Hey guys I’ve been looking to get a dump truck as we have some work for one First is a 98 international paystar 5000 triple axle with a 16’ aluminum box and walking beam suspension It has the dt 530 engine with a 10 speed The truck looks really clean but has almost 800,000 miles on it. Second one is a 96 kw T800 triple axle with a 17’6” steel box and is air ride this one’s got a Cummins n14 with a 9 speed Its in nice shape as well for its age and also has around 800,000 miles. Both trucks have had some minor work done but no paperwork for anything major which makes me a bit nervous on them There both priced the same just shy of 30 grand Any insight would be great Thanks
The n 14 is a way better motor in my opinion that said 530 are not bad what's the overall shape of the truck that's what will determine tour purchase
N14
I was thinking KW till I read the air ride part,
Where is this truck going to be used? If you haven't experienced the difference between a walking beam and a air ride suspension you won't believe the stories. Air ride is vastly superior on the road, walking beam vastly superior off road.
Terex herder has the question of the day here. Your intended use is going to dictate what you need for a truck. A site truck is totally different than a delivery or asphalt truck. Personally, I wouldn't want a aluminum bed, but the guys here haul a lot of shot rock and stacking rocks, and that tears up a aluminum bed.
I really don't see why everyone craps on air ride. I haven't seen a dump truck or logging truck built in the last 20 years that wasn't air ride.
No opinion either way as I hate trucks lol
Try working on a car,mini van or suv.
The trucks gonna haul gravel,rock, dirt and some demo every once in awhile. I was leaning towards the kw cause on the engine but the international seems way cleaner
I don't think you will want to haul much big rock, or demo material in an aluminum bed truck. Jeff
I'd say the KW has a lot more going for it. Don't be afraid of the air ride, just have respect for it when the box is up. The longer steel box will swallow a lot more debris. I noticed a big difference between a 15 and 16 foot box, even though the 15 footer had higher sides. Does it have a high lift tailgate? The T800s I've driven rode pretty good on the front but had walking beams. I imagine it would ride like a Cadillac with air ride under the back.
Make certain has a suspension Dump System on it where can be On the Snubbers when go to spread material or try to dislodge sticky.
The tailgate is the same height as the box sides
I own a 1990 International 4900 with DT466, and a 2007 Kenworth T800 with Cat engine, steel box, drop down axle, and walking beam suspension. I will say the Kenworth is a real dump truck for sure. But it's really too big for just residential work. It also cost a fortune to maintain and operate. The yearly registration is a lot, and we have it only licensed to 70,000lbs. Insurance is a lot. We pay heavy Hwy tax even though we don't go interstate or on highways. Parts are super expensive. Great if you can do most of the repairs like many of the guys on this web site. You need to be an expert at fixing air leaks, hydraulic leaks, and suspension. You need a CDL and medical. You need good employee's with CDL in good standing and in good health and who may also be able to other things for your Company. Was the Kenworth a tractor? What are the axle ratings? Does it have a steerable drop down axle? Pintle hitch in the rear with air?
We’ll do most work ourselves on the truck. I’d assume the kw was a semi made into a dump. It has a 12,000 front axle and 43,500 rears with the pusher It is steerable and has a Pintle with hook ups on the rear
A high lift gate isn't about the height of the gate. A high lift has long arms on top with the top hinge about 3 ft foreward.
I’d have to relook at them. I didn’t pay attention to that Thanks
25,000 lb steer axle, 25,000 lb drop axle, 55,000 lb rears on HaulMaxx, twin steering boxes, 625 hp at 2050 torque, rtlo22313 speed, 1/2" frame rails, with full entertainment center and a Keurig coffee maker. 20' box with super high lift. A permanent thread should be started for the twice a month dump truck questions. With a list of preferred power, transmissions, suspensions, type of box and cost range.
My brothers 2020 Western Star dump is spring suspension. However it was speced like whoever did it was smoking something, so it's not saying a lot. I have no issues with air ride though, the advantages far outweigh the bad.
The number one complaint everyone seems to mention is stability. Get it spec'd with dual levelling valves and that more or less becomes a non-issue.
I think it's the old school kw 8 bag system that really gives it a bad name.
I keep telling my self no more but this is a good family friends van. Its a nightmare the worst part is never working on one like it before. The head bolts were very tight i rounded 3 off and broke 2 sockets . I thought i would have to drill the heads off but i drove a sae socket on them and got them out. I had to do a bunch of extra work because i broke a timing chain guide . Alot of stuff just has RTV so its glued together every thing needs pryed apart and you cant see the bolts so as your prying you wonder if you have them all out. This is the last job i will do like this.
How long has that oil cooler been in there, good thing to change before it leaks.
You know what we call that Old Doug? Gluten for punishment!!!!
There is alot of stuff on this engine that maybe should be replaced but were do you start and stop? I hope i have learned something . The owner i worked for him years ago and was maybe my Dads best friend . I got in 3 good hours yesterday and i was going to work more on it but my brother had a guy that wants to buy some stuff so i stopped and showed him around. I hope to put the oil pan on tonight so the RTV can set up then i will be close to having it back together. Several things has made this no fun . My shop takes along time to heat up so when it was realy cold i couldnt just run out and work a hour here and their,i have alot of other stuff happening so i had to work on it when ever i could. Something that realy got to me was i have lost alot of my nerve to tear into the unknown.
At 800k on a dump truck it has had all kinds of major work done, otherwise it would have been out in the weeds a long time ago. Semi's are light trucks. What kind of frame does it have? Hauling a dump is a rough life . . .
If it has a factory 20k front it should be fine if it used to be a semi
Interesting how specs vary from region to region. You won't find a new dump truck on the lot here with air suspension. Same goes for roll offs, garbage trucks, mixers, etc.
That is interesting. I see the odd tandem class 7 Freightliner or Western Star straight dump with the spring over walking beam but I'd say the vast majority are on air. I've even seen a garbage truck on Neway air ride recently. That was about the only application where I've regularly seen walking beams. Even rolloffs are gradually going to air ride from what I've noticed.
On dump, water trucks, or trucks with varying loads I do prefer a quality air suspension as it makes it a nice ride unloaded. You do need a better driver that doesn't sway around, and more importantly in my service, a driver that won't get stuck in the mud as the air suspensions are very quick to spin a tire. I don't recommend any truck to have the kw il8 bad suspension.
I really haven't been on a dealer lot, but all the newer dumps I see around me in the bigger outfits that buy new ones regularly are on air. I don't think I have seen a single newer dump around here on a walking beam at all, at least not since maybe mid 2000's. All the older trucks are Hendrickson, maybe a few on air.
One of the big reasons air suspension is used-most of it is the truck manufactures spec-ed suspension. They don't want to sell other brands they want to sell their design. It does cost more to spec with other than OEM. A dump with a spec of Hendrickson late vocational suspension is the way to go. #1 Hendrickson Haulmax #2 Hendrickson Haulmax EX #3 Hendrickson Primax----------All three are very good Chalmers also makes good Vocational suspension. #1 800-46K #2 800-50K-----right on up to 80 to 100K suspension. As far as frames-a standard spec rail for a truck with a drop by Freightliner is 7/16 wall grade of 90,000 psi. One of the worst for any off road is PacCar AG400L and Freightliner-Air Liner suspensions.
Fact is most of us who don't run them at least 2000 hours a year are buying based on price. A few of us consider more than just purchase price. Cost of ownership is often more than purchase. 99% of offered used trucks meeting my specifications were retired New England Town trucks. I've looked at maybe 100 of them all were more rusty than the Titanic! After years of searching for a truck I drive 1000 miles a year, I chose a fire truck & put my dump body on it. I got the specifications EOne chose. Cat 3208 engine would NOT be first choice. Allison transmission would NOT be my first choice. I paid nothing for the truck, but have spent heavily since.
Seems like air ride is about the only way to build a tridrive like most outfits run in these parts though. The only non-air suspension I could see working with 3 drive axles is a modified version of the 4 spring Reyco.
That's what Hendrickson Primaax EX is, a air ride copy of Neway for vocational trucks. It's been done with Reyco 4 Spring.
A good mule and wagon should work.
Used to drive a Ford dump truck with 3208 around 200 HP and a 5x4, and the front axle brakes were not hooked up. Was fun loaded to 60k.
Worked on enough converted road tractor dump trucks to NOT appreciate Tractor Style suspensions, Hard to access, continual necessity for repairs as were not designed for the severity of dump truck side loading. Defined Vocational Suspensions take that into consideration where the stresses are transferred into thrust links into the frame, axles/tires take a beating but the suspension wear and tear reduces. Tractor suspensions are also not idyllic for lifting a bed slightly off angle as transfer weight all too readily and tend to Lean easier, is a roll over concern.
You know I posted that before on another thread--the dump truck police on here will be on that like a bad smell. I laugh at these threads--First off A DUMP TRUCK IS NOT CAR-it shouldn't ride like a car because it's a frigging dump truck used for short distance, It's made to operate in adverse conditions. Hendrickson RT suspension is built to withstand extreme articulation involved with job site conditions. If a driver is complaining about how rough it rides on site--then use the excavation equipment to build him a road inside the site. Want a truck to haul rock, dirt, sand and logs but expect it to ride like a Lexus. Foolishness.
Lol build a smooth road, how long and how many days you want them to do that?
Constantly, keep it dressed for the whiner in the truck. The equipment is there use it. Operator can eat lunch while he's grading. Keeps everyone busy.
Hollis was road commissioner, & one of two road employees in Tinmouth VT. I asked him once why his 50 miles of gravel roads are so smooth. His answer: "I can fill every pothole in town before lunch. I like to grade in early summer just after mud season. 20 million dollars of vehicles pack the road, I'd be stupid to waste their help. I fill potholes". I'll take it further; Everyone likes to drive in the middle of a gravel road. They return the same path. If we could persuade the drivers to stay on the right, the road would get half the wear.
I bought a new Western Star Dump truck with a Tuff Trac spring suspension in 2021. I like it, I like it for getting in ruff areas that are uneven. I also spread gravel on hilly and curvy cabin roads, Would not want air susp for that. Had a couple of logging trucks with air susp, some off road, but mostly highway, liked air for that though. FWD
Never drove a truck with Tuff Trac but it looks like a nice suspension for a vocational truck that needs articulation and stiffness off-road. Our old L9000 has the tried and true Hendrickson suspension that works great off-road, rides like a almost 30 year old dump truck down the road.
I've had several LT 9000's and even T-850's with Hendrickson Spring walking beam suspensions. Ihad a LT 8000 with the Hendrickson puck walking beam suspension, that's one I didn't care for. The 850's were late 60's trucks. FWD
There is the Hendrickson AR2 also. Best of both worlds.
Nothing to see here just one with airliner napping
There are some talented drivers that could flip a Mack on camelbacks in the Wal Mart parking lot ....
I've been told Hendrickson or maybe it was a dealer won't sell you one if they know you're putting it on a dump truck or log truck. Have a friend that looked into it for a log truck. Talked to another log trucker who put it on a neat narrow nose KW and said it was great with 40' logs but shortened up for 32s or shorter it would get to swaying on the freeway and he'd have to pull over to stop it.
Every dump truck that we have sold/ worked on has been a tandem or tridem with Air-Trac suspension. The only walking beam dump truck we have sold in the last 20 years went right to a mine and got 50ton loaded on it. Standard procedure is the PTO gets plumbed to the dump valve for the air ride.
Odd I know of two with AR2, without any issues.
I got it running the next week then it had a coil pack go out . They changed it at the place i did work at.I havent billed him and i would like to keep it that way. I worked for him when i was in school and he has given me several tons of scrap iron over the years.
Also forgot how many times you want them to fix a county road, like 8 miles of county road!
I've ran dump truck on and off road for over 30 years. Last several years I have ran air ride tri-axles with S.P.I.F. steer axle and 21 foot dump boxes. No issues at all with air. Other than off road you need to develop a technique of using your dump valve to let SOME air out of suspension as you drive if you start losing traction as the wheels won't follow the ground as good as walking beams or spring suspensions. So sometimes you just need to soften the bags a bit as you go. Air ride is easier on the truck and the roads. They don't washboard the roads like spring and beams. They walk through sand much better without hopping. And as far as stability......I dump the air when I do a dump so the bags aren't always topping out, but when spreading gravel where the load comes out slow I usually don't even bother unless I'm on a good side angle. With the air dumped you can sometimes lose traction if the ground is not level. And I HATE that setup where the air dumps when you engage the PTO. I would NEVER want that. When dumping into an asphalt spreader I get better cleanout when I leave air in to get that extra height in the bin. Plus no worries of skidding a tire while riding the brakes when being pushed by the spreader.
Dump truck police.
This one is not air ride. LOL
Sigh. The dream truck in my fantasy world where there are no weight limits or pesky DOT cops. And unlimited funds.
The reason for DOT is the public can't police themselves.
I can leave anybody I want out of my fantasy world . . .
I only go about 7k over weight, no more
You missed the fantasy DOT cop in your fantasy world.
No worries, I am pals with all the cops there
Then you must be acquainted with DOT officer--Jigsaw.