I just bought a 1981 Int. 2500, S/A flatbed, with auto tranny. I bought it to pull my equipment trailer, because the truck I have, been doing this with has a 444E engine and it just isnt enough power. I drove the 1981 and even though, it didnt act like a 3406 Cat engine, it did seem to have more power than the 444E. I hooked a 28ft trailer, with a Bobcat and it almost killed it. Im in the trucking business, but I have never owned a truck with a 466, I have always heard that, they were good engines. This truck only has 93,000 miles and it starts and runs great, just no power. This is a manual fuel system, I have changed both fuel filters and air filters, still the same thing. It has a boost guage and pulling the trailer (without the Bobcat) it has about 12 lbs boost, whatever that means. OK Guys, whats your thoughts
Naw, it ain't no 3406 Cat, but...the 466 is a good engine and should have enough power for the job. I'm thinking most were around 185 horsepower. Dang good sounding engine with an open exhaust system. I tend to forget what boost pressure numbers are, but I'm thinking 12 lbs under load and on the throttle sounds a little low to me. Does it have a wastegate valve at the turbo that has a hose/line going back to the intake manifold? Do you have an intercooler? I've seen intercooler hose clamps loose causing loss of turbo delivery pressure. Also, a lot of these vintage DT's were manual shutoff. If yours is, is the shutoff control being pushed all the way in to the run position? Just a few thoughts.
Dt466 No manual shut off, no wastegate, I checked the hoses to the cooler and they are not leaking. I plan on checking the condition of the turbo next. I know this truck, has got to have more power than what it has, the state of Pa, had a bunch of them as single axle dump trucks, they pulled that load and now it wouldnt pull half that load. Thanks for any suggestions
I agree 12 lbs is to low on the boost pressure.It should be around 15 to 20 at full throttle under load.If there are no leaks in the system and everthing else checks out ,I 'd say the injection pump needs turned up a bit.Another thing to check is "full throttle".With the engine off have someone step on the thottle and feel the linkage at the pump to see that its at full travel.On a "hot engine" that has been "turned up" at the pump ,its common to see 25 to 30 lbs of boost pressure.It could also have an anaroid valve on the pump.It senses boost pressure in the manifold and limits the amount of fuel the pump can deliver untill boost pressure rises.The dt 466 is a good engine and will make alot of power.
Dt466 Thanks, Ill check on that throttle linkage any ideas on how to turn the pump up? I have turned the pump up on a Cat 3306, thats easy
If you don't have manual fuel shutoff, it may be using a solenoid to turn on fuel, make sure it's pulling the fuel lever all the way in. And I've seen what 25c describes, over the years linkage get's worn and next thing you know the throttle pedal doesn't pull the injection pump lever all the way in, and even a small amount makes a difference. If you could inspect your turbo turbine and impeller would be nice. If your certain your fuel lines are good/clear, and you've replaced the filters, you might consider replacing the fuel lift pump. If it comes down to injection pump repair, your still going to want to replace the lift pump along with it.
Dt466 Thanks, guys Keepem coming, the more things, the better. It will be next week, sometime, before I can get around to much of this, but I will let you know, when we get it figured out
You did say that the truck starts fine. However I have seen the check valve in the return line go bad and still allow the truck to start fine, then when there is a demand for fuel the pump can't build pressure due to a weak spring in the check valve, but most of the time you will have low power and hard starting. I would remove the check valve from the return line on the injection pump and blow through it. If you can blow through it, it is bad.
Thanks, Ill add that to the list Keepem coming
Does it have an aneroid valve on the injection pump that 25c mentioned? If so, look for a rather large plug in the area of the aneroid valve. If you find one and remove it, have someone start the engine and throttle it up to the governor. You should see a reaction viewing through the hole of the removed plug. If all this happens, it means the aneroid valve is at least operational and you should notice some form of adjustment in there. Been a while since I've done one, can't tell you much more than that.
I have no idea what a aneriod valve is, but Ill check on it
I can't remember if your model has one. I remember the inline pumps did, but that's more around the mid 80's. If it has an aneroid valve, you should see some form of line that goes from the intake manifold to an assembly component of the injection pump. That would be the aneroid valve. There is usually a plug in the area of the valve to access the star wheel and adjust the fuel control. I found a webpage that has a little info that might help you out. Scroll down to the section on the DT466. http://www.freewebs.com/nevrenufhp/index.htm
Torque convertor problem ? Dragging reverse band ? Binding brake ?
I've driven the 466 with both Allisons and sticks, and the autos seem like pigs compared to the sticks. The only way I've been able to get performance from an Allison equipped 466 is drive it like an old Detroit, pegged against the governor by manually shifting the auto. Our fire tanker is set up that way and I can almost stay with the pumper going to a call driving it that way. If I let the truck shift itself I lose sight of the pumper every time. It might just be the combo you have.
Hmmm, I haven't driven a 466 with an Allison, makes sense that they wouldn't have the same feel as a manual tranny because of the torque convertor. I think we're just curious about the 12 lbs boost. Even with an auto trans, I would think you should see more than that. I worked on a single axle Freightliner fuel tank truck that had a Cummins and an Allison. Driver said it wouldn't get out of it's own way on a hill. I found it had a bad wastegate control pot that was leaking the boost pressure that controls the aneroid valve. When that happens, the aneroid doesn't "turn up the fuel delivery" at turbo boost rpm's. Not saying that's the problem with this one though, several things yet to consider on this one, including, "that's just the way it is!"
I wasn't suggesting anyone is wrong with their diagnosis, just adding another idea. We've got two 1600 gallon tankers on 4900 chassis with this set up and they are both pigs. One firehouse has a hill right off the driveway, and from the other firehouse there's a long hill that divides half the town. These trucks are shamefully slow attacking these hills, almost to the point of me feeling foolish having red lights flashing while climbing them, lol. I guess the lights help prevent someone from running into the back of me. Even when these trucks are empty they aren't as snappy as you'd expect. To the contrary, my buddy had a 6 wheel dump on an S-18something chassis with a 5 x 2 trans and that truck was a pleasure to drive. I took it on a 400+ mile trip through the mountains of upstate NY and had no trouble staying at traffic speed with 10,000 pounds load on. I rarely dropped more than one gear all day long. I'm not familiar with any of the mechanical specs of the 466, and there might be something amiss with our tankers, but it seemed funny that they would both be pigs and I thought I'd mention it.
Let me guess....you had a guy on a bicycle pass you going up a hill! :Banghead :lmao :falldownlaugh To be clear, though, I didn't think you were suggesting a flawed diagnosis. To the contrary, I think you and iron horse offered good possiblities. I think there's more to this one yet before we can say for sure what the problem is, if there is, in fact, a problem. But it's interesting trying to noodle through it.
Twelve pounds of boost is about 24 inches of mercury which isn't that bad for that year of truck. In that era the most boost I saw on highway trucks was 30 inches or about 15 PSI. We had a twin screw dump truck with an eight speed that did OK going down hill. Luckily we hauled loads down hill and returned empty. A person could definitly ride a bicycle back faster than that truck would carry a load back up the hill. What is needed is some factory performance specifications on that engine so some real troubleshooting can be done. Chances are that it needs a tune up and some tweeking in the fuel pump. But if you don't know what it is supposed to be at, you are basically peeing in the wind. Good Luck!
The 466 of that era were that slow. That low of booost also sounds about right. The rotary pump can be adjusted, I just dont have any pix of what it looks like under the big square cover. I think the highest rating with that pump was 210 or 203hp.....but they run forever. If you really want to make something out of it, you can put an inline pump on it(the Bosch MW pump is a bolt in) with the lines, but I dont remember if the injectors are different. Also, pulloff.com has some high flow rotary pumps for sale from the sled pullers. It may be a tad smoky though . Much past 230hp, and you will need a better turbo.
OK, I did a little checking today, I pulled the inlet hose, off the turbo, lot of loose motion in the blades. They are not hitting the sides, but its loose. Also the housing, is loose where it goes into exhaust end of the turbo. Still couldnt make out the style of the fuel injection pump, let me try to explain 1.At the front of the pump, and kinda on top, is where the fuel lines hook up, that goes to the injector nozzles. In the center of the circle, is a nut, about 3/4-7/8" wrench 2.At the rear/back, is a funny looking unit, that has a wing nut, that holds the top on (I guess) 3. At the rear side, there is a steel line (about 1/4") that comes from the fuel control, to the intake manifold Question???? where is the serial number for the engine located? Remember, this engine was built in 1980 Info:I do not have a wastegate on the turbo Thanks for any suggestions Does anyone have a good turbo for this engine?
Turbos will have a little end play and some side play on the shaft,Maybe .010 to .015 thousandths of an inch is normal.I have seen them alot looser.Is there a band clamp where the housing is loose that could be tightend a bit to fix it.It sounds like you have an american bosch injector pump.The unit at the rear of the pump with the wing nut on top is the primer pump.Unscrew the wing nut and fold the bracket down to use the plunger pump to manualy prime the system.The line comming from the intake manifold is going to the aneroid valve.You might remove the line and make sure its open,check the suction lines & drop tube in the tank for obstructions.12 lbs of boost is not enough.
Thanks, for the info
Dt466 Forgot to add, the place where the turbo is loose, is where it goes into the back section (hot section) this turbo doesnt have a band clamp there, its about 8- 3/8" bolts, with a locking tab, where its loose. I have checked turbo looseness, before and I have never seen one this loose. it doesnt leak oil, so I guess the seal is still OK. I will check the line going to the intake, thanks
I see.You might be able to install new bolts ,torque them down to fix the leak at the turbo.You would think the seal would leak with play in the shaft.Turbos are different,they use a ceramic type seal and they need a little play spinning at that many rpm's.My gut feeling is telling me the low power problem is at the injection pump.
Thanks for any info
How about his pump for an upgrade: http://www.pulloff.com/read.php?3,21783 Here's a little picture of the rotary pump of a 466 we have at work.
I got smart today (I thought) and said, Ill check the rear ration, to see if I have the wrong ratio, for my work. YUMMMMMMMMMMMM its the first time, there hasnt been a ration on a tag. I wrote all the stuff down and called my rebuild company and he said none of those numbers mean anything (as far as ratio goes) He did say that Int. had a bad habit of not mating the auto tranny with the correct rear. He did say take it down the road and see how fast it would run, lets say it runs 75mph, then the rear needs to be different, to slow the speed and give more low end. Ive still got to do this check. I called my local Int. dealer, he said he would have to look the factory ratio, up on microfish (brought back just how old I am) STILL WAITING TO HEAR FROM THEM. This is the Vin #1HTCA2555BHA30454 does anyone, have a way to find out, what ratio, this truck came with? Im assuming it has the same rear as when new. Thanks for any suggestions
I just tried to pull that vin with my International Fleet ISIS login and it would not pull that vin #. So 1 it is just to old for the system or 2. I am only allowed to pull information on vin's in our fleet. sorry
Thanks for trying
Jack up the rear end ,mark the driveshaft with a piece tape,rotate the left & right side wheels one turn while observing the number of times the drive shaft turns.If the drive shaft turns 3 1/2 times to one turn on the wheels it's a 3.50 ratio rear.
If you do this , you must use another vehicle to check the speed as your speedo runs off the gearbox and a change in diff ratio will only change the ground speed and not the speed indicated on the speedo . To check the diff ratio , block both front wheels for safety as you will need to release the park brake . Jack up one rear wheel , mark a spot on the tyre and mark the tailshaft . Rotate the wheel and count the revolutions of the shaft . You must then divide by two , to account for the sun gears in the diff . I.E , if you count 8 turns , divide by two , and you can assume it is close to 4.0 -1 .
Dividing by 2 is only necessary if only one tire turns(open diff) when doing this test. Never know, might have a locker.
Yes , as i said , jack up one rear wheel . If it has a locked diff , both sides will need to be raised as 25c already said .
great idea Thanks Anyone guess at what I should have, pulling a 28ft gooseneck, 10 ton trailer, with a Bobcat on it. I was thinking 3.90 4?? I hope to find out the top speep of the truck in the next few days and that will help, with this problem also Thanks Guys
Depending on the tire size and if it doesn't have overdrive, shoot for 3.90-4.44. I'm thinking it has 4.44 in it now.
thanks
Just a thought , if it runs 11R's or 10.00 tyres/tires , you could drop down too 9.00's or the equivalent tubeless size on the drive . It will affect your top end but will also give you some grunt . It's a cheap way out , especially if you need tyres anyway .
Im sure they are, 11Rx22.5, I have 5 trucks and its hard to remember, which is which. That is a very good idea, thanks. It will help my tail end, from being so high also (I think) I really dont need tires, but I can use the tires on the other trucks. Im still hoping someone can find out what rear this truck came with
Well found out that if I change tire sizes, I change my weight capacity. Guess it was a good thought though
If I'm reading this chart correctly , you will actually improve the carrying capacity with low profile tyres . http://www.conti-online.com/generat...neraluniversity/tire_talk/low_profile_en.html
I might be out there in left field, but my tire guy, told me a 9r22.5 was not a low profile tire. He said the foot print of the tire, makes a difference on the capacity. My dump trucks have 285/85/22.5 on the drops (Im just guessing at this size, I could be off a little) I was told these are low pros Im not going this route, so I guess we can close the tire thingee My local mechanic, told me to take the cover (4 bolts) off the top of the injection pump. Put 12 psi (thats all the boost press I have) on the arenoid valve and look to see if it hits/pushs the fuel cam. He had one, that he showed me what to do, shows simple. He thinks (as others has said) that this maybe the problem. I plan on checking this, as soon as possible Thanks for the info
Dt466 Found the turbo was bad. I found one on a used bad engine. It really does make a difference, of course its not a Cat 3406, but at least it will get out of its own way now. Thanks for all the help