Parked near Colusa, Ca. Enjoy.
Nice pic! DW-21s are not something you see every day.
Yes mag6000 I agree with Buckethead, it isn't every day you get to see one of these old darlings in such good nick. Wish it was parked in my back yard. Cheers Gordon
For sale? This pix looks like this dw21 is still being used! Is it for sale? Quite a find, for sure!
very nice find
mag6000; great shot of that dw-21, the last time i think i saw one was in the mid 50's a contractor named durkin was cutting streets about a mile from my house, all this kind of stuff is locked in my head, i wish i could go back to those days. thanks for sharing man i love old photos of old iron. ts-24frank
Dw21 I was lucky to have been able run a DW21 setup as a water wagon in late 60's. It was a bear to shift gears, but it was also fun. It was used as back up for our Cat 660 water wagons.
dw21 some photos sorry about the black and white but thats the way it was
All of them look like the late 86E version. Nice pictures. Phil
Found more pictures......looks like a McCoy special D8 2U pushing. Phil
dw-21& 660 malcolm & phil; great shots of history,photos means they are never forgotten. the last 2 are 660 & dw-21, right do you know if the 660 still runs. when ever i see monsters like that parked in a barn my mind starts to wander as to what i would love to do, restor one of those GRAND OLD LADIES to there original look, love old iron, thanks for sharing. ts-24frank
Frank, I think that 3 axle in Phil's pics is a DW20....the only other Cat 3 axle with a cable bowl would have been a 630A. I don't think a 660 would fit in the barn! 3 D9's pushing a DW21..I sure hope the bowl lift cable never broke! Cool pics, thanks for sharing. Alan
Dw20-- 21 a few more old pics
20 21 pics some more
Great pics Malcolm! Where is the first shot taken and when. They seem to be new G series machines (although no: 5 is missing?). As for the last shot, do the same thing mself often! Cheers Gordon
I am gunna say Kopuku
Judging from the b&w photos I would say a dam site - possibly mangatangi. Cartoon charachters on NZ earthmoving gear was comm in the 1960s - both Green & McCahill and Earthmovers Waikato used to mark their machines this way. The G&McCahill DW10 is a fairly rare (for NZ) twin stack 21C series - only three of this particular series were imported. The color shots are interesting - whose line-up of DW21's Macolm ? Roadways ?
DW20--21 photos Hi Guys the black and white photo are of a south island dam twizel i think ,1ST colour pic is fiji next 3 are kopuka plus some more cheers malcolm
Dw 21 The Green & McCahill machines were working at Matahina dam.The D9G was the first D9 they brought its first job was ripping up concrete & railway lines on Quay St,Auckland.
Dw21 Yes i think you are right matahina has the intake and spillway on the right hand side
Trivia question The early DW 21/20's had a D337 engine. What was the unusual design feature of this model. (I think it was unique within the Caterpillar range)
The early DW21's (and DW20's) had a Rootes blower, similar to a Detroit Diesel, As far as I'm aware, the only Caterpillar engines to use this comfiguration.
Enjoyed the pics, very few of todays operators have run cable, I'm glad I had the chance and more glad they are a thing of the past
Yes - Infact, I'm not aware any other common four stroke diesel with a roots blower. Now this leads me into the next question for which I'm not sure about. The specs attached (from the 'Caterpillar World Wide Model Indentification Guide') are a little confusing. The D337T on the earlier models is specked with the Roots Blower and the D377 on the later ones, a Super-Turbo (as per the guide). Was I wrong in assuming all the DW 20/21 models were supercharged and turbocharged? I worked along side one in the early 70's in Canberra and remember the distinctive turbo wine - more so than anything you hear now days. Re Stevensons, Auckland NZ Also recall as a young tacker in the 50's reading the old man's contractor magazines that would often feature impressive line ups of Stevensons scrapers. I think there was some claim back then that they had one of the biggest family owned Caterpillar fleets going around. Ah, memories.
There is a book out which I have a copy of on the history of Stevensons operation at Kopuku in conjunction with Goughs the NZ Cat dealer. Lotsa good pics and history in it. Cheers RDG.
Hi Gordon - just noticed you are from the ACT. That DW 21 that I refereed to in my last post (24) may still be around. It was owned by the Collis family. They ran a very modern fleet of 621's and D8H's in Canberra at the time but had held onto a DW 21 for sentimental reasons and would take it out onto a job to give it a run every now and then. Any thoughts? Cheers Rossco
Thanks RDG - I have a couple of contacts at Goughs to chase up. I bet there are some good 'DW' shots included. Might see if Dad has any old snaps too. Cheers Rossco
Hi Rossco Yes I remember the Colless Bros spread very well, I worked on them during my fitter apprenticeship with Waugh & Josephson back in the early 70's. The last I saw of that DW21 (which was a G model) was in 1975 when Mitchell was being developed. As far as I know, it was ultimately auctioned off when the company folded late 70's early 80's. I don't know where it went. My first experience with DW21's was at the age of 5 when Phillips Constructions had 2 of them working at Russell Hill (around 1960-1). My father was the Clerk of Works on the job and my brother and I used to ride around all day on them sitting on the engine hood, leg either side of the dash, hanging onto the windscreen. We had the chance to drive the beasts on a couple of occassions which scared the life out of the old man. Alf Phillips was from out Griffith way somewhere and I don't know what happened to those machines after they left the job. Wish I could find any of them now because they would fit in really well with the tenets of the Snowy Mountains Historic Equipment Association, of which I am a member. Where is home for you? Cheers Gordon
Reply to Gord229 Post 28 Hi Gordon Thanks for Canberra update. Pity about Collis Bros folding and the DW - You mentioned Waugh and Josephson too. What an iconic AKA, 'Wacks 'n' Jacks' - sadly consigned to memories now too. Anyhow returning to the DW 21 theme, I hope to get down to Sydney soon and catch up with a mate who works in sales at WesTrac - they generally have an idea where the old CAT machines are. I really would like to see one in the flesh again. I'm up in the North Coast, NSW area - not much old gear up this way, just millions of old people............ Anyhow, keep up the good work with the Snowy Mountain Historic Equipment Association - I have family history there too. Cheers Rossco
NICE old pic's!! Hi malcolm, Really like them old black and white pic's! Nice!! /Peter
kopuku That kopuku book is very good reading with alot of exellent photos. They still were using those DW20s in the mid 80s. most of them had been repowered with 1693 truck engines, and did go like a cut cat. Is even a pic in there of a DW20 being pushloaded by a D9L. Bit like the spaceshuttle pushing the ark :drinkup Merv
Better have strong Right Arm and a Big Callous on right Hand for shifting gears
dw21 pics another one in retirement note all mod cons cheers malcolm
Looks like it was, or is an 86E model, with direct electric start. It has the extra dash gauge and the easy to change hydraulic filter assembly. Phil
I had three of those old 21s back in the 60s. they were 69C models, the best money makers I have ever owned. Two of them are still being used by a small contracto in Paducah Ky. I see the every time I go there, sure bring back good memories.
are You sure that was GReen & Mc Cahills Dw21 at Matahina Dam Taylor and Culley Built Matahina Dam, in Reply to Gerald The DW 21 one that i worked wit has unreliable you started in am and weren't always sure you would get full days work out of it. On the other hand i worked with a DW20 and that was supposed to be a dog ( early Model) But that old girl never stopped provided you put one operater on and he operated it properly. A lot of these Machines we see on this forum Bring back pleasant memories, Beggar when you gat over 70 you look at these new machines and drool think how lucky these young fella's are today air con lots less noise Oh well the mind is wandering again
Never saw a Taylor & Culley DW21 at Matahina - we did have S-18's & TS24's there though. Green & McCahill had DW21's but the other contractors were all Euclid equipped (Drydens, NZ Roadmakers, Setons).
That photo is of a DW 20 working on Hamilton Motorway it was original No 17 Fleet Stevensons number
Good morning guys, Looking at these photos of the old and great DW21's, brings back lots of good old memories I did get a chance to run a DW21 with the, I think Electric power shift back then 1962? the operator would only let me make a couple rounds on the not very old DW21 back then. Shifting these old girls was not a problem, I had trouble with the cable units all the time, the DW21's I ran the so called (cable savers) never worked, and the units were always so touchy, especially when you had a big load of gumbo on the old girl. If I had a glass of wine in my hand then I would make a toast to the good old days of the DW21's and the DW20. Mike Nebergall
Let's see if I can remember the procedure for a DW 21. Load in 1st gear and get her in 2nd before pulling away from the pushcat, wind her up in second push in clutch, shift to neutral, let clutch out and yank on the hoist lever to slow things down, push clutch in and shift into 3rd, let clutch out and away you go. Don't two block her and for god sake don't turn with the tailgate forward. If she get's to leaping just touch the trailer brakes and strech her out a little, that is if you have brakes. Been a long time ago but I seem to remember it like it was yesterday. Some of you oldtimers check me out on this and tell me if I got it wrong. Oh, I forgot, make 10 rounds and pee, 10 and pee, etc. If it got down to 5 try to get a pushcat job. Those were the glory days, bought a new 58 Crown Victoria, paid cash for it and never missed the money, never did it since.
I think Waikato Earthmovers also had some IH 295s at Matahina and Mills had a fair bit if IH gear there as well from looking at old magazines and publications.
Matahina photos cheers Malcolm
Yeah those two with the gear lined up were the ones I had in mind, I got the same pics here on a sales brochure folder I got from IH years ago. Cheers RDG.
Yeah that is about right When i first operated DW20 i used to hit my arm just above elbow Wow it went up like balloon but Did not stop me using what we called a winch change , it was Hillarious I used to change gear in my sleep and My wife got shoved in the ribs every time I change gear, But Man o Man the tone of that motor never altered oreven reved down when you had the change own to fine art I used to skite that I could change quickerthan power shift machine, We were toild not to chnge this way because it would snap the Winch drive shaft, well thats not righth is Dw 20 worked for years being gear changed this way no broken shaft actually put one good operator on it and it was a reliable machine OH Where have the good old days gone,
Enjoy reminiscing the 'glory days' - not many operators left now with 'DW' experience. What was the go with turning with the tail gate forward on the 21's - I'm guessing something to do with rope tension. I don't remember it being a problem on the 15's. Also I'm not familiar with the term 'two block'.
Hate to even recall about "two blocking"./ It means when the cable pullys are at their last bit of travel or both blocks are against each other thus no give left in the cable and if you pulled a little hard on the clutch levers it would snap a cable in two causing much embaresment , knashing of teeth and swearing, especially by the mechanic and forman. If you turned with the tailgate fully forward it was in a no travel position and esentially two blocked and the motion of turning required a little slack in the cables so the result was a broken cable. More swearing etc. To restring the cable was an art in itself as they traveled through the goose neck and back to the area ahead of the push block. A lot of it was through tubes or pipes that would fill up with grease and the only way to push a new cable through was to heat it red hot and burn your way in. Needless to say when this happened nobody was happy and to be the youngest guy on the crew and that happened wasn't a fun day. Happyst day of my life was when I got my hands on a AC 260 scraper and it was all hydraulic, you could pull on the levers all you wanted to and it didn't break anything. Took Cat about another 10 years to figure that out.
Good morning Roadswitcher the problem with the croud foreward and the apron all the way up, make a hard right or left turn you would brake a cable. Two block was when you had the scraper all the way up and you wanted to shift using, in any gearon your main trans, you would pull your hoist lever to you and shift if the can was two blocked oops another broken cable. Does that explain it? Didn't DW10's and DW15 have cable two and some were hydrolic? which did you run? Mike Nebergall
Hi crayton, I reckon there were worse machines to thread rope thru, the Allis Chalmers winch operated Scrapers ,( TS 360 the ropes never realy broke like other machines as there so many sheaves to take the strain, However when they did break it was a real Mongrel there were so many blocks( we called them sheaves) but as i sad they rarley broke ropes, Cat was quicker to re rope just as well , was the only thing they had going for them. I have never done real time on hydraulic Scraper apart from few days on Euclid TS 24 that was an experience the steering was mighty worn . it just wanted to wander all over haul road . often chuckle about when traveling down memory lane
3 cables broke, then Good-bye, I ran the same Dw20 for 5 years or so,once you learned how to adjust your cable unit it would squeal a little before you broke, now this in sandy loamy dirt, the Old Gumbo was a different story, on the dw20s it made a difference if you was in high or low range, so in the sticky stuff you would or at least I would try to dump in the same gear and rpm and count, and it was always a good idea to carry a little dirt back with you than break a cable, I learned to up shift without ever letting off the accelerator and power shifting, once you got the hang of it worked great. thats my story and i'm sticking to it!
Thanks Mike/Crayton for feedback. Yes, as I thought the winch radius point changes on a sharp turn thereby tensioning the line and if the tail gate is fully forward.................twang. I never operated DW 15's but spent countless hours as a young tacker watching them dump on a dead end causeway. The procedure was to get as close as practicable to the end/edge of the fill, (this saved the D7 excessive pushing) do a 90 degree lock turn in low gear and only then go for the apron/tailgate. This would leave a 'tipper' style dump for the '7' to work with. I realise now since tailgate was activated while in the turned position, there is was no lock up. Suffice to say, by the time I was old enough to operate, the '6' series had arrived and knowing what had gone before I really appreciated the full hydraulics and powershift. Rossco
Dad got his first scraper job on a DW20, He had been a dozer hand on an earlier job. He was between job and took a labor job on a Boyer and Johnson site. He told me that he was running a saw cutting trees and the job was speced for the stumps to be covered. Dads uncle was running eiter a 20 or 21 on the same site. Dad said the foremand called them out to make and advancement offer for scraper jobs. Everyone got 6 cables then you left the job forgood no saw or anything gone. THey had a night shift and just a few light plants and just dim lights on the tractors. Dad said he broke 2 cables and him and another friend told me that they would go to the cut and the dozer would load them. Then run to the fill, Dad then said he and he and his buddy would raise the apron dump half a load and then return to the cut with a half load. He said they moved little dirt at first without hte light till they got the feel of dumping without breaking the cables. Dad said him and his buddy were the only 2 that made it. After they got throught the training and learned the scraper they got to hauling full loads.
Good mid morning Taylortractornu I just turned 70 in December, I go back 1954, when I ran a 2UD8 for my dad he ran a sand pit for Sully-Miller, my dad joined Local 12 union on a dare in 1942. He was the first union employee for Sully-Miller, his dad was fearous, but Sully-Miller started hireing union labors, teamsters, and operating engineers, so you now how far back my side of the family was Union. In 1962 I joined Local 12. I was a union labor for three years 1959. I worked running D8s, DW21s, DW20s every thing was cable equiptment back then. The old timers in 1962, use to complain about the 600 series scrapers, dozers that Caterpillar was coming out with in 1962, It will never work, that's what they bitched about all the time, going over a steep edge, hydrollics will only let you lower your scraper so much, where cable you can lower the scraper that much more (oops the cable came out of the unit and then you would sit there until the Mechanic would show up and eat another big chunk out of your !#%.) They said it would never work. I being 21 back then I believed them, but now I know the old timers were wrong, I love Hydrolics whether on the scrapers, or dozers the contractors your talking about with your dad it had to be a bad time for him. Back then cable was modern stuff, pull rippers cable, dozers cable, scrapers cable, and even loaders cable. I put 45 years in the union in california and I ran everything, plus I owned 22 of my own rigs, so I'm happy that they got rig of cable and they came out with Hydrollics. Mike Nebergall I was not trying to be critticle, just giving Me as an old timers opennion now.
Two blocking is when you lift something up so high that the sheave blocks hit each other. I think you were not supposed to turn with the ejector all the way forward because it would break the cable.
Quad Dad didnt say it was a bad time at all just a chance to advance and learn and get shed of the chainsaw. He said the killer of the cables was actually the non working cable kick outs. Back then companies worked like this to weed out employees and keep the best ones. Dad eventually worked up pretty good in the company. He also said that the worst part of the DW20/and 21's was when one would kick back out of gear and jam your wrist. Dad actually like the cable blades over the first hydraulics he ran because of the speed that they operated over the B&E blades on some of the IHC machines. When he went to Wright Brothers they had 200 and 260 AC's all hydraulic. I still enjoy gettin on a cable or early hydraulic machine.
A DW21 won't break a cable with the ejector all the way forward and the apron up, when turning under any conditions I've heard of. Must of been a problem on the 6 wheel units. The ejector cable runs up through the hollow pin that the machine turns on. If the apron's cable is cut to the right length, then it will raise to an optimum height with which the side guide can be viewed, when unloading. This guide on the left side of the bowl is a good visual indicator, as the ejector follows it to the end. A few inches from the end of the guide, the alarm bells go off in your head. Cable savers worked well if maintained. Vulnerable if a big chunk of clay or frozen material creamed the master cylinder unit, or the flex line at the right bowl pivot pin got damaged. Best used once or twice a day to make sure it works, if an operator was teaching himself to work without one. The slave portion at the winch had no spring return on it, so there was always an effort initially to reseat it, when it was time to dump again.
Are you saying that it will brake on a DW20? not on a DW21? Ive ran them boath I broke a few on the DW20's But I can't remember if I broke one on a DW21? Mike Nebergall
Mudpile I agree with you, and I ran a 20 for lots of years and never broke a cable turning that I can remember, but seems like I would send Lip and Crowd back the instant you finished dumping, sounds like a short cable, if it broke turning? Been a lot of years!
Good morning A lot of the DW20 and 21's I ran did not have haul back springs so you had to make sure you let the apron down, which was automatic when you got rid of your load of dirt you always let the apron down. I really enjoyed running the older stuff, 14A, 15A, Didn't spend much time on the first D9's, ran a D82U for a while when I was 8 years old for my Dad. I remember on a Sully-Miller job we were going off a at least a 400 foot high steep hill and there was small pebbles and as you came off draging a lot of the operators would drag so heavy that the pebbles would actually cover up about half of the tractors unit, one time the pebbles got into the unit binding it up he couldn't let the scraper down the only he could do was raise the scraper up he panics by the time he got to the bottom he must been doing a good 80 mph with the clutch in hitting bad wash board at the bottom he made it across that OK but just on the other side he said his foot slipperd of the clutch, there was nothing left of the engine or trans or two speed on that DW20 luckley he got a few scratches, all he had to do was two block the scraper and brake the cable. That had to be one hell of a ride! Did you ever brake a cable on the scraper wide open in 5th over and turn the scraper in side out? this might start a good discussion. Mike Nebergall
As a matter of fact I did break a hoist cable and the can didn't completely go thur it's self, the stinger was stright up and dumped the load on me, only thing that saved me was we had put up a frame with crusher screen behind us be cause if you had to pan your scraper at a high speed rocks would hit the ejector and recohet back to you and put a pretty good knot on your head, any coming down out of a barrow pit up on a mesa we would tach out those old 20's and reach over and kick them out of gear, so you was rolling 50 plus, well were loading gravel out of pit that was pretty loose, and we were on a long haul so we were trying to get as big a load as possible, so the gravel was pushed up in front of the sheves on the hoist cross bar, going down of the hill I decided to pick can up to take off safety latches, well when I lifted and released safety latch and let can down a little closer to the haul road, those rocks and gravel cut the hoist cable and that was when the lights went out, I'm real short legged so my seat was up real close to the steering wheel so it smacked my chest down on thewheel and steering knob, craked so ribs and did things to my back that didn't hurt when I was 19, but at 67 it brings back memories, plus it put a little bit of fear in my blood every time I would hear something POP after that. We use to push those ole 20s with HD21 AC & 18A D9, then toward the end of the 20 era the 46A was coming into the picture. Some fond memoriers, and unbeliveable the material those old Dogs moved, These guys now days don't know how easy they have. BACK WHEN NO CABS, NO GOOD SEATS, STICK SHIFTS, CABLE UNITS, NO POLITACAL CORRECTION, NO EQUAL EMPLOYMENT, YOU KEPT A JOB BECAUSE YOU WERE A HAND AND MAD THE CONTRACTOR MONEY!!! AFTER ALL YOU WAS PROABLY MAKEN 5 OR 6 DOLLORS A HR.
Tavn when I joined Local 12 in 1962 the hourly wage $3.26 hour, my son works for Mesa construction in California and the pay scale for a dozer operator is $39.02 hour quite a difference. Me and my son we both ran D11N's for Sukut Constructions, formed another company called Silverado Construction, Me and my son fed 4 988 loaders on the windy ridge section of California the first tollroad in Calkifornia in1996. It was fun to work next to my son both of us running D11's. When I first got into Local 12 I was 22 all the operators us to call me baby or sonny when I retired 4 years ago they us to call me old man or old #&!; I was in the union foor 45 years and I enjoyed working all 45 years. Well I hope I'm not boring you. Mike Nebergall
I never get bored of thinking about the good times! Started in New Mexico in 1962 working on the interstate jobs on 25 & 40, when I went to work was drawing $2.75 hr, I'm semi-retired out of 302, work as a G/Foreman for Granite, with bennys about $50.00 hr, been in Alaska since 1969, Have three younger brothers that started in there 20 and have retired out of 302, a nephew that is working in the trade my son worked his early career for me, since is the G/Foreman for the Anchorage street Maint Dept been there 15 years, My Daughter worked for me as a grade checker for 8 yrs until she decided to have a life, and not work the nomad life of const. But like you say it has been great fun to have worked side by side with my brothers there kids, and my kids, and things have changed. Tommy VanLandingham
Good to work with family, they get to see what one does in a day's work. I don't remember much that could be done with stones lodging in the bowl's lower sheave block. If the operator was careful loading stoney material, and didn't allow it to get to high up in front of the bowl, but that sometimes meant a lighter load. Dropping the bowl a bit would throw the stones out, but often there was no opportunity to do that, until it had been raised, and the damage done. More of a design problem were stones lodging between the apron and the bowl. Get a decent load of gravel and sometimes the apron jammed going down, letting 1/2 the load dribble out. Still the DW was a very efficient machine, lacking the complexity of its replacement.
If you had apron fully open and tail gate fully forwar.d and turned you often broke the tailgate rope you had to start releasing tail gate as soon as the bowl was empty If you were going to turn
For sale, 1975 Cat 627B, 1977 Cat 627B, 1981 Cat 627B, 1984 Cat 627B, 1990 Cat 627E, 1992 Cat 627E
I don't remember it ever being a problem, I guess it was just automatic when you dumped the last of your dirt , down came the apron, and back goes the ejector, My only thought the cable was a few wraps to short?