In a number of threads I have noticed that dozers pulling scrapers on commercial sites are usually without blades. Is there any particular reason for this other than not moving a heavy steel blade to the job site? Rick
1. The wear on the under carriage is less without the heavy blade hanging. 2. Many of the older cable dozers use the CCU to lift the blade so in order to have both sides of the CCU available for the scraper the blade has to be removed. Others will chime in with more reasons.
Having the blade on gives u more weight so u get more traction, BUT u can't cut along batters as the blade is wider then the tracks as well as cutting close to pegs and other obstacles it becomes a hindrance, also creates more dust and cuts down on your forward visibility. We used to always take our blades off, which on a TD 15 size machine u could drop the blade and hook up to the scraper in about 30 mins and the same dropping the scraper and going back to the blade, not the sort of thing would want to do a couple of times a day.
It would be very possible the same could be true with a newer hydraulic dozer as well. A tractor without ripper hydraulics could pull a pan by using the blade hydraulics. The apron and ejector get plumbed together in series for the tilt circuit and the lift circuit runs the bowl.
Yair . . . All the reasons listed . . . a direct drive clutch steer tractor with out a blade is a responsive agile beast. Love it. (big grin) cheers.
The Blade is dropped off or not fitted when pulling a Scraper to firstly allow the tractor to steer faster and improve manoverability, on CAT tractors D7-8-9 size in my early days we had to swap the front idlers into the High Set position, this involves splitting the track chain undoing a load of nasty bolts and spinning the idler 180 deg, then stuffing things all back together the clipped master link was yet to be invented so a bit of thrashing was involved, with the front idlers in the high set the tractor realy turns fast and seems to gallop away from the cut faster, this also helps with loading as the steering load on the engine is reduced, after the Scraper work is done things had to be swapped back and the winch shafts dropped off and blanking caps fitted to the Aux' drive, so your question about popping off a blade would be nothing work wise to do but makes a big improvement on the speed, handling, fuel used and the amount of muck moved in any conditions, the Plant Manager of 1 outfit I used to do work for sometimes even had you pull off the CCU's after the scraper was pinned and unhitched, the winch would be dropped into the Scraper bowl to be towed away by a truck (not loaded on a trailer) tctractors
Dozers & scoops. A few dozer and scoop photos, first a D6 scoop with blade on ( RDG it is Renners machine with Wally at the controls.) second D8H and scoop being pushed by same D6 is a Stevenson's machine operated by Wally's boy Michael,and Richard Stanborough on his TD15 and Onions scoop, all at the Golden Cross mine project Waihi NZ. Next myself on my first dozer and scoop I owned, HD16 & Birtley 70.
I only have blades on mine when they are being moved from site to site. I never worked them together in 25 years apart from a handful of very brief moments. As TC says,rotating the idler blocks made a suprising difference.Only did it one though as it was too much bother unless you had permanent scraper work
Running big tractors with the blade on is like having a headache after far too many beers.Take it off and let the kitty run free!!!!! D6 tractors is another matter though,so I'm told.Merv is better qualified than me on that subject.
Hi Nicky 68a have you got a few photos of your gear working, would be good to see some action from the UK, cheers.
here's one of them stripping topsoil last year
and another one being pushloaded this summer.Hope you like them.
They both have blades too.
They parked up in December.Not sure when they'll next work as it's too wet until spring. Razor,I like your Terex by the way.
Thanks to all for your answers, I have no experience with scrapers and was just observant and curious. Thanks again, Rick
You live and learn. I never knew about the idler blocks. Just to clarify, that's to get the idler off the ground so you can turn easier? Thanks for the pictures and information, everyone. One question from me, can you raise the idler on high-drives?
ih100, the answer on High Drive units is realy no, although the front idler on a D6H etc does have a spacer shim plate under the mounting that can be removed it never is, the likes of D8-9 tractors loose a good bit of steam on the turn with good boots under them, they even had clipped ends on some plates to help with the turn, when you see a D8 run with the idlers in the high set position, or better still drive the mount to get the feeling of how easy they run, turn, spin and seem to pull better, it seems to make it worth the effort, we used to spin the idlers in the night ready for the 6am start of shift, thinking about it my life must have been crap in places, but we thought it was doing the job right at the time, no one in the U.K. running D8H or K's mucks about with this idler task now, probably because they cannot be bothered but 1 thing is sure CAT would not have gone to the trouble if the end result was not worth it, the tractor also seems to run easier - faster. dog em into 3rd and let em fly tctractors
D8 & Scoop Nicky those are good looking tractor & scoops. What were the jobs? I have had a passion for dozers & scoops & scrapers since I was knee high to a grass hopper,don't think that ever going to change. Here is one of me on D8 & scoop about 30 years ago.
Rpl The Lakes, Tauriko
Rpl few more
Yair . . . Hey Brainzie . Good pictures mate . . . how about the "Verbs" (to use tctractors expression) just what's going on? Looks like an interesting job. Do those juice scoops stand up alright after a roll over. . . it could be a common occurrence with learners on cable Le Torneau LPs . . . mostly little damage it could be a dirty greasy nightmare sorting out the ropes. Cheers.
good pics phil; whos fleet was that ?? Only person I know with a heap of 7Hs on scoops is bob hick. were they clutch and brake models, or diff steer. opinions I have heard is diff steer is not that great with a scoop behind, and I quite believe it too. pic of my girl scooping
Hey scrub. that was the first stage of a subdivision on the out skirts of Tauranga. Had a few man made lakes to add to asthetics and make use of a large amount of peat that was in lower lying areas. I was only there one season, so never worked on the man made lakes just the residential part. Those scoops fell over just as easy as an onions, ( that`d be the closest to a letourne that I`d played with ) if the fulla in the tractor wasn't consentrating, but mostly those kokudos would be one of the most stable scoops Ive used, not that I`ve used a lot. But with those big fat back tyres they certainly slid round in greasy going. Was a heap of dirt moved on that job Merv, RPL ( Renner Plant services limited ) I think was or is the right name they were who I worked for and had won the first stage. They had a couple of 14s there as well but mostly only the D7`s were working, was quite nice material to use until we got down to some real wet white %^&$ which the pic will explain. Had a wheel tractor pulling some scarrifiers to help dry the material. RDG and Razor would be able to explain the material better. A lot different to the clay in the north here. And over the road was a fleet of ts 14`s doing an industrial subdivision. must admit it looked bloody watching 9 to 12 scrapers working together. never got any pics of A&R`s gear. I think Bob Hick took over the second stage and was there for some time, last contractor I saw there was JMC at the Pyes Pa end, Heap of komatsu and scoops and quite a few cat scarpers.
Wow,what a great thread.I feel like I am starting all over again,I had no idea how complicated the scraper was in configuration but it all makes sense if you think about it.Thank you for asking the question.Ron G
RonG, the tractor and box (pan bin?) that seems to have been hit with a Scud Missile resting on its side, well after the box gets re-mounted onto its 4 points the pilot would be on the thin strand of cable with the Slasher (Muck Shift Forman) not because he tipped the Box over but how he managed to make such a mess on the spot he was working, in the U.K. this is not put up with unless you are on Day-Work with the kit, even then the driver would be the 1 to get rid of at the first chance the Forman had, how he ended up in that tangle would take some understanding as the tractor could turn left or right and controlled that moment easily, its not a good photo of even half handy pilot error. tctractors
I have watched good operators do things that I might not try and I have also uprighted a few over the years,easy with an excavator, and have run them myself enough to recognize the dangers but I never knew about flipping the front idlers or that they could even be flipped.I am aware of the shims etc as they affect the stability of the dozer when finish grading such as putting in the road base for paving or maybe a tennis court.I never knew of an owner changing the shims to suit me but I sure could tell if they were worn on the dozer that I was running.I try to go to bostonpowercat every day to hear those old flat track cats blowing smoke and hearing the blowers spin down as they dump the throttles,brings back memories Tony,thanks for the link.Ron G
Volcanic soils. Hi phil The white crap you refer to is` Rotoehu' ash one of the many `Tephera' soils found in the Bay of Plenty area, it is well known for its high moisture content once you start working it the water is released giving it the consistency of runny toothpaste. Take a look at the photo's RDG posted where the TD15 and scoop are bogged down, if you have ever worked in this area chance's are you have been caught out by this material or you have seen another contractor in a similar position. In the photo's D6 & scoop and D155 & scoop bogged on down hill unloading, contouring job at Paengaroa .
Hi Merv Looks like a good load , got to love those top layers of ash. Did you convert the scoop yourself, how about a couple more photo's of your girl with the scoop on. Cheers .
scoops a Birtley 70; from TCs homeland :drinkup. Was hopper constructions. They converted it to hyd, along with a 80 and a 435. Had seen other D6Cs towing string 70s, and my opposition, who you probably know Renton Foote, known him for 30 odd years and we get on ok has a very tidy hyd converted DW15 scoop behind his D6D so I knew mine could handle it ok. Usually have rippers on, but I just pull the 5 pins and tow off a dummy drawbar on the ripper frame. In soft going it can be too much, but you just take 1/2 loads. D6s are light on there nose so I leave my blade on for abit more extra weight and pull. It turns easily enough with a scoop behind. Only disadvantage is as RDG points out you can,t get as close into the batter. few pics of mine, with a tombstone of clay sticking out. plus one of footes D6D with a allis TS200 scraper he converted to towed.
Old Selby just lifted the bowl right up once it was full and off, that's how good those scoops slide, hit the windrow on the bottom side and over. not the ideal thing to do(bowl right up ) but it wasn't the first or the last time that happend on that job.
Yair . . . Brainzie . I reckon tctractors is being a little picky, **** happens to the best of us. Cheers.
Cheers Scrub, I agree. only cost a box of beer if you tipped the scoop, got stuck or knocked peg over. :drinkup
Yair . . . Good one! We had the same system and it was carried over in later years to the workshop---doing pipework on boats . . . carton of beer for every weld that leaked. Cheers.
Love those D7H's
Pack of Beer would not get you to far on this rock, 1 Co I have worked for was well known for its 2 strikes and out the door you go rule, the Boss even sacked his own Father for busting the mirror on the LowLoad outfit, it turns out he had smashed a rear light a few years earlier, so in all fareness he had it coming??? this outfit would work you over 70 hours a week with the chance of loads of overtime, the end for this outfit involved a light aircraft crash in the usual U.K. weather, the money was hard earned but you always had your coins, but when the Boss died the Co was shut down by the week end with all the Tractors and kit being sold off exported to Lybia, in the U.K. if your face fails to fit the boot hits your backside regardless. tctractors
Hi Brainzie some photos of the katikati golf course job,you will see the 613 in there. in my search for these I have found lots I've taken over the years , will post on new thread .
Thanks Ray. bloody good photos there, that must of been before I got there or after I left.
In the early 80's I worked as a fitter for the Wellington City Council. We looked after all the earthmoving equipment and I spent as much time as I could at the dump working on the gear there and learning the basics of operating from some of the older guys. There was a 613 for bringing down enough fill to cover over the tip face each day. When the 613 was out of service there was a Vickers Onions cable scraper and a D5 with a CCU permanently fitted. I learned how to rope up the scraper (the D5 was used elsewhere most of time) but one thing I cannot remember, how was the ejector returned? What really impressed me was that the D5 was a manual and the usual operator would run it up and down through the gears with a smoothness of many years of practice. The clutch and brake steering taught me a few quick lessons on how quick a dozer can turn, on a slope, with the weight of a scraper behind. Even after I'd been warned about it
There are ejector springs usually in the rear tube that stretch while the gate slides ahead and they return the gate to the rear when the cable is relaxed. I am going to be changing a couple in a DW 21 in the spring.
Code: Yeah ! most of them have some sorta spring system to return the ejector, if the the ejector is let back quickly and slams against the stops it can cause the srings to break and when that happens the ejector won't return properly. Once u start loading the in coming material pushes the ejector back.
Thanks guys, sort of brings back some memories.
Another memory jolt if anyone is still following this On a mid-late 70's D5 with 5 speed manual transmission. is the trans syncro, constant mesh or crash? For the life of me I can't remember. I learned to drive on one but never shifted gears on the move. The regular operator used to change gears on the move. From memory there was an interlock so the trans could only be taken out of gear when the clutch was disengaged but this was removed Thanks Brent
Transmission gears went to constant mesh (non-synchro) long before the D5 came along.