This was in Plainfield IL. last year. D8 tractors pulling pans (1 JD) Any input on why or when you would run dozers instead of a Cat challenger type setup over these? The company (Ryan) seems to be a pretty big outfit in the midwest http://http://www.ryancentral.com/photo.html
Hi jeff, were you from IL or somthing? Plainfield is right next to were I live, and yes Ryan is a large outfit, but all of there iron is sitting now, collecting rust. From what ive seen on the i355 tollway extension, that ran through my back yard, tjl would use the ag tractor pans for stripping loose topsoil, and then bring in d9 and d10 s with the big dolly wheel pans for cutting out the clay. By the way it was cool to wacth, because tjl would hook three of those pans behind a challenger!
I was visiting my in-laws.
Challengers are farm tractors, I doubt they would do the job being push loaded and getting around with that wet material, just not heavy duty enough. Those are nice looking machines
This scraper is 20 yds level 27 heaped
Seems to Ryan does a lot of work with short runs and a lot of elevation change. Any time they work in this area they seem to do landfill work. Which is some major uphill climb. It would be rather difficult to do with scrapers, or even trucks.
Challengers are limited in their capacity to tow and load pull scrapers by their traction, or lack of it. Their original design function was to avoid soil compaction. They do alright with smaller pans, but these bigger pans (25-35 yds) require a heavier tractor with much more tractive ability. This is especially so in soils that can be slippery (clay or loam, top soil) or in rocky or hard gravel. I'm sure DPete has had all kinds of experience with his in these situations. Even D9's have trouble loading pull-pans in some cases where it's wet or very soft, or in very hard materials. But then, all scrapers do. I guess that crawler tractors and pull scrapers ink out in some situations, but I'm not sure that double-barrels would not do as well or better. I know I've been involved in estimating situations looking either way, and even if the costs were tilted better towards cats and pans, the long term efficiency and capabilities of the rubber-tired machines penciled out better. Cats and pans are not an off the shelf rental item either. Those firms that use them usually already have some in inventory. Somehow, they make it work.
Once upon a time track type tractor & towed scraper was the only way to move dirt. There is still a place for the track type tractor & towed scraper where: A. traction is poor and the hauls are short B. material is unsuitable and you need to spread it in thin lifts to dry out before compaction C. material is heavy (wet clay, peat etc) and underfoot conditions are soft. In these scenarios a track type rig will run rings around a wheel type rig with a pan or a motor scraper ointhead
been there done that Having helped dig a dozen or so 40k yard dams with a 12 yard scoop on the back of a D68u, and owning a little old cable Le Turnover I know just how bloody slow and inefficient they are compared to having wheels under you. Having said that they're a hell of a lot faster than digging a dam with a blade. And we don't work in the wet, we go home and spend 4 months pulling the gear down ready for next dry. Think I'll stick with me 621's thanks.
Hook the pans up here anytime have to move any quantity. Pan behind a Cat is so much quicker than trying to push. Blades off of my D7 & D8 and pans hooked up 90% of the time here.
dozers and pans right now im looking for at a 463 to pull behind my d8k i have removed the kelly ripper and was wondering if i will be able to use the factory hand control and valves which has the same control as my blade up down left to right. The 463 has a cable on the apron which has no down pressure can one tie into the hydraulics so that you can have up-down and raise apron all the way up and then eject letting reverse action being the ejector to return first and then apron to follow allowing you to raise or control the apron for the next cut or will i need so kind of 3rd control i own a couple older double barrels but this would be my first crawler pan. thanks
Get a sequencing valve thats what we did on our 621 conversion and use the ripper valves.
I also have a complete pilot control system for a D8k and a complete rome scraper I would sell.
dozer pan Well i was telephoned today that someone from Iowa is going to go ahead and buy the 463 i was looking at they have been holding the thing for him for a good while and i just kept checking back every now and then over the last few months on it,thinking the guy might of backed out its the one on machinerytrader for 17,500 located in Peoria guess im out of luck that one was close to home mr renfro how big is your rome and how much are you asking wish you were closer,
tough time using the blade joy stick cause you need three functions. Endgate open and close, pan up and down and ejector in and out. Need third valve.
it is controlled by the ripper control, and for the apron and ejector they use a diverter valve mounted on the bowl.... once the apron is open all the way the ejector pushes material out.
That is the way my D6H is set up,using the ripper valve and the Ashland scraper has diverter valve.:usa
I did check out the ashland 175 and even talked to a rep from ashland thought about renting one for a try out i was told that the come with the sequence valve if ordered that way which would work for my up-down-left to right ripper control.
I would have to have 30k out of the Rome scraper with the pilot control valves for a D8k. The Scraper is 28yds and is not a conversion it was built as a hydraulic scraper.
Hourly Rate for a crawler (Dresser TD-20G) & scraper (Cat 435) combo? We have a TD-20G LGP (52,000 lbs. & 230 HP) that we pull a Cat 435 Scraper with. I believe the scraper has a 14 yd. struck and a 17-18 yd. heaped capacity. We charge $140/HR for the dozer by itself. What would be the going rate for this combo. Do I charge the same rate with the scraper combo since I'm not burning as much fuel, less track wear and tear since I'm only going forward, etc.? Also, most scraper jobs are longer duration 4-5 days, where a bulldozer only job is 1-2 days. There is more mobilization and set up time with the scraper combo. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks. Tazzels
The company I work for has about 10 D9 and pan units. They work great on soft and steeper work that we have alot of in southeast missouri. But the undercarriage takes a huge beating and they are slow so runs should be kept around 500 feet or less
Agree with you on undercarriage. It tends to cut the inside out due to the long straight runs but not as bad as I thought it might. Don't look at distance here, look at $$$ per yard the job is worth. That dictates how it gets done here which in most cases is with the Cats and pans.
I have a question about outfits who run this set up. I live in the Buffalo, NY area and I would love to see these machines operate but I seriously doubt anyone runs the setup, I am guessing due to soil restrictions. Does anyone know if there are dirt contractors from my area approx. 150 mile radius, that use this style of earthmoving.
What model of scraper is that behind the D9s in the pictures ? Thanks
Somebody will correct me here but... MacAnninch usually pairs a D9T or D10 T with either a modified 631 or 641 pan, a D11 with a 651 pan. Some of the other pics look like cat 70 ot 80 pans converted to hydraulic operation. I think Roly from the UK has a fleet of D8K's pulling cat 463's. Cats number system changed sometime in the 60's.... Check these out. http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...RPILLAR&GUID=3DE45EBC26844A8899F675C9C023098D Cat pull scrapers or either the 40-90 models, or 400 series. Some companies refurbish old scraper pans and assign their own numbers to them as well. The scraper for sale listings. http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...id=1054&guid=3DE45EBC26844A8899F675C9C023098D Hope this helps, Alan627b
Pilot system work on our d8h, still have scraper for sale? Very interested
Pilot system should work on D8H with minor modification. Contact me at beau(at)renfroeminingandgrading(dotcom)
I got to watch Ryan move a couple hundred thousand yards of dirt on a site near me. I was impressed at how well the 8's did. I never saw the push dozer behind them once. They are really nice for short hauls.
brassman80-there are 2 setting near Rt. 77 and Rt. 5 right now. They have been used lately because of the rain. I have seen some others with weeds growing around them in the area.
Duplicate post
Here is a picture of a Liebherr Dozer hooked up to a 33 cubic yard scraper in Ontario, Canada. They refer to this unit as the 'Beast' as for how productive it is.
What is the make and model of that pan. The picture may be deceiving but it looks small for 33 yards.
that looks like a Ktec scraper made in Manitoba. They painted the cylinders on those purple, that is why i would guess it was Ktec. Am i correct ShaneK?
Yep, you are correct.
WOW, They make some big pans. Website shows them up to 50+ yards. There size is decieving behind the 574.
Something just doesn't look right with that pic . I'm sure it must work ok though.My old D8's would struggle with 33 cube.That German tractor must be stronger and heavier than it looks
Yair . . . I don't understand the thinking on these scrapers with no dolly. All that weight and leverage on the azz-end looks horrible. What are the advantages and do they leave the blade on for a counterweight? To me one of the joys of scooping was to get rid of the blade and have a fast, responsive and manoeuvrable tractor. Cheers.
I had never seen a direct-mount behind a steel track until this pic. The reason they started building direct-mount pans was the growing popularity of farm tractors pulling pans. The tractors require less ballast, and direct-mounts are lighter and more maneuverable than dollies, plus you can hook multiples to really hammer the work out. I just have one story to share. I have what I used to call a competitor that ran a D7G and a 435?? string scraper for 40+ years. His dad basically pioneered drainage in our county. When I started scraping in 2003, I showed him nothing but the tail lights. My rubber track is twice as fast, my scraper holds more, and I had grade indication on the scraper. I could cover more ground in 6 hours than he could do in 2 days. Rocks do slow me down, but they slow everybody down.