My definition of a true dozer hand is someone that you can tell what you want done and will do it, and without you having to tell him how, and fast! Someone that you can put in the fill or cut with either 2 627's or 10 631's or 20 john deeres, and he will take charge get everyone cutting or dumping where there supposed to be and still be able to do his job and finish as he goes. I kinda look at it like hearding caddle. Alot of guys these days just dont care and its really starting to get under my skin! When i was running a dozer and was knocking down the fill for 15 631's and finishing main line as i went i looked at it as my fill, and i would get MAD if the foreman or someone came up there and started pointing scrapers were to dump, its my fill and my job to get these guys in a routine, and dumping where i want, dont come and screw that up. I have a few guys running dozers and they will call me crying "These guys wont dump where i want them to, will you come spot them" I have enough stuff going on i dont have time to come do your job, you make them dump where you want them to. Sure if we move to a different spot ill stay there a spot them for a little bit so everyone gets in a routine, but its your job to keep that routine, and put it on grade! Really there wouldnt be a reason for a dozer to even be in the fill or cut if you could find guys that knew how to run scrapers anymore, but thats a whole different subject that i dont even wanna get started on! So what do you guys think??? Whats a true dozer hand to you?
hearding cattle... with the scraper drivers I was around, you need to apologize to the cows. Ugh, they were a handfull. monkey see monkey do was their moto.
They voted for Obama once, and they'll vote for him again. Trouble is, there's so many of them, Obama will probably get another term. The problem with scraper operators is they got worse with the introduction of land leveling pans pulled by ag tractors. Just dump anywhere, anyhow, it don't make a defecation. Now you need a 140 and up just to straighten up behind them. Back in the day, a CAT 212 was all you needed to put a skin on a fill.
I'm a scraper operator but I take no offense at the comments... there are way too many Baron Von Hackenbombers running scrapers these days.. then again, I worked for 18 years for an outfit that never had adequate support equipment.. if you wanted something done, you often as not had to learn to do it yourself! I can hardly wait to see what the crop of guys who "learn" on these 627H's will be able to do if the camera breaks or the computer fails! Carry on guys. Alan627B
Any job I've worked on the super was supposed to keep an eye on the grades and would leave the dozer operator to clean up as needed with an occasional call to get him to a special spot. Otherwise the dozer man was on his own with this stuff.
You mean the guys running E,F and G series are that much better? I don't call these guys operators, they are simply machine drivers. Same problems are starting to be heard about airline pilots too. Everything is so automated on the aircraft being flown by the airlines now that the pilots are forgetting how to fly. In many cases they are there to simply turn the computer on before takeoff and off after they park at the gate.
Munky mayen what do you mean the super was in charge of grades???
Greg, if you put 3406's in the tractor of all the 627B's, like the ones I run, and put a quieter cab on them, I would cheerfully take one over an E,F, G or H any day. Just my opinion... Alan
The big cut and or fill jobs I worked on that was the job of the grading foreman. Around here he was usually some little old Italian guy driving a pick up with grading stakes,and a transit. He walked around adjusting stakes while chomping on a Parodi cigar with a hatchet in his hand directing the dozer operators. Not too many places around here where pans or scrapers can be used......
somehow I agree with you al
When I'm running fill cat, ITS MY FILL! You dump where I tell you and when. You start using your own head, I will make your life a miserable one. If I'm pushing, same thing. I have left many a scraper "driver" sitting and waiting on the oppisite side of the cut that I'm working on. Then it's the super's time to take care of him, cause I've done all I can do within the law! Same as if I'm running a hoe. You don't get under my bucket, your in for a rough ride. The company I work for is old school. You don't mess around, or you get tramped. Simple as that. Now that I drive a pickup, I'm even more of a **** to work for.
My definition is someone who doesn't need a topcon or trimble system to carry a half *** grade.I'm tired of hiring guys who say they're operators and when you put them to grading a pad without it it looks like fito's *** or there's a lot of back blading and blade floating going on.We'll usually tell them not to worry about showing back up the next.
A competent dozer hand is one who thinks two steps ahead of where he is right now. An operator who plans his moves to minimise or completely eliminate double-handling, minimise fuel consumption, and minimise wear and tear on the tractor. A competent dozer hand has a "feel" for what he's doing to the tractor, and can work in with others on the site, without a, "me first" mentality. A competent dozer hand never moves a tractor unnecessarily, and never travels forward with less-than-full blade. A competent dozer hand cuts back on the RPM and goes to a higher gear when the load is light. A competent dozer hand operates his machine like he owns it, and like the payments for the bills are coming out of his own pocket. A competent dozer hand never neglects his maintenance, in particular with regard to constantly looking for leaks, cracks, and loose fasteners. These guys are few and far between.
I dont think im the best but i know i am good, i have done some pretty neat stuff on a dozer, and i can cut grade with or without gps, but gps does make me faster not going to lie. I hate it when someone tells me they cant do it! Guys was running a 6T LGP and he had to finish a bridge header and the slopes were pretty steep, about 1 1/2:1 well after about 4 hrs of screwing around on it and listening to him cry about it he said he was done and i thought id go over there and check it out, he didnt even finish it he backed draged everything and called it good, so i went down on my 8 and finished it, was a little hairy at times but not once did i think i was going to turn it over, the 8 did have the wider pads on it '28' but i still think it would of been much easier to do on the 6! Then there are guys that say that they cannot cut a 4ft flat bottom ditch with anything bigger then a D5 because the blade is to wide! *** and you call yourself a dozer hand! But i bet alot of dozer hands dont know how to cut a 4ft flat bottom ditch, anyone care to explain HOW TO???
Yair...vapour300 sounds like you're a bit on the youngish side and got a bit of attitude to me. I don't mind young but I won't take attitude...no matter how good you think you are. Around here there's lots more to being a "dozer hand" than messing around in dirt. Hows about I put you on an angle blade D8 and ask you to clear twenty mile of six foot high netting dog fence with regrowth growing right up to the wire...and I give you a Stihl chainsaw and pliers and a roll of wire you gotta leave it stockproof. Can't or won't do it? You're not a "dozer hand" to me...or maybe I ask you to take the blade off and fit that thirty foot stick rake that's leaning there against that tree...winge and bitch and grizzle?...you're not a "dozer hand" to me. Maybe you get the stick rake fitted do you know how to to rake a two thousand acre paddock and burn up all the heaps...and could you build a decent stock water dam...say fifty hours pushing if I just give you the centre line? These are just normal jobs for an Aussie "dozer hand" and if you can't do them you're not a "dozer hand" to me. The thing is though, if young fellers get down off their high horse there's folks out there who will teach. Cheers.
LOL Well everything you just said i have never seen done on a highway job, or intermodal facility, or airport, or railroad line so, have no idea why id need to know that. I dont say im good, i let everyone speek for me, i am always requested to go here or there to finish jobs up for are company. Theres nothing i cannot do on one in my line of work, and i have been on every dozer from a 6k up to an 11R, actually first time i ran the 11 i was 13. Some people have a nack for it some dont, just cause your older does not always mean you are wiser, sorry. And sometimes its harder for olders to admit when some young 25 year old dozer hand is better then they are, i dont understand that either, i worked with a mexican down in LA and he was a way better finish dozer hand then me, learned aot by just watching him, but he wasnt a day older then 35 if that.
Yair...my point exactly vapour. When you say "dozer hand" there are some of us on here who use dozers for other things than pushing dirt. Best of luck with what you are doing...and remember you never stop learning. Cheers.
Scrub Puller - You forgot to mention, while he's carrying out your fence-clearing instructions - he has find his own way to this remote location, 500 miles from Nowhere, with no more than a "mud map" for guidance (instructions drawn on the ground with a stick) - he has to live on nothing but "tinned dog" - in a 40 yr old caravan (trailer home) that has seen better days - can only bathe when he finds a deep enough puddle of rainwater or dam water - and he also has to cut the top of all dam banks by eye, using the blade, travelling forward, to within an inch in a hundred feet .... otherwise, he's sacked (fired) without payment, on the spot ....
Yair...crikey OzDozer, I didn't want to be too tough on him for starters! Dunno about a "dozer hand" but vapour sounds as though he might grow into a pretty handy operator with just a tad of Barcoo training and a bit of "attitude adjustment"...if you know what I mean. Cheers. *P.S. Hey OzDozer, (I'm whispering) do you know what them there "intermodal facilitys" are?...I didn't like to ask.
Scrub Puller - Yeah, I reckon you're spot on there, with the "attitude adjustment". Not the first time I've seen someone taken down a peg or two, right after they claimed they were the ducks gonads. My old man had a good saying. "Self-promotion is no recommendation!". I reckon we ought to bash that idea into a few pollies at present, eh? Geez, I was hoping you knew what "intermodal facilities" are. You mean to say you haven't got the latest intermodal facilities installed in the backblocks of Gladstone?? This is going to be a hard one to tough out.
I like that.......very few of them are a Muhamed Ali either.
Really have no idea what your even talking about, and im sure you have no idea what im talking about, next time ill clarify that this is on a grading crew, not a fence post crew. Yes i know im good and not afraid to say it either, thats how i got to where im at now
i remember a similar thread only it was about on scrapers. my dad always taught me (the man that stays quiet and listens, learns the most) somehow i see alot of posturing and big talk over the dozer deal. don't really care. all i do know is any 25 year old has a whole lot to learn and any big talk only pushes others away. based on my personel experiences. i am in my 40's and am a decent operater, have gotten far enough to own my own business and accomplish some very tough jobs. but that does'nt mean i am done learning. i prefer other to judge whether or not me and my guys are good or not. time for a shot at some humility vapor regards, cd
Never said i knew it all or that i was done learning, just stating what i know and also what i have been told. I have learned alot in these past few months i have been a foreman. But i am confident enough to say that there is nothing that i cannot do on a dozer or couldnt figure out, same goes for a scraper or blade, now when it comes to a trackhoe i am not that good but i know enough that i think i could get the job done. I dont understand why and when this got directed at me. This is an intermodal and this was only half the equipment Right now we are working on a 10 mile strecth of highway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlW3ALRyk_M&feature=related video of me and and a buddy of mine pushing dirt and finishing, hes also one of the best dozer hands ive seen
Vapor300 - Well, I guess it's a cultural thing. You big-note yourself in Australia, and you are setting yourself up to be taken down a peg or two, because Aussies like taking down co-workers who brag. Well, now you've gone and done it, putting up a YooToob video for critical acclaim! Here's my .02c, worth, take it or not. I started training operators in 1966, if that helps! The side-by-side pushing is good, but you're travelling too far when you each the end of your push. You shouldn't be running your blade right out until you see daylight under it. If you stop pushing and back up when the dirt drops below the top of the blade, you save fuel, wear and tear, and improve your production rate. The small heap left can be levelled with your next push. That's pretty tight clay, but it doesn't roll. It's a dead push. You should experiment with pitching your blade forward a little, to see if you can get the dirt to roll better. Rolling dirt is easier to move, than dead push dirt. When you have dirt rolling, it might appear you're losing a lot via the windrow each side of the blade. However, every time you loosen and move a pile of dirt forward, even a little, you're winning. The Cat blades don't have a good shape for dirt rolling. Try and find an old Allis-Chalmers with an A-C blade pushing. Those A-C blade are the finest pushing and dirt-rolling blades around, they have a better curve in the face than the Cat blades.
A few things I'll try to explain to the vid we actually were just stopping at the end of are fill and leaving piles for the compact to push but what u can't see is that from the time we start cutting all the way to the end are fill and the pass before that we left a pile for the compactor so this pass were cutting it to grade so the compactor knows where he's at. Yes it is tite and we would pitch are blade if we could but both of those 8s had single tilt cylinders so you couldn't pitch them, I begged them to put a cylinder on it so that i could carry dirt when i needed to. Yes this is kinda a far push but the area we were in and the amount of cut and fill we had it didn't make much sense to do it with scrapers. And trust me we tried to loose dirt on the sides so we could set up are slots but it was impossible the dirt would stay in front, and there was no way that those dozers would of pushed anymore, it was all they had to push that
Usually the "stiff" side has multiple holes for for/aft blade pitching, Eliminating the need for dual tilt cylinders.
Thank you Scrub Puller! :beerchug
I think anyone who can do their own work to the best of their ability, safely efficiently and consistently, without wrecking the machine, is a good dozer op. I've never pushed a scraper, haven't had the opportunity or interest to make the opportunity, never pushed a root rake, but what I've done they've continued to pay me for, so I must be good enough. Mind you, money isn't how I'd judge a top gun either, the Aussie mines may pay top dollar, but does anyone seriously think that's because their operators are the best in the world? I've seen some class acts on dozers working for similar money to farm wages over here.
ih100 - You're dead on the money (pun intended) as regards the question about the renumeration for working in the mines. Some of the biggest imbeciles that have ever held a steering wheel, or hung off the controls of a crawler, are working in the mines. They get paid huge money, because the mines have money to burn, and because basically, the lifestyle is crap. Working in isolated areas, in extreme heat and dust, away from family up to between 3 and 5 weeks at a time, a big disparity in the male/female ratio, all make for a less-than-pleasurable existence. Then you have all the company dickheads who have worked their way up the ladder by brown-nosing and filling in forms. The greatest problem area is when mining companies decide to buy their own fleet, rather than employ contractors. Contractors know their business, they know what can and can't be done, and they usually have a good, integrated workforce, who all have extensive earthmoving experience, not only in mining, but in numerous other fields. So ... the entire new fleet of 50 x 797's, 10 x D11T's, 6 x 994's, and 8 x EX2200's roll up to the minesite, because the beancounters told the mine bosses this is going to save them squillions. The contractors fat 20% profit (hah!) is going to go straight into the mines bottom line, says the beancounters, furiously tapping at their calculators. First thing the mine bosses have to do, is find around 75 new operators and train them up! Hey, that's no problem, operators are a dime a dozen, and anyone can drive this stuff, can't they!? So, they ask the employment agencies to find them the 75 operators. The agencies do their best, finding all the operators who have been fired because they were incompetent, couldn't work with others - or they haven't had a job in 3 years, and they just came straight in off the Centrelink queue, because they got told they have to get a job, or their benefits will be cut. This bunch of rabble then has to be trained up to the mines requirements - usually by mining engineers, who don't have a clue about operating earthmoving equipment. After $15M worth of equipment has been destroyed because idiots ran into each other, because they didn't know what they were doing, or because they sucked on some good weed they snuck into camp last night - then the beancounters figures are starting to look less impressive. Naturally, production rates have been about 20% less than the contractor, because the mine is still trying to "bed down the new equipment and operators". Never mind, the beancounters can hide all these losses in the big rows of figures, because smashed-up equipment can be written off, and it's a full tax deduction! After about 3 years, when the equipment is nearing the end of its lifespan, the operation is slowly starting to resemble something like what the contractor had, 3 years before. A number of the worst of the idiots have finally been removed - but a lot got promoted, too. This is a typical mine-owners fleet. It's not a patch on a contractors operation for efficiency, for the complement of good operators, and for the excellent safety record. However, the beancounters have hidden all these losses and inefficiencies in the rows of numbers, and they are proudly stating that they have saved the mine owners millions by purchasing their own fleet. You're dead right about some of the best operators being amongst the smaller contractors, the farmers, and the owner-operators. These guys usually work for far less money than they can get in the mines, because they can't stand working with highly paid idiots who have no real idea of the basics of earthmoving; because they like working with smaller tight-knit groups who all know what they're doing; or because they just like owning their own equipment and being their own boss.
Why would i take the time to change the pitch of the blade for half a days worth of work? Then we would of had to figure out how much the change effected the gps.
Didnt really matter anyways, theres no way that those 2 8's could of carried anymore dirt
The difference is between carrying dirt and rolling it. When the dirt rolls up the blade and then just sits there - from there on, you're just carrying a dead load in front of the blade. When the dirt is rolling continuously in front of the blade, you are then continuously moving dirt, not pushing a dead load with the huge resultant friction, across the ground. If I owned the tractor, I'd be cutting the bottom brackets off the tilt braces and tilt ram and moving them to see if I could improve the production rate of the tractor. If you're only operating the tractor, this might be a little hard to do. Cat don't always get their design right, and their design is always a compromise in terms of efficiency, cost and practicality. Often you have to do a little experimentation to see what works best for you in your situation and conditions.
Well one of the best i ever saw was a friend that a played football with, Buster H. from Roanoke, Va., He worked for **** B. a ww2 vet. They were a great team and saved me and my guys a lot work getting the footers in, without to much shovel work. Dependable and what we used to call level headed, that is when you have tobaco juice from both corners of your mouth. wosama931b.
yeah i see ur point, we have a few of the new 6T's with 6 way blades and i have wanted to get on one and kinda play with the pitch of the blade to see what works best, since on those dozers you can do it with a turn of a wrench. We are working in sugar sand and mudd now, so id think wilt the blade pitched back it would work better but im not sure. I have been begging are company for a few years now to order 8's with dual tilt cylinders but they said that when they put an incompatient operator in the seat (which is 90% of the time) that the gps will read different depending on the blade being pitched forward or back. And that they can already see them doing a building pad and having it be 2-3 tenths off because of this, and the operator blaming it on the tilt cylinder.