We currently have a Ford L8000 that requires a CDL to run. Problem is that it has been sketchy lately hiring/keeping someone with a CDL. I think I want to get a F650/F750 and keep it registered at 26,000 so we can at least always have an option to use this truck with out having a CDL. I am not super familiar with these trucks. It would be nice to spend $20,000 - $30,000 for a used one. I am thinking a F650 since we will be at 26,000 anyway. I also want to have air brakes instead of hydraulic. I know that these came with various engines with the 5.9 Cummins both in 12V and 24V being a pretty common engine. I am looking for opinions on the best year/engine combination.
My $.02 - Owned several medium duty trucks - dumps, one hooklift and a flatbed. 1999 4700 DT466 with 6+1 trans - good truck, comfortable to drive but no power house, had a 14' flatbed dump The 4000 series Internationals cabs are very driver friendly. 2003 4300 DT466 with 6+1 trans - good truck, updated version of the 4700 but less reliable pertaining to the electronics in the cab and the A/C system. It had a 14' flat dump with fixed sides. 2007 Hino 268 with Hino inline 6, Aisin auto with a hooklift. This was by far and away the best medium truck I've owned. Drove from AL to SC to get the hook lift put on. It was powerful and quick, a very nice truck to drive. 2005 F650 6.7 Cummins, Allison auto with a hook lift. The worst of the bunch IMO as far as power, driveability and reliability. That truck had the issue with the fuel tanks delaminating which was a nightmare finding a Ford dealership to work on medium duty trucks under warranty. 1999 4700 DT466, 5sp with flatbed that's our current service truck. Top speed of 55 MPH loaded, unloaded, flat ground or down hill. Reliable but not much on power or speed. Currently the only medium truck we own. I am a Ford guy from 150's to 600's but my loyalty stops at the 650. There are better options in the medium duty range out there than Ford IMHO. The newer Allison trans are good at getting the power out of the smaller medium duty engines and easier to drive. If you are looking at the older Internationals the 6+1 gives you enough gears to get down the road at a reasonable speed. Don't buy a 466 with a 5sp - trust me.
Air brakes require a cdl hence the air brake portion of the cdl test As far as single bob tails for as cheap as I can hire any size dump truck here I cant own one
Have the Feds changed the rule or is that an AZ law? The Feds use to go by GVW for CDL requirements and the air brake test/certification was only if a truck or a truck a trailer combo was over 26K GCVW. Unless the Feds have changed it, here in AL a truck 25.5K GVW not pulling a trailer with or without air brakes didn't require a B. A good many of those Penske and Ryder box trucks in my area are 25.5K GVW with air brakes and anyone with a regular license can drive on.
I might need to look it up but I seen a ticket issued for a lack of air brake endorsement and that was not a cheap fine
CDL is required for air brakes. And it does not matter what weight you register the truck. If the factory rated it at 26,001 or higher, you will need a CDL CLass B. Those rental trucks are spec'ed with hydraulic brakes.
Not correct according to the Feds - https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registrat...#Classes-Licenses-Commercial-Learners-Permits States can be more restrictive with their CDL rules, FL might be more restrictive. Also they spec non-CDL air braked trucks like this one in AL all the time. No CDL required to drive this truck here in AL. 26,000 GVW with air brakes. https://www.penskeusedtrucks.com/tr...medium-duty-box-trucks/unit-686012/particle-1
Looking at the FMCSA link they call out an A, B, C License, but an operators License is not a C license, to drive air brakes under 26001 lbs you need a CDL C at a minimum to have the Air Brake Cert, similar to being a limousine driver getting a class C liscence to attach a passenger endorsement to.
Not according to the Feds or I am reading it wrong - Class C license only refers to 16 passengers or haz mat not falling under the GVW requirements of a Class A or B. Air brake is a restriction - The L restriction for example is for a hot shot F550 pulling an 18K gooseneck trailer with would require a Class per the GCWR of the truck and trailer. If a driver took their CDL test in that set up they would have a L restriction on their CDL license. A 26,000 GVW straight truck with air brakes does not require a CDL per the Feds. Anyone with a valid drivers license can drive this type of truck according to the Federal rules now states can be more restrictive and most are.
That's correct because they had to draw a line in the sand at some point. Plus the vehicle could be either/or on which brakes it was manufactured with.
First I would say even the DOT themselves don't agree on the rules and there interpretation. Second the way the FMSCA manual is not clear, and leaves alot of gray area for us to interpret, Case in point, I have 27 years in the trucking industry, from my impression of both Truck Shop and CM1995 they have more experience than that, and we all do not agree. Setting up equipment for buisness in the gray area is a recipe for confusion, agrivation, and some tickets. And I respectfully disagree, It is illegal to drive air brakes on an operators liscense alone.
Well the industry such as Wabco is looking at air disc option for a 450 class and up. Other wise you would have granny down taking a CDL for her RV. Which she probably should anyway.
Where does it say that in the Federal regs? State laws can be more restrictive and many are which adds to the muddied waters of the CDL rule conversation.
Are you certain about the air brake? a few years back I researched it in VT. I had an air brake truck registered at 25999. The law here contradicts. In one place it requires CDL, in another place there is a specific exemption. In my case there was a trailer involved, CDL required. I had a Chevy C65 titled 25999, nameplate 27500. I needed CDL for the trailer, as mentioned, DOT enforcement don't agree about under 26000 & air brakes. My Chevy was gas engine, I wanted more power. I searched forever. Everything on the market was a town truck. In the northeast, these trucks are rust buckets. I ended up with a fire truck. Converting to a dump proved not to be simple, but I got less rust than a retired town truck. Mine had 31000 on the clock. Miles pile up in these trucks when they sit idling The pump adds miles. 635 hours on the pump. I'll estimate 10,000 miles, the rest pump engaged to keep it from freezing. Small town pumpers spend VERY little time actually pumping, most is in gear so nothing freezes.
I think the regulations are not written well. They reference needing to take an air brake test for class A and B which is over 26000 lbs. So running Air brakes requires a test, and special knowledge to drive them that an operators license doesn't cover. I get what you are saying, as it is written it could be considered a loop hole. You would get a ticket here driving a 25000lbs truck with air brakes on an operators license. You also will get a ticket for a rake in the back of a 1 ton without a strap on it.
Yes & God help you if your license plate light is dirty, you might go to jail.
And I have stated several times-the laws should be the same in every state. The federal regulations are just that and each state having it's own regulations. The laws should be standardized. Anyone driving a half ton pickup should have a CDL. A loose shovel is ok but rakes need system seven chains. lol It's all about revenue for each state. Of anyone should have had their CDL yanked it was me-Three Log Book Mike.
It doesn't matter what weight the truck is registered to haul. What matters is the data plate on the door jam. 26,000#, no CDL. 26,001#, CDL required. And a few years ago, they rewrote the rule to state the heavier of the data plate or actual loaded weight. So if you have a 26,000# data plate and weigh 26,001#, you also have to have a CDL.
It's not a loophole on the federal level, it's how the fed. regulations are written. Might be old and If you can get a ticket for driving an air braked 25,000 GVW straight truck in NH that is a state law which can be more restrictive.
My take would be: Juice brakes suck, air brakes work well. Verify with the state of Pennsylvania DOT before purchasing a truck below 26000lbs with air brakes and putting person with a regular operators license in it.
can see that now
There is no air brake endorsement on a CDL just an air brake restriction which means you can have a CDL and not drive air brakes. As the under 26,000 Lbs. doesn't require a CDL and there is no air brake test for a regular drivers license we be good to go. Bob
Man you guys have screwy laws down there. Up here air ticket is separate, must have to run a truck with air brakes, very cut and dry. Must have class 1 to pull trailer on air, cut and dry. Though it's stupid you could have a single axle truck and trailer only be at 30,000lbs and need a class 1, but you could run 140,000lbs on a class 3 with electric brakes on trailer as there's no weight limit.
Been through 26 DOT check points. Been written up on med card, logbook, extinguisher, lights, had my tanks dipped, questioned about the 3 oil tanks in the bed, but never on air brake with my PA class C license. Mine is a 26k gvw Pete 337 with air brake. Last time across the scales was 25,940#.
Just for fun I will add. I have a PA class B license with L restriction. I also have PA inspection license for class A, B, C, and M. When I moved to PA I dropped my A operators license because of cost (over 20 years ago think it was something like $600) and didn't think I would use it. Well ended up working in a truck garage for a few years and got my inspection license but never bothered to update my operators license. Bin that way for over ten years, I will not say anything if you don't!
Here, you can't run air brakes without a CDL, no matter the GVW. Know more than one person who had to park their rig and write a big check for arguing the FMCSA book.
Must be a Montana law which can be more restrictive than Federal.
Dunno, but I wouldn't touch air brakes without my endorsement - the DOT is tough here in this valley as it's a booming place and there's major $$ to be made for the state's coffers. As I believe the feds are on the way to requiring blanket CDLs for anything 10K and over, no point in procrastinating, get the CDL with endorsements and be over it. Several years ago, they started stopping rodeo people with big trailers, picking on the landscapers with bigger 1T, 2T and 3.5T rigs. They don't seem to bother the utility companies, some of whom, unbelievably, can be seen towing 9T hoes around with a bumper pull trailer on a 3/4T pickup. Physics class in action.
So, for clarity, in Pennsylvania, there is no longer an "air brake endorsement", only air brake restrictions, on driver licensing. The one thing people forget is that you need to be air brake "trained" in order to adjust an out of range brake in front of a DOT officer.
There are no air brake endorsements on a CDL . The point behind a CDL is state to state uniform regulation. So, you are saying out of state CDL are not valid in Montana? Look under who needs a CDL and you will find trucks under 26,000 Lbs. do not need one. Bob
The way I read that you can operate a vehicle under 26k with a class c (non CDL) with air brakes unless you have a CDL with a L restriction! Makes good sense to me.
The thing that amazes is that there is no skills test for doubles/triples and tanker. I don't have either endorsement on my CDL class A but feel I could study and pass the test. I have no experience in either and would not feel safe doing so but I'd be legal.
Thank you Bluox----------Has any one on here ever seen electric brakes on a set of wiggle wagons? No of coarse not If you have a Class A it is automatic on air brake. And yes you have to have a {Brake Inspector Card} in you wallet to perform any brake adjustments or any type of maintenance. If you are interstate trucking you fall under Federal guidelines. Been that way since ICC.
It's perfectly valid, any state is. They're on board with the restriction system, which tells the DOT officer what configuration(s) you're able to drive, as well as interstate/intrastate, etc. But..if you're driving a rig that has a GCVW of over 26K, but a single-vehicle GVW under 26K, there's a gray area there that will depend on how good a day he's having. If he decides to look you over using the GCVW rule, even if you're not towing a 10K +/- trailer GVW, make sure you know your state and FMCSA rules by the letter. And let me know how it goes ...
in other words depending on the {state} and the vehicle rating and flying under the wire plus the fact you {Might-just possibly run into a DOT officer that has his underwear on backwards means you should have all documents proving your a half *** astronaut in total control of your spaceship}.
Don't need that setup for that, and there is plenty of guys around here not far off from 140,000lbs on class 3 setups. Tri-drive tandem steer pickers with triple axle 15,000lbs trailers, truck is good for over 80,000lbs alone. Concrete companies are a huge one, going away from tandem tractors and tridem trailers to tri-drive tandem steer, going from 102,000lbs to 82,500lbs where one needs over 100 hours schooling, the other needs an hour road test to drive. My point is, an air brake trailer being the difference in needing 100+ hours of schooling or not is dumb, it should be based on weight.
Well here's some crazy Canadian laws for ya.
Touche Still take it over the way it is down there. At least there is no grey or beige areas.
Not much grey just people who can't read or comprehend what they read. Bob
Reading the spec, and the spec making any sense in practicality are 2 different issues. Welcome to a loop hole. So as it is written my girlfriend with an operators license can drive a 25k truck with air brakes, however if I take the CDL B test and don't pass the air brake section I cannot. Makes perfect sense.
CDL with L restriction cannot operate CMV (26,001 pounds or more {A combination, B single vehicle}) with air brakes. If I've got an E restriction on my CDL I can't drive anything <26,001 with a manual transmission?
Come on guys just sign the check to the new driver school for what ever you need for endorsements and all will be fine. Plus they say the oil was just changed, she be good to go.
I literally contacted a State Police officer in PA and asked the following questions so I can be exact as possible: We have a dump truck that is registered at 25,999 lbs. We have an older equipment trailer that the rating is unknow. If we hook the trailer to the truck and load a piece of equipment on it and the entire weight of the truck, trailer and equipment is below 26,001 lbs, do you need a CDL? The truck is registered at 25,999 lbs so I know we don’t need a cdl to drive the truck. It does have air brakes. My understanding is that as long as the truck is registered under 26,001 you don’t need a cdl even if it has air brakes, correct? If we purchase another trailer and with a new trailer we can see the rating is over 10,001 lbs, do you need a CDL to pull it with the truck even though the actual weight of the truck , trailer and equipment is still below 26,001 lbs combined. In other words, do you go by the trailer weight rating (if you know it) regardless of what the trailer and the equipment might weigh that is on it. My specific situation may be the truck is registered at 25,999 lbs. It probably only weighs 13,000 lbs. We would then have a trailer that is rated at 14,000 lbs, but the weight of the trailer and equipment may be 12,000 lbs. That would make the total combined weight under 26,000 lbs even though the registered weight ratings for the trailer would push the combined weight of the truck, trailer and equipment over 26,000. The officer's advice was that he pointed me to the padmv website. Needless to say it is confusing and that is why I am trying to find out the exact and correct answers. He also said he was not MCS certified so he does not really deal with it that much.
This may be a novel concept, but you need to talk to the cop that runs the truck enforcement in your area. Bob
How come your advice is changing? Before it was just read and comprehend it and you're fine..... Which is honestly better then talking to an enforcement guy which is not good advice at all unless you know 100000% he knows the laws backwards and forwards which many don't. If he doesn't what are you going to do when pulled over? "Bob told me this was legal" "Oh did he? That's too bad here's your ticket".
Bob don't give legal advice . The poster already shows he can't comprehend what he read and if the cop who writes the ticket don't know the law it won't make any difference till you go to court. But I will give this advice, if you give the cop an attitude you can almost count on a ticket. Bob
In my experience, air brakes stop you quickly, but are prone to many failures. They are very prone to leaks, rust attacks wheel equipment & air tanks, compressor issues are a constant problem, & frozen condensation is disabling. Only saving grace is they lock up when they fail. I believe locking up sometimes places people in dangerous places. I wish they would drag a bit, but allow a driver to limp to a safer location. I've had many more hydraulic brake vehicles, & I'd rather have hydraulic brakes.
Why cant they just write the laws were it can be understood ? It could be done but the book would need alot of pictures.
For the amount of miles a air brake system will run trouble free compared to Hydraulic doesn't even come close. And they don't just lock up but will provide a strong stop.
I attended a conference some years ago where the officer making a presentation on bridge formula stated they would be happy to inspect your truck and trailer at the weigh station and explain to you in writing how your truck doesn't meet the requirements of the formula. I'm positive the offer works in all states at all state weigh stations or points of entry for all kinds of issues. Maybe someone who has received one of those written statements of violation could take a photo of it and post it as proof of the regulation.
This isn't too bad.
Oregon, Washington and Idaho no longer do inspection requests. On spot only. Most problems come in play on bridge formula because trailer has wrong king pin setting in relation to trailer axle distance from pin with axles slid all the way back and tractor wheel base fully loaded.
Any mention of anything other then air brakes here is blasphemy....... Even pickups should have air brakes, they are way better. The spring brakes don't lock up for crap, nothing like an actual brake application. They have their upsides for sure, but they also have plenty of downsides.
If you're such an expert and the laws are so easy to understand and so many others have questions about it in this thread why don't you do them a favor and tell them what the requirements are for their situation?
It takes 60 psi minimum to fully release a 3030 park brake air chamber. 60 psi on application is full braking. The test for park brakes is fully loaded to GVW on a 20% incline setting the park brake and cannot roll back anymore than 24". Average roll back is less than 3" brand new.
Attached (I could not attach, perhaps I don't have enough posts. Below is the link to the document) the PA DMV CDL Fact Sheet that the PA DOT always refer you to if you ask questions. If you look at it, this is how I interpret the answers to my questions: 1. We have a dump truck that is registered at 25,999 lbs. We have an older equipment trailer that the rating is unknow. If we hook the trailer to the truck and load a piece of equipment on it and the entire weight of the truck, trailer and equipment is below 26,001 lbs, do you need a CDL? According to a) in the attachment "gross vehicle rating", key word being "rating". I take that to mean it doesn't matter what you have actually loaded on it, it would go by what it is "rated" for. In this situation, our trailer is older and no longer has any identification rating tag on it. My guess is that we would get a fine or warning for not having a tag on the trailer. But how would I get that now. The trailer could be twenty years old. So then I would guess they could weigh me. The truck would be under 26,001 and the trailer and load would weigh less than 10,000. So I think we would be fine without CDL. 2. The truck is registered at 25,999 lbs so I know we don’t need a cdl to drive the truck. It does have air brakes. My understanding is that as long as the truck is registered under 26,001 you don’t need a cdl even if it has air brakes, correct? We do not need a CDL because the truck is under 26,001 and no where in the document does it say that just because it has air brakes you need a CDL. 3. If we purchase another trailer and with a new trailer we can see the rating is over 10,001 lbs, do you need a CDL to pull it with the truck even though the actual weight of the truck , trailer and equipment is still below 26,001 lbs combined. In other words, do you go by the trailer weight rating (if you know it) regardless of what the trailer and the equipment might weigh that is on it. I would think that like above, the word "rating" is used. So even though the actual trailer and load is under 10,000, if the trailer has a rating of over 10,000 we would need a CDL. My specific situation may be the truck is registered at 25,999 lbs. It probably only weighs 13,000 lbs. We would then have a trailer that is rated at 14,000 lbs, but the weight of the trailer and equipment may be 12,000 lbs. That would make the total combined weight under 26,000 lbs even though the registered weight ratings for the trailer would push the combined weight of the truck, trailer and equipment over 26,000. This is pretty much what question 3 is above and I think they will go by the ratings and not the actual weight. https://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/dvspubsforms/BDL/BDL Fact Sheets/fs-cdl.pdf
https://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/dvspubsforms/BDL/BDL Fact Sheets/fs-cdl.pdf
Anyone who drives a commercial motor vehicle. The definition of a commercial motor vehicle is: a) a combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds; b) a single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds; c) a vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; d) a school bus; or e) any vehicle that is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with State and Federal regulations. That is from your link. If your truck gvwr is 25999lbs and your trailer gvwr is more then 2 lbs then you need a cdl.
In other words you need the most you can get unless you like drama. I dont like DOT drama also i am going to try and avoid getting married agin.
Don, That would seem so, but if you read a), the combination has to be over 26,000 AND the trailer needs to be over 10,000 lbs. My situation is that the truck is rated at 25,999 and the trailer rating is unknown. If I do pull a trailer with an unknown rating I will make sure that the truck, trailer, and load does not exceed 26,000 combined.
I can also get a trailer registered at 10,000 lbs. Most of the time we will just be moving a skid steer or a mini excavator and when we do that I could or very nearly keep the trailer and load at or under 10,000.
Just stop pussyfooting around the situation and go get a cdl. Then there is no worry about having a extra bucket or two.
Not correct. The 25,999 GVW truck can pull a trailer up to 10,000 lbs without a CDL. Refer to section a) above.
Don, Yes our goal is to have a full time CDL person. I will not actually be the one that really uses the truck and equipment. I just want to be absolutely sure that if I have one of our employees who does not have a CDL use the truck that we are not putting them in a position where they will get a fine. It just has been tough finding the right fit for someone that has a CDL. In the meantime I do need to have access to some kind of dump truck that can move our smaller equipment and get a couple of tons of stone or screenings when needed. We also have an L8000 that is just sitting there, so we are anxious to find the right person with a CDL.
The real world-is when you run into a weigh master that can't understand the rules and is looking for a promotion. A Friday night headed to Vancouver BC. coming up on the Bow Hill scales which is on the south bound side if I-5. He pulls out of the median and blue lights 4 rigs headed north including me, he takes the Bow Hill ramp. We all take the ramp, he instructs us to drive south through the Bow Hill Port if Entry Scales which is totally legal and have our log books out the window as we cross the scales. So we all get parked out back one went in the inspection shed. I get inside and finally called to the counter. He asked what rule I ran {I replied the 70 hr rule}. His reply {You have 65 3/4 hrs on your log----I'm writing you for being over on the 60 hr rule.-- You are joking aren't you? Officer Fart Sack replied (Do I look or sound like it}. I took a day off and drove to Mt Vernon court. Explained what took place--Her reply { Well the officer wouldn't have written a ticket if you weren't guilty. It's a situation in some cases that the person your dealing with shouldn't be in that job. So my advise just go get a driver with a class A CDL, keep a file on him with drug tests. And life will be good.
Apples and oranges. Holding a stopped truck from rolling and stopping a truck going even 40 mph is like comparing stopping a car to a tractor trailer, it's not even in the same realm of what it takes to do so. Just as a 60 PSI brake application is in no way the same as the spring brakes. Try pulling the spring brakes at even 20 mph on that 20% grade and see how many rigs come to a complete stop.
Suladas I quoted facts, what you are saying is a opinion-opinions are not facts. Have you been trained in air brake operation and do you have a brake inspector card, Are you a journeyman mechanic with 48 years experience. I would gamble to say the answer is no.
Everyone is welcome to their own opinion but I would never go beyond what is legal to avoid getting a ticket from a DOT who has no idea what they are doing, unless it was something very simple. If i'm legal and it's something that might be in question I would have the printed pages of the law in the truck in the event you're stopped and questioned on it. There is a very small chance of getting a ticket still, but look at the bright side if they ticket for improper license and you were legal, if you got any other tickets they will be thrown out too.
Yes you did state facts, but you did it in a way of I believe trying to say spring brakes are as capable of stopping a rig as a 60 PSI brake application which is wrong. Physics is not an opinion, it is fact. Come on now, look at the books on tractor trailer driving that compare how much harder it is to stop a load every time you increase the speed, holding a stopped rig takes nothing compared to what it does with any amount of speed. Are you going to try and tell me a spring brake application is equal to a 60 PSI brake application? If so i'm more then willing to line up 2 rigs and put my money where my mouth is and see which one stops quicker. You bet I am qualified to inspect air brakes.
Suladas You read it wrong-as usual. But as usual any online conversation with you is worthless. You have zip to back it up. You see I don't work as a contractor, I don't move dirt, I don't lay pipe, I don't work as a electrician---and try to be a mechanic also. I only work on trucks, That's my Job only job. And post a photo of your brake certificate, you should have one. Digger you my as well put a lock on this thread.
I remember the Bow Hill scales well. Those are the guys that let an over height truck through without even noticing and it hit the bridge in Mt Vernon and knocked a big section out and collapsed the bridge. It was all on camera. As I recall the truck and driver were from Canada.
If I understand VT law, ( I believe Federal laws are used as guidelines, but adopted as state law with, or without amendments. Here, any vehicle at, or over 26000 needs a CDL. Any vehicle towing a trailer over 10,000 needs a CDL, elsewhere in the law, there is an exemption for total weight under 26000. CDL vehicles drivers must pass air brake test. Truck Shop can confirm, few CDL drivers understand air brake systems to the extent they could contribute any help in a malfunction. You need your air brakes fixed, you need a skilled mechanic. You hope they will work next week, you need a skilled mechanic.
I've got a 25,500 with air brakes. Just here eating popcorn and betting on how many posts it goes before it's ban hammer and lock time
No this thread doesn't need to be closed at the moment. I think everyone here can civilly discuss the issue and even disagree sometimes. 25,500 with air brakes is a common truck with 100's of thousands on the roads. That type of truck setup is right at the border of the CDL and a lot of contractors depend on them to make a living. This topic is very important in my opinion so let's play nice guys..
Firstly, I second what CM said above. Play nice. And my understanding of the law is this--if the power unit is under 26,000, the trailer can be over 10,000 and you still don't need a CDL. Note the bolded section below. "CLASS A - combination vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. CLASS B - single vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds." So, you need a class A to pull a 10,001 pound trailer with a 26,001 pound truck, but you don't need a CDL at all to pull a 12,000 pound trailer with a 25,999 pound truck. On edit: And a class B to even pull an air compressor with a 26,001 pound truck.
Slight correction Digger - A 25,999 truck pulling a 12K trailer puts the GCVWR of the two over 26,000 and require a class A CDL. Companies get busted here all the time with a 13,500 GVW dually pulling the standard 14,000 lb skid steer trailer - 27,500 GCVWR and requires a Class A regardless of braking system. The 10,000 trailer is the cut off weight for a Class B. Now if you pull a 14,000 lb trailer with a 11,500 GVW single rear wheel F350 like I drive then the GCVWR is 25,500 and no CDL. Clear as mud right?
No it can't refer to the word" rated" and "combination." You can pull a trailer up to 10,000 lbs. with your pickup as long as its not rated over 16'000 lbs. The DOT around here have been having a tickathon with pickups and goose neck trailers. Bob
Let's just talk about who needs a DOT medical card instead.
Ohh gawd don't get me started...
Great, now I've got to go to the store and get more popcorn.
Yes, I believe here any truck 26,000 or more must be driven by a class A CDL. I have a friend with no limitation on his weight, but no trailer endorsement. He works for a paving company, says he'd spend his weekends moving equipment in preparation for Mondays if he was licensed for trailers, pintle or fifth wheel. Here, law says any trailer GVWR over 10,000 requires class A CDL plus a trailer endorsement. Pages later, there is an exemption if total combined GVWR is under 26000. You can tow an 11000 rated trailer with a 14900 GVWR rated pickup without CDL of any sort. As I read law, you only need CDL for air brakes over 26000 rated load. An empty truck rated for 26001 still needs CDL. My son just tested for CDL with 28000 rated truck & 10000 rated trailer. They turned us away, wouldn't let him test, said the trailer had to be rated "over 10000" "10000 is NOT over 10000." Six weeks later was the first appointment available, we went back with the identical sized triaxle rated 23000 LBS. As my truck has an Allison, he earned an automatic transmission restriction. Borrowed an old Ford tandem dump truck with a particularly cantankerous manual transmission & retested to get the automatic restriction removed.
I learned long time ago, best not try and skirt the law when it comes to getting a CDL or not to get a CDL. Just get the damn thing and take it as another piece of paper for just in case you want to expand in your business or if things go sideways they are always hiring people with driving experience and a loaded CDL. Learn a few things too along the way too hopefully, though not all do. Unlike Crummy there I don't need to go to the store for popcorn, I just need to sort through my pantry for another bottle of bourbon instead
leave the air wick in there
Of course, there are exemptions for volunteer firemen, farmers, motor home drivers & rented truck drivers. I see people unqualified to push a shopping cart driving Budget rental trucks. I followed a Budget rental truck too many miles at around 6:30 one snowy night. He wandered into the breakdown lane a dozen times at 15 miles under speed limit. I thought he was trying to let me pass. Then going down a long mountain road two lanes uphill, one downhill, he wandered into the middle uphill lane, while a dozen or more uphill drivers had to make extreme avoidance maneuvers to avoid a head on. He finally pulled off the road into an empty parking lot. I'll never know what was wrong. Drunk, stoned, 6 year old child driving, 95 year old driver?
CM1995 back on page 1 you were correct and I was wrong, It took me a few days to work the correct channels. I contacted the regional office for FMSCA in Maryland, and after a few days I got a response, and the representative was willing to send it to me in writing which follows: Per our conversation, regarding the two scenarios discussed: Scenario #1: driver holds a CDL-B with an L restriction (air-brakes). He’s operating a 25,000 lb. GVWR truck with air brakes. Scenario #2: a different individual operates the same vehicle (25,000 with air brakes). However, this individual possesses only an Operator’s license. Neither of these drivers would be in violation because they are not operating vehicles requiring a CDL. The air brake restriction only comes into play when the vehicle being operated requires a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). I hope this information is helpful
Yeah, but..... c'mon, I've got all this popcorn now.