I will post below. If there is anything pertinent that jumps out at you, let me know. I'm not sure how these will display, but if the auto-enlarge, they will be legible. The thumbnails are pretty useless. I'll be glad to key them in manually if necessary According the the shop manager, the laptop will clear the codes, so will get to that when this wraps up. Thank you yet again for your insight and suggestions.
Hi Tony, There is a lot to unpack there. First, solve the water in fuel sensor problem. Second, install a new thermostat (advise to get one for a -5 machine) Both will inhibit regen. As for the history codes, can your laptop monitor the fuel pressure at the metering unit, egr position and exhaust temps?
old timer, I agree...there's a lot going on with this machine. One step at a time will get there though. I'll tackle the water in fuel issue first.This machine has been sitting still for several months, so there has to be considerable condensation in the fuel tank. I'll clean the separator and try to clean the sensor. The machine seems to run fine, so I'm thinking it's not burning much water. But that obviously needs attention. We bought 4 of these loaders together, and I always thought they were all -3's, but one is a -5. I'll go ahead with the replacement, since it isn't likely to hit the required temperature in daily operation. The operators spend too much time sitting idle and never really work the machines anyway, so the never have had an overheat problem even in this dusty environment. Guess our radiators stay clear enough. I won't be surprised to find no stat in it, but I'm told it had been regenerating on schedule earlier. The shop manager said he would get a stat for a -5 incoming. Ill be changing it. As far as the laptop, I'm told that it will read live data streams, so if that's true then yes, I can monitor the EGR position, exhaust temp and fuel pressure. I thought I saw some of that with the onscreen monitor, but I may be mistaken. But if you mean the parameters at the time the code was set, I don't believe they are stored. I did not get time to work on it today. Other hotter fires prevailed, but took care of a couple of them at least. Perhaps tomorrow I'll get back to it. Don't know of anything really pressing. There's a crew of 7 in the shop. They stay busy, but have not been able to get anywhere with this machine. Only 2 of them have much experience. I generally get called in after they have spent enough time on things. Thank you!
Hi Tony, Did a dive into your codes, the 2 I would worry about is a 'EGR timeout' (likely a loose or corroded connector) and a 'metering unit' low pressure (could be some trash in a filter head, HC injector or the metering unit) Once you have the codes solved we can run thru the procedures to reset the DPF and get a regen. And I know what you mean by fires, I always carry an extinguisher, for flames or to toss it...... LOL
LOL...I carry both fuel and extinguisher, depending on what catches fire. Some I'd rather see in ashes OK, then first I'll see about those two issues. The next couple of days are going to be hectic, I already know. But if it rains, and there is a little in the forecast, I have lights and a dry place I can park right next to this machine and work on it. I'll report any findings. If it's true that the laptop reads live stream data, are both of these concerns able to be monitored by that means? There are a few parameters available for onscreen, but IIRC you can only display 6 at any given time. Those probably aren't even available through that though. I'll do some basic checks - V/R/L, or scope as needed prior to making any changes other than something obvious like a bad/broken connection.
LOL! I know what you mean Got a little trick to help you out... as long as the machine has been working up till now, there is a differential pressure sensor at the DPF. Sensor has 2 hoses running to it. Fixed more than a few. Sometimes carbon will block 1 hose, false reading, ECU will signal a plugged DPF. Just a thought....fixed one this week, on a Deutz, at 200 hours of all things. Once you get the water in fuel alert to go to history, then if you can go to EOL (end of line) test, tell the ECU that you have cleaned or replaced the DPF (soot filter), should go to 0 grams. (gets rid of that code. Most live data (laptop) only shows if the water in fuel code is there, don't need to monitor. The only useful reading in the dash is engine temp (I always have that up when regening), in case I need a fire extinguisher, and I have used it! Then try a regen, if the machine accepts it, the parameters to look at are the dosing pressure, (HC injection, metering unit should be 6+- bar) exhaust inlet temp (won't inject till 250-260F) and outlet temp (should rise to over 400F when you get a decent burn going). That is what I look at when regening. This might be a bit too much info, When all the parameters for regen are reached (engine temp, in neutral, park brake, hydraulic lock, regen switch signal) the engine revs up, adds fuel to engine injection, and partially closes the throttle valve to warm up the exhaust. Once exhaust temps are up to 250-260, then metering unit feeds fuel to the dosing injector, then the engine revs up higher and then the outlet temps rise. My advice would be to hook up your laptop to a working machine, regen it, look at what you can monitor, use that as a guide. I have the apprentices do that all the time. Hoping for success!
Great tip! I'll check that early on. My accomplice on this one, since I'm in no shape to be climbing all over these machines due to some osteo issues (avascular necrosis, for the curious), has gone over the machine without successfully located the water-in-fuel sensor. I'm looking to get a service manual for it, so we can at least find all the parts (lol) since we have 3 of the -3 models, but not much luck expect from the robbers. Even Scribd is changing their business model. They show that they have it (~800 pages), but the d/l link redirects to a new site named something like "SlideShow" or similar, where they demand more $$. I've been a loyal paid member of Scribd for a while, uploaded some stuff, and downloaded some very handy materials. It's rubbing me the wrong way, but with this many machines, maybe I should spring for it. I've had similar carbon buildup interfere with a couple of Volvo hoes, so I recognize the issue. Definitely worth checking out. Still waiting on a -5 stat, but when I get back to this machine I plan on simply blocking the airflow partially, to see if I can get it up to temp.If I can, and nothing else is killing the regen cycle, it may work. That will indicate the need for a new stat. I know user feedback is worth....well, what you pay for it, but all the operators say it was fine. Problem I see is that they can be working along normally, and next time they come into sight, heavy smoke. I didn't think the autoregen would trigger during work. Again, I'm short of docs. But I do have 2 or 3 in daily use for comparison readings. One I have is gathering dust because there was a bad pivot bearing. 3 years minimum, it's sitting on blocks, not fully split. I want the book to tackle that one. But hey, it's got low hours! (now) Not too much information. It all goes in the melon file, where it gets sorted out, most always.
The WIF sensor is in the fuel separator bowl, primary filter, R/H side of the engine. The machine will regen while working, as long as the temps are up.
minor update Put a new stat in. Shop mgr ordered original -3 stat, which is 165° F. Runs at 167°, will not get warm enough yet. Robbed a WIF sensor from another machine, so that cleared. Seems the pressure differential is not making the ECU happy. Only now finding out that Doosan was sold out in '21, and even Bobcat is supposed to be an auth service center. They had nothing to connect to the older machine. They are next door, so got a no charge service visit, but gained nothing yet. Seems we're going to have to go to Shreveport to get a dealer over.
minor update Put a new stat in. Shop mgr ordered original -3 stat, which is 165° F. Runs at 167°, will not get warm enough yet. Robbed a WIF sensor from another machine, so that cleared. Seems the pressure differential is not making the ECU happy. Only now finding out that Doosan was sold out in '21, and even Bobcat is supposed to be an auth service center. They had nothing to connect to the older machine. They are next door, so got a no charge service visit, but gained nothing yet. Seems we're going to have to go to Shreveport to get a dealer over.
Hi Tony, Running at 167F is enough to regen. Just regened another -3 yesterday, and it started at 160F (but I do prefer higher) You will have to fix and delete any codes you find first. The program to do that is DDT or a appropriate aftermarket setup. Even a program called DMS 5 (Develon) will get you in, not sure if Bobcat has that? Thanks for the update, good luck
Hello old timer, I don't know if the Bobcat guys have that, based on their visit. At that time they just said they could not hook up to it. I found a download (free!) of DDT, but no mention or description of the connecting cable. If I had the specs, I could build one. I'm assuming it's a serial cable, but I'd need the pinout to build it. I've been on a few other projects, so this one is still just sitting. We've cleaned the plumbing to the differential sensor and believe it's all clear. Naturally, clearing the code(s) and addressing any other issues remaining will be next. We did get a Doosan tech out, but I was not the contact person for that visit, so I'd need to chase down his findings. I believe he just said we needed to have the DPF cleaned, and recommended a place that uses a furnace to ash out the deposits and then nitrogen (I think) the blast it out. I'll have to confirm that recommendation. I have cut some open and had them vatted, but now I hear that the common vatting processes uses the old caustic soda (NaOH, Lye) and that can damage the precious metals in the structure. Not crazy about that, and the bake and blow sounds more reasonable. All that said, before it went derate, it seemed to run fairly well, so I don't quite see the need to do that. I'd rather find a way to force the regen on the machine.
Hi Tony, Great hearing you got a tech out. When i run across a DPF with excessive soot load (40gr or more) what i do is warm the machine up, shut it down, then reset the DPF in EOL (end of line test) this makes the machine think (I use that term loosely) that it has a new DPF. Re-start and hit the regen switch immediately. May take a few regens , but I have cleared them with close to 60gr soot. One thing to remember, you are turning that soot to ash. eventually you will have to get it cleaned to get rid that ash load. I have heard of a company locally here that cleans DPF's and DOC's that way, it DOES work great. I cannot help you with the pin-out, but I know it is a UVIM interface. But, I will check into what info I can find. I have setup a DPF cleaner in my own shop, use a product from GAT. Setup a headless drum, regulate air bubbling from the bottom (4-5 psi) and bolted on a high frequency vibrator (acts as a hydrosonic cleaner) The product is basically a soap, cut with 50% water. Use it to clean DOC's, DPF's and EGR coolers. Been using it for years with great success. It sounds simple, but it is quite a process. As a bonus, the shop smells great when in use. LOL. Looking forward to you're success!
Making a little progress, but it seems we're stuck on other projects. We got an old Komatsu RTL running in its place for now. Ran into something today unexpected. Have a CAT 320E digger with water/rust, etc in the fuel system, and running the cutout test, we find 4 out of 6 dead holes. Here in East Texas NOBODY seems to be set up to test or service the injectors. We even have a CAT engine service center nearby, and they don't even test their own. If they send them out locally, they wouldn't share who. Even a few places in DFW and Houston said nope. Can't see what's special about these injectors. Maybe I need to open a shop just for that myself. Looks like we're just going to replace them with remans. Bring in an endoscope to look around in the fuel tank, but since the gasket is missing on the filler cap, I expect it's been gathering rainwater AND condensation. So....rust flakes abound. I just hope the pump isn't damaged. It's a common rail system, so I'm hoping whatever got past the filters didn't all wind up in the injectors. Really need to vat and coat the tank, but don't have the time. Plus I have a butchered Jaraff to rewire. Has no SN, so factory can't really send reliable schematic. I got bits and pieces. Fun stuff! Anyway, that's thread drift....so pardon me! I've got that sort of setup in my machine shop. I picked up some HDPE lined, fiberglass wound pressure vessels from a commercial water softener setup. I cut the tops off, they are probably 40 gallons. I set one up with caustic soda, and the other with Manganese Phosphate. So I can surface treat some of the oilfield products I used to make....or if I'm careful, I can mimic Parkerize. Nice on old tools that have seen better days. And things that go bang. I can't submerge any of the exhaust components in these tanks though. Wish I could. I've got 7200 watts of heat in each one. I suppose I could do one end and flip them. These tanks are about 20-22" diameter so I might be able to. The local cook and blow is a Rush Truck Center. They don't seem to want the business, at least right now, so I'll keep trying other ways to light it off. I appreciate all the help so far. At least we're making some progress. I'll keep updating. I searched a little for the UVIM cable details, but they must be a federal secret lol...I'll keep digging, or find a buddy close who has one that i can make a pinout sketch.
Well, down to one active code that returns about 10 secs after being cleared. 0x008630. (Unknown error) Some bogus live data on the laptop, so can’t be really sure what’s up.
OK close the book on this one, for now. DL support remoted in and resolved some software quirks, so I was able to clear all codes. Since we had cleaned all the sensors and replaced a few things it started and ran well. There is no need for regen after all. I'm not sure about this, but the DL tech said if the machine did not need regen (and the live data seemed to say it did not) then you could not force one. ehhh maybe. It's smoking more than I like, so there may be injector issues, but if it's running that rich it will clog up and need a regen before normal, and I'll know it. At least now I know I can get into the ECM and see what's going on. That code was bogus as well. My assistant who connected the DL selected an incorrect machine, so we were not communicating with the ECM properly. Somehow I was fairly certain the engine temp was not 2800°F at 0 RPM, nor the B+ at 171 VDC. This machine will be revisited if there is more to tell. Thanks for the help!
Hi Tony, I got a chinese knockoff version of DMS-5 and the DDTdpf software off a website called friday parts. It is kind of tricky to run but I have been able to use it on our Doosan DL220-3 wheel loader. it came with the software and the UVIM and adapter. hope this helps.
Hi Spencer, thanks for that tip. I’ll look into that. Next week I’m getting a few days to play with another system, JPRO. They are leaving their laptop with me to experiment with. They claim to be better than DL. Either way, I’ll check out Friday parts. I get their junk e-mail all the time, but haven’t seen that offering. Tony
You can try to block DPF
Well, open book, scratch head time on this machine. I have a no-start condition. Onboard failure code history or current is not loading. Key on, POST, error popup as pictured. Disappears with "esc" function, but no change in start attempts. It drove to the shop for other issues (hyd leaks) and now is stuck. A pinout of the VCU would be helpful I believe. I think I'd check power to it first. Open to suggestions.
Failed to provide SN. It is 10141. Cannot communicate with the laptop properly.
Please check the can l and can h resistance
ECU 1-35/1-34 to transmission controller 25/26 and fan controller CN11-1/CN11-2
VCU CAN termination checks <1 Ω (Should be 120 Ω in circuit, 60 Ω each end). Did not scope yet. I can communicate with the ECU with my laptop, so thinking it is fine. Graphics on dash, history of codes not populating. Seems to be VCU. I have two identical loaders, and am planning to swap in another VCU in the morning. Thank you Not really following your notation on the other checks. Connector pins on loom or module header? I have no documents on those. The machine will start and run by manually jumping the start relay (with key in "run" position), but I do not have any hydraulic control or transmission engagement.
DX250-3 VCU 1-80/79 (CAN) ->LCD CN3-6/7->ECU 1-46/47->Transmission controller 25/26->CONN 4/5
RS232 CONN1/2/3->VCU 43/24/42 VCU 23/41/72->TMS controller 5/6/10
Hi Tony, Start with Happy Christmas, and sorry to hear that your still fighting that loader. If you have < than 1 ohm between can high and can low, I would check resistance at the test port behind the seat. Then unplug each ecu, one at a time. Failed ECU when unplugged will read 60 ohms there. That will eliminate the controllers, then you are chasing a harness problem. this should ony throw an EGR code but there is an oddball terminal resistor in the egr harness, L/H side of the engine harness, a little ways back of the alternator. NOT listed as a separate part, Develon, in their infinite wisdom, says "buy a harness"...... I made one instead....... Hope this helps!
Hey old timer...thanks for chiming in. I think I misstated the termination resistors in my previous comment. I realize they are 120 Ω EACH and when measured in parallel are 60 Ω. So then, if I d/c all the modules, and check the wires between them on the CAN Hi and CAN Lo, I should be open circuits (no shorts between them) and good conductivity end-to-end. Then with a pinout for each module, I can double check the individual terminations (again 120 Ω). Once I can clear all of that, I will scope the CAN bus and see what the signal looks like. Thanks for that tip on the hidden resistor. That would have thrown me for a loop. I'm with you. a 1/4W resistor is a bit cheaper than a harness, I'm fairly certain. ;-) I won't be back on this one until Monday morning but it's high on the list. There is a couple of connectors in that area I'm uncertain of. I have the 14 pin round, mounted in the upper left corner, but below the fuses there is a round connector wit only 3 pins, and another more-or-less square connector with I think 4 (maybe 3??). Also piquing my interest on this machine is a small module in that service area that has the appearance of a wifi box. I see the DC-DC converter and the wiper timer, but I can't ID that other module.
Hi Tony. Remember to disconnect 1 ECU at a time with the KEY OFF. I would resistance check at the diagnostic plug (round plug below the fuse panel) The resistance should go to 60 ohms when you unplug a bad ECU. No change would mean you then have to chase down the harness. I think the controller you are referring to is the TMS Let me know what you find, a busy week but I will check here occasionally. good luck and i hope this helps!
Well, it has come to this: Dealer tech spent 2 days on this project and cleared up a few minor problems but left it disabled. At this point, the machine will no longer run at all. At first failure (no crank/no start), the graphics displayed an error message and had no crank response from key, but the starter could be jumpered at the solenoid and the engine would run. There was no throttle response, and no hydraulics control, but the transmission would engage and attempt to move the machine, even bucket down. The on-screen tach reads 2,000 RPM under any condition. The machine idle speed sounds by ear to be about normal, far below the "stuck" tach. The original VCU was called dead and another substituted in from a "sister" machine. The tech was able then to connect and communicate with the sub VCU, but no resolution of the original faults. Still no crank/no start. Still error message displayed. I gave the guy some space and I don't know everything he tried. When it became evident that his progress was stalled, the decision was to stop. His final suggestion was that a bad harness was the root cause. Now the starter solenoid will not respond to a jumper. Lost a little ground here in this process. It was also suggested that now, for some reason, the ECU has also failed. In his defense, he was aided by factory support, and tried hard on everything they suggested. I don't fault him a bit. Some problems are just difficult to nail down. It seems I'm left with minimal options. I've never been a fan of replacing expensive harnesses. There are maybe 300 wires involved. I can take the time to go thru and test continuity on every single one, but time is short and valuable. And naturally, this machine is parked in a poor place. It was brought to the shop for minor maintenance work and parked in front of an overhead door, blocking in a (now) finished project. I'll need to drag it out of the way and remove that project just to get this thing inside where I can scatter it for what comes next. I have inbound some additional diagnostic help with my own laptop and Diesel Laptops. I'll try a few things of my own, some old school tests with scope tracing and other tricks, but I'm definitely open to suggestions on anything that might speed this up. It's a much needed machine, and I have many other projects on the plate. Thanks @old timer for the reminder. I think the termination resistor issue is sorted out. At least that's my understanding from the tech. I'm guessing the dead VCU was the root of that problem. I'll post my progress as it is made, slow though it may be. I'm balancing this with the other tasks at hand.
The latest, (mentioned in #33) and I am very curious about the interplay possible here: Is this what I think? Can a problem with it cause a no-start? How can it be removed? Dealer tech says it is part of the bucket-scale setup...I'm not so sure. Found it stashed behind the fuse blocks and near the wiper delay module.
It looks like a TMS installed by the dealer themselves. Please troubleshoot according to the circuit diagram and remove it.
After making a bit of a mess between two of the machines, I'd like to steer this one back to the correct machine. It is SN 10141, and originally had regen issues and is NOT the machine with the VCU Comm error. This machine is down, and shows only 2 codes: E003719 Maximum soot mass in particulate filter FM: Failed (Bad intelligent device) T0BA Differential pressure oil filter FMI: Above normal range I am seeing a Stop Engine warning, but everything I think is critical to running the engine seems fine. By that I mean the basics like oil pressure, water temp etc. Not worried about the T0BA error..likely just a clogged filter. The question I have is about the language on the soot mass reading. What is meant by "Bad intelligent device"? I've cleaned the lines to the differential pressure sensor and did not change anything. Is that sensor the "intelligent device" or is that something else? I still cannot force a regen on this machine if that is what it needs. I have the DMS-5 software, but not learned all about it yet. It does seem to have many options, but for the life of me I cannot find (if it is there) any way to command a regen with it. Perhaps it is not capable, although I thought it was. Anyone have thoughts on what I need to do next?