An new guy rolled into town a couple years ago and knows it all. He is a know it all, I have not drove a dumper for 5 years so I may be out of touch a bit But he was saying that all dump trucks have live PTO's on them for box functions. I said Mixer, Garbage wagons, and snow plow sander trucks there may be a few others. Also any guess as to how much cost is there to a live PTO as to what I drove Clutch pedal engage pump etc. Thanks Hank
Well, if it's a closed center pump like most newer ones are, the pumps alone are close to $3000. The term "live PTO" is a bit misleading, should be referred to as "live hydraulics". The pump drives off the front of the crank in most cases. I'd say cost to equip would probably be close to double of a traditional PTO style. HOWEVER, there are engage on the fly PTOs available. Pretty slick, I'm not sure about the durability.
I've never seen a dump truck with live hydraulics. No reason to be pumping oil while driving like a mixer truck. There's the hot shift PTO which would be pretty neat for spreading crushed rock on a mainline without stopping.
Most plow trucks have live hydraulics. Anymore they are closed center, piston pumps. Low pressure standby. Drove a 2500 IH dump for 10 years hauling gravel. Ex-county plow truck. Live hydraulics was awesome for spreading gravel.
Finally learned something new today, just before bedtime!
You and me both! .....But I try to avoid trucks like they have the Black Plague anyway lol
State trucks have live ptos only dump trucks I've seen with it
We recently acquired a 1989 2574 IH dump truck; the hydraulic pump is belt driven off a Cummins L10. It’s an ex-plow/sanding truck. Controls for plows and sander remain in cab but the only function now is for the hoist.
I thought is was a big no-no to have the hydraulics live for the dump bed all the time? I was taught to Always disengage the PTO when leaving the site. All too easy for something to inadvertently bump the lever just a little, bed goes up while going down the road, hits an overpass, wires, etc.
Well, I guess dump trucks need warning labels then lol. I had the lever for the box between the seats. It was basically a hydraulic lever just like any old tractor. I never raised the bed accidentally, never left it up when I should have had it down. Did tear a set of 220 wires down for a guy trying to spread in his front yard, but that was it. The truck I drove had an L10, had a drive shaft from the crank to the pump. No disengaging that lol.
that would be extra handy! The other really nice thing is when it is bitter cold, if you just engage the PTO and raise the box and give it any throttle on the cold oil, it is not good for the pump. That setup would warm itself up as you run down the road.
Yeah live hydraulics---Shop years back in Ellensburg had some construction done. A real nice skylight light added only took less than a minute.
I was a bit surprised when I saw the setup, once air pressure is built the lever for the hoist is live. It is a plunger style (must lift plunger to move lever). Photo of pump:
Could you get a pick of the crank? I might set up a pump like that in the future
Sure, I’ll try and get a couple of better pictures today, including crank pic.
Front mount crank-driven pumps on engines with serpentine fan/accessory belts are ok. The old engines with V belts were a pita on account of always having to change belts more often. On plow trucks for cold weather operations i plumbed in a tube/shell type heat exchanger on top of the hyd tank in the return line to prevent icing in the control valves which were mounted inside the hyd tank. These were old open centre systems so continuously warming the oil cured the icing problems at -10c and colder.
Good info, thanks! Kind of wondered about durability on those V belts….we have a V belt driven air compressor on our Ford CF7000; definitely a weak link, spares kept under seat…
Some photos:
I have a ex county 5 yrd truck, pump runs off front shaft of the motor, feeds my box hydros, sander/plow ports, & my steering
That happened in our shop. The driver put the box up, left the pto in, and shut the truck off. Next morning started the truck up, and went to open the door. As soon as the air pressure built up.... crunch
A few years back when I bought a fire truck & converted it to a dump truck, I got a lesson in hydraulics. I looked at a number of medium duty trucks with dump bodies. Most I saw were belt driven hydraulic pumps. I'll guess that means live? Those mostly had electric clutches so they weren't using engine power when not in use. Due to geometry, I wasn't able to fit mine with this sort of pump. I ended up with a cable controlled transmission PTO, I'll guess is not live. For me the PTO & Pump (married) were about $1300.
Regarding the pictures of the belt-driven pump: I refuse to use those ‘top cog’ belts on anything. Years ago doing regular maintenance on a small fleet, i found they were too hard on the pulleys. With the cogs around the outside, you lose a percentage of contact area where it matters most- the sides. Then they will slip easier under heavy load. I got rid of them and went back to conventional V belts and had less problems. And, any belt is only as good as the worst pulley in the system. Just my opinion
Never thought of that, but sure makes sense the way you described it. Will definitely go that route. Same setup on the air compressor on our Ford cab over, pretty critical component relying on those same cogged belts…they are prone to breakage. Will swap out to regular v belts. Appreciate the voice of experience, thanks!
If pulley is worn out yeah belts will be low in pully. Belts running the air compressor on a truck----well that's always been a bad idea!
We used to use old New York DOT wing trucks to plow a huge mall. One my guy goes by with the dump all the way up. Had to chase him to get it down. The front plow lever was right next to the dump lever. Disconnected all the dump levers after that.
The farm store near home, I was one of the urchins. I did dirty work for the owner cheap, then I didn't hesitate to borrow equipment. It usually involved me doing a major service on the machine in question. They were an International Harvester dealer. They had a 1960? IH truck with tilt bed & a long hydraulic cylinder under the bed for a sort of winch to load. Through pulley, a 9 foot stroke developed 18' of cable travel. One Sunday, 30 miles from home, the PTO wasn't a sure thing whether it was in or out, hydraulic valve leaked past a bit. I looked in the mirror to see the underside of the bed. On the bed was a 1936 Dodge pickup. Thank God I hadn't been careless chaining it down! In the case of more modern trucks I believe an electric clutch on the hydraulic pump disengages it.
How can you not know? Never look behind you or in mirrors?
He wasn't a very good driver.
I heard a story of Town of Danby hired a new driver years ago when they still had tailgate sanders. Pushed the dump body all the way up & the truck landed on the tailgate, front wheels in the sky.
Gotta give credit to the welders!!!
That had to be one hell of a ride.
Driver likely got his spine compressed, he's an inch shorter now.
There has been a least 5 of those hitting overpasses in B.C. Lower mainland in past 6 weeks, In 1 the driver ran away after hitting an overpass, the RCMP are still looking for him. Latest one , a specialized hauling company hauling a Helicopter hit an Overpass on Highway 1, destroying the rotor head. Driver said he had an over height permit . The East Indian Trucking Association in BC wants the Taxpayer to have courses to teach the driver basically how to read a tape measure *** ! . The trucking industry in the lower mainland is out of control, they control the Driving Schools, the roads etc. I used to like driving, not anymore, Dump truck drivers are nuts, Courtesy & Respect have gone out the window, rant over
A couple of months ago there was an overpass strike in West Kelowna, the pictures showed a Hitachi 12t with the stick/boom not folded in/lowered properly! (Clearly well above the height of the cab)
There was one trucking company who was responsible for hitting overpasses 5 times over the pass 2 years I believe, and they finally got there NSC here in BC pulled, anyways they are still operating there trucks here in BC that are registered through there Alberta company. Absolutely ridiculous that these guys are being aloud to drive, let alone commercial vehicles!
The Bc goverment now is setting bigger fines ,wants warning devices on raised dump boxes and every new driver has to take extremely expensive driver training just to enter the industry.The fines are a fart in the wind compared to the damage caused on overhead structures, warning devices soon become ignored by the mind set that never looks in the mirror and the expensive driver training fails to teach the art of reading a measuring tape or even completing the due diligence of checking your load while tying down.
Good for you BCCAT. Rant the hell out of it, good to see others ranting about bedwetting truck drivers.
Think we should leave the yard with this one ? Sadly we have many in this province now that wouldnt think twice about it.
^ Looking at that picture, the Pearson guys must be doing something right. They have some really ugly looking ship chunks but I have never heard of any drama.
That was us a couple of years ago just shuttling chunks from the work area to the laydown for shearing. Just a spoof on a few of todays truckers that leave the yard with anything no matter how wide or high without checking it.
In BC you can use a translator to go with you to the driving test. I don’t know how you can have a commercial license if you can’t read the language. Possibly you don’t need to read a weighbill if you haul dirt or gravel but you certainly do to read the overpass heights. The problem is the same license applies to all trucking, not just dirt haulers. Dirt today, machines tomorrow and oversized next week.
Nearest city Rutland is where Cassella the biggest trash hauler & excavation company over a big area in VT & other states. Many of their drivers are not functionally literate. I've seen several enter the testing facility with people who can read & talk prospective drivers through it. Cassella has a big turnover in drivers, so they have to train CDL drivers after they hire them.