I bought this crane this summer, at the time I had issues with it, I couldn't find any markings on the engine to identify it as to the make and model, and the last dealer who had any experience with drotts told me it was probably a case 188 diesel, so I called my pump guy and he told me to bar over the engine until the marks on the pump lined up and take it off, which I did and he rebuilt it, said it was really bad and didn't know how it even ran at all, put it back in and now it smokes and has no power. Made a call to him again and he told me to double check the timing on the engine crank and pump, well that's when things got interesting, under all the dirt and grime there is no marks left on the crank, only a few notches and the pointer is bent so far out of shape I have no idea where it's supposed to be pointing to. To top it off I've been looking at pictures on the internet and am not even sure its a case engine at all. Several calls to many places and now I'm told it could have been several different engines in the machine and all had markings on the top of the valve cover to identify the make and model, mine has nothing on the valve cover, any suggestions at to identify positively what engine I'm even dealing with. Drott never had any information on the engines they put in according the place that handles drott that's now been bought out several times and all the old timers are long gone that would know. If it is indeed a case engine, are there castings imprints someplace in the many different versions of the 188 they made and if so where? I have no idea what year the crane is or even if the engine is the original one in the machine.
Most of the carrydecks had case engines in them . If you can post some pictures of the engine I am sure we can get it identified.
Smoke and no power means the timing is too early. Loosen up the pump and rotate it in the direction the engine turns it.
Late yesterday I got a call back from a ford mechanic and he told me if it was a ford industrial it should have castings numbers on the side about frost plug level and somewhere in the number there should be a 601, we'll look it over again to be sure this morning, I"ll also have my kids post pictures of the engine this morning, actually we were talking last night and decided since its not so easy to get at to look we were going to take pictures with one of the kids cell phones to see if we could see anything better on those than we could with inspection mirrors. Delmer, what do you mean for sure when you say the direction the engine turns it?
If you removed the injection lines and loosened the bolts and cranked the engine, the injection pump would rotate "in the same direction that the engine turns it" until it hit the bolts. That is the same direction you want to turn it. No need to actually remove the lines. You can loosen the mounting bolts that are hard to get to, start it, and loosen the one that's easy to get to, then rotate the pump till it runs right. If the pump slips too much it will run retarded but that won't hurt anything near as much as too advanced. Don't tell Pumpguy I told you this, I'm only telling you cause I know you didn't drop of the watermelon truck yesterday.
One of my sons took this apart and put it back together again, I had another son help this morning with loosening the pump and rotate it a little and then tighten it somewhat and start it up, that solved the smoke problem, so I'm guessing I moved it the right direction and we took pictures, after the high pressure hot water bath we actually came up with a name tag on the bottom of the engine in back, we had to take some pictures of it and enlarge them to read it, its impossible to get a persons head in there to read it and the inspection mirror wasn't much better. I'll get the pictures posted on here but by the tag it reads 207D and a few more calls and I"m told drott never put the 207 case in this series of crane so it must not be original, or else I'm being told wrong. I've never been around the 207 at all, so I'm wanting to see if anyone here thinks that its a case engine, there were some more markings on the block on the other side, those were also in the pictures so I'm going to get them on here too if my daughter can manage it this afternoon, and increase them in size so we can read them on here.
Not sure if any of these help at all, its packed in so tight we really couldn't get a very large picture of the engine, only parts of it. Somewhere along the line we can't find the one with the model number on it, its in the camera but not on the laptop or I can't find it anyhow on the laptop, the number is 2859611 is what was on the tag, we're thinking maybe the serial number, nothing else was on that tag besides the 207D just above it, we enlarged it so much it was almost distorted and that's all we could see. As for the stampings on the side of the block seen in a couple pictures, I don't have a clue as to what they'd be besides maybe a casting number. I can't see anything for timing marks on the crank pulley anywhere, we couldn't get the camera any closer to the pulley it wouldn't fit in the crack any closer, we zoomed in and saw nothing on the pictures either for marks. We couldn't find a timing hole by the starter either like is what was in some of the pictures I looked at on the internet for these series case engines. Sorry some of the pictures are duplicates, we were having difficulties getting them uploaded the way it was.
Does look very much like a Case & the 207D tag would confirm that. Did you remove the timing gear to remove the pump, or leave it fitted & slide the pump off the shaft? There are a couple of dimples to align on the shaft & inside the pump drive tang. It could be 180deg out.
My son just slid the pump off the shaft and slid it back on again, I'll have to look again but I don't recall seeing an inspection cover on the timing cover, I was thinking the whole cover had to come off in order to get the gear off or look at it. If the tang was 180 degrees off it would never start or run would it, or am I thinking wrong on this?
That is a 188 or a 207 CASE engine for sure and probably a 207 it the tag is off of this engine. There should be a dot on the end of the pump shaft tang that lines up with a dot in the drive inside the pump. Have seen an engine 180 degrees out of time try to start but not run. If the dots are lined up you should be able to to put the 0 or TDC line in the middle of the window on the flywheel and line up the scribes in the pump and it should ran pretty good.
Goose we couldn't find any window on or anywhere near the flywheel or any window what so ever anywhere, then besides just turning the pump till it quits smoking can I do?
Glad to hear you got the Drott85rm Randy, that should come in pretty handy. Found a picture of a case 207 at www.brokentractor.com/images/case-207-engine 004.jpg Looks like it uses the Stanadyne / Roosa master pump. Should be a timing window on the side of the pump. http://oregonfuelinjection.com/pdf/stanadyne-db-jdb-and-db2-pump-removal-and-installation.pdf
The timing window to the flywheel is located in the bellhousing near the starter motor. Should be a plate with a single bolt or older models have a hex plug.
We put the crane up on blocks so we could get around under it better, since there is already stuff over my service pit torn apart and we can't find anything of a plug or plate anywhere near the flywheel area at all on either side of the engine, or even on the backside of the flywheel, nothing behind the starter and there was three of us looking, we even took some pictures on a camera at odd angles in case it would be in a blind spot for us to see, every picture on the internet shows that window to be in about the same spot on the block, on mine there's nothing there but solid casting. On the pump we know about that one, that's how we static timed the pump to take it off and put it back on again, but I'm at a complete loss as to where the timing hole would be for the flywheel. For now we just rotated the pump till it quit smoking and it'll have to be good enough, since we need the crane to work on the equipment over my service pit to get those machines fixed and then we'll drive it over the pit and stand under it, maybe there's another angle we missed we can see from standing under the crane we couldn't see by laying under it or get a picture of it on the camera, other than that I'm out of idea's as to where to look or how to look for it. Gosh and I thought skid steers were bad to work on, carry deck cranes are worse for accessibility of the components I'll say that for them, handy to use but a pain to work on. Anyone have any suggestions as to how to get rust out of the fuel tank, apparently the last guy only ever had a few inches of fuel in the tank, and the top portion is rusty, so for now we're just bypassing the tank and have a temporary bucket set on top of the deck to use.
Not sure if it is feasible for a tank like yours, but one thing guys who restore old motorcycle do is to put a bunch of nuts, and bolts or screws in tank with fuel oil and seal it up and agitate it by rocking back and forth. Some used clean gravel. On smaller tanks wrapping in blankets and stuffing in a dryer on "air fluff" has been used. Your tank I'm sure is too big for that I'm sure but maybe you can come up with some idea to do something of that nature. I'd remove gauge float if there is one as that would not take kindly to the action. You could also check with radiator shops as some have an acid dip tank that will remove rust.
Strap the tank to a concrete mixer and use broken glass inside. Of course that assumes you can remove the tank.
Why am I just reading about this now?? If you had lined up the lines BEFORE you removed the pump and installed it the same way.. you should be fine on the "dot to dot".. Its probably just a matter of fine tuning..{Delmers post** I DONT RECALL doing your pump.. must be a "local" job?? IF you can read the #'s off the nameplate on the pump I can tell you exactly what engine you have and possibly what application. What color is the smoke? Is it hard to start?? Did you get the lines on the pump TO THE INJECTORS back on correctly ?? with out bending them?? If your pump guy said it was bad and didn't know how it ran.. {sounds like me **.. then it probably had a major contamination and flex ring failure.. that means all the little plastic pieces ended up back in the tank. Check the flow of fuel TO THE PUMP.. and remove the return connector on top of the pump COMPLETELY.. and check the smoke.. You may have a partialy clogged return line.. or even low inlet pressure.. Another thing.. the pointer.. I would bend it straight.. does it come anywhere close to the V on the pulley ??
The pump guy, it was done locally, he said it must have been badly contaminated with water, the flex ring was shot and the stator maybe, I can't recall what exactly he said was bad right off the top of my head but I could ask again if you want specifics. Smoke color is grey to blue, no its not really hard to start, yes I'm pretty sure we got the lines back on correctly and didn't bend them. We static timed it before taking it apart and put it back in the same way with the marks on the injection pump, when those were lined up and we bent the timing mark back to what we thought was straight it was about a 3/16ths off the notch. We turned the pump slightly and that helped the smoke a lot, didn't eliminate it but now we can run it inside the shop for a while. We bypassed the tank completely on the machine, we put all new rubber lines on for the fuel inlet and outlet back to a five gallon bucket for the time being till we can deal with the fuel tank issue, we installed new filters and even put an inline fuel filter in the inlet side of the system, installed a new electric pump but I can't remember without looking if we left that in or took it out, I know at the time we were told to try it without first, it shouldn't be needed after the injection pump was done. When the engine is running there is nice flow of fuel back to the bucket, we've checked that. I'll have to get an inspection mirror and a magnifying glass to get the numbers off the pump, but right now we're in the grip of extreme cold weather and my shops at freezing temps and the in floor heat isn't keeping up so it'll be a few days for me to get those numbers, we're working all day long now trying to keep everything thawed out and working.
Sounds like you got the timing figured out.. Its 18* here and I have to make a service call when the sun comes up.. thank GOD its in a heated shop.. Get those #'s when you can.. We're here to help.. TPG