Hope I don’t step on any toes by posting this, but something that’s been baffling me for the past few years is the extreme popularity of small dump trailers. Lets say anything from 7-20k gvwr, tag along or gooseneck. Seems to me they are quite expensive, very limited in capacity and become an anchor the second you go off-road. Also they are slow as death to dump and you have to worry about a battery having enough charge to dump the load. In full transparency, I’ve never owned or even used a dump trailer so maybe I just don’t know any better. For a homeowner or very occasional user I can maybe see the apeal, but it seems like every GC, landscaper, small excavating co, handyman etc has one. What am I missing?
They are running around with a personally plated pickup, no cdl, no commercial insurance etc. which makes it way cheaper than a dump truck.
They can get into places a big truck can't, dump under powerlines and carry a small load when you don't need a big one. Use mine lots. I've also carried 20 foot culverts, firewood and trash.
My little F600 s/a dump is 23000gvw (under CDL), hauls 6 ton legally, tags AND commercial ins cost me $700/yr. I believe part of it is just people don’t realize you can own and operate a small dump truck far cheaper than their pickup and dump trailer.
I’d bet dollars to donuts that I can get either of my 153” wb single axle dump trucks in anywhere one could get a dump trailer, barring any super low overhead clearance. I will say that for trash or small amounts of construction debris leaving a dump trailer on site may be more handy.
They’re perfect for people who don’t want the expense of an additional large dump truck. Ever had to unload a truck or non dumping trailer by hand at the landfill and then you watch a guy pull up, dump his trailer in 2 minutes and drive away? Ever needed just a yard or two of material to finish up a job? Only draw back is your neighbors will want to borrow it all the time Edit: Dump trailers are to contractors what SUV’s are to soccer moms.
I wouldn't get enough use out of a dump truck to make it worth buying and maintaining Mine's been quite handy
They are handy for random things including brush and trees which is not fun if your putting on a flatbed also try putting that in a dump truck. To load a dump truck how you do it without a loader? Can I put roofing in your dump truck, you ok taking it to jail city at the dump?
Way less maintenance than a dump truck, much lower loading height, can load by hand and more versatile to name a few. How do you carry a skid steer or mini-ex in a dump truck? They are expensive but so is a new dump truck. Questions like this are kind of strange to me. Anybody can scew the answers to fit their agenda. For a lot of people dump trailers are a good solution for a variety of different tasks.
Not sure I understand this question/comment? Lots of roofers around here use dump trucks, many use dump trailers. I’ll admit my view may be jaded as I’ve been around agricultural and construction my entire life. Almost every farm had an old 2-ton truck, mostly either grain trucks, flatbed dump, sometimes a standard 10’ gravel box dump truck. I currently farm and run a construction business and have no problem keeping my two dump trucks and one grain truck (which is essentially a14’ flatbed dump) busy. The old C60 grain truck gets the least usage but also costs next to nothing, farm use plates are free in Va, ins on that truck is $60/yr, might change the oil every 2-3yrs.
If we’re talking occasional use/homeowners, etc I’d agree with many of your points, including the maintenance. What I’m wondering about are the contractors that are using these dump trailers day in and day out. I’m 100% certain that a class 6-7 truck will outlast multiple pickups and dump trailers under commercial use. Cost per mile will be considerably less and safety on the road will be greater. I can’t count the number of dump trailers that I see with bent axles from being grossly overloaded. FWIW, can load my skid steer or small tractor into my dump truck the same way one would with a dump trailer, just takes longer/more expensive ramps, a loading dock, or a good bank. The mini ex would fit, but boom may be over the 4’ max overhang, haven’t tried that yet. Plus I can hook any trailer I want to the truck and haul equipment with ease compared to trying to fit it in a dump trailer, but then we’re getting back into CDL territory.
I think a lot of smaller outfits with skid steers and mini-ex's would use a dump trailer for smaller jobs and hire a dump truck if they had more material to deal with. There are a lot of outfits that couldn't justify a dump truck that's only required occasionally. If you're running a gas powered 3 ton or larger dump truck you're probably lucky to get 8 MPG. Then there's insurance and maintenance costs. Commercial insurance is pretty high for a dump truck especially a tandem. Where I'm at if you want to go more than about 20 miles outside the city limits you need to get province wide insurance and registration and it's significantly higher than local insurance and registration. That's the other issue. If you need a dump truck you usually need full loads. It's not cost effective to haul twice as many loads with a single axle. Just reading on here several larger contractors say it's more cost effective to hire dump trucks than to own their own. Also if you're talking about a dump truck outlasting several pick up are comparing new to new? A used dump truck the same price as a dump trailer might not last any longer. I used to have a Hino single axle dump truck and it was great. It got about 15 MPG empty and was great for small jobs but if I needed topsoil or gravel I usually needed a tandem load or more. It was far cheaper and more efficient to have the materials delivered. The place I got topsoil would haul the old material away after they dumped the topsoil. It was only about $40 a load extra back in the 90's. I could keep working and be finished the job a lot faster because I didn't have stop to go pick up materials or haul loads to a dump site. I didn't even know where you could dump old torn up lawns and stuff. Didn't have to when the truck that brought the new soil hauled it away.
I had one and it was great. It gave me versatility that I couldn't have gotten with a dump truck. I hauled tools locked up in my truck and still had the dump option. I could leave the trailer on the site (never overnight) if I need to run errands or get materials. I didn't use it that much, but when I did, it was a cost and time saver for my small operation. It was perfect for demo, base course, the occasional small skid steer or mini ex, cinder block, and even metal roof panels. There was no way I could have justified or afforded even a small dump truck.
Not going to get that truck plated and commercially insured here in AL for $700. That would be at least $2K total per year. Just the tag for my '13 F350 with 200K miles on the clock is $500 per year plus insurance. We built a dump trailer we use more as a flatbed and it's currently sitting in my side yard loaded with Bradford Pear trimmings and other yard debris. Most that trailer has hauled in the last 4 years.
Dump trailer for the average small contractor is an illusion that they are self sufficient They have a place but in the scale of dirt moving there not much they just cant haul any serious weight and if you had to move a decent amount of material to make money it would not pencil out but like was mentioned above it's really that people are trying to avoid cdl rules and have a dump truck Not sure why people fight so hard to stay out of a real truck and skirt the law with a 1 ton in general I see almost everyday an 8 k mini loaded in a bumper pull dump trailer its overloaded and pulled by a single rear wheeled pickup But at the end of the day a platinum 1 ton looks really good going to the lake cant say so much for a dump truck and that dump truck is not a fun grocery getter Basically dump trailer for a small contractor allow guys to justify the purchase of new high trim package pickups and write it off same thing a gooseneck trailer does for a lot of guys to move a backhoe or 308 Homeowner use is a completely different story
Pulled out my paperwork and I was a little off, comercial auto insurance on that truck is liability only, $1M coverage, $678 per year, tags are just a tick over $400 per year. Still though, that truck should easily make that back in less than one week of work per year.
My thoughts exactly. A good portion of the dump trailers I see are being pulled by a $80k pickup, lifted, on Rockstar/Custom Offset/whatever-is-cool-right-now rims and 37”+ tires. Now I don’t know what their balance sheet looks like, nor am I one to tell a man how to spend his own money. BUT, I do know that I personally am not in business to buy expensive toys. Everything must pencil out and have a substantial ROI.
One thing all these trailers are really good at---taking up three parking spaces at Ranch & Home or the grocery store & parked crooked.
Most roofers around here use a dump trailer so they can avoid the nails in the ground at the dump. There are a few that use dump trucks but I rather have a nail in a trailer tire then a truck tire. I think dump trailers main quality is low side height and multi purpose use. A dump truck is better in every way except the side height.
Ok I see. In our county we have a transfer station with a concrete floor, back in the building and dump. I always make sure the floor is completely clean before backing in, especially with the big trucks.
As far as versatility goes, I rank my F700 with 10’ gravel bed pretty high. Hauls 8 tons, can tailgate gravel or lay the tailgate down to haul logs or lumber. With sideboards it’ll haul 5yds, take sideboards off and its low enough to load with my little B series Kubota tractor. Tows 30k. Averages about 9.5mpg and fits in a regular sized parking spot. Just need to add some underbody tool boxes and a 2” receiver for smaller trailers for even more versatility. CDL is required and doesn’t ride near as good as a Platinum F250 (although I wouldn’t know, lol)
Dumps around here have construction debris and is cheaper, dump on the dirt gets pushed into a pile and land filled, like $20 a ton. Regular trash you unload on a concrete floor and gets pushed into a valley that loads into a tractor trailer, $68 a ton. Dump trailer with sides as low as 4' are pretty handy when you don't have a loader, but trucks are way handy in every way other than that
They provide dump capability. If they had a remote dump and a remote tailgate latch, then it would be handy. My buddy Pete built a custom single axle in the 80's that is still going strong. Now that thing is handy. 3500 pound axle, about 3500 pounds of capacity. It is just as narrow as my 79" wide truck and I can skinny it into all sorts of tight spots.
Yeah! Then you can pull a dump trailer!
And hook up a remote kit on the dump trailer, then you'd be really hauling
That's a different argument, and one that's totally valid. Years ago I went by a job another contractor was working on to scope out reframing the deck. He and the customer started giving me crap for driving an old truck (I laughed and told them I only had three more payments). The contractor had a stupid expensive fancy truck, all the bells and whistles. I asked the customer "Who do you think you're overpaying?" and pointed at both our trucks. Both nodded and shut up It's not the dump trailer per se, it's the guys that think that's the only way. Who knows what situation they're in. Some guys only have a hammer so everything looks like a nail. Maybe it's just a one time thing and it doesn't make sense to get a dump truck ...like hauling 3,500 lbs of concrete to the recycling place down the street
Is the f-700 dump truck 4x4 ?
Put a pintle hitch on it - no more borrowing. People outside the business don't know what to do with a pintle hitch. Only trailer we don't have a pintle on is an old enclosed trailer and my RV. LOL - We use our dump trailer we built more as a flatbed and it comes in pretty handy hauling all sorts of stuff. Rarely use the electric hoist. Drilled holes in the rear so we can mount a mortar mixer when we have a lot of covers, grates and inverts to set and pour. We can get all the brick, sand, cement and a water tote on trailer. Pulls great behind my 350 Platinum 4x4 diesel..
The vehicle you drive can be seen as advertising the quality of work you do so I don't agree that just because a contractor drives a fancy vehicle they charge more. From a customers standpoint would you trust a contractor who shows up in an old rust bucket or one that shows up with clean modern vehicle? A dump trailer would be fine if it does the job.
I do think this is a factor as well, there is a lot of monkey-see-monkey-do with GCs and landscapers. None of my medium duty trucks are 4wd, nor would I wan’t one. Maintenance is higher, and initial cost is much higher and drivetrain options are limited. Mine go plenty fine off road, was recently on a very muddy job site hauling in gravel alongside another contractor and his 4wd F450 mason dump. He got stuck dozens of times, never had to hook a chain to my truck once. A 3/4 ton 4wd pickup pulling any kind of heavily loaded trailer off road is virtually worthless, BTDT on nearly a weekly basis lol
All my trailers of any size have pintle hitches, so much easier and faster to hook up and far more durable than a ball hitch. I’m slowly convincing my friends to convert their trailers to pintle, once you go pintle you’ll never go back. I think your reputation means a whole lot more to a customer than what you drive. My business is 100% word of mouth, I have zero advertising, no web site, no lettering on my trucks, no yard signs, nothing. Sometimes I pull up to do an estimate in my ratty ‘93 F250, sometimes in one of our nice cars, seems to make no difference if I get the job or not.
Minor point... No trailer that I've seen has a pintle hitch. The pintle hitch is on the tow vehicle. The trailer has a lunette ring My truck screams "Value" Altough I did get pulled over in Kirkland once. Cops obviously thought I was stealing something or up to no good. They were pretty pissed once they realized I was legit and had a license and insurance
I think people did use to think new truck meant something but almost everyone has an old car themselves so it's not so much to look bad. I'm still using my 06 work truck
Meh - outcome is the same. Nobody wants to borrow it.
Looks are deceiving, here in town a mobile mechanic has a pile of a C65 chevy as a service truck, mechanically it's tops. Cab is three different colors, box has rust trails around the hinges and generally crusty. He is busier than a Cat burying **** on a concrete floor, combine/ag mechanic best in town, and the farmers know it. They couldn't give damn what he drives what they do give a damn about is what he knows and can accomplish.
That's my dad. He's mostly retired now, but he still runs his '73 F-350 that he bought in '83 when he needs to. The cab is shot but it's mechanically solid. His customers have never cared, or at least not enough to not call him again.
Drive what you want, spend what you want but do the best you can do at what you do. Everything else will fall into place.
Guy here has ten of them. He drops it at your house instead of a dumpster. So much a day plus so much a tonne, with a minimum charge for a load. A lot of the roofers use him. Big sign on the trailers for advertising. He goes steady
That's a nifty set-up.
Now they have the little roll off trailers they rent as well. 5-10 CY boxes great for residential and small projects. Kicked around the idea of adding it as a service.
I am spoiled, I strip into the dump truck when I can. If you can´t hit it from above though, a high sided truck is no bueno from the ground level. There is a chimney in that load too.
There's a difference between an established business and someone relatively new in the game. If a customer is getting estimates they can sometimes think the guy that shows up with a ratty old truck that needs a muffler isn't going to do the highest quality of work.
Agree. Some of the snow removal contracts want an equipment list. We do the walmart. A guy under bid us one fall. First storm, they tried to plow it with a 3/4 ton truck with a plow, and a skid steer. We were plowing there next storm. Some spots want newer machinery as well. Our fleet is getting older, and with all the downtime some of this emission stuff causes, a lot of the older stuff is getting a fresh coat of paint.
I lived in an apartment for a little while and couple guys from a farm or something brought an older skid steer to clear the snow. It was about -25C and there was no cab or heater on the machine. One guy would clear snow for about 1/2 an hour and then go warm up in the truck and the other would run the did steer. The truck was running the whole time. What was even worse is they just leveled off the packed snow and didn't dig down to pavement. 3 days later it warmed up and people were getting stuck. They had to call a bigger outfit who brought a wheel loaders to dig the snow up. That was bit of a gong show too. The job was 3/4's done and the guy quit at 5 o'clock. Came back the next day for less than 2 hours. Ridiculous is an understatement.
Even the new member on here who works for Jade said the emissions stuff on newer machines poses a serious safety hazard if a machine breaks down in the middle of nowhere and it's -30 out with poor cell phone service. Snow clearing equipment like graders should have military type specs. with factory deletes.
I have a gooseneck dump trailer with 2 7000 lb axles and an 8x8 flatdeck over the neck. I wired it to the truck with #4 cables and a quick coupler so the battery is never dead. I also added a 4000 lb winch to assist the start of lift for those heavy loads that it wouldn't dump on its own. Its nice to just leave at a site and fill with garbage. Most people are envious when you wheel into the dump and unload while they are handbombing it off.
W-O-W....does your f-700 fly too ? Get out the tape measure, it's getting deep in here.....
Don’t have to take my word for it, go ride with any of the ol boys hauling logs out of the mountains if you want to see where a truck can go. Or guys hauling silage along side the chopper or grain out of the field during a wet fall. Sure you get stuck sometimes but its also amazing where you can go with a good driver and a truck thats setup right (not too heavy on the front, good aggressive tires, lockers etc.) They do a lot better than a pickup pulling a trailer, thats for damn sure. If conditions get really bad throw a set of double row tire chains on.
You seem to be bent on calling yourself right on everything eh ? Not everything is right for everyone. Get over it.
Well everyone gets overloaded at times! Hum, cheap undersized electric scissor lift dump trailer, or big lift cylinders PTO, 5 yd or 12yd dump trucks that lifts faster and with better dump angles. Gets old real fast when you go to dump your dump trailer, and the load is too heavy to dump, or not all of the load will come out because it does not lift high enough. I started out with a couple of dump trailers and I'm not going back to shoveling dirt out in the rain to get it to dump. And I prefer my tilt trailers with D-rings every few feet to haul equipment around. Then again, the big dump truck so far has some return of investment concerns.
It’s kind of an “apple and oranges” thing... you can’t really compare a full size hauling truck with a smaller homeowner setup trailer. I think mg84 is talking about dump trailers being used for actual bulk hauling of material while in Real life they’re just used by contractors to haul trash and debris from job sites. ..or small scale landscapers moving bark or decorative gravel. Good discussion tho:.. I’m in the market for a dump trailer and like hearing these opinions
Not really, I have nothing to prove or gain, just trying to get people to discuss and think about how and why we all do what we do. I have good success with my equipment doing my type of work, others may not. Obviously to a lot of people dump trailers are a good value as evident by the replies to this thread. I’d also guess that there are a lot of new land owners, small time farmers, etc out there that have no idea that you can go to a farm auction and pick up a really nice 2-ton grain truck for $2500. Sure it’ll be a little older, maybe gas powered, but most were very well taken care of. You can do a lot of work with a truck like that around a piece of property, for very little investment.
A lot of it is location too. Here in California you can’t use that old stuff... it’s either buy the new, expensive trucks or find a way around that with a dump trailer.
A lot of people don't want to license and insure that old truck either. Not to mention maintain it.
Here in New Hampshire there are no older trucks to buy. Turned to rust long ago.
I agree that for a homeowner, a dump trailer is the only way to go. That being said, often when I'm picking up gravel and topsoil, I see homeowners way over loading their dump trailers (to be safe and legal). Just this morning I had a contractor call me about hauling off some dirt. Although he has a dump trailer, he says it would take too long and be too many trips. If you're looking for a dump trailer, pay special attention to the way it dumps and note, that a dump trailer with just a couple of yards of gravel is around 6 tons. And most people will pick up 4 yds or more.
Yes, this is perhaps one of my biggest gripes with them. There are lots of them running around here with permanently bent axles/spindles from being overloaded. This is, of course, as much a problem with the operator as the equipment, but Harry homeowner doesn’t understand that you can’t fill it to the brim with gravel or heavy wet clay. Wasn’t a dump trailer, but one of the little single axle Uhaul open top trailers utility trailers, maybe 4x8 or whatever they are. It was sitting at the quarry with a wheel broken off, gravel spilling over the sides, probably 7000lbs of gravel on a 3500lb trailer. There is a line marked inside the box of those that says “gravel level” or something to that effect and its only just a few inches deep. Wish I’d have gotten a pic but was before I had a camera phone.
When that law gets passed there are going to a whole bunch of excavators and dozers that became snow removal machines . . .
I've not seen a "homeowner" with a dump trailer--way too expensive. I've seen utility trailers with sides (7k or less), but not dump trailers--unless they also own a landscaping or construction business.
Landowner may be a better term, there are plenty around here with a mini farm, homestead, hunting property, etc that have them.
They're popular around here. The smaller pits around here see a steady stream of dump trailers. They can't all be contractors and looking in people's driveways tells me they aren't. My in-laws went in on one, splitting it five or six ways. They get a lot of use of if it. I should add that they're very conscious about the towing capabilities of their pickups.
I rent them when I need to. Here is an example, this is a museum with a polished concrete floor, and the JD17 was what I could use. No skid steers, no moving the excavator except on plywood rips. I had to get this pile out of there.
My former neighbour had a dump trailer that I used a few times. One of my buddies built a garage and there were 6 loads of sod and dirt to get rid of over the coarse of his project. We shovelled off a flat deck with sides and dumped the next ones. That dump trailer moved my friends dirt, his wife’s manure to the recycle facility, logs for a sawmill, firewood, tractor And a bunch of other stuff I can’t remember. That dump trailer was handier than a shirt pocket. Cam
So another question I have, which is somewhat related to this dump trailer question, is where do people get all of the disposable income to buy all these things? Or is it easier access to consumer debt? Are we just getting lazy as a society or do people just have different priorities now than in the past and relocate their spending as such? Nowadays anyone with an acre or two has a compact or sub-compact tractor, most likely with a loader, backhoe and an army of 3pt attachments. Probably also have a zero turn mower and if they have a bit more acreage a UTV as well. I will say that I do have both a compact tractor and a zero turn, but I also farm and run a construction business that uses the tractor. Zero turn to mow the yard, farm yard and road frontage. Back in the 80’s and 90’s it seemed like nobody had any of these things, unless you had a large estate or some reason to own them. You hauled everything in the back of a pickup, loaded and unloaded by hand. A lawn tractor with a cart was all 90% of people needed to maintain their suburban lot or small rural acreage. Some had a 8n ford, 135 **, or the like to bush hog and plow snow if you had some acreage. Heck, we farmed between 160-180ac and didn’t even have a tractor with a loader until ‘98. And it seemed like most people were content that way, maybe just didn’t know any better. Just some things to ponder...
UPS drivers got a new contract. News article today said "average" driver will be making $170,000 per year pay and benefits by the end of the contract. Makes a dump trailer seem cheap.
Damn! Brown is not a flattering color but now I’m thinking of a career change. I guess shipping is going up..
Going to get A/C in the trucks too. Start tanning your legs now, most of them boys wear shorts.
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to have stipulations or even copies of snow removal contracts and lists of snow removal equipment municipalities and gov'ts. use. Look at something like the Coquihalla that needs to be open. You could even include tow trucks that are required to be at certain sections 24/7 during the worst storms. Imagine a semi is blocking the highway and the tow truck goes into derate or something. Now what do you do, know one can even get through to get to the tow truck.
Yes I hear and see that too. I can rent a Kubota about 2 miles away for $300. I figure I can rent those Kubotas a whole lot of times before I could justify buying one.
Brown is not hurting. 13 Billion in profit last year. https://investors.ups.com/news-even...ated Results,adjusted diluted EPS were $12.94 .
i did ‘t say they were…
Funny thread, I bought a riding mower/lawn tractor two years ago, I'm going to sell it. bought it for the wife, she didn't like it much, I ended up still mowing the lawn. I have a ten year old Toro self propelled/push mower starts on first pull. I like that mower because it's exorcise, takes one hour to mow lawn, plus I see all the weeds I need to spray. If I would need something hauled there is a guy who does that here in town, reasonable rates. The Deere dealer here has small equipment lined up out front like a bakery. Talking to one of the people who work there-most buy attachments they will use once or twice then it sets by the shack. People come in all the time wanting to sell the attachments they bought. It's a case of eye's are bigger than the plate of food, dealers play on that. As far as trailers in general or trucks is the need {I want it just to have it or I want it because I need it}. JGW-it's your money-waist it the way you want.
There is definitely a use for a dump trailer that a dump truck can't really fill. I have a tandem and a single axle truck. I do not have room to carry tools in a dump truck, nor can I carry fuel for machines, nor do I want to drive the fuel guzzlers around everywhere. I typically spend my money on tools that will allow me to complete any job that comes my way. For instance I own a sawmill, I am paid to take logs off of job site's. Typically load logs on to a trailer with a skid steer. Need one at the job site and one to unload. Need to take the skid steer to load logs, this can been done with a dump trailer, I could also carry saws, fuel and misc in the 450. At the end of the day I can take a load of logs by the mill then go home. Fuel cost is less and I could be ready to pick the machine back up. They fill a role for a one or 2 man show and allow you to tackle smaller jobs, sometimes better than a truck alone could. They don't carry as much but sometimes they can carry all you can produce in a days work. Bulk hauling of course a bigger truck. They are safer. My f750 is stronger, can carry more, but it is easier to load a lower trailer with BIG logs... 20' Trailers carry 18' logs nicely. If your not careful with a 14' single axle dump truck you can loose your steering because you can get too much tail weight. Of course this can go on and on.. I have a 20' extension for my mill, I can use logs 30' long now it gets interesting...
I started in the mid-90's with a gooseneck dump trailer. It held about 5-6 cy of material. Worked well enough, I coated the bed with graphite paint to help material slide out. I used it until I could afford a dump truck. There is one concrete guy here that tears out a lot of concrete he has a GN dump trailer that is massive and he is way over loaded everytime I see him. Pulls it with a 5500. There are some applications where it works really well apparently. Some of the higher end dumps like Diamond C has the hoist in the front of the trailer, they can really lift. The biggest issue I see is they, regardless of size they are constantly overloaded.
Diamond C aren't considered a very high end trailer here in Alberta.
I have a 14k bumper pull 8x16 deckover dump with fold down sides (not for hire). The versatility of this thing can't hardly be beat. I swapped the axles to the under sides of the springs to help off-road, works just shy of amazing . Backing in mud or snow off-road is tricky though. Ask my OEM rear bumper on my $80k F-350 (<<<only said that cause seems some of y'all are super against spendy comfortable newer pickup trucks) Like I mentioned above I got a better battery. The fold down sides are great for loading various things. The roll up mesh tarp deal is quick and easy to cover loads. I can haul a Jeep in/on it. So having said all that, the versatility (keep using that word huh) made the trailer really easy for me to justify. I've probably hauled 400-600 yards of rock with it since last year (I never keep track past the days haul, I pay 'em cash when I'm done). But I've saved at least as much as I've spent as hiring out the rock hauling costs me a little over half again as much. I was in a pinch one time last year and it was pretty great watching the dump truck drop 10 yards at a time. But it cost more. I'm quasi retired so my time is kinda free. In closing Dump Trailers are great IMO.
Wow, 400-600 yards of rock in a year! That's a lot of rock, and a lot of small loads! ! What kind of project are you doing? Sounds interesting.
It's actually more goofball than interesting. We relocated for a new job and a better place to raise our children. Homes were slim pickings so we ended up on 10 acres of more or less unimproved land. I didn't have much of an idea of what we were going to do with it and I've been shooting from the hip the entire time...which has made for some over doing it on the rock. And I run it a little thick at times as well. I've yet to really build anything. I've got a little rock pad...sprawl(?) going on. Good size turn around for tractor trailers. A pad for 2 fifth wheels. The beginnings of an outdoor shop work area between 2 shipping containers with 6' of elevation difference between them. And other varied nonsense. The pit where I get my rock I had the owner come out and give me some ideas on my septic system and he said something along the lines of "Ah, now I see what you been doing with all this rock." Without the gravel even in areas where the dirt was a pretty thin layer on top of bedrock it still just turns into mud when the rain and snow comes. So away I went and got crazy hauling.
I’d be curious to see how much wear and tear a light duty truck incurs hauling in upwards of 900 tons of rock. You may have better luck than me, but in my experience when you start using a pickup like that maintenance goes through the roof and lifespan is greatly decreased. Even if your time is “free” that sounds like a very expensive way to move rock....
I got 170,000 miles out of my last diesel pickup. Regular maintenance on this one doesn't look like it will cost me any more than my last. Tires every 40-50k. Oil change every 5-7500. Trans fluid every 30k. Fuel included my cost to get the rock myself is about 40% of having it delivered. And aside from all of that I can go grab a few loads when convenient as my time allows. I have tried to get material delivered and run into issues getting scheduled. Everybody is pretty busy over here. Again I didn't keep a perfect record, but I'm roughly $7500 in fuel and material vs paying someone else $18500. That savings right there was about what my trailer cost me new. When I need a bunch of rock I usually spend a whole Friday hauling from about 8:30-4:30. Otherwise I go pick up 2-4 loads in a day. So overall cost is lower. My time spent on this isn't too bad. Convenience. Versatility. I honestly look at it and think I have about the perfect use case. But to each there own.
Ok, so some interesting numbers here! So the F350 is a dually, right? What axles are on the trailer now and was the title modified? I assume you had two 7000lb axles. Did you upgrade to bigger? So the other questions are, how far is the pit from your place and is the route hilly? Next, when you get loaded, is it by the ton where you go over the scales, or loaded by the yard? Finally, regarding the rock, what kind of rock is it. Something like 3/4 minus or 5/8 minus gravel. Your prices must be way cheap! I'm jealous! Here in Seattle, WA we are over $5.00 for diesel, and my price(Contractor rate no tax is $37.50 a yard for 5/8 minus gravel). How many yards or tons go into your trailer in a load?
Had an F-450 on order in 20’, but by the end of 21’ I canceled it and decided to live with my F-350. Same 7000lb axles on the trailer that it came with. I run overloaded (for shame I know) Route is more or less flat until I get right back to the property. I stop at the bottom of the hill, throw it in 4lo and go. Not by the ton, no scales. The old boy at the pit (I consider him my friend) uses a big JD loaded with a heaping 4 yard bucket (I think it’s 4 anyway) to get 5 yards. He says he gives me fat 5’s. Lol. The scoops look the same as what he puts in the dump trucks for whatever that’s worth. I usually get 3/4” minus as I can use it for just about everything though it costs a little more. I’ve got a little bit of 2” minus, but it’s harder for me to rake out by hand so I only use it in specific areas. Diesel has been $4-4.50 And I can’t remember what it is a yard exactly. He has a sheet in his cab that we refer to. They mostly sell to businesses and he tells the paperwork gal how many loads they took of what. Last year I think it was $12 a yard. And this year It’s something funny like $12.75. It never maths out right and I end up paying them $30 too much or $12.25 too little (<something like that). I get about 5 yards and he says it’s probably around 15,000 lbs. Got to load it just right or it won’t lift it. But it’s cut down on a bunch of trips for me. I’m pushing it for sure. About 19 miles round trip.
dumping flatbed.
That poor trailer is pushing 20k, that's extremely hard on it. I hope you don't drive past like 50 loaded. I honestly would not worry about diesel pickups unless you get a 2018+
Not as hard on it as I am around the property... I roll 70 mph with it for about 3 miles, as long as it’s loaded right. The rest of my trip is on 45 mph roads.
That is terrifying. A lot of people don’t understand how overloaded and unsafe some of these loads behind a pickup are. Drive a class 7 or larger truck just once hauling the same weight and you’ll see how unsafe the pickup/trailer is.
Sure man terrifying…lol. Pulling my fifth wheel across windy Wyoming came close to terrifying, but the overloaded dump trailer, not so much.
You will drive slower once your pickup brakes get shot and your tires start passing you and your axles just fall off. I've driven 18k on 14k worth of axles, it's not pretty and it does not last long
To expound. My dump trailer weighs about 4000 lbs. If I haul 10,001 lbs in it I am not concerned. 10,100 not concerned. 11,000 not concerned. 12,000 some concern. 15,000 damn thing better be loaded right and I'm paying ultra attention to everything. 20,000 better be going super slow on the backroad. 20,000 lbs on this trailer at 70mph would fit the definition of terrifying.
What I'm doing in particular comes no where close to causing that kind of failure. People hauling trailers that have the weight improperly distributed are scary. What I got going on is essentially as dangerous as speeding. But yeah man catastrophic failure in 3, 2, 1...
Guilty!
You said previously the loader man is giving you “fat 5’s”, as in 5+ cu yds. Thats easily 15-16k of payload, possibly more, maybe a lot more. All our quarries now have scales built into the loaders, in years past it was just up to the loader man to judge how much he was putting on. I haul 8 tons on my single axle dump, loads ranged from 6.5 to 9.5 tons when you actually cross the scales. Sometimes depending in the material 7 tons doesn’t look much different than 9 tons. Regardless I’d bet your are probably grossing 20k+ on a trailer rated for 14k. With as many loads as you’ve hauled overloaded, failure is only a matter of time, I just hope it doesn’t involve any innocent motorists. Everything is fine until it isn’t...
With the load placed correctly I'm probably about 8k on each trailer axle maybe a hair less. Which puts 4-5k on the pickup. Without hitting a scale it's hard to know. Let's keep it rolling, tell me where you think this big failure is going to happen.
Even if something did happen-he's living off 93 south of Missoula, not much out there to get in trouble with, kind of remote. People will do whatever, not worth the argument.
Dude, going that heavy it's just a matter of time. Like I said I have put less than that kind of weight on a tandem 7ks. Failure is guaranteed.
There’s no way in the world you are putting 4-5k of tongue weight on a bumper pull hitch on a 1-ton pickup, if you are that may well be your first failure point. FWIW, my big pintle hitch equipment trailer puts about 5000-5500lbs tongue weight on my class 7 trucks when loaded heavy and you can tell. With that being said I’m still under the assumption that you are grossly overloading the trailer. First failure point will be something in the wheel/axle group. I’ve seen many dump trailers with bent axles, broken spindles, broken wheel centers, etc. If (when?) an accident does happen the DOT and lawyers are going to love you, especially since you’ve laid out all of your negligence perfectly on a public forum.
First thing you will see is the first 1/2:-1" of the inside of the tires will wear and show steel while the rest of the tire will look like new. Next thing is you will be going through tires like crazy, a 10 ply tire won't even hold it will just blow. 14 ply will need max air pressure more than the rim is rated for Then tires will start passing you, spindles will get so damaged you will have to weld the spindle nut on so you can get the trailer home. Then if you continue in your stupidity your frame will start to crack by the hitch and probably by the axles. If you haven't learned by then you will start to lose axles.
It's not going to bother the late model F350, but the trailer . . . LOL
LULZ!!! I've gone 164MPH on a public road. I've overloaded trailers. I rip tags off of mattresses. I won't vaccinate my children. Various other things. Gonna bend a 10" I beam frame at these weights, how 'bout no. Tires are rated of 4410 lbs a piece. I keep an eye on them for wear, maybe I'd need to put way more miles on to see it, but they are still even as of now. Axles haven't shown any signs of bending. No way I'm putting 4k on the truck? Could be right, but my eye says I am. Keep checking the news fella's that failure is bound to happen Seriously though you should be more concerned about all these people pulling travel trailers with no clue. And the huge motor homes that require zero training. But I understand freedom is scary and you think I'm on the path to ruin here.
The mattress tags-now that's really over the line.
Dude I know you are
Yes way over.
Anyhow. I love my particular style of dump trailer due to it's versatility. Having said that if they changed the DOT regs and came up with a light version of a CDL say an enhanced weight rating or towing capacity license I think that could be a good thing. With the advances in vehicle technology and strengthened materials the 26,000lb threshold could be bumped up quite a bit. Then you guys would have less to complain about. Or perhaps it would be more?
Compression-Ignition, I do have to say thank you. Your posts over the past couple pages have Illustrated perfectly the caviler weekend warrior attitude that many (but not all of course) dump trailer owners have. I couldn’t have put it in words any better myself.
Cavalier...in this context I guess I kinda agree with you. I think I put a little more thought into towing how I do than the average fella, but overall yeah sure, cavalier. I don't think y'all would like it up here in Montana.
CDL doesn't make a safer or better driver
If you have not broke something on your trailer, I would bet your load is less than you think. I snapped an 8k axle at the drop spindle, lost the wheel, tire, brake assembly, and piece of axle at 55 mph. I have broken every lug off one of the wheels. Lost the tire and rim. Lost so many tires in hot weather. Use 4400 lbs tires now on 14k trailers. I have cracked 2 trailer rims From basic use. 2 weeks ago, I hit a small hole towing a 17k I motor grader on a 10 ton trailer (8 tires) at 70 mph. Got to the job, 4 studs broke on one of the 10k dexter axles, and it spilt the metal rim. If you keep the speed down and can miss holes great. But if you are rolling in heavy traffic at 500 am in the dark forget it. I upgraded to a new trailer with 2 10 k axles with singles, and an i beam frame. The rims centers are 1/2 steel plate and noticeably stronger. But I still shredd the tires even more so than the 14k setup. But I do max the trailers capacity out.
My point with the CDL light comment is that it could change what we buy and use. There are a lot of games being played so that people can stay under 26k. There is no practical reason that a guy shouldn't be able to tow for example, an 18k or 20k dump trailer with an F-450. Besides the arbitrary limit of 26k.
4 lane highway, for the 3 miles I'm on it I see probably 30 vehicles. It is daylight when I am on the road.
I get it. You will find your weak spot sooner or later. If the weight is not balanced right and you loose a rear tire you might end up in the ditch.
Lot's of good "talk" here! I'm thinking now I may be operating way too conservative with my Kenworth Triaxle dump truck. I've been hauling just 12yards of gravel at a time. But now I'm thinking I should be asking for 18-20yds at a time. I'm not going far, and will stay off State Highways. Any concerns?
Might as well load it till gravel spills over the sideboards. If it has a decent sized cab guard be sure to stack the load out on that as well, just for good measure. No need to make more trips than necessary.
Reminds me of when we were fully loading this old Ford dump truck completely full, probably was around 60k gross. Not too bad for a 3208 5x4 and no front brakes
Right, because everyone who runs a dump trailer is advocating for that. You running your dump truck day in and day out is exactly the same as me putting in a weeks worth of hauling over a year and a half time span.
Oh boy.
See how tall that cab protector is when ya load the bed ya heap it then ya heap the 5 ton cab protector then ya put on a touch more. Listing to the story's of the old timers 100 some thousand hualing coal was a normal day. Supposedly the record is 148000 across the scale in to the one cleaning plant. If your being serious you may as well be running around a tandem and not have to pay heavy hiway tax. Ah the story's of the coal healers running the homercity 500 and draging coal out the mines to be cleaned always catch my attention. I'd loved to see all the macks and ford's and autocars with entirely to much loaded on them. Any more they make the bodys to fit a legal load and no more.
Oh look, another Internet Big Shot with an F350. They never come back and post the long term results . . .
If you pull the passenger seat out and put a divider in there you could get at least half a yard maybe more in there. That being said, I have a dump trailer and a single axle dump truck. Each has a purpose and each has pro and cons for a specific project. The DT can haul 10 ton legal while the dump trailer is around 7 ton legal. However by volume the dump trailer hauls more (think trash or trees) and is much easier to load with smaller equipment. To me it's about using the right tool for the job. I can use a monkey wrench for a hammer but why not own a hammer too?
Someone asked a question and I answered. My answer got a whole bunch of panties all twisted up. Long term, I’ll be around. I am not a day to day poster as I have too much going on. But if something goes wrong with my backhoe that is out of my depth I would definitely ’try’ to use this place as a resource. I only posted recently as I had a $ tire choice to make and I wanted to see what the folks here thought. Then I saw this thread and decided to put my .02 in. There was no intention to be “an internet big shot”. If I came across that way to you that’s about you not me. If I live through my ever so dangerous decisions and I bend an axle, shear some lugs, etc. I’ll be sure to come back and tell you guys how right you were.
A tandem dump trailer weighs at least 6k, with 14 in axles your looking around 4.5 ton to load it legally if it's a gooseneck. I did, it wasn't good. Truck and trailer together was 30k
Well my tandem single tire trailer weighs 5693 and with a 22k rating I can haul 16k and change. Thanks for questioning my honesty as I was thinking it had a 7 ton capacity and was short changing myself.
Thread was pretty much about 7k tandems, not what you have. And looks like you can go 8 ton!
Took a dump truck load of metal to the junk yard today and came across my broken spindle on a 7k axle... Very hard to find one of these. Almost cost me $1500 for a new axle. No trailer place would get one, wanted me to buy a whole new axle. I ended up finding it on ebay for $30.00 after about 6 months of looking for a junk axle or this part.
Wow never seen that failure, seen a bunch of other things primarily in the end of the spindle.